Decision for 2020-21 Academic Year(fas.harvard.edu)
fas.harvard.edu
Decision for 2020-21 Academic Year
https://www.fas.harvard.edu/fas-decision-2020-2021-academic-year
505 comments
I left college for a semester, then re-enrolled and graduated. It's incredibly easy to do.
If I were a current Harvard student, I'd drop out for the next year. Take some community college courses, work, travel (in a COVID-responsible way...maybe road trips only).
This is a unique opportunity to get off of the well-trodden path and far preferable to sitting in front of a computer in your parents' house for a year.
There is a huge safety net once you've gotten into an Ivy or other top school. Best case scenario, you start a business and no longer need Harvard, a la Zuckerberg or Gates. Worst case scenario, you graduate broke at 23 (with some great stories), rather than broke at 22 (without the stories).
The value of a college degree is:
1) Signaling/exclusivity (the diploma)
2) The connections you make
3) The subject matter that you learn
4) The social environment – all of the benefits of adulthood with none of the responsibilities
Distance learning only hits #3 on that list. Harvard can get away with charging full tuition for its classes because...it's Harvard. So it also hits #1. But the majority of schools are in for a rude awakening when they realize that students were paying for the social environment and aren't willing to, in the words of Good Will Hunting, "Waste $150,000 on an education you coulda got for $1.50 in late fees at the public library."
If I were a current Harvard student, I'd drop out for the next year. Take some community college courses, work, travel (in a COVID-responsible way...maybe road trips only).
This is a unique opportunity to get off of the well-trodden path and far preferable to sitting in front of a computer in your parents' house for a year.
There is a huge safety net once you've gotten into an Ivy or other top school. Best case scenario, you start a business and no longer need Harvard, a la Zuckerberg or Gates. Worst case scenario, you graduate broke at 23 (with some great stories), rather than broke at 22 (without the stories).
The value of a college degree is:
1) Signaling/exclusivity (the diploma)
2) The connections you make
3) The subject matter that you learn
4) The social environment – all of the benefits of adulthood with none of the responsibilities
Distance learning only hits #3 on that list. Harvard can get away with charging full tuition for its classes because...it's Harvard. So it also hits #1. But the majority of schools are in for a rude awakening when they realize that students were paying for the social environment and aren't willing to, in the words of Good Will Hunting, "Waste $150,000 on an education you coulda got for $1.50 in late fees at the public library."
COVID-19 will likely be a watershed moment for higher education in the US. Many colleges and universities will likely never return to what they had before. There will be immense pressure to rethink how the whole system works and the cost structures therein.
At many schools the cost increases over the last few decades have very little to do with increasing the quality of education and a lot to do with unnecessary expenses and ever growing administrative bloat. It’s going to be hard for schools to justify their cost when they’re running essentially an online school and that’s the first step towards the whole house of cards falling apart. Expect to see a lot of changes in the coming years. It will be painful but for the best in the long term in getting schools back to basics of providing education.
Schools like Harvard will be fine but outside the top tier it’s about to get real ugly.
At many schools the cost increases over the last few decades have very little to do with increasing the quality of education and a lot to do with unnecessary expenses and ever growing administrative bloat. It’s going to be hard for schools to justify their cost when they’re running essentially an online school and that’s the first step towards the whole house of cards falling apart. Expect to see a lot of changes in the coming years. It will be painful but for the best in the long term in getting schools back to basics of providing education.
Schools like Harvard will be fine but outside the top tier it’s about to get real ugly.
Imagine paying the fee for a Harvard MBA and missing out on arguably the most valuable aspect of it - nepotism and networking.
Wise decision, but this renders the cost of education (in US universities) even more unjustifiable.
Having taught a semester online, I think you can do really good teaching online, but you need a few things:
1) Small class sizes. Mine was under 15. Otherwise, very little discussion happens 2) A lot of work & learning assigned outside of class 3) Time each class for sub-groups
I do think they will have to adjust the tuition. It is hard to justify paying 60k or whatever Harvard charges for online education. It is objectively much, much cheaper to deliver.
Schools will need to invest in a lot more online tools and training, however.
I don't understand how larger class sizes will happen, unless they are going completely lecture.
The other thing I did with my small class was set up a Slack channel. I was available daily to chat about whatever and give feedback and work through concepts.
I spent a tremendous amount of time chatting with students on Zoom and Slack inbetween classes when I taught online last semester.
The idea that good online teaching is just like some free MOOC is not reality-based. It needs to be very hands-on.
1) Small class sizes. Mine was under 15. Otherwise, very little discussion happens 2) A lot of work & learning assigned outside of class 3) Time each class for sub-groups
I do think they will have to adjust the tuition. It is hard to justify paying 60k or whatever Harvard charges for online education. It is objectively much, much cheaper to deliver.
Schools will need to invest in a lot more online tools and training, however.
I don't understand how larger class sizes will happen, unless they are going completely lecture.
The other thing I did with my small class was set up a Slack channel. I was available daily to chat about whatever and give feedback and work through concepts.
I spent a tremendous amount of time chatting with students on Zoom and Slack inbetween classes when I taught online last semester.
The idea that good online teaching is just like some free MOOC is not reality-based. It needs to be very hands-on.
Interestingly, DHS just decided today that international students cannot maintain their legal status with a 100% online education https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/sevp-modifies-temporary-ex...
If I'm reading this correctly, all incoming Freshman will spend Fall semester living on campus and all graduating Seniors will do likewise for Spring semester, however all courses will be online only. I can't imagine doing online coursework from the dorm and I'm not sure what kind of safety is being gained by just avoiding the classroom while social interactions continue.
I'm confused why there is still so much fear and abnormal life in the US when the US CDC says the mortality rate is miniscule, e.g. [1]. We're not completely back to normal yet in Vietnam, but a lot closer.
[1] https://reason.com/2020/05/24/the-cdcs-new-best-estimate-imp...
[1] https://reason.com/2020/05/24/the-cdcs-new-best-estimate-imp...
I recently talked to someone who worked in higher ed administration, and they said that Covid may sink hundreds of smaller private colleges across the country that have quietly been on the financial brink this whole time. So they are all focused on keeping as much revenue coming in as possible.
On the other side of all of this, I am imagining a world where higher education is not nearly as important as we pretend it is now.
On the other side of all of this, I am imagining a world where higher education is not nearly as important as we pretend it is now.
> plans to bring up to 40% of our undergraduates to campus, including all first-year students, for the fall semester. Assuming that we maintain 40% density in the spring semester, we would again bring back one class, and our priority at this time is to bring seniors to campus
I'm not sure what exactly is achieved by having 40% density if that decreased density isn't evenly distributed. Unless I'm misreading, the incoming Freshman classes will all be at 100% density.
I'm not sure what exactly is achieved by having 40% density if that decreased density isn't evenly distributed. Unless I'm misreading, the incoming Freshman classes will all be at 100% density.
Apparently ICE won't let international students stay in the US in an "online only" school [0]. Makes me realize that as convenient as it is to be able to get education online, having fast internet speed is a privilege.
[0]: https://twitter.com/ReichlinMelnick/status/12802074875730698...
[0]: https://twitter.com/ReichlinMelnick/status/12802074875730698...
I hope they and other universities increase vision insurance/benefits. From experience, staying glued to a Zoom screen for over >6hrs a day for an extended period of time places tremendous strain on the eyes.
I remember one inspiring story from a few years ago, a student who did janitor work to pay family bills before going to Harvard: https://www.cnn.com/2012/06/07/us/from-janitor-to-harvard/in...
Hope colleges can prioritize students from underprivileged backgrounds. They might even be safer on campus.
Hope colleges can prioritize students from underprivileged backgrounds. They might even be safer on campus.
I've been attending online courses this semester (I'm a part-time masters student) and it has been interesting comparing them to my on-campus courses. At first, I was glad to not have to make the trip down there after work since the buses don't run often enough in the evening and it can be easy to be stuck waiting in the cold. But as time went on, I began to be frustrated. I'm paying frankly exorbitant amounts of money and getting basically, a live Udemy course with 20-40 other people at the same time. Previously, a lot of the value was the interaction with the professor and my peers. While I do think virtual education, done right, is indeed highly undervalued but also rarely done well. I don't think I should be paying the same amount for a frankly worse product.
I'm curious to see how universities adapt to this in the future.
I'm curious to see how universities adapt to this in the future.
Here's Cornell's email to students if anyone was curious:
https://www.scribd.com/document/468208772/Cornell-Mail-Plans...
https://www.scribd.com/document/468208772/Cornell-Mail-Plans...
I would hope that Harvard students could adapt pretty easily. The public school my kids go to will only be open 2 days per week next year, mostly for tech support. That is a real travesty for the kids, especially with Mom and Dad going to work, the kids will be one their own often trying to get it done. I'll be spending my evenings playing teacher after a full day of work. I refuse to let me kids fall behind, its obvious that the government won't do anything but send kids home and hope for the best. The kids need the classroom and need to be social. Not looking for my family to get covid but we need to do more to educate the next generation.
Consequences of an utterly inept pandemic response.
I have two children in college. One college announced a similar plan, half of students on campus at a time. If the plan is followed through, then, the class of 2022 will spend 17 straight months on campus, from January 2021 until graduation in May 2022. The college held an online question and answer for parents. The question of burn out for the class of 2022 came up. The school president's answer was: That's a problem we would love to have. Basically, the school thinks there will be several more complete shutdowns over the next few years.
looking back at all of the things i most appreciated about going to university, classes are near the bottom of the list. you cant put a price on the relationships you form, the labs, the teams and companies that you spin off, the hands on activities with tools and technology and artifacts you could never access otherwise, even simply being away somewhere you didnt grow up. you dont just put that on the internet anymore than you can expect cybersex to yield offspring
It's crazy how much the entire country is outraged over Harvard's tuition during COVID. Maybe worry about getting in first? Or even better, focus your anger on your state university system's funding and tuition costs.
The majority of Harvard students receive financial aid anyways, and a fifth of them pay nothing. Whether online classes are worth it or not remains to be seen, but it's not a decision the country's masses have to make.
The majority of Harvard students receive financial aid anyways, and a fifth of them pay nothing. Whether online classes are worth it or not remains to be seen, but it's not a decision the country's masses have to make.
With more companies going to WFH and distributed models (even before coronavirus), I think its important for people to learn the skills needed. So I don't see why more (high) schools and universities don't do WFH at least some of the time.
Obviously there is more to university than logging in and watching a video lecture etc. But given the new normal, airs not a bad thing to have to do that sometimes...
Obviously there is more to university than logging in and watching a video lecture etc. But given the new normal, airs not a bad thing to have to do that sometimes...
So first year students can live on campus in the fall semester but not attend classes in person.
I understand all classes having an online option, but am surprised they aren't mixed modality so the students on campus can be in person.
Is it more difficult/expensive to make a classroom safe than the rest of the campus? Or professors have pushed back on mixed modality (due to health and/or logistics concerns)? Or something else?
I understand all classes having an online option, but am surprised they aren't mixed modality so the students on campus can be in person.
Is it more difficult/expensive to make a classroom safe than the rest of the campus? Or professors have pushed back on mixed modality (due to health and/or logistics concerns)? Or something else?
Probably the first MA college that I've seen to say only freshman coming back. Mine, (WPI) still has been telling every undergrad that everything is only optionally online, and that they would just convert triples to doubles and the usual covid guidelines. Freshman-only seems to me more realistic although disheartening to hear as a rising senior.
So they are not deluding themselves about how transmissible covid is, nor how serious it is.
Meanwhile the rest get told to get back to the office.
Meanwhile the rest get told to get back to the office.
So here's a question how are they going to prevent people from sharing the online courses? Like is there anything that stops someone from sharing or restreaming their classes?
I mean given what the value of a Harvard education is considered I would think there would be a lot of people interested in getting access to these courses.
I mean given what the value of a Harvard education is considered I would think there would be a lot of people interested in getting access to these courses.
This move will unveil the commoditization of education.
The value any school provides is campus connection. These campuses become part of a student’s identity, and drive strong loyalty for life. What happens when they’re no longer on campus? How does that connection happen?
The value any school provides is campus connection. These campuses become part of a student’s identity, and drive strong loyalty for life. What happens when they’re no longer on campus? How does that connection happen?
I personally think the value of a Harvard education is not necessarily what you learn, but who you meet. That's why it's critical for majority of the student body to be in close proximity to one another. I wonder if they could crack the challenges of building rapport between students remotely.
With the new ICE Directive, I wonder how much of “this is the right thing to do” will change.
From a physical well being perspective, remote is right.
But with International student visa statuses at risk, the onus is now on Harvard to enable in person classes for those at risk?
Now that most courses can be taught online I've always wondered why not more companies would offer certified examination.
I mean, you follow a course, you get graded in a certified grading facility; what else remains to justify those absurd tuition fees?
I mean, you follow a course, you get graded in a certified grading facility; what else remains to justify those absurd tuition fees?
FWIW, I personally think distance learning is underrated, although I have been doing it for years so I've had time to become accustomed to it. I can understand why some students (including my wife) do not like it, and may never like it.
From a strategic perspective, I can see universities like Harvard strengthening their brand by opening up more of their classes to the general public (and maybe even giving credit for a bigger chunk of them via the Extension School). This might hurt a lot of the smaller institutions and lead to consolidation, but I'm undecided on whether that would be a bad thing.