Chiclet Keyboard on Upcoming Thinkpad X230?(forums.lenovo.com)
forums.lenovo.com
Chiclet Keyboard on Upcoming Thinkpad X230?
http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-ThinkPad-Laptops/X230-picture/td-p/731373
9 comments
The important (and unfortunate) difference is that this new keyboard breaks apart the ins/del/home/end/pgup/pgdown block.
That's a dealbreaker from a developer perspective. In fact it's the reason the new Thinkpad I just ordered is not an X1. The X1 is a nicer machine in every other respect, but it has a funky keyboard layout, so I can't use it for development without taking a big productivity hit.
That's a dealbreaker from a developer perspective. In fact it's the reason the new Thinkpad I just ordered is not an X1. The X1 is a nicer machine in every other respect, but it has a funky keyboard layout, so I can't use it for development without taking a big productivity hit.
I'm typing this on an Apple keyboard connected to a Macbook, sitting next to a Dell Vostro v131 and all 3 share this design trait. They are no Model M, but they are usable.
I still need to find a good way to make all computers on my desk share the Microsoft Natural and the Apple trackpad, but I'm not holding my breath.
I still need to find a good way to make all computers on my desk share the Microsoft Natural and the Apple trackpad, but I'm not holding my breath.
Something like this? https://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&... Plug your devices into a USB hub, then plug the hub into this. Then you can plug this device into both computers and switch between them with a single physical switch.
> They are no Model M
These guys own the rights to make the Model M: http://pckeyboard.com/
These guys own the rights to make the Model M: http://pckeyboard.com/
And the original moulds, as I understand.
Synergy is good...if you can get it to reliably work with your setup.
I came across this keyboard/mouse sharing software the other day and have yet to try it out but it looks much more promising than synergy and claims there is zero configuration. (works on windows and mac)
http://www.keyboard-and-mouse-sharing.com/
I came across this keyboard/mouse sharing software the other day and have yet to try it out but it looks much more promising than synergy and claims there is zero configuration. (works on windows and mac)
http://www.keyboard-and-mouse-sharing.com/
Have you tried Synergy? http://synergy-foss.org/
Synergy is quite good if you can make it work reliably with your setup. When I used it with my Mac as the server and my PC as the client, I ran into a bunch of issues such as modifier keys getting (virtually) stuck. Then I switched it around and made my PC the server and my Mac the client and a different set of problems arose. Luckily, there is an active discussion group and it's open-source, so if you were really keen on making it work, you could.
I've been fearing this. Boo.
The keyboard is one of the prime motivators for me to stay on ThinkPad. I guess if I don't beat the launch, I'll pick up a last-generation machine used -- hopefully at some discount -- and hope that it "lasts awhile".
I've been asking around, including on HN, whether anyone has experience with Lenovo's chicklet keyboards and whether they've managed to reduce if not remove the suck that I've experienced with other brands' chicklet keyboards.
P.S. I seem to recall seeing a story/photo implying that the T430 will have a chicklet keyboard, as well. Can anyone confirm or refute this?
The keyboard is one of the prime motivators for me to stay on ThinkPad. I guess if I don't beat the launch, I'll pick up a last-generation machine used -- hopefully at some discount -- and hope that it "lasts awhile".
I've been asking around, including on HN, whether anyone has experience with Lenovo's chicklet keyboards and whether they've managed to reduce if not remove the suck that I've experienced with other brands' chicklet keyboards.
P.S. I seem to recall seeing a story/photo implying that the T430 will have a chicklet keyboard, as well. Can anyone confirm or refute this?
> I've been asking around, including on HN, whether anyone has experience with Lenovo's chicklet keyboards and whether they've managed to reduce if not remove the suck that I've experienced with other brands' chicklet keyboards.
They are nothing like normal chiclet keyboards.
I too hate chiclet keyboards. I hate laptop keyboards in general. But this keyboard is not as bad as I expected, and if anything, potentially better than the old ThinkPad keyboard.
First off, there is zero sway in the keys. They're typical ThinkPad stiff and sturdy. The travel is the right distance, so is the resistance of the keys. They're so tight that when I was swapping the Ctrl and Fn keys on my X120e, I felt that I was going to shatter them trying to get the keys off. They just wouldn't budge.
And the bigger reason I like these keyboards is, they have curvature, unlike every other chiclet I've ever used.
Most chiclets on PC laptops have zero curvature. Just completely flat, terrible. I can't find my way to the center of the keys, and it makes me furious when I start to typo because of it.
The recent MacBooks are 'okay', but they still don't have enough curvature. It's barely even noticeable, and I typo on MBP keyboards all the time.
You can see the amount of curvature in this picture: http://www.thinkpads.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/lenovo_t...
But I do recommend trying it out yourself. I'm still not sold on chiclet keyboards, but at least Lenovo didn't cheap out and make a crappy one.
They are nothing like normal chiclet keyboards.
I too hate chiclet keyboards. I hate laptop keyboards in general. But this keyboard is not as bad as I expected, and if anything, potentially better than the old ThinkPad keyboard.
First off, there is zero sway in the keys. They're typical ThinkPad stiff and sturdy. The travel is the right distance, so is the resistance of the keys. They're so tight that when I was swapping the Ctrl and Fn keys on my X120e, I felt that I was going to shatter them trying to get the keys off. They just wouldn't budge.
And the bigger reason I like these keyboards is, they have curvature, unlike every other chiclet I've ever used.
Most chiclets on PC laptops have zero curvature. Just completely flat, terrible. I can't find my way to the center of the keys, and it makes me furious when I start to typo because of it.
The recent MacBooks are 'okay', but they still don't have enough curvature. It's barely even noticeable, and I typo on MBP keyboards all the time.
You can see the amount of curvature in this picture: http://www.thinkpads.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/lenovo_t...
But I do recommend trying it out yourself. I'm still not sold on chiclet keyboards, but at least Lenovo didn't cheap out and make a crappy one.
Thank you. I'd noticed the appearance of that curvature in some photos.
I'm hoping that I'll find what you described. Good travel and feel. Equal performance when the key is struck off-center. A tactile feel that keeps my fingers positioned and facilitates rapid typing. Keys that don't bottom out at or below the surrounding surface, forcing the user to type "into wells".
However, I still find it hard to convince myself I'll like them.
But... as you say, I'll give it a try. Before purchasing.
Remaining outstanding, my hope that they won't also follow other laptop manufacturers in introducing the "giant shelf" in front of the keyboard, and/or a sharp front edge to same. I can't stand how those press into my wrists particularly when I'm working on a surface that I cannot set to an optimal/ergonomic height (cafe table, conference room table, etc.). (And yes, I've griped about this before, as well. ;-)
I'm hoping that I'll find what you described. Good travel and feel. Equal performance when the key is struck off-center. A tactile feel that keeps my fingers positioned and facilitates rapid typing. Keys that don't bottom out at or below the surrounding surface, forcing the user to type "into wells".
However, I still find it hard to convince myself I'll like them.
But... as you say, I'll give it a try. Before purchasing.
Remaining outstanding, my hope that they won't also follow other laptop manufacturers in introducing the "giant shelf" in front of the keyboard, and/or a sharp front edge to same. I can't stand how those press into my wrists particularly when I'm working on a surface that I cannot set to an optimal/ergonomic height (cafe table, conference room table, etc.). (And yes, I've griped about this before, as well. ;-)
They're still not as good as real full-height keyboards, and while they're the best chiclet keyboard I've ever used, I'm not 100% certain I would ever choose them over the old IBM keyboards, or my favorite, the PowerBook G4 keyboard.
But they're not bad, and I definitely don't have a problem with typing on them for extended periods of time. I've spend entire weekends using my X120e, and the keyboard was never annoying or disruptive to my typing.
If this is going to be your primary computer, I wouldn't commit until I've definitely tried them for a while. I actually spent like 30min+ typing on various demo computers at the local shop, just to get a comparable feel. They had multiple Lenovo laptops, and while yea, the big full size keyboard was great, the chiclet keyboard wasn't a problem.
Another reason I bought my X120e is Lenovo didn't skimp out on key size, whereas most netbooks would. All the keys were full size.
So do I regret my decision? No, thankfully.
But they're not bad, and I definitely don't have a problem with typing on them for extended periods of time. I've spend entire weekends using my X120e, and the keyboard was never annoying or disruptive to my typing.
If this is going to be your primary computer, I wouldn't commit until I've definitely tried them for a while. I actually spent like 30min+ typing on various demo computers at the local shop, just to get a comparable feel. They had multiple Lenovo laptops, and while yea, the big full size keyboard was great, the chiclet keyboard wasn't a problem.
Another reason I bought my X120e is Lenovo didn't skimp out on key size, whereas most netbooks would. All the keys were full size.
So do I regret my decision? No, thankfully.
This seems to be a trend with Thinkpads. They have a tendency to remove the best features of their best models when they update to the next generation.
Think of the X60 -> X220 transition. They took an amazing little road machine and squished the screen so far that it's pretty much useless for anything but playing movies. I certainly wouldn't want to see how many lines of code I could fit into 768 pixels, especially given how nice the X60/61 was with its proper 4:3 display.
So here we are, six years later and I'm still buying refurbished X60s off eBay to use as my dev box on the road. If they'd put out something similar today, they'd have another $2k of my money (several times over by now, in fact).
Think of the X60 -> X220 transition. They took an amazing little road machine and squished the screen so far that it's pretty much useless for anything but playing movies. I certainly wouldn't want to see how many lines of code I could fit into 768 pixels, especially given how nice the X60/61 was with its proper 4:3 display.
So here we are, six years later and I'm still buying refurbished X60s off eBay to use as my dev box on the road. If they'd put out something similar today, they'd have another $2k of my money (several times over by now, in fact).
I'm on a T42 that is a secondary "learning" machine. I've thought about buying a T6★, but then figured I should just put the money towards a new machine when I next purchase.
Maybe I should reconsider buying a T6★?
P.S. The T42 is the first laptop keyboard I've been comfortable with in about the last 10 years. And while my particular model is underpowered in the discrete graphics department, the display is pretty darned fine to look at -- in both dimensions.
Maybe I should reconsider buying a T6★?
P.S. The T42 is the first laptop keyboard I've been comfortable with in about the last 10 years. And while my particular model is underpowered in the discrete graphics department, the display is pretty darned fine to look at -- in both dimensions.
The X200s has a 1440x900 screen. Well worth the extra $. Still waiting for Lenovo to release a new model with a comparable or better screen (it's been 3 years...really disappointed in them at this point.) I'm still using my X200s on a daily basis.
I own a ThinkPad X120e with one of these keyboards. Unlike the MacBook keyboard, the new ThinkPad keyboard is very stiff and sturdy with no sway. It's surprising just how sturdy they feel, despite looking so weak.
But the bigger selling point is, the keys have curvature.
And that's important for any touch typist, and the reason I chose the X120e over every other netbook/ultrabook I tried.
But the bigger selling point is, the keys have curvature.
And that's important for any touch typist, and the reason I chose the X120e over every other netbook/ultrabook I tried.
I've never understood the draw to this. I can type really quickly and I don't understand how curvature impacts typing performance. I thought that touch typists rely on muscle memory for spacing rather than the feel of the keys. Normally I use a Model M, but when I switch to my MBA, I don't really have any issues.
I've already bought one in my head :)
Is appears the resolution is the same as the x220 at 1366x768. Are you planning on using it for dev work?
Yes definitely.
Why does it sound like you think I'm insane?
I'm sitting in front of a T61 at the moment at 1280x800 and I prefer it to my 2x 22" 1600x1200 screens in the office (one of which is permanently turned off).
I have VS2010, SQL2008 Mgmt studio, Word, Excel, 2 different browsers, Outlook and 3 RDP connections open. It's fine.
Why does it sound like you think I'm insane?
I'm sitting in front of a T61 at the moment at 1280x800 and I prefer it to my 2x 22" 1600x1200 screens in the office (one of which is permanently turned off).
I have VS2010, SQL2008 Mgmt studio, Word, Excel, 2 different browsers, Outlook and 3 RDP connections open. It's fine.
I have a hard time working on something thats less than 2560x1440. I use a dell 30" @ 2560x1600 at the office with my macbook screen (1680x1050) as my secondary display. At home I hook the macbook up to my imac display (2560x1440) and use that with my macbook as my secondary display.
Here's a tip for dealing with a small dev machine:
Try sitting at a table in a sand-floored bar with a good thatch roof to keep light levels down, but a good view of the beach and the sea. Tonsai beach in Thailand is my personal preference, but you can probably make it work at any little beach community with good wifi and cheap bungalows to rent.
Notice how owning a 3 pound machine that you can fit comfortably into a tiny backpack suddenly seems like a much better idea. You might even wonder why you need to keep an apartment back home capable of containing a 30" monitor. For the same rent payments, you could just stay here indefinitely.
Naturally, if you don't have a beach to use it from, the tiny road machine makes somewhat less sense. Good thing that, as developers, we're in of of the few professions where we get to choose whether to add that beach to our dev setup.
Try sitting at a table in a sand-floored bar with a good thatch roof to keep light levels down, but a good view of the beach and the sea. Tonsai beach in Thailand is my personal preference, but you can probably make it work at any little beach community with good wifi and cheap bungalows to rent.
Notice how owning a 3 pound machine that you can fit comfortably into a tiny backpack suddenly seems like a much better idea. You might even wonder why you need to keep an apartment back home capable of containing a 30" monitor. For the same rent payments, you could just stay here indefinitely.
Naturally, if you don't have a beach to use it from, the tiny road machine makes somewhat less sense. Good thing that, as developers, we're in of of the few professions where we get to choose whether to add that beach to our dev setup.
i develop fine on mine. i really think this is just personal preference / acculturation - for years i also used a 17" monitor on my desktop. while i now have 1900x1200 there i don't feel more productive for it - i just don't jump between desktops like i used to (in fact, i just realised i can't remember what the keyboard shortcuts are for doing so!).
in particular, with intellij idea, i feel like i have hit a sweet spot matching the layout to the screen - i have the project tree / leiningen / find window on the left, source in the middle, and run / repl / debug on the right. it works really well in the x220 window shape.
that doesn't mean i don't wish the screen were bigger / squarer. i preferred my old x60 and i am very concerned about the keyboard - the keys are the best thing by far on this.
in particular, with intellij idea, i feel like i have hit a sweet spot matching the layout to the screen - i have the project tree / leiningen / find window on the left, source in the middle, and run / repl / debug on the right. it works really well in the x220 window shape.
that doesn't mean i don't wish the screen were bigger / squarer. i preferred my old x60 and i am very concerned about the keyboard - the keys are the best thing by far on this.
Did anyone grab the picture?
That is well known by now, here [1] is an article explaining the advantages of the so called chiclet keyboard (given that this is no marketing idea)
Here probably a picture of the X230 [2]
[1] http://blog.lenovo.com/design/thinkpad-x1-designing-the-ulti...
[2] http://images.tweaktown.com/news/2/3/23890_09_spotted_lenovo...
Here probably a picture of the X230 [2]
[1] http://blog.lenovo.com/design/thinkpad-x1-designing-the-ulti...
[2] http://images.tweaktown.com/news/2/3/23890_09_spotted_lenovo...
The Thinkpad keyboard is a significant asset. It's the primary thing that keeps me a customer (though the high build quality is also a factor).
I can deal with a change in the mechanics (oh how I miss the 300 series but I adapted to that change) but mess with the layout and I'm gone. Probably to a Mac running Linux (though trackpoint might just keep me on Thinkpad/Sony/Dell for now).
Edit addendum: If I were to go through the pain of adapting to a new laptop keyboard layout (maybe even abandoning the trackpoint), whose ought I to choose and why? I'm assuming that ${vendor} support a big enough range that mere technology features aren't relevant :-)
I can deal with a change in the mechanics (oh how I miss the 300 series but I adapted to that change) but mess with the layout and I'm gone. Probably to a Mac running Linux (though trackpoint might just keep me on Thinkpad/Sony/Dell for now).
Edit addendum: If I were to go through the pain of adapting to a new laptop keyboard layout (maybe even abandoning the trackpoint), whose ought I to choose and why? I'm assuming that ${vendor} support a big enough range that mere technology features aren't relevant :-)
As a long-time Thinkpad user and keyboard fan, I'm still finding it hard to care. If anyone is looking for a working image [2]:
http://images.tweaktown.com.nyud.net/news/2/3/23890_09_spott...
Unfortunately the image in the original post seems to have been taken down. Is this really the same keyboard you reference in your post?
If so, I have it on the computer I'm using to type this--a Lenovo X200s from 3+ years ago. (Still waiting for Lenovo to figure out how to cram 1440x900 into a 12" screen like they did on this laptop.) I vastly prefer this keyboard to my fiance's Macbook Air.
However, if the keyboard is the same as the one I have on my 3-year-old Lenovo, I'm not sure why this is "news".
If so, I have it on the computer I'm using to type this--a Lenovo X200s from 3+ years ago. (Still waiting for Lenovo to figure out how to cram 1440x900 into a 12" screen like they did on this laptop.) I vastly prefer this keyboard to my fiance's Macbook Air.
However, if the keyboard is the same as the one I have on my 3-year-old Lenovo, I'm not sure why this is "news".
The x200s does not have the keyboard in question, it has the classic thinkpad keyboard. The new keyboard is seen on some new lenovo models, most notably the thinkpad edge series.
I'm looking at it right now and it has both the rounded-bottom keys and the contoured keys (there's a "divot" in each key where your finger can sit comfortably.)
http://techreport.com/discussions.x/22838