Ask HN: I’m 41 and still unmarried – what should I do?
681 comments
One of my ex-girlfriends had a list of twenty things she required in a mate. I met 19 of them. She left. I met an amazing woman a couple of years later (at 43). We’re married and have an amazing 13 yo daughter. My ex is still single.
Maybe examine your standards. And I do mean this in a constructive way, by way of perhaps helping to troubleshoot. The way you describe your experience above, you present as high-expectation which though not needy can be high-maintenance in a different way. Maybe that’s true and maybe not, I don’t know you. My point is, the presentation is important.
Before the first date with my wife, we chatted for 3-1/2 hrs on okcupid. That we could hold a conversation that long made me optimistic about dating her. She chose the location for our first date. It was a noisy hangout bar and I could barely hear her. I asked for the check before she finished her food, my hope crushed. Why would someone choose a place like that to get to know someone? I’m walking to the car, dreading the ride back to her place when she asks if I’d like some ice cream. We went to Cold Stone and talked for about 5 hours.
Later in our relationship, we needed our communication skills to work through various conflicts. Even though we have high consensus about parenting, we don’t always see eye to eye. My point there, if you expect to find the perfect mate, also expect to be disappointed. What makes a relationship is the willingness to work through challenges.
Maybe examine your standards. And I do mean this in a constructive way, by way of perhaps helping to troubleshoot. The way you describe your experience above, you present as high-expectation which though not needy can be high-maintenance in a different way. Maybe that’s true and maybe not, I don’t know you. My point is, the presentation is important.
Before the first date with my wife, we chatted for 3-1/2 hrs on okcupid. That we could hold a conversation that long made me optimistic about dating her. She chose the location for our first date. It was a noisy hangout bar and I could barely hear her. I asked for the check before she finished her food, my hope crushed. Why would someone choose a place like that to get to know someone? I’m walking to the car, dreading the ride back to her place when she asks if I’d like some ice cream. We went to Cold Stone and talked for about 5 hours.
Later in our relationship, we needed our communication skills to work through various conflicts. Even though we have high consensus about parenting, we don’t always see eye to eye. My point there, if you expect to find the perfect mate, also expect to be disappointed. What makes a relationship is the willingness to work through challenges.
> My time for having children is running out.
> Please encouragement only, no discouragement. I’m discouraged enough already.
IMHO, that's exactly the problem. Bear with me for a sec.
Unless you find someone who has the exact same objective and wants to have kids asap (i.e., a more transactional relationship), this will always be a major turn off. Your partner will feel pressured to make a decision quickly, and sooner or later will think the main thing you want is their sperm to have a baby. That's a recipe for folks to back off. Even if you believe you're not putting pressure, I bet they can smell it a mile away. It has a direct impact on your mindset, your behavior, and self-confidence, even if you believe you're effective in masking it.
It may sound counter intuitive, but once you stop trying "to find someone to marry and have kids", you may actually find someone.
The first step is to start accepting yourself and your life as it is -- and being proud of being single and having no kids. It is what it is. Cut the bullshit of dating coaches, hundred dates, dozen of books, and all the mental energy you're wasting obsessing about it. Give up the serial dating, and immerse yourself in work, or a cause you care about, sports, gym, hobbies, church, or whatever suits your fancy. Sure, make new friends and go on dates, but not because you want to "find love and build a family", but because you want to have fun and enjoy having sex every now and then.
Once you do it - truly do it - you'll be seen as more attractive, more powerful, successful, confident, remarkable, independent. You won't need anyone on your side to be the best version of yourself. And there's nothing more f*ing attractive than that.
Pragmatically speaking, you've already frozen your eggs, so you have a plan B for later. For now, internalize that you are enough. Once you accept it, everything else will follow.
> Please encouragement only, no discouragement. I’m discouraged enough already.
IMHO, that's exactly the problem. Bear with me for a sec.
Unless you find someone who has the exact same objective and wants to have kids asap (i.e., a more transactional relationship), this will always be a major turn off. Your partner will feel pressured to make a decision quickly, and sooner or later will think the main thing you want is their sperm to have a baby. That's a recipe for folks to back off. Even if you believe you're not putting pressure, I bet they can smell it a mile away. It has a direct impact on your mindset, your behavior, and self-confidence, even if you believe you're effective in masking it.
It may sound counter intuitive, but once you stop trying "to find someone to marry and have kids", you may actually find someone.
The first step is to start accepting yourself and your life as it is -- and being proud of being single and having no kids. It is what it is. Cut the bullshit of dating coaches, hundred dates, dozen of books, and all the mental energy you're wasting obsessing about it. Give up the serial dating, and immerse yourself in work, or a cause you care about, sports, gym, hobbies, church, or whatever suits your fancy. Sure, make new friends and go on dates, but not because you want to "find love and build a family", but because you want to have fun and enjoy having sex every now and then.
Once you do it - truly do it - you'll be seen as more attractive, more powerful, successful, confident, remarkable, independent. You won't need anyone on your side to be the best version of yourself. And there's nothing more f*ing attractive than that.
Pragmatically speaking, you've already frozen your eggs, so you have a plan B for later. For now, internalize that you are enough. Once you accept it, everything else will follow.
Dating is only one way to find someone, it's definitely not the only way.
I'm not American and nobody I know in a committed relationship, not a single one (even the Americans I know), met their partner through dating (where I'm defining "dating" as meeting with strangers or near-strangers with the intent of evaluating a possible romantic connection).
For the most part, my own relationship and the relationships around me started as friendships. People encounter others organically, through some hobby, club, group, event with a mutual friend or something like that. They talk a bit, they (platonically) like each other, they (platonically) hang out just because they enjoy each other's company.
Only after properly getting to know each other (think years, not weeks or months) is romance considered.
So I'd suggest that instead of going broad but incredibly shallow with over a hundred meetings with strangers, try going narrow but deep. Try to make a few male friends that you know and feel comfortable with and see if you find yourself wanting more from any of them.
Even if you don't find romance from any of them, you end up with more friends. They likely have friends of their own that you can also befriend and the cycle continues.
I'm not American and nobody I know in a committed relationship, not a single one (even the Americans I know), met their partner through dating (where I'm defining "dating" as meeting with strangers or near-strangers with the intent of evaluating a possible romantic connection).
For the most part, my own relationship and the relationships around me started as friendships. People encounter others organically, through some hobby, club, group, event with a mutual friend or something like that. They talk a bit, they (platonically) like each other, they (platonically) hang out just because they enjoy each other's company.
Only after properly getting to know each other (think years, not weeks or months) is romance considered.
So I'd suggest that instead of going broad but incredibly shallow with over a hundred meetings with strangers, try going narrow but deep. Try to make a few male friends that you know and feel comfortable with and see if you find yourself wanting more from any of them.
Even if you don't find romance from any of them, you end up with more friends. They likely have friends of their own that you can also befriend and the cycle continues.
This post is framed as a laundry list of the things you've tried, but there's no information about your interactions with the men you dated. So I'm curious about what prevented those 120 dates from progressing forward.
How many different men did you go on the 120 dates with? How many men asked for second or third dates? Of these, how many did you accept? How many men did you ask for a second date? Assuming you get a second or third date, what typically ends the relationship?
There's really too little to go on here, but I've found a few common themes among other people who struggle with dating:
- They overrate their value on the dating market and set their sights on people out of their league.
- They're attracted to people who are bad fits in other ways. They may focus on winning over people who just aren't interested in them. Or they're attracted to people who have no intention of settling down with anyone. (EDIT: You wrote below that you set you're range from 30-50. That seems like a good sign that you're not being overly picky. Although, I would wager most 30 year old men setting up online dates with 40 year old women are looking for sex and not marriage).
- They spread themselves too thin, begin treating people like a commodity, and don't put effort into developing meaningful relationships, instead jumping from date to date hoping for love at first sight. You might be playing it like a numbers game, and that can be antithetical to building relationships. Online dating can make it worse, since it's so easy to just move on to the next person.
Also, it's unfortunately just much harder to date at 40+. The people who want to be married often are married by that age. You'll catch people on the rebound from divorces, but they're not always ready to jump back into a marriage. It's not impossible, it's just harder.
EDIT: I just thought of an online dating suggestion from my own experience. Use recent photos that are flattering but realistic. When I was in my mid-30s, I my hair began thinning and I didn't update my photos because I was so self-conscious. And as my hair loss progressed, my dates started going worse and worse. When a woman called me out on it, I finally updated my photos. After that, my dates had realistic expectations and I was no longer losing their trust right off the bat, and things improved immediately.
How many different men did you go on the 120 dates with? How many men asked for second or third dates? Of these, how many did you accept? How many men did you ask for a second date? Assuming you get a second or third date, what typically ends the relationship?
There's really too little to go on here, but I've found a few common themes among other people who struggle with dating:
- They overrate their value on the dating market and set their sights on people out of their league.
- They're attracted to people who are bad fits in other ways. They may focus on winning over people who just aren't interested in them. Or they're attracted to people who have no intention of settling down with anyone. (EDIT: You wrote below that you set you're range from 30-50. That seems like a good sign that you're not being overly picky. Although, I would wager most 30 year old men setting up online dates with 40 year old women are looking for sex and not marriage).
- They spread themselves too thin, begin treating people like a commodity, and don't put effort into developing meaningful relationships, instead jumping from date to date hoping for love at first sight. You might be playing it like a numbers game, and that can be antithetical to building relationships. Online dating can make it worse, since it's so easy to just move on to the next person.
Also, it's unfortunately just much harder to date at 40+. The people who want to be married often are married by that age. You'll catch people on the rebound from divorces, but they're not always ready to jump back into a marriage. It's not impossible, it's just harder.
EDIT: I just thought of an online dating suggestion from my own experience. Use recent photos that are flattering but realistic. When I was in my mid-30s, I my hair began thinning and I didn't update my photos because I was so self-conscious. And as my hair loss progressed, my dates started going worse and worse. When a woman called me out on it, I finally updated my photos. After that, my dates had realistic expectations and I was no longer losing their trust right off the bat, and things improved immediately.
I know many educated, intelligent, attractive, kind 40 something women. Who also say they want to get married. But, are searching for a unicorn. And will not lower their unreasonable standards. Because, their dream guy doesn’t exist.
Some dealbreaker’s of their’s - never married no kids degree makes 6 figures texan (even though she is in colorado) makes 7-8 figures a year (I kid you not, $1-10M / yr) dog lover vegan wants kids
The list continues for these women. There will always be some ‘red flag’, that disqualifies their potential partner.
Meanwhile, a man just wants - attractive, good in bed, and it’d be nice if she cooks.
Today, women want it all. I don’t think men are built to be the perfect partner and best friend.
Some dealbreaker’s of their’s - never married no kids degree makes 6 figures texan (even though she is in colorado) makes 7-8 figures a year (I kid you not, $1-10M / yr) dog lover vegan wants kids
The list continues for these women. There will always be some ‘red flag’, that disqualifies their potential partner.
Meanwhile, a man just wants - attractive, good in bed, and it’d be nice if she cooks.
Today, women want it all. I don’t think men are built to be the perfect partner and best friend.
You should look for men who are divorced or widowers, because 41 is 41. I know you said “no discouragement” but perhaps that is one of your issues. People who lie to you to avoid hurting your feelings are not necessarily doing you a favor. Very few men who are not in the 2nd hand category or are themselves in their 50s or older are going to be even interested. Your other issue is most men who are not in those categories will feign serious interest just to screw you, after which you will be ignored. That is what a couple of my wife’s friends who are in this category often struggle with. So, my suggestion is to restrict your search to second-hand men.
The biggest lie told in western society is that a woman can either have it all or that getting married/mom is being oppressed.
So the story is now for a woman to work hard, go to school, work / become a “boss bi*” and be independent. Don’t need a man! You go girl!
So this woman reaches a local maxima in career and by her 30s starts to question the narrative she’s bought into. Except Father Time has taken its toll, and what was once a healthy fruitful person is slowly turning into a dry fruit.
A successful career woman, will want to find a partner who’s her equal or better. So she’s now targeting someone who’s:
mid-30s+ * at same income or higher * single
Except this dreamy man who fits the criteria is looking for :
* woman in 20s * income ? Who cares?
So now our boss lady is left sad and mad at the false narrative she’s been fed her whole life. A couple more years pass and whatever fake dreams of “I heard IVF is really good now!” Are long gone.
Free lunches don’t exist.
So the story is now for a woman to work hard, go to school, work / become a “boss bi*” and be independent. Don’t need a man! You go girl!
So this woman reaches a local maxima in career and by her 30s starts to question the narrative she’s bought into. Except Father Time has taken its toll, and what was once a healthy fruitful person is slowly turning into a dry fruit.
A successful career woman, will want to find a partner who’s her equal or better. So she’s now targeting someone who’s:
mid-30s+ * at same income or higher * single
Except this dreamy man who fits the criteria is looking for :
* woman in 20s * income ? Who cares?
So now our boss lady is left sad and mad at the false narrative she’s been fed her whole life. A couple more years pass and whatever fake dreams of “I heard IVF is really good now!” Are long gone.
Free lunches don’t exist.
I am a man who dated many women casually via online dating, until I decided to settle down (wrote about this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31021578), so I think I can bring a somewhat relevant perspective.
Based on my experience, dating is absolutely a market driven by a typical economy of supply and demand, and the supply of "good enough" men who want to settle down with a woman is virtually unlimited for virtually any woman out there, in virtually any major US metro area. This means that the problem might be in yourself, and my guess is:
- Men perceive you as "weirdo". For example, going on a first date and immediately stating that you are looking to have kids since your time is "running out" would be a red flag even to the most desperate men.
- (I bet my money on this) You are too picky, even if you don't think you are, and the only men you're interested in are the ones who have an overwhelming abundance of choice (e.g. top 5% in terms of earning, looks, status), and as such are not in any pressure to settle down with you.
Based on my experience, dating is absolutely a market driven by a typical economy of supply and demand, and the supply of "good enough" men who want to settle down with a woman is virtually unlimited for virtually any woman out there, in virtually any major US metro area. This means that the problem might be in yourself, and my guess is:
- Men perceive you as "weirdo". For example, going on a first date and immediately stating that you are looking to have kids since your time is "running out" would be a red flag even to the most desperate men.
- (I bet my money on this) You are too picky, even if you don't think you are, and the only men you're interested in are the ones who have an overwhelming abundance of choice (e.g. top 5% in terms of earning, looks, status), and as such are not in any pressure to settle down with you.
> I’ve deeply invested myself in therapy, support groups, meditation, dating coaching, yoga and hypnotism.
I’ve known plenty of my female friends who were so aggressively “fixing” and improving themselves, that they even didn’t notice how big their ego had become.
Their whole life was revolving around Me Me Me, I want to be perfect, I want a perfect marriage, I want a perfect husband, I am perfect, I I I…
It’s hard to explain, but from the side it was obvious for me why men kept avoiding them, which perpetuated the vicious circle of “self-improvement”.
No sane man or woman would want a partner obsessed with his ego.
No matter how fit, smart and beautiful the partner is.
I don’t know if it has anything to do with your situation (for that I’d need to know you in person at least) — but I see the described pattern in many women (and men too) around me. So maybe it was useful for someone.
I’ve known plenty of my female friends who were so aggressively “fixing” and improving themselves, that they even didn’t notice how big their ego had become.
Their whole life was revolving around Me Me Me, I want to be perfect, I want a perfect marriage, I want a perfect husband, I am perfect, I I I…
It’s hard to explain, but from the side it was obvious for me why men kept avoiding them, which perpetuated the vicious circle of “self-improvement”.
No sane man or woman would want a partner obsessed with his ego.
No matter how fit, smart and beautiful the partner is.
I don’t know if it has anything to do with your situation (for that I’d need to know you in person at least) — but I see the described pattern in many women (and men too) around me. So maybe it was useful for someone.
My two cents, and I’m no expert…
Trying too hard is unattractive and unsuccessful. Many guys get spooked by someone who is on a short timeline to get married. They’re doing you the favor backing out early. This isn’t an accomplishment that one checks off like getting into the right school, or running a marathon.
Do things you like to do. Find your tribe. Be open to meeting people in that tribe as friends first.
You’re also in a bit of a demographic trap because men yourr age can date women from 25-50. Is your range that wide? If not, open your boundaries for what is considered acceptable (age, profession, already having kids, etc) if the interest and respect is there.
Good luck!
Trying too hard is unattractive and unsuccessful. Many guys get spooked by someone who is on a short timeline to get married. They’re doing you the favor backing out early. This isn’t an accomplishment that one checks off like getting into the right school, or running a marathon.
Do things you like to do. Find your tribe. Be open to meeting people in that tribe as friends first.
You’re also in a bit of a demographic trap because men yourr age can date women from 25-50. Is your range that wide? If not, open your boundaries for what is considered acceptable (age, profession, already having kids, etc) if the interest and respect is there.
Good luck!
If you've only been doing it for two years... it may just not be long enough. I'm so sorry that's the case, but it seems to be. Also, you say a lot about yourself, but not a lot about what makes someone a "marriageable man". What are your criteria? Who are you looking for? Clearly you have a lot of people who seem like good candidates, so what rules them out?
My own anecdata is that it took me about three years of seriously looking - in my mid twenties - to find the person I'm now married to. She was my first and only successful date from Bumble in two years of using that app. I had done everything else: met people through my faith, through social events, used all the other apps, on and on and on.
Then, when we did meet, it was like lightning. It was one of the most bizarre experiences I have ever had, because I was completely convinced the kind of falling in love I experienced was a) impossible and b) would never be requited, and yet it was happening to me. It still makes my heart flutter thinking about it. I've spoken to my wife about it and she felt and still feels the same way. Within maybe a few hours of meeting each other, we both suspected, and after a couple of months we knew for sure. Like you, I had dated a lot of people, and many of them fit most or all of my personal criteria, and I theirs, but they weren't the right fit for reasons I couldn't quite explain. I don't think that means my wife is "the One" or anything - there is no such thing - but I have never met anyone else I'm not related to by blood with whom I've shared this kind of connection and a romantic intent.
It's incredibly tough and painful to search for that needle in a haystack, and I'm sorry you're going through it. But I believe it's possible to find for the vast majority of people.
I could write a lot more on this subject, but this has probably been poetical enough for now. I hope this helps.
My own anecdata is that it took me about three years of seriously looking - in my mid twenties - to find the person I'm now married to. She was my first and only successful date from Bumble in two years of using that app. I had done everything else: met people through my faith, through social events, used all the other apps, on and on and on.
Then, when we did meet, it was like lightning. It was one of the most bizarre experiences I have ever had, because I was completely convinced the kind of falling in love I experienced was a) impossible and b) would never be requited, and yet it was happening to me. It still makes my heart flutter thinking about it. I've spoken to my wife about it and she felt and still feels the same way. Within maybe a few hours of meeting each other, we both suspected, and after a couple of months we knew for sure. Like you, I had dated a lot of people, and many of them fit most or all of my personal criteria, and I theirs, but they weren't the right fit for reasons I couldn't quite explain. I don't think that means my wife is "the One" or anything - there is no such thing - but I have never met anyone else I'm not related to by blood with whom I've shared this kind of connection and a romantic intent.
It's incredibly tough and painful to search for that needle in a haystack, and I'm sorry you're going through it. But I believe it's possible to find for the vast majority of people.
I could write a lot more on this subject, but this has probably been poetical enough for now. I hope this helps.
I'm same age and a woman (but lesbian). My perspective is different though but I do understand.
My advice - don't focus on the end goal. Which seems to be multiple: - Be married - Have kids - Be in love
Those goals are all achievable by themselves and each one leads you toward the holy trinity.
Meet people that you can connect with. As a nerd who loves data analysis, you have 120 dates of data you can look into to determine trends. What was the good/bad parts of each date? That might help narrow things down for the future dates.
A lot of men are looking for atleast one of those (sometimes all of the above), but I've seen my male friends get overwhelmed for a lack of a better term when faced with all of them at once.
I know that's not the quick fix advice you want but I think that's the honest truth. There's lots of men out there.
Freezing your eggs is a possibility but I can understand the challenges/reluctance in that.
Good luck and I hope you will come back to this post in a year and add "PS. I found the love of my life and we're having twins!"
My advice - don't focus on the end goal. Which seems to be multiple: - Be married - Have kids - Be in love
Those goals are all achievable by themselves and each one leads you toward the holy trinity.
Meet people that you can connect with. As a nerd who loves data analysis, you have 120 dates of data you can look into to determine trends. What was the good/bad parts of each date? That might help narrow things down for the future dates.
A lot of men are looking for atleast one of those (sometimes all of the above), but I've seen my male friends get overwhelmed for a lack of a better term when faced with all of them at once.
I know that's not the quick fix advice you want but I think that's the honest truth. There's lots of men out there.
Freezing your eggs is a possibility but I can understand the challenges/reluctance in that.
Good luck and I hope you will come back to this post in a year and add "PS. I found the love of my life and we're having twins!"
You're not going to like it, but I think the men you usually find attractive are out of your league
Also, unfortunately, in today's society, high value men have less incentive to settle down. That is sad. Someone desirable to you, probably is for many other girls too, and they know that
You might be a great person/woman, but might have something turning down people as well... I can't say. We, internet strangers, can't help without knowing you
Also, unfortunately, in today's society, high value men have less incentive to settle down. That is sad. Someone desirable to you, probably is for many other girls too, and they know that
You might be a great person/woman, but might have something turning down people as well... I can't say. We, internet strangers, can't help without knowing you
Personally, I don’t believe dates work for love. For lust, attraction, and curiosity/discovery, sure. But love is what grows over time after (continuous/regular) prolonged exposure. Mostly out of friendship. It is also one of those things that always seems to rise (as a feeling) when you least expect it and aren’t looking for it. Every couple I know met their significant other around study, family acquaintances, sports clubs, etc. Somewhere with a shared, safe(?), reason for being there out of which something grows.
Live your life, meet people. Stop looking desperately and just observe.
Live your life, meet people. Stop looking desperately and just observe.
As someone in his early 40s, who plunged back into dating during covid after divorce, I guess I might be able to give a perspective from the other side, as it were? Or at least offer a few disconnected observations.
1) My dating age range was set to 30 to 45. After going on a couple of dates with 30 year olds (and bearing in mind that I was last dating in my early 30s), I switched to 36 to 45 because My Word, when did 30 year olds get so _young_? This is a long-winded way of saying that older men only wanting younger women is by no means a universal.
2) Some men really want children, and some really don't, but most will go along with whatever happens, and be happy if it does. Most of my male friends with children validate this: they are happy to have children, but admit it happened because it was what their partners wanted. This is a long-winded way of suggesting that when it comes to evaluating potential partners, the buckets should be "definitely doesn't want children" (so, not for you) and "everyone else". You don't need to only sample from the "definitely wants children soon" bucket. That bucket is tiny.
3) Being indelicate, after 30 people age very differently. Aging well makes you a catch :).
1) My dating age range was set to 30 to 45. After going on a couple of dates with 30 year olds (and bearing in mind that I was last dating in my early 30s), I switched to 36 to 45 because My Word, when did 30 year olds get so _young_? This is a long-winded way of saying that older men only wanting younger women is by no means a universal.
2) Some men really want children, and some really don't, but most will go along with whatever happens, and be happy if it does. Most of my male friends with children validate this: they are happy to have children, but admit it happened because it was what their partners wanted. This is a long-winded way of suggesting that when it comes to evaluating potential partners, the buckets should be "definitely doesn't want children" (so, not for you) and "everyone else". You don't need to only sample from the "definitely wants children soon" bucket. That bucket is tiny.
3) Being indelicate, after 30 people age very differently. Aging well makes you a catch :).
>Over the last two years I’ve been on over 120 dates with men I’ve met online - a few I met in person - in 3 different cities
I'd aim to reduce your rate of new dates over time by changing your criteria for whether to go or not. There is likely a mismatch between them and whatever your true preferences are. Obvious to focus on the specificity, but my hunch is that sensitivity is the key. Worth considering also that the pool of potential mates (spanning 3 cities) is vastly greater than almost anyone else at any time in history had access to, which also suggests that selection criteria are the important factor here.
>I’ve read and done the exercises in Calling In the One, Love Addiction, Datonomics, Make Your Move and If the Buddha dated. I’ve listened to every episode of Girls Gotta Eat.
Similarly, I'd also aim for quality over quantity in sources of advice. At a certain point, more advice will just dilute the concentration of good advice.
I'd aim to reduce your rate of new dates over time by changing your criteria for whether to go or not. There is likely a mismatch between them and whatever your true preferences are. Obvious to focus on the specificity, but my hunch is that sensitivity is the key. Worth considering also that the pool of potential mates (spanning 3 cities) is vastly greater than almost anyone else at any time in history had access to, which also suggests that selection criteria are the important factor here.
>I’ve read and done the exercises in Calling In the One, Love Addiction, Datonomics, Make Your Move and If the Buddha dated. I’ve listened to every episode of Girls Gotta Eat.
Similarly, I'd also aim for quality over quantity in sources of advice. At a certain point, more advice will just dilute the concentration of good advice.
A good friend of mine once told me: "You can be a great mother or a great career woman. You can't be great at both." She's now a SVP at a well-known company, but got there by making a conscious decision to forgo raising a family of her own. You seem like a very busy person, so I have to ask: are you prepared to give it all up? Or are you just looking to check off a box of life's accomplishments, like a project manager sifting through the backlog in a frantic panic? Because if you're out of story points to assign you can't do it all.
Are you prepared to be the young lady I saw in the grocery store this evening - holding an infant in one arm and pushing the shopping carriage with the other, with a sweaty look of defeat on her face? If the answer is no, then don't have children. Sadly I think you have bought into the myth that you can have your cake and eat it too. I'm sure someone will reply with countless examples of how it is possible, but I ask are those examples of great parents, or are they examples of people who own children? Having a child and raising a family is a lifelong commitment. You need to give it your all. If you're doing it for the wrong reasons, bragging rights, because it was a life 'goal' etc.; the child, and by extension society, will suffer for it. You can still have a very fulfilling life.
My personal opinion - outsourcing your child's rearing to a full time nanny or dumping them off to childcare as many busy people do - is harmful to the child's development. Anecdotally speaking, some of the most successful people I know also have some of the most f--ked up kids I've ever seen. It's because they're never around to raise and discipline them properly.
Are you prepared to be the young lady I saw in the grocery store this evening - holding an infant in one arm and pushing the shopping carriage with the other, with a sweaty look of defeat on her face? If the answer is no, then don't have children. Sadly I think you have bought into the myth that you can have your cake and eat it too. I'm sure someone will reply with countless examples of how it is possible, but I ask are those examples of great parents, or are they examples of people who own children? Having a child and raising a family is a lifelong commitment. You need to give it your all. If you're doing it for the wrong reasons, bragging rights, because it was a life 'goal' etc.; the child, and by extension society, will suffer for it. You can still have a very fulfilling life.
My personal opinion - outsourcing your child's rearing to a full time nanny or dumping them off to childcare as many busy people do - is harmful to the child's development. Anecdotally speaking, some of the most successful people I know also have some of the most f--ked up kids I've ever seen. It's because they're never around to raise and discipline them properly.
I'm not sure this will be at all helpful to you, but I will ahar a short story that had a meaningful impact on myself. I was at the point where I felt finding someone was hopeless (though now I realize I was still quite young). I was on a tour trip and spent a few days with a couple whom I learned found each other through an arraigned marriage. At first I was out off by the idea, but over the few days together l realized that they had something beautiful. They made a commitment to work together. After that I changed my efforts from finding a perfect match to finding someone I could work together with. Since then I have known my partner for 10 years and been married for over seven.
I don’t usually post, but I wanted to weigh in. We don’t usually know quickly if it’s going to work out with someone. If you can get that many dates, then you are attractive so don’t worry about that. And guys are attracted to you so don’t worry about that. Coffee is a perfect first date, and waiting until you are comfortable with a guy before intimacy is also fine - just don’t let the guy feel like you are using them. The right guy will not care if you make more money - you can weed them out that way. But for the others, try just taking it one step at a time. Be patient with them and yourself. The first few dates should only be about if you can laugh, have fun, and share honestly with each other. They should never insult you or put you down or purposefully make you ashamed of yourself or your life choices. They will certainly say the wrong things sometimes and mess up, its ok- just no pattern of it. We all make mistakes amd it can be hard to forgive. But serious long term relationships have to have forgiveness or they would end at the first mistake. Tell them you always wanted a family but previously work got in the way. Take the time to make a real connection and follow your heart. Date one person maybe 5 or 6 times, and if you don’t feel potential by then, pick another. Your success and ambition is attractive. You will succeed if you have patience with them. Good communication and being able to laugh together is essential. Pick those guys who you can talk and laugh with and go on one date every week or two with them. I know you will succeed and once you find that right guy it will all become so easy and move quickly after a short amount of time!
Hey! I'm a guy, single, 37, also living in Austin, and I have no idea what I'm doing with my own love life. I read a lot of my own feelings in what you write. If you'd like to meet someone with no weirdo agenda (or at least like, not worryingly weird), get in touch?
No pressure to respond, and I don't want to be an internet creep. I just thought you might like to know you're not the only one like us out there. You posting this here was so brave and I feel less alone just having read it.
No pressure to respond, and I don't want to be an internet creep. I just thought you might like to know you're not the only one like us out there. You posting this here was so brave and I feel less alone just having read it.
It sounds like you are earnestly trying. This is genuinely a difficult problem, so please do not get discouraged. You only need to succeed once.
A large part of the problem is that many men who wanted to be married are already paired off.
You may have to make tradeoffs for “willing to marry and have children” versus other aspects of what you want in a partner.
Out of all your friends who are (happily) married, could you see yourself with someone like their husband? If the answer is no, why not?
Also, if you are religious, have you thought of finding someone via those events?
A large part of the problem is that many men who wanted to be married are already paired off.
You may have to make tradeoffs for “willing to marry and have children” versus other aspects of what you want in a partner.
Out of all your friends who are (happily) married, could you see yourself with someone like their husband? If the answer is no, why not?
Also, if you are religious, have you thought of finding someone via those events?
I'm going to tell you what I think is the issue here.
You probably are not looking for the kind of advice that will actually work. Because that advice entails changing your end goal (lowering your standards) instead of merely changing your strategy. You are vehemently agreeing with the posts that flatter your "strategy" and disagreeing with the ones that get to the bottom of the issue (The men who will meet your standards can get young attractive women, they don't care if you are smart/successful.)
You also have an inflated sense of how smart you are. You are a humanities graduate running a generic education startup. Not the kind of tech genius you are painting yourself to be. You said you can't find any men as smart as you? Seriously? You can't find men smarter than you? Or is it that you have an inflated sense of how smart you are combined with a very narrow definition of what "smart" is?
I also looked at your twitter and you are not physically attractive enough to go on 120 dates and not find a match. Sure your friends will tell you you are beautiful but you are physically a 6.5/10. I don't say this to be mean, but to be honest. You are a 41 year old woman and you look like it. The kind of men you are looking for will not start dating you now. You seriously underestimate how much this factors in to the equation. I'm a 25 year old guy and you probably make more money than me, but I won't date you because I don't find you physically attractive enough. Men who have much more money than me would also probably feel the same.
You probably are not looking for the kind of advice that will actually work. Because that advice entails changing your end goal (lowering your standards) instead of merely changing your strategy. You are vehemently agreeing with the posts that flatter your "strategy" and disagreeing with the ones that get to the bottom of the issue (The men who will meet your standards can get young attractive women, they don't care if you are smart/successful.)
You also have an inflated sense of how smart you are. You are a humanities graduate running a generic education startup. Not the kind of tech genius you are painting yourself to be. You said you can't find any men as smart as you? Seriously? You can't find men smarter than you? Or is it that you have an inflated sense of how smart you are combined with a very narrow definition of what "smart" is?
I also looked at your twitter and you are not physically attractive enough to go on 120 dates and not find a match. Sure your friends will tell you you are beautiful but you are physically a 6.5/10. I don't say this to be mean, but to be honest. You are a 41 year old woman and you look like it. The kind of men you are looking for will not start dating you now. You seriously underestimate how much this factors in to the equation. I'm a 25 year old guy and you probably make more money than me, but I won't date you because I don't find you physically attractive enough. Men who have much more money than me would also probably feel the same.
Closeness comes from sheer amount of time spent together. I'm talking hundred+ hours just to get a new friend. Relationships beyond that require even more time.
Random dates are not the best way to fall in love, you want repeated interactions. People who you hang out with socially all the time.
This is why church/work/school have been traditional ways to find a partner. Lots of time spent close together talking and getting to know someone.
Odds are you aren't going to find yourself super duper into someone after one date. You need to do an objective judgment to see if there might be potential (good personality fit, right stage of life, etc) and go on a 2nd and 3rd date, preferably longer events, a day at a water park, skiing, whatever, just really spent time together.
Relationships can take months of interactions to blossom!
Source: I used to run a startup dedicated to helping people make friends and build long lasting relationships (non-romantic), all the research out there says the same thing: time time time!
Oh btw "love (lust) at first sight" is evolution's way of tricking us into spending lots of time with one person, thereby allowing a deeper relationship to form. (Or not in the case of people who just seek new relationship energy all the time)
Random dates are not the best way to fall in love, you want repeated interactions. People who you hang out with socially all the time.
This is why church/work/school have been traditional ways to find a partner. Lots of time spent close together talking and getting to know someone.
Odds are you aren't going to find yourself super duper into someone after one date. You need to do an objective judgment to see if there might be potential (good personality fit, right stage of life, etc) and go on a 2nd and 3rd date, preferably longer events, a day at a water park, skiing, whatever, just really spent time together.
Relationships can take months of interactions to blossom!
Source: I used to run a startup dedicated to helping people make friends and build long lasting relationships (non-romantic), all the research out there says the same thing: time time time!
Oh btw "love (lust) at first sight" is evolution's way of tricking us into spending lots of time with one person, thereby allowing a deeper relationship to form. (Or not in the case of people who just seek new relationship energy all the time)
Maybe it's time for an "Ask HN: Who's Single". I can't imagine there's only one person on here trying to find someone.
If politics are occasionally allowed on here, maybe that would be, too.
If politics are occasionally allowed on here, maybe that would be, too.
I absolutely love your honesty. Your willingness to put yourself out there and then not get defensive when people are a little bit harsh in their opinions is exceptionally rare.
Since I love children so much, it’s a little heartbreaking to hear your yearning. The one encouraging thing I can say is that you are insanely brave and you are an exceptionally clear thinker. I wish you the very best on your journey.
Since I love children so much, it’s a little heartbreaking to hear your yearning. The one encouraging thing I can say is that you are insanely brave and you are an exceptionally clear thinker. I wish you the very best on your journey.
You asked for a hack: Our culture is messing up your perception of the pool of available men.
500 years ago your possible mating pool was about 50 people, and the most attractive man you'd ever seen lived in your village, and you knew him.
Today advertising and the media is parading hundreds of impossibly attractive people in front of you every day. It messes with your perception of normal, and guys that you know can never measure up to the standards of guys in movies.
The only way out is to know that your standards have been artificially inflated and deliberately lower them.
Next time you go on a date compare the new man to the last 50 or so dates, if he's in the top half then marry him.
500 years ago your possible mating pool was about 50 people, and the most attractive man you'd ever seen lived in your village, and you knew him.
Today advertising and the media is parading hundreds of impossibly attractive people in front of you every day. It messes with your perception of normal, and guys that you know can never measure up to the standards of guys in movies.
The only way out is to know that your standards have been artificially inflated and deliberately lower them.
Next time you go on a date compare the new man to the last 50 or so dates, if he's in the top half then marry him.
My impression is that all the complex and time consuming things you have been doing, you are just doing in order to to leave a properly documented trail to convince yourself (mainly, as well as anyone else) that you made a good and proper effort, and that the lack of a result must be due to some uncontrollable external factors, and not something like your heart not being in it, or you're scared or reasons like that.
These are three options, there are more:
Option 1: Expand the pool - learn to be turned on by and interested in a wider variety of people.
Option 2: Convert an existing relationship, perhaps a platonic friendship, to a mutually beneficial partnership.
Option 3: Genuinely give up, allow yourself to relieve yourself of any expectations, and try to become mindful of the internal pressures you are applying on yourself as a reaction to your own childhood etc.
Option 1: Expand the pool - learn to be turned on by and interested in a wider variety of people.
Option 2: Convert an existing relationship, perhaps a platonic friendship, to a mutually beneficial partnership.
Option 3: Genuinely give up, allow yourself to relieve yourself of any expectations, and try to become mindful of the internal pressures you are applying on yourself as a reaction to your own childhood etc.
I wish you the best luck. My advice for the children part is: this is deeply personal and everyone is different, for me personally biological children would be out of the question at that age (esp given no current long-term partner). However there’s other options.
My sister had a 2 yo and was pregnant of 7 months when her husband had a sudden heart failure and passed away. It was as dramatic as you imagine.
She rebuilt her life, eventually meeting her current partner, a great guy who loves has her and her two children. They are a happy family, he is their dad.
Life throws hard balls sometimes, but it also surprises you. I guess my hack is “keep your eyes open, you might not get the limousine you wanted but you could get a tank instead, and tank are quite cool”.
I also think it would help if you mentioned something about why you think none of the previous 120 candidates didn’t work out.
Again, best of luck.
My sister had a 2 yo and was pregnant of 7 months when her husband had a sudden heart failure and passed away. It was as dramatic as you imagine.
She rebuilt her life, eventually meeting her current partner, a great guy who loves has her and her two children. They are a happy family, he is their dad.
Life throws hard balls sometimes, but it also surprises you. I guess my hack is “keep your eyes open, you might not get the limousine you wanted but you could get a tank instead, and tank are quite cool”.
I also think it would help if you mentioned something about why you think none of the previous 120 candidates didn’t work out.
Again, best of luck.
Sorry you're going through this. That sounds trying.
Was it Alaska that was described as "the odds are good, but the goods are odd" regarding the dating scene and overabundance of men? Maybe a summer in Anchorage is worth a try. You will lose Austin's amazing taco scene, but gain some glaciers :)
Was it Alaska that was described as "the odds are good, but the goods are odd" regarding the dating scene and overabundance of men? Maybe a summer in Anchorage is worth a try. You will lose Austin's amazing taco scene, but gain some glaciers :)
By most cultural standards, according to my male friends, I’m smart, beautiful, fit, kind, emotionally mature and doing meaningful work in the world. Not too needy and not a workaholic.
Over the last two years I’ve been on over 120 dates with men I’ve met online - a few I met in person - in 3 different cities .
I’ve deeply invested myself in therapy, support groups, meditation, dating coaching, yoga and hypnotism. I’ve tried bumble, tinder , Eharmony, hinge, coffee meets bagel, Thursday, Match, speed dating as well as a few other random apps.
I’ve asked my friends to set me up . I tried to crowdsource a husband on Facebook.
I’ve read and done the exercises in Calling In the One, Love Addiction, Datonomics, Make Your Move and If the Buddha dated. I’ve listened to every episode of Girls Gotta Eat.
I’ve gone to CrossFit and hung out at steakhouses. I’ve dated every profession you can think of from doctors to electricians and unemployed guys.
I even moved to Austin because I read that’s where there was the highest ratio of educated men to women, thereby improving my odds of meeting a marriageable man.
My time for having children is running out.
This has always been my dream and I’m willing to try almost anything. I was raised by a single mom and I really want to have kids with a man I love, not do it on my own.
So, are there any love hacks I could try?
Please encouragement only, no discouragement. I’m discouraged enough already.