Rap Genius Traffic Has Dropped By Over 80%(quantcast.com)
quantcast.com
Rap Genius Traffic Has Dropped By Over 80%
https://www.quantcast.com/rapgenius.com?country=GLOBAL&1=1
22 comments
I consider myself sophisticated and I still use Google for something like Rap Genius:
"rap genius kendrick lamar swimming pools" would get me there quicker than any other way.
It's incredible that now that search string sends me to other pages that link to RG's lyrics but not directly to theirs.
"rap genius kendrick lamar swimming pools" would get me there quicker than any other way.
It's incredible that now that search string sends me to other pages that link to RG's lyrics but not directly to theirs.
That's why I /really/ like Chromes "tab to search" feature. When I visit a site with a search field Chrome remembers it. When I start typing the domain the URL bar says "Press TAB to search X", then you type in your search terms.
We're switching from Chrome to Firefox at work and their site-search is incredibly clunky in comparison.
We're switching from Chrome to Firefox at work and their site-search is incredibly clunky in comparison.
It's pretty easy to manage site searches in Firefox -- go to rapgenius.com, click on dropdown in the FF search box, click on add "rap genius", and that's it. Also, you are able to set keyword to it in "manage search engines" dialog in the same dropdown, for example "rg" -- so you will be able to write just "rg song" in the address bar to search on rapgenius.
Well that's different than searching for the URL (though I would suggest using tab to search the site within Chrome). I bet RapGenius got thousands of referrals from the keyword "rapgenius.com" per day. Obviously that will come back rather quickly, but it's something a lot of the HN audience would not normally think of happening.
If you actually knew how to use Google this wouldn't be a problem. The `site:` filter is your friend.
How is that faster? You're adding five characters + the .com , and will get exactly the same result.
Or just set up a custom search engine in Chrome, eg:
chrome://settings/searchEngines
search engine: rapgenius.com
keyword: rg
url: http://rapgenius.com/search?q=%s
Then just type rg<tab> in the omnibox and search for whatever you want, and get taken to rg's serp.
chrome://settings/searchEngines
search engine: rapgenius.com
keyword: rg
url: http://rapgenius.com/search?q=%s
Then just type rg<tab> in the omnibox and search for whatever you want, and get taken to rg's serp.
For most sites, Chrome should do this by default and the default keyword is just the site's URL. So simply:
rapgenius.com<tab>search terms
ra<tab>search terms
This feels like a bit of a regression. I used to be able to just use the automatic search, but it seems to be breaking for more and more sites recently. Even sites it used to pick up automatically, like tpb, now need to be manually specified.
And there's still no damned excuse for them not being able to search maps.google.com from the omnibox.
And there's still no damned excuse for them not being able to search maps.google.com from the omnibox.
aren't we overthinking this a little much?
You are coming off as incredibly pretentious. I was unaware that by typing in the search field and expecting relevant results I wasn't using Google correctly.
It's not a "problem." I'm just incredibly lazy when it comes to looking up rap lyrics and it works for me.
It happened slightly differently to Facebook
http://readwrite.com/2010/02/11/how_google_failed_internet_m...
http://readwrite.com/2010/02/11/how_google_failed_internet_m...
This is a ridiculous practical weakness to the web we have created. At a technical level it is designed to be relatively decentralised and fault tolerant, but what we have built on top is anything but :(
Is it really the web's weakness? Seems like user error to me.
My browser (Chrome) shares screen real estate between its search functionality and address bar. Therefore, if I have searched "facebook" on Google but have not explicitly typed "http://facebook.com" into the address bar, Chrome remembers the "facebook" search as I start to type it out. As a user, the next most obvious action to take is to tab-complete + enter, and voila, there goes the Google search for "facebook".
When I tab-complete + enter, Firefox autocompletes it to http://www.facebook.com and then opens the URL.
Have you explicitly entered http://www.facebook.com into the address bar in the past by any chance?
If RG thinks they're so great (and all the bandwagoners on HN), then they should prove it by playing fairly.
My suspicion is that the vast majority of people who search for lyrics don't care about song meanings or annotations. Azlyrics does just fine, which is why they've always been at the top. If people wanted song meanings they would search for song meanings.
My theory is that RG wasn't able to grow as fast as they hoped and have to resort to these methods. How else can RG justify a $15 million investment? Their biggest competitor, songmeanings.com, is bootstrapped with only a couple employees, which shows the true market size of the song meanings / annotations market.
Remember that most consumers want things that are insanely simple and give them immediate satisfaction. I'm not surprised that most people on HN think otherwise as they tend to be deeper thinkers than the average consumer.
My suspicion is that the vast majority of people who search for lyrics don't care about song meanings or annotations. Azlyrics does just fine, which is why they've always been at the top. If people wanted song meanings they would search for song meanings.
My theory is that RG wasn't able to grow as fast as they hoped and have to resort to these methods. How else can RG justify a $15 million investment? Their biggest competitor, songmeanings.com, is bootstrapped with only a couple employees, which shows the true market size of the song meanings / annotations market.
Remember that most consumers want things that are insanely simple and give them immediate satisfaction. I'm not surprised that most people on HN think otherwise as they tend to be deeper thinkers than the average consumer.
The difference between RG and songmeanings, and really any other lyrics website in existence, is the quality of the annotations. My habit of listening to rap has changed quite dramatically since I have discovered RG - I don't have to speculate about what a line might mean, because now there's a whole community of people who love rap collate their collective wisdom and tell you what it means. The verified annotations are also amazing...I mean seriously, what other site has artists themselves explaining what they meant for their own songs? I think the $15 million can be justified if you look at their long-term plans. They've built a model with rap and now they're expanding onto rock, pop and poetry. I see it this way: the sell for RG is for their whole slew of websites to become the wikipedia for literary/artistic interpretation, a position they have already locked down with rap. Whether that is worth $15 million is of course up to you, but it looks like it was worth it to some big name investors.
Ok cool. So RG is way better than songmeanings.
That doesn't change the size of the market.
That is, unless you think the quality or features are so good that it will increase the size of the market. In that sense, I don't think RG is groundbreaking enough IMO.
Songmeanings has been around for over a decade. If the market demand was really there ($15mm investment worth), they would naturally gotten some funding, or enough revenue, to improve their product and soak the $ potential out of the market.
That doesn't change the size of the market.
That is, unless you think the quality or features are so good that it will increase the size of the market. In that sense, I don't think RG is groundbreaking enough IMO.
Songmeanings has been around for over a decade. If the market demand was really there ($15mm investment worth), they would naturally gotten some funding, or enough revenue, to improve their product and soak the $ potential out of the market.
We've been approached a handful of times for funding as well as potential acquisitions into larger networks/sites throughout the years. However, the logistics have never made much sense, if I am being honest, so we've always declined.
Currently we are talking to a group which is very promising. Can't say much more, but hopefully we can in the near future.
Currently we are talking to a group which is very promising. Can't say much more, but hopefully we can in the near future.
Their ambition isn't limited to the song meanings / annotations market. They wouldn't have raised $15m on that. Look at how they're branching out. PoetryGenius, NewsGenius, etc. They want to annotate the world's information.
That's a huge market and with RG's excellent execution so far (everyone has missteps - remember that), it warrants a $15m bet.
That's a huge market and with RG's excellent execution so far (everyone has missteps - remember that), it warrants a $15m bet.
That could be their goal, but it's a lot easier said than done, especially in markets that haven't been executed before.
For example, Rdio tried to do Vdio with video and look how that turned out.
Off the top of my head, I can't even think of one company that expanded to different categories successfully. It's difficult and really rare.
For example, Rdio tried to do Vdio with video and look how that turned out.
Off the top of my head, I can't even think of one company that expanded to different categories successfully. It's difficult and really rare.
I thought annotations were just a way to sidestep paying licensing on the lyrics.
Very well written.
I think if anything, the fact that they are funded and need to produce positive ROI for their investment creates incentive to "grow at all costs". However, the cost has been too great.
I think if anything, the fact that they are funded and need to produce positive ROI for their investment creates incentive to "grow at all costs". However, the cost has been too great.
I'm not sure if it's right or wrong what Google did, but it was certainly a shit business decision. It's Google's job to be a proper search tool for anyone to get the best possible results when searching something as simple as "rapgenius". If I search "rapgenius" and don't get the hugely popular website http://rapgenius.com as the first result, then that's bad service on Google's end.
It's a game theory thing. There have been and will be a huge number of sites that would do anything to be #1 on Google.
In an iterated game, punishments must have a deterrent effect. They might seem disproportional, but Google's goal is not "do what's best for the world in this one instance, ignoring the long-term effects". Google's goal is "make sure nobody will try to cheat Google's algorithms, now or in the future." This is how you build the best search engine in the long run.
It would be the same if Google didn't dominate search, though they'd have to be more careful about optimally calibrating the punishment.
(N.B. This argument remains true even if other people are gaming Google right now.)
In an iterated game, punishments must have a deterrent effect. They might seem disproportional, but Google's goal is not "do what's best for the world in this one instance, ignoring the long-term effects". Google's goal is "make sure nobody will try to cheat Google's algorithms, now or in the future." This is how you build the best search engine in the long run.
It would be the same if Google didn't dominate search, though they'd have to be more careful about optimally calibrating the punishment.
(N.B. This argument remains true even if other people are gaming Google right now.)
Well put. Also, maybe RG made things worse for themselves with their "apology", which attempted to point out other misdeeds by competing lyrics sites. Had that argument prevailed, the message sent might have been "it's probably safe to game Google as long as you can find other successful-seeming sites playing the same game", which would be a very bad precedent for Google to be facing.
> but it was certainly a shit business decision
Not really, because they're using this kind of punishment to make an example of them in order to prevent future SEO abuse by others. It's probably for the better.
Not really, because they're using this kind of punishment to make an example of them in order to prevent future SEO abuse by others. It's probably for the better.
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The abuse already goes on, and it's much more involved and 1,000% more effective than trading links.
+1. Even if RapGenius did cheat, they are still the best solution for Google's customers (i.e. those sheep whose data can be mined and sold).
So I don't get why Google essentially fucks up with their customers.
So I don't get why Google essentially fucks up with their customers.
Why is RapGenius the best result for Google searchers? I just want lyrics, if Google can get me to them I am happy. RG has a ton of bloat that I don't want or need.
Because when you google for "rapgenius" the best result is unquestionably rapgenius.
That's true but that is just one query, I'd assume an overwhelming of RG's organic traffic didn't come from searching the company name.
> " I just want lyrics, if Google can get me to them I am happy."
This is what I said when I met with Milun Tesovic from Metrolyrics, and what was more shocking is that they were licensing lyrics and paying royalties for it and that they used jQuery to block people from copying and pasting lyrics. You could be sued for copying pasting "copyrighted" text and that every other lyrics site were using "pirated" text.
You telling me consumers can't copy paste the words to "bitches aint shit but hoes and tricks " (Dr. Dre 1992, Chronic) because they are paying royalties for it out of their own pocket?
Needless to say, the traffic between azlyrics and metrolyrics reflects this. Former has been trending up for the past few years, while metrolyrics have stagnated and is less frequented than azlyrics.
This is what I said when I met with Milun Tesovic from Metrolyrics, and what was more shocking is that they were licensing lyrics and paying royalties for it and that they used jQuery to block people from copying and pasting lyrics. You could be sued for copying pasting "copyrighted" text and that every other lyrics site were using "pirated" text.
You telling me consumers can't copy paste the words to "bitches aint shit but hoes and tricks " (Dr. Dre 1992, Chronic) because they are paying royalties for it out of their own pocket?
Needless to say, the traffic between azlyrics and metrolyrics reflects this. Former has been trending up for the past few years, while metrolyrics have stagnated and is less frequented than azlyrics.
I don't think it's fair to make that kind of teleological evaluation... Yes, RapGenius may be the best solution for google's customer. However, if Google permits shady SEO tactics simply because the ends justify the means, then what kind of precedent are they establishing? They would be encouraging that kind of behavior. As a heavy RapGenius user, I'm upset with what occurred, but from an objective standpoint, it makes sense why Google made its decision.
Kind of like Too Big to Fail. Hmm...
Humorously, now that RapGenius is dead in SERP it is not a hugely popular website.
I agree; I just shrugged and made a mental note to use Bing whenever I look for lyrics. I already use it for image searching and translation.
I've geen getting the same old spammy sites in my results for years. Why not start there instead of the genuinely useful rapgenius?
People couldn't search for lyrics on Google before Rap Genius came along?
Microsoft should jump on this. Run ads promoting Rap Genius as the best lyrics site on the web, and noting that you can find it easily with Bing, but not with Google. Kind of like those Visa ads that highlighted some cool place and then said don't bother of you use American Express, because the cool place doesn't take AmEx, it takes Visa.
I wish I was a Microsoft marketing exec so I could take credit for this idea.
I'm sure some exec already has.
This is from the same team that brought us the 'scroogled' campaign? I doubt they know what Rap Genius is....
I find Google's actions to be bizarre.
Getting people to link to you is what SEO is all about. Basically every site concerned with SEO does it in one form or another -- I thought this was what most every blog affiliate program was about!
So Google decides to "punish" RapGenius just because its program got a little bit of public notice, while 99.9% of other sites which do the same, continue doing the same thing, unpunished?
It just comes across as capricious and petty. For a site as large as Google, there should be some kind of due process involved with clear published guidelines, or (preferably) they should just work on improving their algorithm.
How is what Rap Genius is doing any different than Amazon or iTunes paying you for affiliate links, or you paying a blog to advertise you, or buying a friend a beer to include a link to you? Where exactly does the line get drawn?
Getting people to link to you is what SEO is all about. Basically every site concerned with SEO does it in one form or another -- I thought this was what most every blog affiliate program was about!
So Google decides to "punish" RapGenius just because its program got a little bit of public notice, while 99.9% of other sites which do the same, continue doing the same thing, unpunished?
It just comes across as capricious and petty. For a site as large as Google, there should be some kind of due process involved with clear published guidelines, or (preferably) they should just work on improving their algorithm.
How is what Rap Genius is doing any different than Amazon or iTunes paying you for affiliate links, or you paying a blog to advertise you, or buying a friend a beer to include a link to you? Where exactly does the line get drawn?
There are clear guidelines and due process.
Amazon and iTunes aren't paying you for the link they are paying you for the sale.
In the second and third cases it is no different if you're paying for a keyword link and if Google found out about it you would be penalized.
Amazon and iTunes aren't paying you for the link they are paying you for the sale.
In the second and third cases it is no different if you're paying for a keyword link and if Google found out about it you would be penalized.
Where can you find those guidelines?
Besides the other links, here are the ones for link schemes, which are the issue in this case: https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/66356
https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/35769
(You find it by searching google webmaster guidelines)
(You find it by searching google webmaster guidelines)
> How is what Rap Genius is doing any different than Amazon or iTunes paying you for affiliate links, or you paying a blog to advertise you, or buying a friend a beer to include a link to you?
I don't know about affiliate links, but paying a blog to advertise you will also land you on Google's shitlist (unless you mark the link nofollow, in which case they don't care.)
Edit: according to http://www.webpronews.com/heres-what-googles-matt-cutts-says... you are actually supposed to nofollow affiliate links but they can usually handle it automatically for big sites like Amazon or iTunes.
I don't know about affiliate links, but paying a blog to advertise you will also land you on Google's shitlist (unless you mark the link nofollow, in which case they don't care.)
Edit: according to http://www.webpronews.com/heres-what-googles-matt-cutts-says... you are actually supposed to nofollow affiliate links but they can usually handle it automatically for big sites like Amazon or iTunes.
The problem here is inherent with anything that can be fairly characterized as "prosecutorial discretion." Human editing is going to be inherently biased, and it's unfortunate to see a move away from the use of clever algorithm hacks as the preferred way to achieve clean results. You'll find no argument from me against SEO tricks being punished... but taking shortcuts will just result in favoritism at one point or another.
This has moved from an interesting case study in SEO to unadulterated schadenfreude.
FYI, schadenfreude : a feeling of enjoyment that comes from seeing or hearing about the troubles of other people
schadenfreude by who? Certainly not by Google or the media.
By people who are not fans of Rap Genius, of which there are many. (I like the site, for what it's worth).
There have been some bad comments here for sure but the waste majority has been civilized and reasonable because ultimately black hat seo tears the fabric of web trust apart. Personally, I have nothing against RG but I do expect more from a YC startup.
Right, but this is a link to a piece of data. Calling it "emotive" is odd.
All data is emotive. All emotions stem from data.
When you look at the Mona Lisa or hear Sun by Koreless (IMO the most beautiful piece of music from 2013) you're processing data. It's just wave oscillations or light refraction.
When you look at the Mona Lisa or hear Sun by Koreless (IMO the most beautiful piece of music from 2013) you're processing data. It's just wave oscillations or light refraction.
No, data is not per-se emotive. You're confusing (amongst other things) the sub-set data that is aesthtetic, with the complet set of Data, and in vaguely more technical terms making an inference that is invalid.
If the data didn't stir some emotion, it wouldn't have been updated to the front page.
If the data didn't stir some [curiosity], it wouldn't have been updated to the front page.
=/=
If the data didn't stir some [shit], it wouldn't have been updated to the front page.
=/=
If the data didn't stir some [shit], it wouldn't have been updated to the front page.
Oops, upvoted.
But yes, those are two possible emotive situations that this piece of data might stir.
But yes, those are two possible emotive situations that this piece of data might stir.
Why was it disliked (prior to this incident)?
Maybe the Heroku trouble?
http://news.rapgenius.com/Lemon-money-trees-rap-genius-respo...
http://news.rapgenius.com/Lemon-money-trees-rap-genius-respo...
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Ain't no schaden in this here freude, pal.
What I find shocking is a single company (Google) has the power to cause such a dramatic decrease of a website it deemed "unworthy".
Sure, it can justify its actions by saying they broke the rules, but pressing the a "death button" for a website is not a solution.
I feel as though Google needs to re-examine their core principles and determine how to better handle an issue like this. Otherwise, I suspect Google might have anti-trust and anti-competitive issues and the government might set the rules for them, and we all know how bad that would be.
Sure, it can justify its actions by saying they broke the rules, but pressing the a "death button" for a website is not a solution.
I feel as though Google needs to re-examine their core principles and determine how to better handle an issue like this. Otherwise, I suspect Google might have anti-trust and anti-competitive issues and the government might set the rules for them, and we all know how bad that would be.
Ummm. If Rap Genius had traffic of it's own where people were going to them directly, and google were somehow taking that away from them it might be possible to be sympathetic. But, Rap Genius made a calculated business decision to focus their efforts on getting search traffic and not on building a stable organic foundation to which extra traffic would have been a nice bonus but not the controlling factor in their success.
And really, what value does Rap Genius add to lyrics?
And really, what value does Rap Genius add to lyrics?
> but pressing the a "death button" for a website is not a solution.
What is a solution then? It seems like a good deterrent. It has to hurt.
In Poland (where I'm from) they similarly punished Ceneo, Skąpiec, Nokaut (all most popular price comparator services) and even Tesco. See http://www.seoportal.pl/ceneo-skapiec-tesco-ukarane-przez-go... (Polish) or http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&pre... (English by Google Translate).
Not one of these websites has died, but a lesson was taught.
What is a solution then? It seems like a good deterrent. It has to hurt.
In Poland (where I'm from) they similarly punished Ceneo, Skąpiec, Nokaut (all most popular price comparator services) and even Tesco. See http://www.seoportal.pl/ceneo-skapiec-tesco-ukarane-przez-go... (Polish) or http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&pre... (English by Google Translate).
Not one of these websites has died, but a lesson was taught.
The punishment should fit the crime, and I believe the punishment was far too excessive. In my opinion, I think a solution exists where when one searches for rap genius, rap genius results are on top, not on the 7th page.
I am not defending rap genius for what they did, but criticizing Google for their actions.
I am not defending rap genius for what they did, but criticizing Google for their actions.
Fundamentally the problem is that a lyrics site is going to mainly get hits from a search engine. Not many people are going to type rapgenius.com and then use their search to find the song they want.
Which is really a shame, because RapGenius is a better lyrics site than all the rest by leaps and bounds. Google is acting like a cartel here and it's absolutely ridiculous. I hope they can beat this thing.
RapGenius doesn't need to 'beat this thing'. They need to suck it up and deal with the punishment for getting caught cheating. Google has very clear guidelines. RapGenius decided to go blackhat SEO anyway (because 'everyone else does it'). They got caught (blatantly). And now they're dealing with the penalty.
If you don't want to have a 6 month penalty on Google, don't cheat.
If you don't want to have a 6 month penalty on Google, don't cheat.
Rapgenius needs to find some way to recover from this if they are to survive. What are you saying they don't need to do?
I do think that RapGenius' punishment is pretty harsh, but I don't think Google's behavior is "absolutely ridiculous". RapGenius did some shady stuff and they should be penalized for it so that this stuff doesn't pervade the web. I also don't think Google is acting like a cartel, in that they aren't extorting RapGenius or killing family members. But maybe Google should've laid off the crusade after a week or so.
I mostly agree with you. However, I think the parent comment was referring to the economic sense of "cartel"[1].
[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel
[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel
I haven't that read much about cartels in a long time but Google's behaviour here doesn't seem to fit that of a cartel based on a quick reading of the wikipedia page you provided.
Google penalized BMW, arguably one of the best automobile manufacturers in the world. Very little outrage over that.
Just because you're good at something doesn't mean you're above the rules. I RapGenius was an AWFUL lyric site there would be zero sympathy from anyone over their SEO tactics.
Just because you're good at something doesn't mean you're above the rules. I RapGenius was an AWFUL lyric site there would be zero sympathy from anyone over their SEO tactics.
I don't argue the merits, but the BMW case is obviously different (BMW core business, dependency on Google results, etc.), hence the disproportionate reaction.
Google is a corporation. If you want to do business with them, you follow their rules, or face the consequences. RG didn't follow those rules.
How is this ridiculous?
How is this ridiculous?
My feeling is that Google is acting like a monopoly. It's wrong that a private company is able to exert this much power over others, even if the others are being shady.
That's only the case because this company has built its model with Google as a primary player.
I understand the facts of the situation--a rap lyrics website HAS to build around Google to achieve optimal success. But if you aren't willing to give away that much control, build a less-successful version or just find another business.
I understand the facts of the situation--a rap lyrics website HAS to build around Google to achieve optimal success. But if you aren't willing to give away that much control, build a less-successful version or just find another business.
This certainly points out one interesting thing... each and every content producer in the world has a vested stake in promoting other, alternative search engines. No one should put all of their eggs in one basket.
If you're a content producer, you should absolutely be looking for ways to promote other search engines (and other traffic sources) as a hedge against getting screwed by a change at $DOMINANT_PLAYER.
If you're a content producer, you should absolutely be looking for ways to promote other search engines (and other traffic sources) as a hedge against getting screwed by a change at $DOMINANT_PLAYER.
No, this company has built its model with search engine results as a primary player.
Google just happens to be the monopolist (and, furthermore, the cartel) in search.
Google just happens to be the monopolist (and, furthermore, the cartel) in search.
I disagree.
That said, the landscape was already formed when they made that decision, so I imagine it was an informed one and doesn't change the meat of my comment.
That said, the landscape was already formed when they made that decision, so I imagine it was an informed one and doesn't change the meat of my comment.
They're using this as a punitive measure to prevent SEO abuse from happening in the future. I don't see much of a problem with it. Google is doing everyone a favor here - including helping out other search engines.
Users who care enough can just go directly to the site.
Users who care enough can just go directly to the site.
google already took equal measures with other companies, pretty public all of them. this story is making a lot of noise on the interwebs because its a known startup with well known investors. had it been a random blog no one would be talking about this.
google's action is only consistent with what it has done in the past with others.
google's action is only consistent with what it has done in the past with others.
I greatly prefer AZLyrics - they give me the lyrics on a page with just the lyrics, that's all I want nearly 100% of the time.
It's not even a contest: http://i.imgur.com/H1QixcN.png
It's not even a contest: http://i.imgur.com/H1QixcN.png
That's because you have AdBlock running. This is what I got: http://i.imgur.com/R0wOh3R.png
Oh, there was also a big pop up page: http://www.azlyrics.com/eyeblaster/addineyeV2.html http://i.imgur.com/RwiGpdq.png
Oh, there was also a big pop up page: http://www.azlyrics.com/eyeblaster/addineyeV2.html http://i.imgur.com/RwiGpdq.png
This. Sometimes I feel the ppl claiming rg'S results are better aren't actually even looking for lyrics. They're just comparing the brand name, ui experience, startup culture, tech etc
Don't forget that rap genius didn't / doesn't want to just be a lyrics site, they also do the whole "what do these lyrics mean" deal. I'd have no idea what 2 Chainz was going on about half the time were it not for RG.
You'd have no idea what 2 chainz was saying, or the meaning of what he is saying?
Which begs the question: if you don't know what 2 chainz is going on about half the time why do you listen to him?
Which begs the question: if you don't know what 2 chainz is going on about half the time why do you listen to him?
It was an example. However, he uses a lot of slang (throwing 'n into the middle of words).
Don't even get me started on MF Doom. Love that guy, no idea what he's talking about. http://rapgenius.com/Danger-doom-sofa-king-lyrics
Don't even get me started on MF Doom. Love that guy, no idea what he's talking about. http://rapgenius.com/Danger-doom-sofa-king-lyrics
If you treat the voice as another instrument it can be enjoyable without making sense.
Sometimes music transcends language - see opera & theatre, or even just gangnam style.
Then people should stop claiming that RG is the best "lyrics" site. Lyrics are simply lyrics and RG does no better than AZlyrics in that regard.
They can claim they're the best annotations or song meanings site instead.
This is perhaps further argument to use azlyrics.
> Don't forget that rap genius didn't / doesn't want to just be a lyrics site, they also do the whole "what do these lyrics mean" deal.
Do we really want to know the true meaning behind Dr. Dre's masterpiece? Is it so important that it needs $15 million dollars? Seems to me the wheels were being reinvented and being sold as square.
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/drdre/bitchesaintshit.html
Do we really want to know the true meaning behind Dr. Dre's masterpiece? Is it so important that it needs $15 million dollars? Seems to me the wheels were being reinvented and being sold as square.
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/drdre/bitchesaintshit.html
Bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks
Lick on these nuts and suck the dick
Get the fuck out after you're done
And I hope in my ride to make a quick run...Well yeah you don't need meanings for some songs that pretty literal like that, but if you listen to say some of Lupe Fiasco's top songs where he has a metaphor referencing another metaphor every line then those meanings can be pretty helpful to decipher what he means.
And I hope in my ride to make a quick run...
Too bad you didn't use rap genius. The above line doesn't make sense. Rap genius has something different, and probably gets it right:
Too bad you didn't use rap genius. The above line doesn't make sense. Rap genius has something different, and probably gets it right:
And I hops in my ride to make a quick run...I quite like Spotify + musixmatch: http://i.imgur.com/S4rn5ug.jpg?1
The only shameful thing about it, is that it doesn't happen more often. It took some major tech articles which showed the way RapGenius gamed the system, in order for Google to man up and step in.
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Is it though? Though I may be making an assumption that a substantial amount of traffic is retention, if people aren't coming back does that mean that RapGenius really didn't offer that much over other lyrics sites?
If you were Google, knowing that someone is gaming the system, what would you have done differently?
Google is acting in their best interest which is to see that they are the consumer's sole choice when it comes to search. It makes sense that they would try and make an example to send the message that they are willing to go to great lengths (such as taking out businesses that depend on their traffic source) to those that don't play by the rules.
Azlyrics is the best imho, no heavy javascript, no annotations, just simple lyrics you can copy paste in to your blog or facebook.
Azlyrics is the best imho, no heavy javascript, no annotations, just simple lyrics you can copy paste in to your blog or facebook.
It started out as rap genius and now its extending its tentacles to all types of music and even non-music related subjects Eventually, it would become just another annoying agitator website that clutters the search results with less than helpful results, so this was a good move on google's part.
There really needs to be some checks and balances here. Perhaps an opensource search engine? I think an entity like Google having so much control over which businesses die or survive is a little ridiculous.
The issue is Google has become the only way to discover content on the web. Before Google, there was much more competition or alternative ways to make content discoverable. Now people basically only "google" stuffs up, and that's not going to change. And search capabilities on most websites are provided by Google too ,that's insane and dangerous. Google has become the WEB and if you are not on Google , you dont exist.
Google is now an institution thus "too big to fail",and so much for anti-trust laws.
Do you have any idea how easy it would be to game an open source search engine?
We already have an Open Source search engine, it's called YaCy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YaCy
Of course, nobody uses it.
Of course, nobody uses it.
ironically google trends shows a massive increase in interest
http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=rapgenius.com
This reminds me of the Miley Cirus insanity of past months. She gained more popularity than ever before by acting erotic and capitalizing on peoples' disgust. People were promoting her name in insults and jokes around the world.
Here, the term "Rap Genius" is being popularized by controversy.
Here, the term "Rap Genius" is being popularized by controversy.
"there is no such thing as bad publicity…" would be really interesting to see their analytics data / wonder that will be down 80% as well
Unfortunately, that quote applies far to often. I'm hesitant to comment on threads like this for the same reason; I don't want to encourage such behavior with my attention
Honestly I never heard about rapgenius before and never seen it in top 3 in google when searching for lyrics (using google from Europe, logged out). Almost always azlyrics is the top match for me.
Is the search interest attributed to people wanting to see how low rap genius is ranked now on google, or people who actually want to visit the rap genius site? I suspect it is the former.
Hmm...
"This site reaches over 24 million monthly people, of which 12 million (48%) are in the U.S.The typical visitor watches Nickelodeon, visits pbskids.org, and listens to National Public Radio."
"This site reaches over 24 million monthly people, of which 12 million (48%) are in the U.S.The typical visitor watches Nickelodeon, visits pbskids.org, and listens to National Public Radio."
All I can glean from that is that the typical visitor to RapGenius can't be bothered to set up a separate user account for his/her children.
This brings up an important point: hardly anyone knows how to configure or troubleshoot their computer. This is by far a more important point than some arbitrary "learn to code" movement that doesn't teach CS, and does NOT teach programming – it's like giving somebody a hammer and telling them to nail a nail into a board of wood, without teaching them how to build anything with that hammer. Instead, we should be teaching people how to maintain the furniture they already own first. I just have zero respect for Code.org at this point, it's their own agenda they're trying to fulfill. They don't care about the future of the U.S., it's just self-aggrandizement as usual.
Sorry for the OT.
This brings up an important point: hardly anyone knows how to configure or troubleshoot their computer. This is by far a more important point than some arbitrary "learn to code" movement that doesn't teach CS, and does NOT teach programming – it's like giving somebody a hammer and telling them to nail a nail into a board of wood, without teaching them how to build anything with that hammer. Instead, we should be teaching people how to maintain the furniture they already own first. I just have zero respect for Code.org at this point, it's their own agenda they're trying to fulfill. They don't care about the future of the U.S., it's just self-aggrandizement as usual.
Sorry for the OT.
I'm confused. Do you think RapGenius visitors are children or adults?
RapGenius visitors are probably adults or young adults, but the fact that the average "visitor" visits NPR and pbskids is indicative that the visitor has children or siblings, which means that a child and an adult are on the same browser on the same user.
And that is relevant … why, exactly?
There often is simply no need at all for separate user accounts on a family computer.
There often is simply no need at all for separate user accounts on a family computer.
> is indicative that the visitor has children or siblings
... or parents.
... or parents.
Fair point, but I doubt anyone visiting pbskids and Nick is upping their swag by checking out what verse Jay-Z just busted.
So?
You bring up an important point. The people pushing code.org assume people have the same 'operational' level of knowledge that a standard power user has.
We should be teaching people how to run virus scans and backups before writing an application that prints a colored letter to the screen.
We should be teaching people how to run virus scans and backups before writing an application that prints a colored letter to the screen.
Does this not prove the incentive to win at SEO at all costs?
Has google disclosed other sites penalized for the same behavior?
Has google disclosed other sites penalized for the same behavior?
All kinds of sites regularly get penalized for this type of behavior.
So everyone talks about RG being superior due to its annotation. (true) But doesn't this identify that 80% of it's traffic comes from "m-low dogg gangsta money freaks and junk lyrics" searches? So at maximum, 20% of users use annotation features (surely some still use it for purely lyrics simply due to it being it easy to remember)
That's ignoring the presumably large contingent of users including myself and other commenters here who use Google as a direct line to search Rapgenius, like "Rapgenius Kendrick Lamar swimming pools," as it's faster than going to Rapgenius itself.
You could get more accurate numbers by looking at at percent of search traffic to Rapgenius does not include the keyword "Rapgenius" (though you can't do that anymore since google now scrubs SERP referrers).
You could get more accurate numbers by looking at at percent of search traffic to Rapgenius does not include the keyword "Rapgenius" (though you can't do that anymore since google now scrubs SERP referrers).
I wonder if this penalty would have been this severe if their "apology" was an actual apology. If I was in Google's position and had waited to see the RG response, I would have been less forgiving after the tone of that letter. But that is just my opinion...
Impressive what one company can do to you if they decide you're not playing by their rules. (Not defending RG, I just think this is a good example of how much power Google has..)
That's our world. Everytime we trumpet the fact that they're a power that can stand up to the Apples and NSAs of the world, remember where that power and strength comes from. Not a bad thing, merely a double-edged sword.
Has Google specified when the penalty will end?
why is rap genius the best for lyrics? if i want lyrics, i want a simple print out of the lyrics
They have added value in their annotated lyrics, which comes in handy especially with cryptic word play/slang in rap lyrics.
You realize any Joe Schmoe can annotate what he personally believes the meaning of a particular lyric is.
If you read any Kanye West lyrics on that site, they break down every line like it's some kind of literary divine intervention of pure brilliance by grasping at every straw possible.
If you read any Kanye West lyrics on that site, they break down every line like it's some kind of literary divine intervention of pure brilliance by grasping at every straw possible.
That's because every Kanye West line literally is a literary divine intervention of pure brilliance, of course. Anyway, there is a verification system in place and you can also discuss the line through a commenting system. I usually find their annotations to be precise and correct.
Agree that's sometimes happens. The site also incentivizes every single word to be explained, which makes for some pretty mundane, very little explanations. But there are times where I just don't get the reference and someone's been kind enough to provide it.
I only ever search for lyrics if I want to understand a nuance I think I'm missing. RapGenius has always been my go-to for that.
Perhaps there is a market for a curl or git based lyrics downloader in the terminal.
"Don't be evil." Well, at least until you become a monopolist. Then go right ahead.
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it's ridiculous! Google cannot do this!
It's ridiculous because breaking the rules and not getting caught is the only way to win the game.
Why not? Rap Genius ignored Google's rules
Google can, and Google will.
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Since you can't find RapGenius by searching for it there is a decent sized audience of people who are under the assumption that RapGenius does not exist anymore. It's bizarre to the HN crowd, but very real. Check out their twitter feed:
https://twitter.com/RapGenius