How to intern in Silicon Valley with a J1 visa(blog.sendtoinc.com)
blog.sendtoinc.com
How to intern in Silicon Valley with a J1 visa
http://blog.sendtoinc.com/2013/12/11/silicon-valley-internship-j1-visa/
21 comments
Having recently returned back to school after an 8mo internship in SF on a J1, your write-up sounds pretty much spot on! I'll make sure this gets added to our school's collection of documentation that gets sent out to co-ops going to SF/NY/etc. each term.
A couple of things worth mentioning, though:
- Rent at $1k/mo for rent is (now) hard to find unless you're living in a living room or a slum. Prices for my friends ranged from $1300(decent place w/ 2+ roomates) - $2000+(nice studio)
- We all had pretty decent experience staying in a student hotel/hostel upon immediately arriving in SF rather than relying on an airbnb or related. Places like the Herbert Hotel (http://theherberthotel.com/) are ~$1100/mo (can't confirm weekly/nightly rate) and are a great place to settle at first, but you shouldn't bank on staying there for long. Bonus: you've got a "hotel" booked once you arrive in SF (customs loves to hear this).
- As soon as you get to SF, join the ~"bay area interns group" on Facebook, invite the entire (2K+) group out for dinner wit hone post, and instantly meet 15+ new friends at once. It's definitely the best collection of smart, talented, cool kids I've ever come across and everyone is working on something cool (usually outside of work, too).
- Here's another great write up (targeted at UWaterloo co-ops, but still applicable): http://stephenholiday.com/Unofficial-Waterloo-USA-Intern-Gui...
Most importantly: someone PLEASE build a better product for visa sponsor companies (Intrax for me, CIEE/local rep for you) to streamline the J1 (and other visas, I'm sure) application process. I have never had a more frustrating experience going back and forth via email with so many different people at my sponsor company, having to upload identification and documents, print/fill out/scan/send forms, and bug them for the status of my visa application. The application fee was something my host company paid for without hesitation and would have paid more for to streamline. I've looked into this problem and would have built it myself if it weren't for the bureaucratic requirements req'd by the US gov't (which are fair, just hard to MVP) - ping me if you are interested in solving this problem :)
A couple of things worth mentioning, though:
- Rent at $1k/mo for rent is (now) hard to find unless you're living in a living room or a slum. Prices for my friends ranged from $1300(decent place w/ 2+ roomates) - $2000+(nice studio)
- We all had pretty decent experience staying in a student hotel/hostel upon immediately arriving in SF rather than relying on an airbnb or related. Places like the Herbert Hotel (http://theherberthotel.com/) are ~$1100/mo (can't confirm weekly/nightly rate) and are a great place to settle at first, but you shouldn't bank on staying there for long. Bonus: you've got a "hotel" booked once you arrive in SF (customs loves to hear this).
- As soon as you get to SF, join the ~"bay area interns group" on Facebook, invite the entire (2K+) group out for dinner wit hone post, and instantly meet 15+ new friends at once. It's definitely the best collection of smart, talented, cool kids I've ever come across and everyone is working on something cool (usually outside of work, too).
- Here's another great write up (targeted at UWaterloo co-ops, but still applicable): http://stephenholiday.com/Unofficial-Waterloo-USA-Intern-Gui...
Most importantly: someone PLEASE build a better product for visa sponsor companies (Intrax for me, CIEE/local rep for you) to streamline the J1 (and other visas, I'm sure) application process. I have never had a more frustrating experience going back and forth via email with so many different people at my sponsor company, having to upload identification and documents, print/fill out/scan/send forms, and bug them for the status of my visa application. The application fee was something my host company paid for without hesitation and would have paid more for to streamline. I've looked into this problem and would have built it myself if it weren't for the bureaucratic requirements req'd by the US gov't (which are fair, just hard to MVP) - ping me if you are interested in solving this problem :)
Thanks, I'll add some of these notes later. I was also pinged about UWaterloo's unofficial guide earlier today and it's listed in links, overall good stuff about living and practicalities.
I know that J1 process is relatively simple compared to other visa types but it still takes a lot of time. I originally wrote this guide as I couldn't find a good resource and I was the first student from my school to get the J1 for a startup internship.
I know that J1 process is relatively simple compared to other visa types but it still takes a lot of time. I originally wrote this guide as I couldn't find a good resource and I was the first student from my school to get the J1 for a startup internship.
I didn't see this point in the article, but I might have missed it:
On a J-1 visa you may have to return to your home country for 2 years after it expires -- you can only visit on tourist/student visas in those two years, not work in the US. I was subject to this, as a UK citizen interning in Redmond between undergraduate years (in 2002), but I have not met many other J-1 holders and don't know how common it was.
http://internationalaffairs.uchicago.edu/page/j-1-status-two...
On a J-1 visa you may have to return to your home country for 2 years after it expires -- you can only visit on tourist/student visas in those two years, not work in the US. I was subject to this, as a UK citizen interning in Redmond between undergraduate years (in 2002), but I have not met many other J-1 holders and don't know how common it was.
http://internationalaffairs.uchicago.edu/page/j-1-status-two...
This varies a lot depending on your exact situation. I interned in the bay area last year and it didn't apply to my case - and now I'm back on an H1 without any issues.
The 212-E 2 year home country requirement has 3 conditions [1]. Specifically, if you're interning, you do not fall under "Government funded exchange program", nor do you fall under "Graduate medical education or training". You may fall under "Specialized knowledge or skill: Skills List" but that list is on a per country basis. [2]
[1] http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/types/types_1267.html#15
[2] http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/types/types_4514.html
The 212-E 2 year home country requirement has 3 conditions [1]. Specifically, if you're interning, you do not fall under "Government funded exchange program", nor do you fall under "Graduate medical education or training". You may fall under "Specialized knowledge or skill: Skills List" but that list is on a per country basis. [2]
[1] http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/types/types_1267.html#15
[2] http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/types/types_4514.html
This is what is commonly known as Two Year Rule or 212(e) which is applicable to few different situations, e.g. if you get a grant from your government for your training or your profession is on your home country's skill list. It's also pretty random and I for example was stamped with the rule but many countries issues "no objection" letters which allow you to waive the requirement. Two year rule does only affect some visa types, such as H1b but not O1 or J1 visas.
Here's more information: http://www.isso.cornell.edu/academicstaff/jwaiver.php
Here's more information: http://www.isso.cornell.edu/academicstaff/jwaiver.php
The visa types it affects are generally those which allow immigrant intent. Non-immigrant intent visas are OK. The principle is that you're here for specialised training, and have to take the knowledge home before immigrating. But yeah, just check the small print (as with any immigration situation!).
I had a similar story.
And de facto I've heard such advice, but from a group of people - it's nice to see it grouped. I would add one point: you DON'T need a _local_ representative of CIEE. I did it with a US-based one, http://culturalvistas.org/ (I guess there are more).
Added a note about this. I think there's quite a lot of these but not sure how startup friendly most of them are.
What I find interesting though, is that OP went from interning at a YC company, to founding one. Would love to learn more about that process, and the visa situation throughout, since I don't think you can be founding companies and getting investment on a J1 visa.
I interned with a big company this summer that had an established J1 process (Microsoft), so didn't have to deal with a lot of these hassles - they organised the J1 visa and sent me SEVIS papers that I simply took to the embassy in London, and got my visa approved after a 2 minute interview. They organise housing and give you a rental car or bike based on your preference. The biggest worry for me was that they may incorrectly apply the 'home country physical presence' requirement, since India lists every single possible skill as wanted. Still, it's interesting to learn that the process is still doable for small startups without the same resources, in case I need it in the future.
I interned with a big company this summer that had an established J1 process (Microsoft), so didn't have to deal with a lot of these hassles - they organised the J1 visa and sent me SEVIS papers that I simply took to the embassy in London, and got my visa approved after a 2 minute interview. They organise housing and give you a rental car or bike based on your preference. The biggest worry for me was that they may incorrectly apply the 'home country physical presence' requirement, since India lists every single possible skill as wanted. Still, it's interesting to learn that the process is still doable for small startups without the same resources, in case I need it in the future.
I founded my own company after leaving my internship position and after my J1 ended. I'm on another visa now.
To my knowledge there's no limit to how many J1 visas one can have so you could do another one in the future. The process isn't complicated but a small startup probably doesn't have experience of it so you need to do the heavy lifting there.
To my knowledge there's no limit to how many J1 visas one can have so you could do another one in the future. The process isn't complicated but a small startup probably doesn't have experience of it so you need to do the heavy lifting there.
If I may ask you, what kind of visa do you have now? B or E? Or even something else?
At my university (Waterloo), this is a pretty good everything-you-need-to-know, but of course it's mainly for UWaterloo students (Canada) http://stephenholiday.com/Unofficial-Waterloo-USA-Intern-Gui...
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lol:) I have almost the same story:) You've done it well.. Good article, but there is also option to go for J1 Trainee program and its duration is up-to 18 months.
I'm aware of the Trainee program but little short on details as nobody I know has done it. Do you know if the requirements differ much or if there's any restrictions? Happy to update the article, I'm also adding a mention about Two Year Rule (212e) as it can affect future visas.
I did the J-1 trainee program for 18 months and went into an H1B from that. It was ideal for me because I came right out of school without work experience and it made the process very easy.
One downside was that I had to stay in the US between filing for H1B status and receiving it (you file in the spring, but get the status on October 1st) because the H1B is a dual intent visa (meaning you can state that you want to stay in the US permanently and it is not just a temporary visa) in case they questioned me at the border about the conflicting status of my J-1 and H1B petition.
One downside was that I had to stay in the US between filing for H1B status and receiving it (you file in the spring, but get the status on October 1st) because the H1B is a dual intent visa (meaning you can state that you want to stay in the US permanently and it is not just a temporary visa) in case they questioned me at the border about the conflicting status of my J-1 and H1B petition.
The J1 trainee program sounds really interesting (as I'm currently out of education for > 12 months and therefore ineligible for the J1 intern program).
According to the j1visa.state.gov site one of the requirements for the J1 trainee program is:
"Has five years of work experience outside the United States in the occupational field in which they are seeking training"
Did you meet this criteria or manage to circumvent it?
According to the j1visa.state.gov site one of the requirements for the J1 trainee program is:
"Has five years of work experience outside the United States in the occupational field in which they are seeking training"
Did you meet this criteria or manage to circumvent it?
I owned my own company throughout university so I just got letters of reference from customers (aka my friends) that vouched for the work I did.
Remember, rules are made to be.. um fitted to your needs.
Remember, rules are made to be.. um fitted to your needs.
There are some differences how the Department of State define both types of J1 Visa. More information can be found here: http://www.cci-exchange.com/work-programs-j1/career-advancem....
The Two Year Rule is mostly for 3rd world countries, the list can be found here:
http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/types/types_4514.html
Two Year Rule actually applies to all applicants if they are getting money from their government (e.g. a grant from school) but it seems pretty random who gets it or not. I got hit by it but at least my home country (Finland) gives waivers for it in case I ever need to apply for a H1b.
$4k/month for living expenses...is it that bad in SF? That's pretty good $ for much of the country, even some of the more expensive cities in the US.
Do not wait 'a few weeks' before trying to get a social security number. You do have to be in the country for 10 days before you can apply, but apply immediately after that.
You can't be paid without a social security number.
You can't be paid without a social security number.
As someone who interned on a J1, you don't need an SSN to be paid. You do need an SSN to file a tax return at the end of the year however.
Sure you can. You can get a TIN instead. Non-citizens shouldn't be able to get a SS number.
> Non-citizens shouldn't be able to get a SS number
...nope, anyone employed in the US can get a social number. If you are not employed, but still have some form of taxable income (i.e, a scholarship) you can get a taxpayer identification number instead.
Citizenship is not required for a SSN - trust me, I know!
...nope, anyone employed in the US can get a social number. If you are not employed, but still have some form of taxable income (i.e, a scholarship) you can get a taxpayer identification number instead.
Citizenship is not required for a SSN - trust me, I know!
This was a mistake from my part, corrected.
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>get at least $4k/mo to manage without savings
I'd love a $24/hr development position. Interns these days are getting paid too well. I interned for half as much and I'm not making much more.
I'd love a $24/hr development position. Interns these days are getting paid too well. I interned for half as much and I'm not making much more.
Many larger companies pay experienced interns fairly close to what they pay new graduates, which can easily end up being $40+ / hour.
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SF is really, really expensive.
I interned in SF and other than the rent, everything else is cheaper comparing to Canada. Aside from healthcare and education of course.
This is incredibly awesome! I will be reading and re-reading this article hopefully many times in 2014 as I embark upon the startup internship journey this year. Thanks so much!
Having just secured my own J1 visa, I can attest to how relatively easy it was.
Anyone have experience with getting consecutive J1-visas (different companies)?
Nice to see some talk on this subject other than about the notorious H-1B
The reason is that J-1s are very easy to obtain if you have a willing sponsor. There are companies that are setup to grant J-1s as a business.
You can easily do everything without a lawyer too. I paid for my initial 4 month work-travel visa for ~$400 USD.
H1B is a whole other story...
You can easily do everything without a lawyer too. I paid for my initial 4 month work-travel visa for ~$400 USD.
H1B is a whole other story...
I wonder how hard it is to get a TN visa (NAFTA)...
Fairly easy if your job description fits into one of the 13 designated jobs and you are from North America. Computer Systems Analyst and Graphic Designer are two that can work for startups - but whatever you do, do not include "programming" or "programmer" in your job description or tell the border agent you are a programmer. "Programming" or "programmer" is a huge red flag for the TN-1.
In fact, Microsoft brings on a lot of Canadian developers via TN Computer Systems Analyst and outright tells them to lie at the border and say they don't do any programming.
In fact, Microsoft brings on a lot of Canadian developers via TN Computer Systems Analyst and outright tells them to lie at the border and say they don't do any programming.
Great resource, thanks a lot!
Guybrush Threepwood FTW
What kind of visa do you hold right now jorde? I would really like to hear more about the path from J1 visa intern to startup founder.
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Signs of Cultural Adjustment Issues
“This country is really stupid…” - A common statement from trainees who are seeing a cultural trait of the United States through the experience of their own culture, not that of the U.S. A response might be, “Why do you suppose we’ve done that for the last 200 years?”
“English doesn’t have enough words…” - A common statement from trainees who cannot find a way to express emotions that are described in their native language, but not shared by the Anglo cultures.
“All I want to do is sleep…” – A common statement of depression brought on by the overload of change.
“I’m gaining a lot of weight…” – The change in food often results in weight gain. It is often difficult for trainees to understand how to use local and different foods for a healthy diet.
“Americans ask ‘How are you doing, but don’t really want to know…”– An accurate and common observation that may indicate the trainee is understanding what is said literally, but not hearing the underlying or cultural meaning.
“Why should I celebrate your holiday; I’m not American…” – A common attitude that could indicate the trainee is suffering a bit of cultural identity crisis.