Why you should never be a startup girlfriend(stephfinch.com)
stephfinch.com
Why you should never be a startup girlfriend
http://stephfinch.com/2008/07/why-you-should-never-be-a-startup-girlfriend/
For all of you ladies who may or may not be flirting with the idea of dating a startup programmer, you should know exactly what you’re getting yourself into.
11 comments
There's something about lists like this that bother me. I know it shouldn't -- it's meant to be light and humorous. I think what bothers me is that the person she describes is really, godawful boring.
The line that stands out for me: "If you want to understand your boyfriend, understand computers. It’s not that difficult."
I...I just don't know. I'm an engineer at an early-stage startup and computers are a big part of my life, but I certainly hope they're not the best way for my girlfriend to understand me.
I'm not ribbing the article. It's cute. But when I read it I cringe and maybe worry a little bit that I actually am like that.
I'd also feel terrible if I treated my girlfriend like that.
The line that stands out for me: "If you want to understand your boyfriend, understand computers. It’s not that difficult."
I...I just don't know. I'm an engineer at an early-stage startup and computers are a big part of my life, but I certainly hope they're not the best way for my girlfriend to understand me.
I'm not ribbing the article. It's cute. But when I read it I cringe and maybe worry a little bit that I actually am like that.
I'd also feel terrible if I treated my girlfriend like that.
I agree. I've never had a girlfriend or worked at a startup, but I hope I'd be mature enough not to care if she used Windows, had an obsolete/nonexistent gaget collection and was happy working in a cubicle. And that I'd understand her well enough to be able to show my affection in ways that meant something to her, rather than requiring her to understand that it means something to me.
How many people have you teased for being technologically inferior, such as writing "u" instead of you or accidentally installing Gator? When you rip into other people for doing this, even if not directly towards your girlfriend, she sees that and probably starts feeling self-conscious if she is a technological dunce too.
u "you" users r !(technologically superior).
use of English != technological status
use of English != technological status
use of English == intellectual status.
Fine. use of native language == intellectual status. And if you disagree with me there, I'd like to know why.
I agree that clarity of language may reflect clarity of thought. There are many reasons to "play dumb", from fitting in to intentional deception.
...and maybe worry a little bit that I actually am like that
So? No where in the article do I see her complaining about anything. I am an "engineer" at a startup as well, and I have never treated a girlfriend poorly. She wouldn't skip work to spend time with you and you can't either. The difference is you work far longer and less set hours than she does. When you're building or running a business you have to be realize that there are people in that relationship that are counting on you, likely for their livelihood. Due to this fact, "dates" become less important than keeping the website up because missing a date doesn't cost you hundreds or thousands of dollars -- and it keeps the people you work with from becoming frustrated or angry by your lack of proper priorities.
I exhibit many of the tendencies she describes in the article, albeit toned down to a less extreme level (I would never do an SEO campaign for a gf's birthday site (or make said site), for example). Saying "If you want to understand your boyfriend, understand computers" is accurate so long as you take it to mean, to understand what he talks about if you ask about work or what's causing stress, etc. In previous relationships, sometimes the woman took a genuine interest in what I did, wanted to learn a bit about it, etc. Others would just affectionately tell me I'm "such a nerd" and tell me to come back to bed. Either way, it requires understanding on their part.
As for being boring, I can honestly say I've never had a boring relationship. Just because she works at a bank doesn't mean she's boring, just like coding doesn't make you boring. It's what you do with the time you're together that matters. In general, it's what you do when you're not working that makes life exciting and adventurous. Your profession should have nothing to do with that (unless you're an international assassin or something, then it's always exciting). An old friend of mine, who barely ever uses his computer, has routinely been described by his girlfriends as an extremely boring person. He doesn't like going out and would prefer to just lounge around his apartment all day and play video games or watch TV, regardless of whether or not his girlfriend is there. I have never once been with a woman and said "lets just sit around and you can watch me play this game." You're making assumptions based on outdated stereotypes.
Yes, in general "we" are highly technical, logical people. We like challenges and taking risks. We hate mediocrity and lose interest in anything as soon as it becomes boring. We can be very passionate, opinionated and headstrong. We have a constant desire to learn and grow in new ways.
Now, what in the hell is bad about that?
So? No where in the article do I see her complaining about anything. I am an "engineer" at a startup as well, and I have never treated a girlfriend poorly. She wouldn't skip work to spend time with you and you can't either. The difference is you work far longer and less set hours than she does. When you're building or running a business you have to be realize that there are people in that relationship that are counting on you, likely for their livelihood. Due to this fact, "dates" become less important than keeping the website up because missing a date doesn't cost you hundreds or thousands of dollars -- and it keeps the people you work with from becoming frustrated or angry by your lack of proper priorities.
I exhibit many of the tendencies she describes in the article, albeit toned down to a less extreme level (I would never do an SEO campaign for a gf's birthday site (or make said site), for example). Saying "If you want to understand your boyfriend, understand computers" is accurate so long as you take it to mean, to understand what he talks about if you ask about work or what's causing stress, etc. In previous relationships, sometimes the woman took a genuine interest in what I did, wanted to learn a bit about it, etc. Others would just affectionately tell me I'm "such a nerd" and tell me to come back to bed. Either way, it requires understanding on their part.
As for being boring, I can honestly say I've never had a boring relationship. Just because she works at a bank doesn't mean she's boring, just like coding doesn't make you boring. It's what you do with the time you're together that matters. In general, it's what you do when you're not working that makes life exciting and adventurous. Your profession should have nothing to do with that (unless you're an international assassin or something, then it's always exciting). An old friend of mine, who barely ever uses his computer, has routinely been described by his girlfriends as an extremely boring person. He doesn't like going out and would prefer to just lounge around his apartment all day and play video games or watch TV, regardless of whether or not his girlfriend is there. I have never once been with a woman and said "lets just sit around and you can watch me play this game." You're making assumptions based on outdated stereotypes.
Yes, in general "we" are highly technical, logical people. We like challenges and taking risks. We hate mediocrity and lose interest in anything as soon as it becomes boring. We can be very passionate, opinionated and headstrong. We have a constant desire to learn and grow in new ways.
Now, what in the hell is bad about that?
I agree -- it's another classical example of the, "Advice = Limited Life Experience + Overgeneralization" maxim.
I suppose the thing is that the title "Ways to Deal with a Relationship Between an Archtypical Nerd Working at a Startup and Moderately Nerdy Girlfriend Who Isn't" doesn't have quite the same ring to it.
There are lots of other walks of life that require startup-level commitment. People working in those "get it". I think it's harder for someone who has a "normal job" and is trying to cope with being resolved to be a "startup girlfriend" (rather than say, a film director or writer or whatever).
I suppose the thing is that the title "Ways to Deal with a Relationship Between an Archtypical Nerd Working at a Startup and Moderately Nerdy Girlfriend Who Isn't" doesn't have quite the same ring to it.
There are lots of other walks of life that require startup-level commitment. People working in those "get it". I think it's harder for someone who has a "normal job" and is trying to cope with being resolved to be a "startup girlfriend" (rather than say, a film director or writer or whatever).
Ah yes, "the zone".
Whenever I start living with / working with / dating someone I always make sure to warn them about "the zone". I've been known to completely tune out everything around me to the point that it takes someone waving their hands in front of my face to get my attention.
I try to tell people it's nothing personal, and I'm not consciously ignoring them, but I don't know if they believe me. The worst is when I realize 5 minutes later that someone was trying to get my attention and gave up.
Whenever I start living with / working with / dating someone I always make sure to warn them about "the zone". I've been known to completely tune out everything around me to the point that it takes someone waving their hands in front of my face to get my attention.
I try to tell people it's nothing personal, and I'm not consciously ignoring them, but I don't know if they believe me. The worst is when I realize 5 minutes later that someone was trying to get my attention and gave up.
Or... "why you should never date someone who writes blog posts named 'why you should never be a startup girlfriend'"
+1, correct use of quotes.
I guess someone needs to write an article for the 1% of people who fall into the "startup boyfriend" category.
I appreciate men who understand computers, use Macs (or, well, I'm platform agnostic but prefer !windows), know what twitter is, and will wait in line with me to get a new iPhone. :)
I appreciate men who understand computers, use Macs (or, well, I'm platform agnostic but prefer !windows), know what twitter is, and will wait in line with me to get a new iPhone. :)
Buried for innaccurate title. She concludes that she actually enjoys being a startup girlfriend.
Oh wait this isn't digg. Up arrowed.
Oh wait this isn't digg. Up arrowed.
For those of us that are single...
Does a single girl out there EXIST that could understand even a few of these items? Particularly the one about weekends?
I've scoured my campus and I have yet to find one.
If(oneExists) { letMeKnow(); } else { sigh++; }
Does a single girl out there EXIST that could understand even a few of these items? Particularly the one about weekends?
I've scoured my campus and I have yet to find one.
If(oneExists) { letMeKnow(); } else { sigh++; }
In college, there may be some, but they're few and far between--largely because they, like you, are holed up in their dorms all day playing WoW. Once you graduate, and you both start having more normal lives, it gets much easier. Here in NYC, I've not had any trouble finding geek-compatible girls, and have been in several overall very pleasant relationships over the past couple of years. You just have to be willing to look.
girls that do lots of sports understand the weekends. I spent most of my weekends in the spring at college at bike races. I tended to date girls who were athletic also.
They exist, unless I got the last one (which I doubt).
> "You will have to appreciate the time and effort it took to run a search engine optimization campaign on the website he made you for your birthday, and how important that is to him. He shows his affection differently than other guys do sometimes."
That's funny.
That's funny.
All I know is that Startup Girlfriend is going to be in the title of my next product.
"~Own a Mac or be willing to admit that you should."
Who codes on a Mac?
Who codes on a Mac?
I'd say about 70-80% of the engineers I know in the Bay Area, including me.
Uhh, pretty much everyone these days, dude.
Debian on a powerbook (eat it).
I do, I used to code on a laptop running gentoo but got tired of spending too much time working as a sys-admin on my own system...
Now I use a mac and use prefixed portage to manage all the unix apps I use.
Now I use a mac and use prefixed portage to manage all the unix apps I use.
You use portage on a mac? How? Got a link?
It's not not a port of Gentoo Portage, but here's something similar: http://macports.org
There's also Fink, but for some reason I didn't like it when I first tried it (over 2 years ago).
There's also Fink, but for some reason I didn't like it when I first tried it (over 2 years ago).
I do.
Since 2002.
What do you code on?
Linux or BSD is where it's at for hackers. MacOS is nice too, of course, it's simple enough that my mom can use it. Just that if you really want to be in control of things, you probably want Linux. If I had to do sales or something else where looking flashy was important, I guess that would be another place where Apple's very nice looking products would be a good pick, but Dell+Ubuntu is a much better price/performance bet for someone who just wants to hack, a lot, and enjoys the freedom and control that come with free software. Admittedly, not for everyone, but then again, this site is for hackers, right?.
I want to be in complete control in my production machines (aka servers) not in my development machines. When I want to code I want to get it with the minimum hassle.
It's not exactly tough to code on Linux, so it's not an 'either or' proposition. Furthermore, you get the added bonus that if you set things up right, you can have very similar environments on your desktop and server.
And even on your desktop, there are good reasons to have more control than Apple might allow you to have. Steve Yegge's focus follows mouse rant is a great one:
http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/04/settling-osx-focus-f...
... and finally, it's just cool, for anyone who really loves to hack, to get source code to everything.
And even on your desktop, there are good reasons to have more control than Apple might allow you to have. Steve Yegge's focus follows mouse rant is a great one:
http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/04/settling-osx-focus-f...
... and finally, it's just cool, for anyone who really loves to hack, to get source code to everything.
I code on Kubuntu using vim. Macs are too expensive in my area + i don't really know of any advantages to kubuntu other than the prettier interface. My kde desktop is really fast and i can do my daily tasks really fast so i have no problem with it. Macs are probably cool too, but i enjoy flexibility more than pretty icons, and my crystal clear icons are pretty enough for me.
ps. Fluxbox is pretty too.
ps. Fluxbox is pretty too.
I will never cease to be amazed by how nerds can imagine anything (and read crazy sci-fi about it), but if an object can be described as "pretty", it cannot have any other positive traits.
That wasn't my point at all, and there are plenty of things to which I would ascribe many positive attributes including pretty - first and foremost my wife, who quite smart, and also pretty.
Or, you know, if you want to work without having to worry about ALSA taking a dump in your ears.
Anyone serious about coding.
Crazy talk. Apple hardware is nice, but OSX is at best mediocre for systems programming.
Why? I'm not hacking the kernel or anything, but I write plenty of systems-level code on Mac OS first and then port to Linux (usually painlessly). It's like any other unix. The only pain I can remember encountering was dealing with a MacOS calling convention weirdness (it uses 16 byte stack pointer alignment even on x86).
I'd still use OSX then virtualization to get to whatever OS I need. It does depend what sort of programming you need to do though.
Do many people still do systems programming? :/
Do many people still do systems programming? :/
A couple of years ago, I created a coin-op internet access system from a stripped down version of Debian, that ran in several hotels near Venice, Italy. It was pretty cool, and would have been difficult to accomplish with anything but Linux (infact, it replaced a windows system that never worked very well). Unfortunately the business side of things didn't work out very well because the guy I was working with was not really on the up and up:-(
I still have the code somewhere, if anyone's interested in doing some kind of deal.
I still have the code somewhere, if anyone's interested in doing some kind of deal.
I do.
Me
Me.
Why you should never be a girlfriend: relationships usually end painfully
Ah. Don't make me break out the Tennyson.
"'tis better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all."
Sorry, I had to!
"'tis better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all."
Sorry, I had to!
Only people who haven't really lost someone say this kinda stuff. The pain of loss eclipses all the good parts of having loved by a large margin, in my experience.
Then you're doing it [grieving|loving] wrong.
Losing someone (like most other things) gets easier the more times you do it...
Again, spoken like someone who hasn't lost someone. You may become progressively less likely to let any given person become that important to you over time, but losing someone truly important really doesn't get easier.
I've lost more than one someone over the years. To be honest, the most important thing is being happy with yourself, whether you're in a relationship or not.
"'tis better to have loved and lost 5 times, than never to have loved at all."
Is this version true too?
Is this version true too?
Yeah, you need to iterate to refine the process.
If every iteration hurts then is iterating a lot really a good plan?
In each iteration one believes this is the final iteration that will last forever. If not, you're doing it wrong. How is that compatible with planning to iterate?
In each iteration one believes this is the final iteration that will last forever. If not, you're doing it wrong. How is that compatible with planning to iterate?
It's the same as creating a company... If the failure rate is high, trying more than one time bring the failure rate down...
But when you are creating a company if you start by thinking that it's going to fail, you are already out of the game ;-)
Believing things will last forever is not a necessary attribute for love. All things are ephemeral.
you need to watch a movie called "Les Poupees Russes" (Sorry, don't know how to do accents on my iPhone)
Serial monogamy is de rigueur these days, no?
Everything is better in 5's!
Serial entrepreneur, serial lover?
Serial entrepreneur, serial lover?
Most people frown on serial marriages for some reason. :)
Because each one takes 50% of your assets.
[deleted]
Why you should never start a company: most fail painfully.