Ask HN: anyone here moved from academia to corporate?
5 comments
Not sure it will help, but I had two three-year post-doc contracts. During the second I was doing external consultancy, and as my University contract was coming to an end, the company with whom I worked most closely offered me a job, which I took.
After many mergers, split offs and other coporate movements, I (and some colleagues) did a management buyout, so now I (part) own the descendant.
It's working well for me, but I think my position is a bit unusual.
Still, if you want to get into the commercial world, see if you can do some external consultancy while still employed by the University. They will want a cut, but it will give you a taste of what's wanted, and what it's like.
After many mergers, split offs and other coporate movements, I (and some colleagues) did a management buyout, so now I (part) own the descendant.
It's working well for me, but I think my position is a bit unusual.
Still, if you want to get into the commercial world, see if you can do some external consultancy while still employed by the University. They will want a cut, but it will give you a taste of what's wanted, and what it's like.
I cannot really do that because I've just finished my first postdoc. Despite scientifically it went extremely well, my contract got terminated pretty much the moment I told my advisor I wanted to look for a position as assistant professor (They don't like people moving on to become their competitors, I guess. Don't get me started with what are the things I hate about academia).
I have been thinking of starting an internet business of mine in the past year but did not get far yet because I though it would feel more like a "plan B" than a genuine choice and I wanted first to make sure I'd do it with the highest motivation.
Thanks for your view.
I have been thinking of starting an internet business of mine in the past year but did not get far yet because I though it would feel more like a "plan B" than a genuine choice and I wanted first to make sure I'd do it with the highest motivation.
Thanks for your view.
my contract got terminated pretty much the moment I told my advisor I wanted to look for a position as assistant professor
That is outrageous. I've never heard a case of this happening, everyone I know has had supervisors that did their best to make their postdocs succeed. (It seems it's even in your self-interest as a faculty, since screwing up-and-coming people over isn't going to lead to many collaborative opportunities in the future.)
Some people are just 1st class assholes, I guess, and you find them in all disciplines.
That is outrageous. I've never heard a case of this happening, everyone I know has had supervisors that did their best to make their postdocs succeed. (It seems it's even in your self-interest as a faculty, since screwing up-and-coming people over isn't going to lead to many collaborative opportunities in the future.)
Some people are just 1st class assholes, I guess, and you find them in all disciplines.
Hmmm; in the corporate world a position akin to a postdoc's would require no more than the standard two weeks notice.
Given the nature of the work and the theory of collegiality I'd expect things to be different, but what would you say is expected from postdocs? I guess seeking the position of professor is not something you'd be able to keep secret, if for no other reason than that the hiring institution would expect to talk to your current adviser and so on.
Maybe it's a good thing I got sidelined into a sordid life of programming ^_^.
Good luck! Finances forced me to change careers after my freshman year in college, but that was at a time when programming and system administration work was very hot (1980) and I had the skills for the former and the foundation for the latter. Today, I don't recommend a career in these areas unless you have a calling, and it doesn't sound like that's the case for you.
Given the nature of the work and the theory of collegiality I'd expect things to be different, but what would you say is expected from postdocs? I guess seeking the position of professor is not something you'd be able to keep secret, if for no other reason than that the hiring institution would expect to talk to your current adviser and so on.
Maybe it's a good thing I got sidelined into a sordid life of programming ^_^.
Good luck! Finances forced me to change careers after my freshman year in college, but that was at a time when programming and system administration work was very hot (1980) and I had the skills for the former and the foundation for the latter. Today, I don't recommend a career in these areas unless you have a calling, and it doesn't sound like that's the case for you.
Getting a job as professor can be difficult. There is a strong competition and it may take up to a year, sometimes more. Scientific etiquette usually says that your supervisor will support you during that time if they can, by allowing you to stay in the lab and keep doing research although at slower pace due to the traveling the job seek involves. In fact, advisors actually gain from postdocs finding good positions because it's the best publicity to attract good people in the future.
One thing that I learnd from my time doing research is that science is not moving so fast and so well because of the people; au contraire! It's because of the scientific method. The Galileian method is the best thing man ever came out with. Take a bunch of jerks, make them work in (at least loose) accordance to scientific method and they'll do amazing stuff.
One thing that I learnd from my time doing research is that science is not moving so fast and so well because of the people; au contraire! It's because of the scientific method. The Galileian method is the best thing man ever came out with. Take a bunch of jerks, make them work in (at least loose) accordance to scientific method and they'll do amazing stuff.
Sounds like you had a bad experience. Unless you're completely fed up, I would try finding a lab doing stuff that truly inspires you. They are out there and with some folks pursuing ventures simultaneously - see folks like Ed Boyden and John Donoghue, for instance.
If you can't find any research you still find exciting, then it may be time to cut the cord and flee the tower.
If you can't find any research you still find exciting, then it may be time to cut the cord and flee the tower.
I did have bad experience(s) with people but it doesn't mean I don't love what I was doing. I am actually very good at my job and find excitement very easily. I am not keen at doing just another postdoc though, simply because I don't need it (unless I decide to switch field completely).
There are certain things in academic science that I think simply don't work the way they should. I'd be very happy to try to change them but I am not willing to cope with them anymore.
May I ask you what is your main job right now? Is it your startup? The lab? Or something else? I find your split position - academy and outer world - quite interesting. I'll send you an email in the next days, if you don't mind getting in touch.
There are certain things in academic science that I think simply don't work the way they should. I'd be very happy to try to change them but I am not willing to cope with them anymore.
May I ask you what is your main job right now? Is it your startup? The lab? Or something else? I find your split position - academy and outer world - quite interesting. I'll send you an email in the next days, if you don't mind getting in touch.
I can relate with you since a few years ago, after 5.5 years of Postdoc in Theoretical Physics I decided to leave academia. I was fed up with the system and tired of begging for a job. So I moved to IT and I am a programmer right now. I had to start everything from scratch again and throw out of the window 15 years of study. The good thing is that now I have a decent job, I got married and I am finishing to pay my mortgage. Most of my collegues are Physicists too so the environment I am working on is not really different than before. Of course the job is quite different but people are more important than the job, as you know. Good luck!
Feel free to contact me - robg at knowhi dot com
I didn't mean to question your interests. That seems like the big determining factor and one that only you can decide.
We're bootstrapping on the startup and that takes up a bunch of my time. But I'm in the process of pursuing grants. Between the NRSA and SBIRs along with foundations that seems like the best way to both continue my research and to get the venture going. But grants don't move quickly. Hence the need to get used to living like a grad student!
I didn't mean to question your interests. That seems like the big determining factor and one that only you can decide.
We're bootstrapping on the startup and that takes up a bunch of my time. But I'm in the process of pursuing grants. Between the NRSA and SBIRs along with foundations that seems like the best way to both continue my research and to get the venture going. But grants don't move quickly. Hence the need to get used to living like a grad student!
I'm in exactly the same boat - finished my PhD in cognitive neuroscience at the University of Pennsylvania, now a postdoc, also at Penn, and want out. Funnily enough I'm also looking at things like McKinsey and BCG, but they hire on a yearly basis only - as in, I couldn't even get an interview until September 2010, and they wouldn't be making a hiring decision until January 2011.
I'd love to chat with you about this - send me an email to my username at 3e.org.
I'd love to chat with you about this - send me an email to my username at 3e.org.
Small world on these pipes!
It all depends on your interests and tolerance for risk. I've never cut the umbilical cord because I still enjoy my research. Being a visiting scientist has allowed me to keep a toehold in the academy and still push out papers. But I have needed more extended periods for ideas I wanted to pursue that everyday research didn't allow. I'm biased but the Boston area is perhaps one of the best places to try to turn research into action but it's less a startup culture, it seems, than CA.
Where possible you might consider lateral moves into fields that could benefit from the skills and concepts you've been thinking about but that are closer to industry. A clean break might feel more freeing however. That's where your current interests come in. If you spin off of your current work you'll probably have an easier time landing on your feet into a related field (e.g., computational vision and robotics?) or startup (e.g., lumosity.com). If you stay in your current position you can try some classes in new fields. Rely on the strengths you have there. See if you're interested in the business/finance side by auditing courses at Wharton (or your business school, crocowhile). Or sample research in bioengineering etc. A big university is a great place to reorient and by connecting with like minds. After all, that's what got you on your current path. Then again, if you see that as part of the problem, then a clean break may be necessary.
Honestly, the more I've been talking to people outside of the bubble, the more I've been seeing the bubble. But it's been a slow process of self-discovery for me. How quickly you move will probably depend on how much urgency you feel for a change. And how cheaply you live will determine how long you can live free to pursue your own ideas. YC and similar programs (DreamIT in Philly) seem like a really good way to develop any ideas you may be interested in pursuing.
It all depends on your interests and tolerance for risk. I've never cut the umbilical cord because I still enjoy my research. Being a visiting scientist has allowed me to keep a toehold in the academy and still push out papers. But I have needed more extended periods for ideas I wanted to pursue that everyday research didn't allow. I'm biased but the Boston area is perhaps one of the best places to try to turn research into action but it's less a startup culture, it seems, than CA.
Where possible you might consider lateral moves into fields that could benefit from the skills and concepts you've been thinking about but that are closer to industry. A clean break might feel more freeing however. That's where your current interests come in. If you spin off of your current work you'll probably have an easier time landing on your feet into a related field (e.g., computational vision and robotics?) or startup (e.g., lumosity.com). If you stay in your current position you can try some classes in new fields. Rely on the strengths you have there. See if you're interested in the business/finance side by auditing courses at Wharton (or your business school, crocowhile). Or sample research in bioengineering etc. A big university is a great place to reorient and by connecting with like minds. After all, that's what got you on your current path. Then again, if you see that as part of the problem, then a clean break may be necessary.
Honestly, the more I've been talking to people outside of the bubble, the more I've been seeing the bubble. But it's been a slow process of self-discovery for me. How quickly you move will probably depend on how much urgency you feel for a change. And how cheaply you live will determine how long you can live free to pursue your own ideas. YC and similar programs (DreamIT in Philly) seem like a really good way to develop any ideas you may be interested in pursuing.
email sent.
Many good answers here already.
What I can add is that having learned, worked or teached other parts of the corporate environment, say management, accounting, economics, entrepreneurship, public relations, which can be found in the corporate world will make the entry much more easier.
Knowing something of the above will help you move faster and the hurdle 'to learn on the job' is not there. But still be able to apply insight of (say neuroscience) to your job.
And consultancies aren't the only ones who are looking for outsiders to their business. Small companies and start-ups are much more open to people (IMHO) with a different profile but obviously in the last third part of the IQ spectrum. Smart people with a can do attitude are always an asset.
What I can add is that having learned, worked or teached other parts of the corporate environment, say management, accounting, economics, entrepreneurship, public relations, which can be found in the corporate world will make the entry much more easier.
Knowing something of the above will help you move faster and the hurdle 'to learn on the job' is not there. But still be able to apply insight of (say neuroscience) to your job.
And consultancies aren't the only ones who are looking for outsiders to their business. Small companies and start-ups are much more open to people (IMHO) with a different profile but obviously in the last third part of the IQ spectrum. Smart people with a can do attitude are always an asset.
Consider applying here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Wills_Neuroscience_Instit...
They'll understand that the market is trouble, and Jeff Hawkens (and presumably many of his employees) have had one foot in both doors for a while.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Wills_Neuroscience_Instit...
They'll understand that the market is trouble, and Jeff Hawkens (and presumably many of his employees) have had one foot in both doors for a while.
I am starting to consider that maybe I should take this as opportunity to explore new ways in life. I am thinking doing something completely unrelated to acquire new skills (and maybe some money) and then start something by myself again. I met someone who works for McKinsey recently and I am tempted to give it a try.
Has anyone here done a similar step? Namely, realizing that a career in university may not be the best for them and explore new area? How did it end up?