Ask HN: Why do US companies mostly hire remote workers in USA?
Most of Remote OK job posts say "in USA". Why don't they look to hire internationally?
25 comments
Timezones, navigating two sets of employment laws, payroll complexity, cost of flying them in (even infrequently), language issues, recruitment (e.g. understanding foreign qualifications, advertising), and so on.
Typically if companies want remote workers abroad they avoid most of these by hiring an outsourcing company, letting the outsourcing company deal with the local stuff abroad, and all the US company has to do is send them a pile of money.
Hiring US remote worker doesn't solve all of these (e.g. two states in the US might have different employment laws) however it does solve at least half.
Typically if companies want remote workers abroad they avoid most of these by hiring an outsourcing company, letting the outsourcing company deal with the local stuff abroad, and all the US company has to do is send them a pile of money.
Hiring US remote worker doesn't solve all of these (e.g. two states in the US might have different employment laws) however it does solve at least half.
to add to this.. some companies have compliance issues where all employees need to be legal US citizens.
Why wouldn't these US companies hire them as consultants/contractors, which is fast, easy and cheap compared to hiring an outsourcing company that cost a lot of money?
In that way, the company doesn't need to care about local employment laws and payroll complexity. Each contractor signs a W8-BEN Form and takes care of its own local tax situation.
In that way, the company doesn't need to care about local employment laws and payroll complexity. Each contractor signs a W8-BEN Form and takes care of its own local tax situation.
In addition to Timezone and Payroll legalities, a number of companies are worried about IP rights too. In the US, the laws are generally understood already by US companies, whereas the legal structure and concepts around IP isn't as clear cut when you employ someone in say Brazil, China or India etc.
Not that any of those Countries are bad, but the complexity for a smaller business that doesn't already have a footprint in that Country is pretty high. For a company that already has a footprint in another Country and may already have formed their own corporation there as a subsidiary then the barrier is far less with respect to Payroll and IP type issues.
Another point, a company in CA that employs a person in say Kansas, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Wyoming etc, will find they can pay people well but still save a significant amount of money over hiring locally. All while having employees close to the same timezone and without any other barriers to overcome. Not to mention a west coast company having east coast employees can help with support and overlap, like wise if you reverse it.
Not that any of those Countries are bad, but the complexity for a smaller business that doesn't already have a footprint in that Country is pretty high. For a company that already has a footprint in another Country and may already have formed their own corporation there as a subsidiary then the barrier is far less with respect to Payroll and IP type issues.
Another point, a company in CA that employs a person in say Kansas, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Wyoming etc, will find they can pay people well but still save a significant amount of money over hiring locally. All while having employees close to the same timezone and without any other barriers to overcome. Not to mention a west coast company having east coast employees can help with support and overlap, like wise if you reverse it.
Cultural issues too. Wait until someone from a country with a different view on women in the workplace shares topless pics of his gf on the engineering slack channel. Or sends engineering candidates a coding test that shows a picture of a naked woman (in ascii, but def naked). You'll get to have all sorts of fun with HR and your lawyer.
I went on the French Hired.com yesterday, and asking me my race is simply illegal here, and having as option stuff like 'native american form Hawaii' (from memory, it was in french, making even less sense) did not really feel culturally sensitive. On the other hand, having my boss commenting on the look of a female engineer in the lunch room did not really make me feel good.
edit: but I would say that the american culture is shouted so loudly at the rest of the world that it's not really an issue in this direction.
edit: but I would say that the american culture is shouted so loudly at the rest of the world that it's not really an issue in this direction.
In the US, asking your race is allowed (but optional for you to complete) for reporting employment statistics.
In the US, asking just about anything is allowed. Certain information is generally unlawful to use in hiring decisions; though, so if you do ask it and don't fall into one of the exceptions where it is allowed to hire based on it, you probably want to both say up front and be able to demonstrate by evidence when challenged in court that it is (1) used for some specific purpose other than hiring decisions, and (2) separated from the identifying information after receipt so that it could not be used for hiring decisions even if those making that decision wanted to.
There is a popular myth that the things that are illegal to use in hiring decisions are illegal to ask, which isn't true (this probably comes as a slight distortion from managers receiving legal advice that those things should not be asked because asking them increases the risk to the company, which is true not because they are illegal to ask, but because asking produces the risk that a jury will believe a charge that they were used in hiring decisions.)
There is a popular myth that the things that are illegal to use in hiring decisions are illegal to ask, which isn't true (this probably comes as a slight distortion from managers receiving legal advice that those things should not be asked because asking them increases the risk to the company, which is true not because they are illegal to ask, but because asking produces the risk that a jury will believe a charge that they were used in hiring decisions.)
Payroll is a huge headache. I worked at a California-based company that hired a Canadian, and I think they spent more money sorting out all the legal/financial issues than they paid him.
Simply not true. It is very easy to work as a Canadian in the US. This is exactly why we have the TN visa.
Because of NAFTA, the US and Canada share a ton of workers.
Because of NAFTA, the US and Canada share a ton of workers.
The thread is about remote workers, not immigrants. He's talking about a Canadian who continues to work remotely in Canada, not a Canadian who's moved to work in the United States.
It makes no difference if he is a US resident or not.
Of course it does. If you pay someone when they reside in the United States, you don't have to deal with the Canada Revenue Agency or any of the provincial and local authorities at all. Instead, you deal with the same federal, state, and local authorities in the United States that you're already dealing with. Navigating bureaucracy is hard, and navigating additional unfamiliar bureaucracies is harder.
Not only was he not a US resident, he was actually working in Candada, so whatever labor laws and tax rules normally apply in Canada applied to him.
Quality could also be an issue. I hired some excellent people in India but they would have power-cuts every now and then, ridiculous internet speeds and inability to write good english.
I think it is quite common for east coast companies to hire European remote workers. I work in a Java team comprised of 7 people currently for a US Boston based company and 6 of the 7 are based in the EU (2 in UK,2 in Spain, 2 in Czech Republic).
There are certain barriers to hiring but it allows you to pick some really great engineers up that would just be impossible to do in San Fran etc without a huge budget.
There are certain barriers to hiring but it allows you to pick some really great engineers up that would just be impossible to do in San Fran etc without a huge budget.
They don't. US companies mostly hire remote workers in India and China, not in the US. When they do it overseas, they generally work with a local company to make the legal and logistical aspects simpler.
Timezones, for one thing.
Although, I've seen a lot of US/Canada only postings as well, so Mexico and S. America excluded.
I can somewhat understand S. America, but Mexico is in NAFTA!? (Probably presumed language issues.)
Yes, Mexico is in NAFTA. The agreement needed much public consultation when first proposed, partly because Canadians wanted legal assurances they would be allowed (by the U.S.) to keep their culture, but when Mexico was added it pretty much few under the radar.
I think other nations have been added as a "done deal" without advance public notice.
I think other nations have been added as a "done deal" without advance public notice.
ymmv, but in my experience, local devs are the best--culture, language, in person meetings, and timezones matter. Also, quality is usually better in my experience with local devs
[deleted]