Caring for Your Introvert (2003)(theatlantic.com)
theatlantic.com
Caring for Your Introvert (2003)
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2003/03/caring-for-your-introvert/2696/
13 comments
I wonder what is the ratio of intro/extroverts among programmers. Something like 90/10 I guess.
According to the analysis I posted to a Myers-Briggs survey that appeared here this summer, about 75% of Hacker News is introverted according to that test. The INTJ and INTP types alone account for 60% of those surveyed (compared to 6.4% in the general population).
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=946249
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=946249
I'd argue that HN is a biased sample even among programmers though.
According to one of my profs, something like 80% of programmers are INTJ in the Meyer's Briggs scheme... the I stands for introvert. I don't know what the other 20% looks like but there are probably a lot of I types.
According to one of my profs, something like 80% of programmers are INTJ in the Meyer's Briggs scheme.
I hope your professor is aware that the Myers-Briggs scheme
http://www.skepdic.com/myersb.html
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0684830914/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0743243560/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Cri...
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/eletters/328/7450/1244
has never been validated.
http://epublications.bond.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article...
http://www.indiana.edu/~jobtalk/HRMWebsite/hrm/articles/deve...
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/eletters/328/7450/1244
Moreover, I would ask for a citation to show that anyone has gathered data from a properly representative sample of "programmers" (how was that group defined?) to show the personality characteristics found in the sample on a validated instrument. Statements of this kind are often based on inadequately small samples and may also suffer from ascertainment bias.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_bias
I hope your professor is aware that the Myers-Briggs scheme
http://www.skepdic.com/myersb.html
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0684830914/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0743243560/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Cri...
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/eletters/328/7450/1244
has never been validated.
http://epublications.bond.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article...
http://www.indiana.edu/~jobtalk/HRMWebsite/hrm/articles/deve...
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/eletters/328/7450/1244
Moreover, I would ask for a citation to show that anyone has gathered data from a properly representative sample of "programmers" (how was that group defined?) to show the personality characteristics found in the sample on a validated instrument. Statements of this kind are often based on inadequately small samples and may also suffer from ascertainment bias.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_bias
a question about your sentence structure.
why did you write "i wonder what is ..." instead of "i wonder what ... is."
did you mean to write "i wonder: what is..."?
where are you from? the structure you used common there?
why did you write "i wonder what is ..." instead of "i wonder what ... is."
did you mean to write "i wonder: what is..."?
where are you from? the structure you used common there?
From Finland. Non-native English speaker as one can guess. Thanks for correcting me. We have crazy grammar rules in Finland, such as starting sentences with capitals.
i'm just curious because i heard the exact same structure used by a native speaker from the US, and on other occasions from other possibly native speakers. i speak english as a second language and don't know what to think.
as to my lack of caps... that's lazyness. i can use them, but i only do when i foresee getting judged by people i don't need judging from (professional contexts).
as to my lack of caps... that's lazyness. i can use them, but i only do when i foresee getting judged by people i don't need judging from (professional contexts).
I used to date this girl who would tell me I was too serious... It was hard because I didn't have the words at the time to explain myself... Now I do.
Just... Thank you for sharing this.
Just... Thank you for sharing this.
I think this goes beyond just being introverted. I'd highly recommend picking up "please understand me" by David Keirsey. It's a pretty good breakdown of the different personality type and the axes on which personality is measured.
what, girls thinking you are 'too serious' goes beyond being introverted? It seems like a pretty normal experience to me.
I wasn't implying that it was abnormal. I was just saying that it's an orthogonal issue. More specifically, it's a thinking vs feeling issue rather than an introversion vs extraversion issue:
http://www.care2.com/greenliving/thinking-vs-feeling-which-i...
http://www.care2.com/greenliving/thinking-vs-feeling-which-i...
[deleted]
But would anyone show up at the "Introverts' Rights movement" ?
Or would we just stay home? (lol!)
Or would we just stay home? (lol!)
Stay at Home Introverts' Rights Movement, SHIRM.
Hey if I can participate at home and don't have to talk to people I'm in!
And you know what SHIRM means in hindi? - Shyness
It seems to be English slang word too: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shirm
Excellent article. Hits the right note.
One thing for me I guess would be phone calls, pretty much don't like phone calls unless it's from a small select group of people or is something that would take many messages to resolve. Which kind of puts me at odds with those who like to call no matter what over messaging.
It's just those formalities of phone call that put me off, unless your close to a person focusing just on the question you have can come off as rude.
It's just those formalities of phone call that put me off, unless your close to a person focusing just on the question you have can come off as rude.
If I feel extra contact with someone is inevitable, I usually try to request that the person email me some helpful info that I need. If they say they'll "just call," I point out that [list of people] might find it useful, and joke that I can't forward them a phone conversation we've had. Some people still insist on calling, and I let them.
This article gave me the wrong impression that introverts are geniuses.
They are not, I know, I'm an introvert.
Of course a lot a people here are going to say that this article rocks, because I guess many people on HN are introverts.
I see no proof, no figure, no statistics on this article, at first I thought it was some blog post but it seems to be a real article in an actual newspaper. That's a shame.
They are not, I know, I'm an introvert.
Of course a lot a people here are going to say that this article rocks, because I guess many people on HN are introverts.
I see no proof, no figure, no statistics on this article, at first I thought it was some blog post but it seems to be a real article in an actual newspaper. That's a shame.
I love how this article is 7 years old and it keeps getting reposed time & again. Classic stuff.
I'm not sure I buy the binary approach to this, nor his experience with "extroverts."
One, I'm not really one or the other; 23andme quizzes claims I'm extroverted, Meyer Briggs claims I'm introverted. I actually went around and asked people in my high school what they thought I was, and all the teachers thought I was an extrovert and all the students thought I was an introvert. Apparently it's situational.
And like the author, I often get tired of talking to people. But usually it's a result of conversing with someone who is extremely talkative. Sure, those people don't seem to get that you are not into talking... but not because they're extroverts. It's because they're socially disabled. Only someone who can't read facial cues will keep chattering away at you. Most people can see I'm getting weary and will stop.
I think this guy met one to many people who basically can't tell that you're just not interested in speaking with them, and confused them with "extroverts."
One, I'm not really one or the other; 23andme quizzes claims I'm extroverted, Meyer Briggs claims I'm introverted. I actually went around and asked people in my high school what they thought I was, and all the teachers thought I was an extrovert and all the students thought I was an introvert. Apparently it's situational.
And like the author, I often get tired of talking to people. But usually it's a result of conversing with someone who is extremely talkative. Sure, those people don't seem to get that you are not into talking... but not because they're extroverts. It's because they're socially disabled. Only someone who can't read facial cues will keep chattering away at you. Most people can see I'm getting weary and will stop.
I think this guy met one to many people who basically can't tell that you're just not interested in speaking with them, and confused them with "extroverts."
Introversion and extraversion are preferences, not skills. People who are introverted can do all the things that an extravert can, they just don't want to.
It's also possible to develop one even though your preference is for another. You may just be a well-rounded person in terms of social skills.
To make a long story short, phrasing things in terms of a strict dichotomy is an oversimplification, but I think it's one that makes this author's point clearer. It's difficult to discuss all of the ins and outs without making a piece like this overly complex.
It's also possible to develop one even though your preference is for another. You may just be a well-rounded person in terms of social skills.
To make a long story short, phrasing things in terms of a strict dichotomy is an oversimplification, but I think it's one that makes this author's point clearer. It's difficult to discuss all of the ins and outs without making a piece like this overly complex.
they aren't preferences either, because preferences can change easily.
Don't worry, You are normal.
I am an introvert, who loves me time, but also would love to be able to socialize more without feeling like I am forcing myself to be more outgoing. I wish it was more natural.
I am an introvert, who loves me time, but also would love to be able to socialize more without feeling like I am forcing myself to be more outgoing. I wish it was more natural.
[deleted]
groans...yet another special group.
If by "special" you mean "different", you're correct.
I don't get tired by being with people so much as ... feel as if I've lost grounding - and most of my friends say that I'm extroverted and friendly and nice to be around with. So I don't know. After a couple of days of going out with friends I tend to want to come home because I feel too many things are going on, and I can't think.
Does that make sense? Am I the only one who feels this?
Does that make sense? Am I the only one who feels this?
You sound like an introvert to me. Introverts are more sensitive than other people, so it definitely can lead to sensory overload. For example, I believe that introverts are affected more by caffeine.
Also, listen to your friends, but take them with a grain of salt. The only person that can correctly judge your personality is you.
Also, listen to your friends, but take them with a grain of salt. The only person that can correctly judge your personality is you.
Everyone can be an extrovert on the Internet
Being an ENTJ (not an introvert expert by any means) I wonder if those who are more introverted would be more comfortable, and thus perform better, with walls (tall private cubicles) vs. being in a bullpen style development environment that is favored by so many startups?
Based on the assumption that a lot of developers are INTJ in the Meyer's Briggs.
Any input on this guys?
Based on the assumption that a lot of developers are INTJ in the Meyer's Briggs.
Any input on this guys?
Walls are totally not about introvert/extrovert, it's about the fact that if you get interrupted for 30 seconds, it can cost 15 minutes of productivity.
Walls make it more of an effort for someone to interrupt you.
Walls make it more of an effort for someone to interrupt you.
It's an interesting premise, but I think I disagree with it. I work at a ~300 person web development/engineering company, in exactly the kind of low-walled "bullpen" situation you describe - a large room with ~60 developers, all of whom can be seen if you stand up almost anywhere in the room.
Being a bit of an introvert myself, I was a bit taken aback at first. But after nearly a year there, I think it's been a good influence on my working habits - introverts tend to be the kind of people who send e-mails to their coworkers to explain a problem or question, even if they sit close by, rather than talking to them directly. However, the open layout encourages direct collaboration and communication. With just a glance, I can see that the lead developer is at his desk and not speaking with anyone, which means I'm not likely to interrupt him in the middle of something important if I drop by.
Being a bit of an introvert myself, I was a bit taken aback at first. But after nearly a year there, I think it's been a good influence on my working habits - introverts tend to be the kind of people who send e-mails to their coworkers to explain a problem or question, even if they sit close by, rather than talking to them directly. However, the open layout encourages direct collaboration and communication. With just a glance, I can see that the lead developer is at his desk and not speaking with anyone, which means I'm not likely to interrupt him in the middle of something important if I drop by.
Joel Spolsky on why developers need their own offices:
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FieldGuidetoDeveloper...
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FieldGuidetoDeveloper...
You'll find a lot of How To Treat Your Developers/Geeks/Hackers articles posted here, and one of the common points is private offices (not 'tall cubicles').
I don't know if it's really because that makes people feel important; it's usually phrased in terms of distraction and breaking flow.
I don't know if it's really because that makes people feel important; it's usually phrased in terms of distraction and breaking flow.