- The coolest and most challenging: pH, EC, and flow rate
The hardest part has been running everything on battery while maintaining accuracy and using LTE (2–4G) and not common LPWAN options like LoRa. I'm primarily a software guy, so the learning curve has been huge.
It's a SaaS + IoT + Plant Biology knowledge baked into one package. We are figuring things out on the fly as well (here's a link to one of the products https://www.hexafarms.com/main/hexaos). The aim is that the entire operations should be reduced to manual labor of handling the plants (and our software will inform you about that as well). Vertical indoor farming has been always close to my heart but at this point we address the wider space of Controlled Environment Agriculture (CEA) in general.
> How are you different from “VC-backed vertical indoor farming companies”?
Yikes! We are also going to be VC-backed soon. Went through Techstars recently. Hopefully, I'd have the humility to accept and not makes claims that go against the fundamental principles of physics, biology, and economics. Sorry but this is the best answer I could give.
We built a company around this very problem- indoor farming (including vertical indoor farming) is pretty complex and by default it's energy hungry. In theory, indoor farming is very efficient for commercial food production though. I thought we could be the company that does all the plant biology, automation complexity magic for growers, and growers just do seedling and harvesting in a super basic mechanical setup.
We are working with growers in EU, and they are all actually profitable growing normal veggies (lettuce, kale, etc.) as usual. But whenever we talked to some of the fancy VC-backed vertical indoor farming companies, they would usually not entertain us and would always claim that they were going to build everything by themselves. Almost always, the leadership in these companies was the type that didn't know anything about plants, software, status quo of AI, etc.
I didn't want to confess, but yes you're right. Elixir (or the willingness to learn Elixir) is a great filter for me to find the right people. Again, this is my purely subjective opinion and might as well be true for other languages as well.
I know-- I was scared like hell. But after the first week and multiple staging releases in less than 10 days, I was on top of it. Yes, hiring is real challenge and am facing it already. However, if I, even as a startup, reach the salary threshold, then hiring is not a problem. I'd say I've yet not found a case where I couldn't find a library for my use case.
I second this. I would say that I am pretty advanced with Python (and Django) and same with JavaScript (Vue and Nuxt) and have written applications that got used by multiple users. I saw a sharp rise in my productivity when I knew enough about the frameworks. But Elixir + PhoenixLiveView + Tailwind has been life changing.
I learned Elixir for the sake of the joy of learning a new programming language and I kept playing with it for few random days over 5-6 months. Finally, I took the leap of faith and for our startup I started the switch to Elixir + LiveView with minimal JavaScript hooks and I feel a weird bliss that we are two engineer FTEs and I can add features on a daily basis. Why that's the case, I still haven't ruminated myself, but my guess is 1. I have gotten older, 2. Elixir is beautiful and productive by design-- pattern matching, everything is a process (so the dimensionality of time is not an issue at all) and the code is kind of a right balance of simplicity and complexity, and in my opinionated view, there is "one" right way of doing things. 3. Standard tooling (mix, ExUnit). They have enabled us to write really maintainable code and for our next hires, we are willing to pay for them to learn Elixir than switching to other languages. Of course this is only for true for our web app which is actually a weird beast that interfaces farms, sensors, algorithms, and humans.
Quite few I had (assuming OPs question to be broad enough)-
1. Reading Malcolm X's autobiography _The Autobiography of Malcolm X_ in college. It transformed me such that within that one week of reading it, I developed (given my low standards) the strongest sense of orderliness in my life. Additionally, I decided for myself 'to straighten myself up' for this life.
2. Reading Dostoevsky's _Brothers Karamazov_. My 'inner' transformation (at the age of around 20.5) was so immense that it was also apparent from the outside. My transformation was 'not to be surprised by bad/evil' and seeing good in everything.
3. In programming/ computer science/ functional programming/ mathematics (I still don't fully get LISP, Haskell et. al. like other people here) but there are encounters in the field of lambda calculus, computation, cryptography that have left me totally transformed. Too many to elaborate.
OP here. No matter how hard I try, I just can't get it until I make frequent visits from 'different sides' to a location. I didn't even know about Topographical Disorientation, but it really hits home. Anecdotally speaking, I always apologize to people around me saying that, "I think I don't have the location module in my brain".
Author of the post here. Trying to respond to some of the comments. Firstly, apologies- I didn't intend to make anything click-baity. As a matter of fact, I didn't even post it here. I realized that I could have titled my post like "How to ask founders good questions".
But, and in all honesty, as a founder, it did/does feel such questions are existential. I used _search-engine_ as a mask, I'm actually building a deep-tech (I've commented/posted on HN before).
When you put everything on the line to build a startup for a mission you believe in to the extent that you can't even separate your existence from your startups 90% of the awake hours, then when such questions come from (this is important) "a specific set of stakeholders", it does become existential. I love being asked all these things from a random person or at a random pitch event. But when you're my colleague, co-founder, or my hero, or a potential investor who I've been in the loop with for weeks, then when you ask such questions, it does get hard.
Someone below suggested that such people probably shouldn't start a startup, but on the contrary, I wrote it not to whine about myself, but only with the sincere hope that if there's someone who is less tougher than I am, he/she would be more cared for (in the odd chance that someone reads it).
The true origin of this post was in my experience with building my indoor farming startup that will grow the best quality produce, cheaper, and way more resource efficiently than traditional agriculture. Ofc I've done my homework and I am actually taking a risk and doing the very uncomfortable by deciding to work on it. Imagine jumping back and forth between research-papers, circuit diagrams, dying-plants, finance, etc. etc., and then someone very relevant asks/tells you "you can't beat the oldest industry known to humankind", or "why can Infarm (a unicorn in the vertical) not do this?", "maybe just work on indoor grow lights (since it fits more into the standard lean startup model". In that moment, it seems existential. Maybe I interpret it wrong, but I interpret it as if you're telling me that my startup shouldn't (can't exist) and yes I'm so obsessed with my startup that I take it personally (again, only when it comes from specific stakeholders). I can give them the numbers, but if they say it can't be done or if it could have been done, it would have been done, then that's same as saying that I should shut up.
Waiting for someone to build something like this for founders of any promising startup out there (and not just YC startups). I totally understand the current choice of sticking to YC startups though. But do you imagine accepting non-YC startups sometime in the future?
I am a first-time founder of a deep-tech, and having secured pre-seed 6 months ago, and now that I have gathered all the evidence for the viability, I would definitely consider approaching something like 8vdX.
Sorry to read about such experiences people might have had, but I actually have had the exact opposite experience. I made few submissions/comments about 'dev' things, and because of the support of the HNers, I felt really good and was even more excited to work on them.
Second is my current moonshot I'm working on where I was expecting a lot of criticisms and negative comments, especially from programmers/devs in the AI space (Fully AI driven indoor farm, kind of deep mind for agriculture and understanding plants better than any human). But the largely positive feedback of the community was really energizing and uplifting.
I have posted this here before- hexafarms.com. I am trying to use ML to discover optimal phenotype for growing plants in vertical indoor farms to a. have the higest quality produce b. to lower the cost of producing leafy green/med plants, etc. within cities itself.
Basically, every leafy green (and herbs, and even mushrooms), can grow in a range of climatic condition (phenotype, roughly) ie temperature, humidity, water, CO2 level, pH, light (spectrum, duration and intensity) etc. As you might have seen around the world there is a rise in indoor vertical farms, but the truth is that 50% of those are not even profitable. My startup wants to discover the optimal parameters for each plant grown in our indoor vertical farm and eventually I would let our AI system control everything (something like alphaGo, but for growing plant X (lettuce, kale, chard, ). Think of it as reinforcement learning with live plants! I am betting on the fact that our startup will discover the 'plant recipes' and figure out the optimal parameters for the produce that we would grow. Then, the goal is that cities can grow food cheaper in more secure and sustainable way than our 'outsourced' approach in country side or far away lands.
So now I have secured some funding to be able to start working on optimizations, but I realized that *hardware* startups are such a different kind of beast (I am a good software product dev though, I think). Honestly, if anyone with experience in hardware related startups (or experience in the kind of venture I am in) would just want to meet me and advise me, I would take it any day. Being the star of the show, it's hard for me to handle market segmentation, tech dev, team, next round of funding, European tech landscape, etc. I am foreseeing so many ways that our decisions can kill my startup, all I need is advise from someone qualified/experienced enough. My email: david[at]hexafarms.com
OP here; not kidding, but once you get down to talking to your actual customers, one has only so much energy to convince people that GMO is not necessarily bad. May be I'm harming myself by being so honest here- but the general consumer is so pleased to know that our produce is so good and is not 'the plastic GMO thing'. This, so far, has been what I've found in over 10 restaurant/gourmet/general consumer interviews.
True, but I can't really predict the outcome due to covid. Just saw Dubai post-covid-onset, and to my eyes, nothing has changed much from food-supply-chain side.
I personally believe that permaculture would actually be the best solution overall, but our modern economy's pace and expectations would always keep such methods at bay. But at the same time, for leafy produce, and herbs, I think proper vertical farming would not only make it more affordable but also sustainable too. For the math, the rough estimates are production per m^2 (2-4kg on ground vs 70-400kg indoor farm), 10% lettuce in solid won't see the dining table i.e. they'd die, here there's no loss, off-season non-perennial produce, no problem for a vertical farm, the expenses on operations change too. Overall, if done properly, a very high-tech vertical farm should be able to break even in 2-3 yrs, even assuming a sales at no premium (which is very easy given the high-quality) i.e. at the shipped food i.e. the status-quo. But once people get used to the high-quality, and wholesalers get to enjoy the short supply chain due to indoor farms, I think the remote once will face a fierce competition, at least for select crops.
Right now (re-starting almost the fourth time), my goal is to get consistent 1. images 2. co2, ec, ph, temperature, humidity, light intensity/quality readings. Anyone putting in money (besides me) hesitated until now because they couldn't see what was in my head. So I'm remaking the setup with data-collection in mind first. It's almost shameful to confess that it is an 8 bed farm only :/ And this will be the setup for next 2 months. Once you've a 1200 plant bed (which is only 10 metre^2 with four layers), I think you will be able to demonstrate the efficiencies with the available data. ps: You can get a harvest every 19 days, roughly.
Computer vision is a big chunk here, and me being no expert, I'm trying to have the hardware setup right so I'd have to do little on the software side of data processing.
If you're doing on your own, and don't want to spend a lot, I'd just say that almost everything can be done with off the shelf boards and sensors.
It was!!! Personally, I have no aversion towards GMO. But in the end, it's the customers. It's already so hard to convince that food grown in clean and sterilized nutrient medium is far better than the romantic soil everyone is clinging to; GMO would take way more convincing. However, there are tastes that are indeed only found in the 'old' seeds, so there is do see the aversion non-GMO from customer side.
In terms of optimization, here are some:
1. What is the optimal time for getting a lettuce plant until harvest without juicing it up with nitrates?
2. What parameters could double the functional components of my mint (think about essential oils) and basil plants just by proper timing in stress and nutrition. These are already questions that botany departments have worked on- I want to bring them out in commercial setting (and may be a bit better).
3. Does back-radiation i.e. reflected light from plant leaves help in measuring plant well-being?
4. What's the right grow medium
5. In general, I BELIEVE, that there is a sub-optimal application (as in wastage) of light (which is roughly 20-30% of indoor farm expense), sub-optimal production in terms of the harvest we get. An improvement in harvest timing by a day would still be a very big volume once you scale it to bigger grow area; more importantly, I believe plant experts are good (even though very rare and expensive), but a DeepFarmer might be able to do better (and this is my main bet), both in terms of scaling and expertise.
- CO2. Side note: I was surprised to find that most (all?) CO2 sensors used in closed plant production setups are not meant to operate below 400 ppm.
- Air temperature, pressure, relative humidity
- Photosynthetically Active Radiation (PAR)
- Addons like: wind speed, wind direction, soil moisture and Electrical Conductivity (EC)
- The coolest and most challenging: pH, EC, and flow rate
The hardest part has been running everything on battery while maintaining accuracy and using LTE (2–4G) and not common LPWAN options like LoRa. I'm primarily a software guy, so the learning curve has been huge.