Notes for the New Year(blog.ycombinator.com)
blog.ycombinator.com
Notes for the New Year
https://blog.ycombinator.com/notes-for-the-new-year/
24 comments
Sometimes I feel that what holds me back from asking is a desire to not be rejected, or not to look silly for asking.
At the same time, I figure the worst that'd happen is that they say no. That's where grit comes in handy.
If you experience a lot of denial/rejection anxiety, rejection therapy tends to help as you acclimate to the feeling. Basically, do something where you'd get rejected a lot. Afterwards, if relevant, think about factors that could have led to the denial, and what could be done to mitigate them. This trains a more positive mindset in reaction to rejection.
Alternatively, you could ask while internally expecting the denial. Plan around being denied. Having that fallback helps retain confidence, instead of letting 'what could go wrong' overly bother you. With this expectation, asking for what you want makes successes pleasant surprises!
At the same time, I figure the worst that'd happen is that they say no. That's where grit comes in handy.
If you experience a lot of denial/rejection anxiety, rejection therapy tends to help as you acclimate to the feeling. Basically, do something where you'd get rejected a lot. Afterwards, if relevant, think about factors that could have led to the denial, and what could be done to mitigate them. This trains a more positive mindset in reaction to rejection.
Alternatively, you could ask while internally expecting the denial. Plan around being denied. Having that fallback helps retain confidence, instead of letting 'what could go wrong' overly bother you. With this expectation, asking for what you want makes successes pleasant surprises!
How long did it take you to actually know what you want? I'm neary 45. On one hand I want to work 3 days a week, on the other I want cash. What do I ask for? WHAT DO I ASK FOR!
What is it that you want to do with the other 4 days a week?
I think the best way to pick what you want to do is to find
the intersection of what you’re good at, what you enjoy,
what the world needs, and what the world values.
Don't be afraid to look for people who need help and about whom you know nothing. Empathy will take you the rest of the way. When we started Seneca Systems, we knew nothing about local government, but no person is too far away for you to ask questions and understand what they need.
In the same vein, don't be afraid to defer your startup dreams for 3, 5, 7 years while you develop true specialization in an exciting field. I think too many young people (myself included) just want to start a startup to be a startup person, while I think some of the great, sustainable startups that can truly change the world demand years of patience, discipline, and discovery even before you start the prototype. ...And to be on the cusp of a startup like that has to be the greatest feeling in the world.
totally agree with this!
The super successful people I know spent a very long time pursuing their ideas, way past when most people would have given up.
Not to take away from his advice on giving up but is there survivorship bias in this statement? How many people persist for just as long (or longer!) and still fail?
I think it might be more useful to look at success/fail rates for various levels of persistence.
Not to take away from his advice on giving up but is there survivorship bias in this statement? How many people persist for just as long (or longer!) and still fail?
I think it might be more useful to look at success/fail rates for various levels of persistence.
Great point. Probably more accurate to say "not giving up is a necessary, but not sufficient condition, for success."
[deleted]
I empathize with the "find your tribe" concept, but am deeply disappointed by how sama has framed it here.
> You want to find your tribe – the types of people like you that you can imagine working with for the rest of your career. Within that, you want to find a small group of people whom you trust, and whose opinions you really respect. [emphasis mine]
There are a handful of people in the world who are "like me", with whom I have any significant intersection of history, interests or identities. And though I am able to include others in my circle by celebrating our differences, this mentality (and advice) encourages them to exclude me from theirs.
I really wish the commonly accepted advice when forming one's "tribe" would be to seek out others to connect with who are different from you, but who you share enough with to forge a bond. It's not just better advice to create a healthy whole, it's idiosyncratically more interesting (and professionally more profitable) to have a variety of friends and colleagues with different histories, biases and networks of their own.
> You want to find your tribe – the types of people like you that you can imagine working with for the rest of your career. Within that, you want to find a small group of people whom you trust, and whose opinions you really respect. [emphasis mine]
There are a handful of people in the world who are "like me", with whom I have any significant intersection of history, interests or identities. And though I am able to include others in my circle by celebrating our differences, this mentality (and advice) encourages them to exclude me from theirs.
I really wish the commonly accepted advice when forming one's "tribe" would be to seek out others to connect with who are different from you, but who you share enough with to forge a bond. It's not just better advice to create a healthy whole, it's idiosyncratically more interesting (and professionally more profitable) to have a variety of friends and colleagues with different histories, biases and networks of their own.
I think you can interpret "like you" in a few different ways. Someone can be "like you" if they share common values, even if they have completely different background, interests, personalities, etc.
I don't want to speak for him, but I believe Sam's point is that those are the people that you forge the strongest bond with.
I don't want to speak for him, but I believe Sam's point is that those are the people that you forge the strongest bond with.
I agree that's a better interpretation, but this is a post for an audience to whom that's not necessarily the most obvious way to read it.
I'd hypothesize that diversity is both among the best qualities to have in one's tribe and something which requires the most intentional approach to assemble. That's well worth pointing out, and probably a more helpful reminder than "make some friends".
I'd hypothesize that diversity is both among the best qualities to have in one's tribe and something which requires the most intentional approach to assemble. That's well worth pointing out, and probably a more helpful reminder than "make some friends".
I don't see much of a gap between "trust and respect" and "forge a bond". Are you sure you disagree?
It's the "people like you" which I disagree with, and the presumption that you should choose those who you trust and respect from that group.
That's probably not what Sama means, but it's what is technically advised and how it's practically enacted. Surrounding yourself with similar/aligned people is just positive spin on excluding those who are different.
I believe strongly in creating one's tribe with intent, and choose it to maximize the richness of one's personal and professional life. That takes a lot more work than settling down with one's classmates & colleagues, but it's ultimately far more fulfilling (and holistically healthy for the system).
That's probably not what Sama means, but it's what is technically advised and how it's practically enacted. Surrounding yourself with similar/aligned people is just positive spin on excluding those who are different.
I believe strongly in creating one's tribe with intent, and choose it to maximize the richness of one's personal and professional life. That takes a lot more work than settling down with one's classmates & colleagues, but it's ultimately far more fulfilling (and holistically healthy for the system).
I find it hard to imagine Sam disagreeing with you on this.
I doubt we disagree as well.
But (as said in OP) I am disappointed in how he's framed it in this particular think piece. The casual reader without out-of-context knowledge is unlikely to pick up on the nuance, and he's missed a golden opportunity to preach a better gospel.
But (as said in OP) I am disappointed in how he's framed it in this particular think piece. The casual reader without out-of-context knowledge is unlikely to pick up on the nuance, and he's missed a golden opportunity to preach a better gospel.
> Be a doer, not a talker – history belongs to the doers.
Actually, History belongs to no one. How many of the most exceptional individuals or entities from 100 years ago does the average person in the world appreciate or even know about? Very very very few. Success (and life) is so incredibly fleeting.
Now think 200 years? 1000 years?
Actually, History belongs to no one. How many of the most exceptional individuals or entities from 100 years ago does the average person in the world appreciate or even know about? Very very very few. Success (and life) is so incredibly fleeting.
Now think 200 years? 1000 years?
I think in 200-1000 years we'll have a completely different baseline of the feeling and capability to remember something. So I imagine of the trillions of humans to eventually be born, someone's going to stumble across all of these terrible posts I've made and have a laugh.
Sam Altman sold a company before most people enter professional life, so while I agree with him that equity and ownership is the best way to extreme wealth, I think he should probably acknowledge the TONS of people making great money who are quite wealthy on a salary basis as well. Discounting that as a "young man's misunderstanding" seems... weird.
Consist the number of people making "great money" but having little or no actual wealth (that only sounds contradictory initially).
The ones who become wealthy through salary typically do that by converting a lot of "excess" salary into equity in something, the earlier the better.
The ones who become wealthy through salary typically do that by converting a lot of "excess" salary into equity in something, the earlier the better.
Well it depends what you mean by "TONS" of people, or "great money", but I don't think you're right. Most people on a salary don't make enough money to be considered rich, IMO.
The 60,000 employees at Google seem to be making "great money". That seems like several Tons.
[deleted]
"I think the best way to pick what you want to do is to find the intersection of what you’re good at, what you enjoy, what the world needs, and what the world values."
Sam, how do you figure out "what the world needs"? As you point out, this is often very different from "what the world values" (see: Coca-Cola).
Sam, how do you figure out "what the world needs"? As you point out, this is often very different from "what the world values" (see: Coca-Cola).
Sam finishes by saying that: "the most interesting and successful people I know seem to all have strong ideas about what the future will look like."
If you have your own idea of the world and what the future will look like you will most probably have some ideas on what the world will need to get there.
If you have your own idea of the world and what the future will look like you will most probably have some ideas on what the world will need to get there.
> what the world needs
For HN its really 1) What are investors willing to contribute to or 2) What are customers willing to pay for.
For HN its really 1) What are investors willing to contribute to or 2) What are customers willing to pay for.
You're answering the question of "what the world values" not "what the world needs".
If you've ever enjoyed an ice cold Coca-Cola on a hot summer day, you'd know the world needs refreshment.
> Take more risks... If you do fail or end up in a crisis, you’ll probably be OK.
If you ever wanted a pithy description of what separates the lives of the 1% from the lives of the rest, now you have one.
If you ever wanted a pithy description of what separates the lives of the 1% from the lives of the rest, now you have one.
It's a little cringe-worthy coming from someone like him. Sam sold a company before ever having to work a job to support himself, AFAIK.
...or it could be a description of something this part of the world needs: better safety nets that encourage more people to take risks without worrying too much about ending up in crisis.
Great set of notes. As usual, I love Sam Altman's very terse, to-the-point writing style.
This is a great list of things I think anyone should take to heart in terms of how to structure their lives (if you're into that kind of thing) - invest in yourself, work on things that are big opportunities, etc.
This is a great list of things I think anyone should take to heart in terms of how to structure their lives (if you're into that kind of thing) - invest in yourself, work on things that are big opportunities, etc.
I agree with a lot of what Sam has to say, but from my own experience quitting my job, starting a bootstrapped venture, working on something unsexy, and going through a multitude of challenges in the past year has taught me to ignore all "advice" and think critically for yourself. You will not remember most of what any of the advice-givers tell you, and it won't fit like a glove on you either but the conclusions and answers you arrive at yourself will make a lot more sense and work out better in the long run.
> the right thing ... will likely take a long time and you’ll face a lot of criticism.
Is this true, empirically, for the most successful companies? Of the "Frightful 5" (Amazon, Facebook, Google, Apple, and Microsoft), only Microsoft seems to have had an extended period of only modest success before rocketing into the stratosphere. The others did so in just a couple of years.
Is this true, empirically, for the most successful companies? Of the "Frightful 5" (Amazon, Facebook, Google, Apple, and Microsoft), only Microsoft seems to have had an extended period of only modest success before rocketing into the stratosphere. The others did so in just a couple of years.
That depends on how you define the beginning of the company. For example, Zuckerberg had built quite a few different "social" websites before building Thefacebook. Jobs and Woz had been building circuit boards and other electronic devices for a couple years before they built the Apple I.
"You should probably be willing to move."
Willing and able are two different things. Sadly, all the amazing technology hasn't really changed the need in a lot of people's minds to be physically close. We'll see if VR succeeds where phones, e-mail, chat, and video conferencing have failed.
Willing and able are two different things. Sadly, all the amazing technology hasn't really changed the need in a lot of people's minds to be physically close. We'll see if VR succeeds where phones, e-mail, chat, and video conferencing have failed.
The greatest issue I have when working, or even just talking with people in different places is not technological, but timezones.
I don't want to be catching up with my family in Europe at my 3am in the morning. Or working a hard problem at my 9pm to be in touch with people in India.
I think if you are in the same timezone good video conferencing works really well.
I don't want to be catching up with my family in Europe at my 3am in the morning. Or working a hard problem at my 9pm to be in touch with people in India.
I think if you are in the same timezone good video conferencing works really well.
Timezone are pretty awful for across the ocean work, but within most countries is pretty minimal. An hour or two is really a low bar objection to telecommuting.
Totally agree. I find dedicated video conferencing equipment works really well for this case.
Although I guess I work in the industry so get a lot of good equipment.
Although I guess I work in the industry so get a lot of good equipment.
> I think the best way to pick what you want to do is to find [...] what the world values.
> Don’t chase other people’s ideas of what matters.
Er...
> Don’t chase other people’s ideas of what matters.
Er...
I believe you're suggesting a contradiction here, but I think the juxtaposition is actually quite insightful if we consider the differences between these two things!
What the world values ought to be a mostly objective question, though one that isn't easy to answer. An accurate measure of what the world values probably implies success, even. Our values are expressed by the totality of our collective actions, and are certainly not guaranteed to be consistent with what we say. The obvious (but certainly not perfect) proxy for what we value is what we choose when there are costs involved.
But other people's ideas of what matters strikes me as a completely different thing. These are constructs and abstractions that we use to help model our own individual decision making, and unfortunately we're often all-too-eager to share these with others even when they're by no means universal. If I tell you that "what matters is security and predictability" or "what matters is family" or "what matters is the pursuit of creativity and novelty", all I'm really saying is that I have this axiom that floats around in my head with a tenuous connection to reality even in the context of my own life but is clearly meaningless relative to yours! These things are not to be chased, because they’re not real.
What the world values ought to be a mostly objective question, though one that isn't easy to answer. An accurate measure of what the world values probably implies success, even. Our values are expressed by the totality of our collective actions, and are certainly not guaranteed to be consistent with what we say. The obvious (but certainly not perfect) proxy for what we value is what we choose when there are costs involved.
But other people's ideas of what matters strikes me as a completely different thing. These are constructs and abstractions that we use to help model our own individual decision making, and unfortunately we're often all-too-eager to share these with others even when they're by no means universal. If I tell you that "what matters is security and predictability" or "what matters is family" or "what matters is the pursuit of creativity and novelty", all I'm really saying is that I have this axiom that floats around in my head with a tenuous connection to reality even in the context of my own life but is clearly meaningless relative to yours! These things are not to be chased, because they’re not real.
I don't care about becoming very wealthy. The odds of success are too low. Sam ignores the hard question, which is what is the likelihood that you will spend many years of your life on a "hard problem" (or multiple problems) that end fruitlessly? I suspect it is quite high, and the failures are underreported. I've decided to just settle for a regular five-figures job that lets me afford my hobbies, which I find much more invigorating than wealth or coding. I have a side-project, which is numerical weather prediction in mountainous regions (something unlikely to be highly profitable), but it's a tinkering project that I enjoy even if it doesn't work out.
That's a false dichotomy. Just because something doesn't end the way you would prefer doesn't mean that it ends fruitlessly. It is possible to enjoy and gain from the work even if the project or company isn't ultimately a success. Most of the projects that I've worked on never went anywhere, but that doesn't mean I didn't still enjoy myself or learn something valuable.
In '99 I left a relatively standard and easy 9 to 5 type job at Intel to join a startup. My assumption was that the startup would fail, because that's generally what startups do, but it gave me the opportunity to work on systems that I found interesting (specifically Linux, which was still kind of fringe back then) and learn from very smart co-workers. I spent more time at work, but I did so because I was enjoying myself and learning a lot. Personally, I'd much rather spend 12 hours doing something I love than 8 hours doing something I hate.
Just because you are aiming for the stars doesn't mean you can't still enjoy the journey. For me, it's more fun to fail at something audacious then succeed at something mundane. Of course others are free to feel differently, and I would never claim that this is the right decision for everyone.
In '99 I left a relatively standard and easy 9 to 5 type job at Intel to join a startup. My assumption was that the startup would fail, because that's generally what startups do, but it gave me the opportunity to work on systems that I found interesting (specifically Linux, which was still kind of fringe back then) and learn from very smart co-workers. I spent more time at work, but I did so because I was enjoying myself and learning a lot. Personally, I'd much rather spend 12 hours doing something I love than 8 hours doing something I hate.
Just because you are aiming for the stars doesn't mean you can't still enjoy the journey. For me, it's more fun to fail at something audacious then succeed at something mundane. Of course others are free to feel differently, and I would never claim that this is the right decision for everyone.
There's an argument to be made that society is better off with a very large population of relatively high achieving, but generally well balanced people, as opposed to a small elite of overachieving workaholics and those clamoring to gain access to that club.
I bet you could mix that with information on climate to find rare mushrooms and the like. Might add some excitement.
I'm actually a hobbyist mushroom forager. I think mushroom growth is too dependent on micro-environments, like proximity to a certain tree and receiving the right amount of shade, to be predicted by weather. I could be wrong though.
[deleted]
This plays to the SV mentality, which is ok for those into that mindset. Personally, I feel like it promotes the life-objective point of view. Work, be successful, die.
Loosely, from a talk i heard ages ago - the universe has no purpose. No goal or objective. It just is. Similarly, a dance or a song. It's purpose is not to end, but rather the thing itself, in it's entirety. If the objective was the finish, you'd start a dance where it ends, and be done with it.
Life is a little like that - ALL of it, every moment, is like a song. Each note is like a day, stanza like a year. Have fun, always.
...or, spend your best years slaving away for a (maybe) payoff at 40, 50 or 60, move into a retirement home and wait for death.
I love writing code, but i love other stuff that takes me away from code for months on end too. The SV thing scares the h*ll out of me. The obsession over the next big thing, being right, getting paid, being a name... I get depressed just thinking about it all.
Loosely, from a talk i heard ages ago - the universe has no purpose. No goal or objective. It just is. Similarly, a dance or a song. It's purpose is not to end, but rather the thing itself, in it's entirety. If the objective was the finish, you'd start a dance where it ends, and be done with it.
Life is a little like that - ALL of it, every moment, is like a song. Each note is like a day, stanza like a year. Have fun, always.
...or, spend your best years slaving away for a (maybe) payoff at 40, 50 or 60, move into a retirement home and wait for death.
I love writing code, but i love other stuff that takes me away from code for months on end too. The SV thing scares the h*ll out of me. The obsession over the next big thing, being right, getting paid, being a name... I get depressed just thinking about it all.
It's a little perverse how "successful" means "extremely wealthy" around these parts. It could also mean just having happy relationships and basic material needs met. In fact I suspect that is a far more common definition in the world.
A really eye opening experience was hanging out with my hispanic girlfriend's family. They were just content. I'd tell them about personal finance tricks, like credit card churning or buying things in bulk, and they'd blow me off. They'd rather save by putting spare change into a jar, or putting in extra hours, which did work for them. They got to go on vacations, buy clothes they liked. It was like the pain that I felt with wasting money didn't happen for them, they just took it all in stride. They weren't reaching for anything, and they seemed much happier and even more personally secure and present than most tech people I've met.
A really eye opening experience was hanging out with my hispanic girlfriend's family. They were just content. I'd tell them about personal finance tricks, like credit card churning or buying things in bulk, and they'd blow me off. They'd rather save by putting spare change into a jar, or putting in extra hours, which did work for them. They got to go on vacations, buy clothes they liked. It was like the pain that I felt with wasting money didn't happen for them, they just took it all in stride. They weren't reaching for anything, and they seemed much happier and even more personally secure and present than most tech people I've met.
I think this confuses symptoms and causes of moderate wealth.
When you're moderately wealthy, you can churn cards without the temptation to use them for things that you really can't afford. If you and your family are living month-to-month, it is nearly impossible to restrain yourself when you see how much credit is available.
Similarly, if you're from a large, close family where everyone lives month-to-month, you might be perceived as greedy if you start to accumulate wealth instead of sharing with your family. For some reason it is more forgivable to imperil yourself by borrowing money to buy an expensive car than it is to let money pile up in your savings account.
If you're from a family where there is a culture of long-term financial thinking, this stuff is pretty easy. If you aren't, it isn't. It is partly that you haven't learned habits of financial planning, but also that there are cultural forces that prevent it.
When you're moderately wealthy, you can churn cards without the temptation to use them for things that you really can't afford. If you and your family are living month-to-month, it is nearly impossible to restrain yourself when you see how much credit is available.
Similarly, if you're from a large, close family where everyone lives month-to-month, you might be perceived as greedy if you start to accumulate wealth instead of sharing with your family. For some reason it is more forgivable to imperil yourself by borrowing money to buy an expensive car than it is to let money pile up in your savings account.
If you're from a family where there is a culture of long-term financial thinking, this stuff is pretty easy. If you aren't, it isn't. It is partly that you haven't learned habits of financial planning, but also that there are cultural forces that prevent it.
The only reason you would ever need to churn cards is if you are buying things you can't afford. Pay the cards off and burn them. You dont need them, you sure dont need to waste your time juggling them - playing thier game.
You may not need to, but it can be worthwhile. You can get free flights and cash back on many cards. The normal reward rates are very low, but some cards have sign up bonuses that are worth a few hundred dollars if you spend a certain amount in the first few months. Many cards will keep giving you the sign up bonuses if you cancel and re-sign every couple of years. For me, the few hundred dollars is worth the trouble of churning the cards.
Yeah I can relate. If I'd saved all my money instead of kitesurfing off a chartered yacht in the Caribbean, heli-skiing in Chamonix or building a 1:10 scale, radio-controlled Mercedes Benz LPS1418 replica (amongst herds of other stuff) I suspect I'd have been able to retire at 40 (I'm 46). And yet even so I lead a very, VERY privileged life. And lifestyle.
> Personally, I feel like it promotes the life-objective point of view. Work, be successful, die.
What about: learn and work, solve some important problems for people around you or make their lives somehow better, die? I much prefer this outlook to both "life-objective point of view" you mentioned and the IMO nihilistic "enjoy every moment", "focus on family and relationships" lifestyle.
What about: learn and work, solve some important problems for people around you or make their lives somehow better, die? I much prefer this outlook to both "life-objective point of view" you mentioned and the IMO nihilistic "enjoy every moment", "focus on family and relationships" lifestyle.
>I much prefer this outlook to both "life-objective point of view" you mentioned and the IMO nihilistic "enjoy every moment", "focus on family and relationships" lifestyle.
This seems self-contradictory. If all the world's problems were solved, what would you do? That's what's properly valuable. If you don't do some of that before you die, how did you live a good life? You have to mix instrumental tasks and actually good things to do.
This seems self-contradictory. If all the world's problems were solved, what would you do? That's what's properly valuable. If you don't do some of that before you die, how did you live a good life? You have to mix instrumental tasks and actually good things to do.
>...or, spend your best years slaving away for a (maybe) payoff at 40, 50 or 60, move into a retirement home and wait for death.
This sounds like somebody who doesn't enjoy working.
I love the idea that life is a song and you should dance around all day enjoying every moment, but what about if accomplishing things, making things, doing things, is what brings you that enjoyment.
If you song is to make things, you should find some friends and make things together! It will hardly seem like work at all.
This sounds like somebody who doesn't enjoy working.
I love the idea that life is a song and you should dance around all day enjoying every moment, but what about if accomplishing things, making things, doing things, is what brings you that enjoyment.
If you song is to make things, you should find some friends and make things together! It will hardly seem like work at all.
You want to find your tribe – the types of people like you that you can imagine working with for the rest of your career. Within that, you want to find a small group of people whom you trust, and whose opinions you really respect.
This is a common belief that is worth challenging.
I think we overvalue our "tribe", and often allow false intuition about who our tribe is mislead us into limiting opportunities for personal and professional growth.
I started thinking this a couple dozen years ago, when I was first getting involved in security and being repelled by the cliques of insiders who passed around secret security knowledge. Anyone familiar with the underground of the time knows how this worked with exploit scripts and warez, but I think fewer people realize that it's also the way that the defenders worked as well: there were secret security lists, like Core, whose members got to learn about exploits long before normal people did.
But then Bugtraq happened, and along with it the modern full-disclosure movement, and if you're a vulnerability researcher you'd be embarrassed to have put your chips down on things like the secret Core list.
The same pattern repeats over and over in our industry. The IETF, for instance, has historically functioned like a giant web of cliques. Almost anything the IETF came up with from '95 to '10 is hamstrung by IETF group dynamics and its autonomic responses to outsider opinion. If you wonder why our addresses are still 32 bits wide and our traffic is still unencrypted, that's worth considering.
My convictions about this got even firmer after I learned to hire, at a company I started called Matasano. Like every other company, we started out hiring from within our tribe. But we worked in software security, and our tribe got expensive faster than we could pay them (good for them!). We did a couple of things that resulted, ultimately, in us discarding resumes and most of interviewing altogether, and managed to drastically grow our team --- to the point where I'm pretty confident we had simply and permanently solved our hiring problem --- by looking past our "tribe".
I understand the point Altman is making here, that you start your career out with a tiny and poorly-defined network, and that it's good to find people you can rely on. I think that too! But I think it's also worth being wary of your immediate personal network, because the universe works pretty hard to keep you connected to those people, even when limiting yourself to those connections isn't really in your best interests.
People are generally pretty awesome once you get to know them. Rather than looking for a couple people to work with for your whole career, I'd urge you to instead look for sets of principles you might share with a much larger number of people, and to think about how you might identify those shared principles, in order to maximize the number of people you'll work with effectively throughout your career.
I'm in contracts hell this week and not articulating things well, but my "be careful about your tribe" thing is one of my bigger, more important beliefs, so I hope I'm somewhere in the vicinity of communicating it.
This is a common belief that is worth challenging.
I think we overvalue our "tribe", and often allow false intuition about who our tribe is mislead us into limiting opportunities for personal and professional growth.
I started thinking this a couple dozen years ago, when I was first getting involved in security and being repelled by the cliques of insiders who passed around secret security knowledge. Anyone familiar with the underground of the time knows how this worked with exploit scripts and warez, but I think fewer people realize that it's also the way that the defenders worked as well: there were secret security lists, like Core, whose members got to learn about exploits long before normal people did.
But then Bugtraq happened, and along with it the modern full-disclosure movement, and if you're a vulnerability researcher you'd be embarrassed to have put your chips down on things like the secret Core list.
The same pattern repeats over and over in our industry. The IETF, for instance, has historically functioned like a giant web of cliques. Almost anything the IETF came up with from '95 to '10 is hamstrung by IETF group dynamics and its autonomic responses to outsider opinion. If you wonder why our addresses are still 32 bits wide and our traffic is still unencrypted, that's worth considering.
My convictions about this got even firmer after I learned to hire, at a company I started called Matasano. Like every other company, we started out hiring from within our tribe. But we worked in software security, and our tribe got expensive faster than we could pay them (good for them!). We did a couple of things that resulted, ultimately, in us discarding resumes and most of interviewing altogether, and managed to drastically grow our team --- to the point where I'm pretty confident we had simply and permanently solved our hiring problem --- by looking past our "tribe".
I understand the point Altman is making here, that you start your career out with a tiny and poorly-defined network, and that it's good to find people you can rely on. I think that too! But I think it's also worth being wary of your immediate personal network, because the universe works pretty hard to keep you connected to those people, even when limiting yourself to those connections isn't really in your best interests.
People are generally pretty awesome once you get to know them. Rather than looking for a couple people to work with for your whole career, I'd urge you to instead look for sets of principles you might share with a much larger number of people, and to think about how you might identify those shared principles, in order to maximize the number of people you'll work with effectively throughout your career.
I'm in contracts hell this week and not articulating things well, but my "be careful about your tribe" thing is one of my bigger, more important beliefs, so I hope I'm somewhere in the vicinity of communicating it.
I agree with what you're trying to express, and was the biggest "be careful not to overdo this". Getting outside your tribe is really healthy and good.
I'd phrase it like this: "find the people who are best in the world at what you want to do and learn from them". And then I would add "but get outside of their circle frequently. It will be good for them and you".
I'd phrase it like this: "find the people who are best in the world at what you want to do and learn from them". And then I would add "but get outside of their circle frequently. It will be good for them and you".
For the "what the world values" part, I've found is not so hard to predict once you dig into the Cultural Wars subject.
A tribute to work. Depressing.
I love working. I love other things too, but I love working!
every hobby and social activity that's worth doing is also work. it's just not the work you get paid for. that's why it's fun; there are no expectations other than your own, and you're free to have none whatsoever.
i mean, what's not work? watching netflix? chilling by the pool and drinking booze? can you really do that all day, every day? do we need tributes to that?
p.s. people worked their ass off to make netflix+chill possible for you to enjoy in your leisure time.
i mean, what's not work? watching netflix? chilling by the pool and drinking booze? can you really do that all day, every day? do we need tributes to that?
p.s. people worked their ass off to make netflix+chill possible for you to enjoy in your leisure time.
I guess you could consider things like hiking, surfing, camping, playing video games, going to parties, having lunch with friends, driving up the PCH with my dog, etc. as work but that seems awfully depressing. Sure...viewed from a business lens it's putting hours into honing a craft or building a network...but is it really work if you're not expecting a payoff at some point?
There's no right answer to the question I just posed, but I feel healthier when I look at activities outside my 9-5 as leisure and outlets. It doesn't mean I can't be good at them, but I would feel that I was cheapening my enjoyment of these activities (maybe by putting any value on them at all?) if I thought of them "work".
There's no right answer to the question I just posed, but I feel healthier when I look at activities outside my 9-5 as leisure and outlets. It doesn't mean I can't be good at them, but I would feel that I was cheapening my enjoyment of these activities (maybe by putting any value on them at all?) if I thought of them "work".
Sure, but you can also consider things like coding, designing new products, talking to users, meeting like-minded people, reading about technology, etc. as "not work". You don't have to expect a payoff from them, and it's often less depressing if you don't.
For sure, activities that are intrinsically fun/challenging/engaging and that ultimately result in unexpected, tangible financial payouts are the best.
In reality, I find myself doing a lot of projects at my 9-5 where I need to be realistic and explicit about their expected value - especially when I need to be accountable to my boss who has business goals to meet, and who knows the approximate value of each hour of my time in the office. So it's nice to do things with no metrics or strings attached or bosses (besides myself) in my free time.
Luckily I don't have to justify every activity at work...such as reading/commenting on HN :)
In reality, I find myself doing a lot of projects at my 9-5 where I need to be realistic and explicit about their expected value - especially when I need to be accountable to my boss who has business goals to meet, and who knows the approximate value of each hour of my time in the office. So it's nice to do things with no metrics or strings attached or bosses (besides myself) in my free time.
Luckily I don't have to justify every activity at work...such as reading/commenting on HN :)
you'll notice that i'm actually agreeing with you. what's fun for you may or may not be real 'work' in the vernacular sense. hiking is definitely work - even in the strict physical sense of the word. but what about something else, like carpentry or metalworking? these are definitely work, but also definitely hobbies for some people.
ycombinator is a venture capital firm and pretty much all they put out has to do with work and money and making lots of it. i was responding to the op who seemed upset that he's reading about work on a site about work... which is bizarre.
ycombinator is a venture capital firm and pretty much all they put out has to do with work and money and making lots of it. i was responding to the op who seemed upset that he's reading about work on a site about work... which is bizarre.
you're not even using the word the same way as the post you replied to. it's like you're talking to a different person entirely.
Anyone else have the tune to this song play in your head as you read? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bwVVpwBKUp0
[deleted]
When did YC become a self help blog
If you mean HN, this sort of article has always had a place here. I just checked the internet archive for the first date that popped into my head (March 3, 2009) and found one at #4:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090303070906/http://news.ycomb...
https://web.archive.org/web/20090303070906/http://news.ycomb...
Believe in yourself!!! No really, just believe!
Don't believe in the me who believes in you. Don't believe in the you that I believe in. Believe in the you who believes in yourself.
"I've decided to just settle for a regular five-figures job"
Stuff HN says...
Please don't post unsubstantive comments.
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13321354 and marked it off-topic.
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13321354 and marked it off-topic.
Thanks. I somehow misread it as over hundred thousand per year (five zeros).
"Five figures" includes minimum-wage earners if they work full-time.
[deleted]
10 years—that's the number of years it took me (in my personal and professional life) to reach a where I'm able to comfortably express what I want (although I still struggle). I often made the fatal mistake of assuming that others—like my partner, or manager—to simply "know" what it is, exactly, that I want. In retrospect, I'm unsurprised: asking for help was not something my parents, or culture (Asian), encouraged. It was the opposite.
Not only until I began managing people (in my previous role) did I realize how difficult it really is to infer what people want. I'm not a mind reader. Nobody is.
So, I agree: don't be afraid to ask for what you want.