Tesla’s success in Europe catches industry off guard(nytimes.com)
nytimes.com
Tesla’s success in Europe catches industry off guard
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/04/business/tesla-europe-success.html
477 comments
I don't know if it's just me, but I find most non Tesla electric cars to be incredibly ugly. If BMW made an electric 3 class sedan with > 350 miles of range for a reasonable price, I think that would be hugely successful. Instead they made the i3.
The VW ID.3 looks like it would have the same problem. I know this is very subjective, but why not make a car that looks more like their already successful models?
The VW ID.3 looks like it would have the same problem. I know this is very subjective, but why not make a car that looks more like their already successful models?
I find it a very strange coincidence that the recent law in France to update the tax incentives against CO2 emitters and towards EV placed a new, previously nonexistent limit precisely right below the base Tesla price, excluding everything above (and thus every Tesla car) from the incentive.
As it turns out, local EV cars such as the Renault Zoe are below the threshold, not the least because you buy the car but rent the battery, so the price appears much lower to the consumer, and the price of the battery is magically not factored in against the threshold.
As it turns out, local EV cars such as the Renault Zoe are below the threshold, not the least because you buy the car but rent the battery, so the price appears much lower to the consumer, and the price of the battery is magically not factored in against the threshold.
This title is highly misleading. Tesla isn't incredibly successful 'in Europe'. It's very successful in VERY few European countries (Netherlands, Norway). And it's due to local incentives mostly. You aren't going to be blown away by a number of Teslas in Italy or Greece or Poland or France. But when you walk through Amsterdam - yes, there are a ton of Teslas parked everywhere.
The same thing is happening to traditional automobile manufacturers now as what happened to the likes of Kodak and Xerox when the digital revolution came. They'll deny that the change is happening until it's way too late, and then become obsolete. Even when any outsider can look at the industry and say it's obvious that the future is electric and any manufacturer that hasn't already seriously dived into making EVs is being stupid.
And yet, here we are ...
And yet, here we are ...
ITT: lots of Americans responding to an article about the European car/mobility market with their exclusively American experience.
Leaving aside (and I know this hard) the controversy of Tesla's valuation, Elon Musk and the environmental virtues of electric cars, think what a historic success Tesla is as a car company. There have been dozen(s) of car companies started in the US since WW2 and you could argue that not one of them has been a success. The biggest Kaiser Motors, has probably been surpassed.
For decades American and Japanese manufacturers have tried to compete with European luxury brands. American companies had almost no success and Japanese very little. Lexus does well, but it never displaced German car sales the way Tesla is now. I am not a Tesla fanboy, but I do like cars. You have to respect the product.
For decades American and Japanese manufacturers have tried to compete with European luxury brands. American companies had almost no success and Japanese very little. Lexus does well, but it never displaced German car sales the way Tesla is now. I am not a Tesla fanboy, but I do like cars. You have to respect the product.
How much of a head start does Tesla have over traditional ICE-based auto manufacturers? It feels like a 10-year head start from my uninformed opinion. It will take a lot of work to change engineering ops, supply chains, and deal with pensions.
Aside luxury cars, it seems like German manufacturers are also losing against French manufacturers in the electric compact car market.
Peugeot and Renault are having a decent success with their latest cars: https://uk.motor1.com/news/401562/europe-ev-sales-january-20...
Peugeot and Renault are having a decent success with their latest cars: https://uk.motor1.com/news/401562/europe-ev-sales-january-20...
Tesla seems to be somewhat ahead in technology - their range is currently higher than in the Porsches/Audis/... and the software seems quite a bit more advanced.
Tesla can use this to their advantage to sell more cars while the traditional automakers play catchup. But eventually they will get closer.
And Volkswagen alone can introduce dozens of new models every year, based on their building blocks (MEB) and numerous brands. There will be cars this year from 15.000€ (VW e.Up and friends) to 150.000€ (Porsche Taycan), and a few others in between. VW alone plans to introduce 70 electric models in the coming years.
How will Tesla, who did 4 models in ten years, compete with the sheer breadth of this market? Looking at what’s parked in the street, people choose lots of different types of cars, there’s no one-fits-all.
Tesla can use this to their advantage to sell more cars while the traditional automakers play catchup. But eventually they will get closer.
And Volkswagen alone can introduce dozens of new models every year, based on their building blocks (MEB) and numerous brands. There will be cars this year from 15.000€ (VW e.Up and friends) to 150.000€ (Porsche Taycan), and a few others in between. VW alone plans to introduce 70 electric models in the coming years.
How will Tesla, who did 4 models in ten years, compete with the sheer breadth of this market? Looking at what’s parked in the street, people choose lots of different types of cars, there’s no one-fits-all.
> One of the Model 3’s big selling points is its autonomous driving software
Is it really though?
It's not something I would ever want to use in its current form (which I understand is not safe enough to leave 'unattended', as it were, so so it seems to fall into a dangerous valley where it's autonomous enough that I don't have to pay full attention but also inadvisable not to)
I'm pretty sure the main selling points are all around the electrification - superior range to other electric competitors plus the running cost benefit of electric vehicles in urban areas with pollution taxation.
Is it really though?
It's not something I would ever want to use in its current form (which I understand is not safe enough to leave 'unattended', as it were, so so it seems to fall into a dangerous valley where it's autonomous enough that I don't have to pay full attention but also inadvisable not to)
I'm pretty sure the main selling points are all around the electrification - superior range to other electric competitors plus the running cost benefit of electric vehicles in urban areas with pollution taxation.
> But, while technically innovative, with a carbon-fiber body, the i3 is essentially a very expensive hatchback.
Yep. When people buy high performance or luxury cars, part of the mystique is that it is the latest evolution of some sort of classic. It's going to be hard for BMW et al to position electric vehicles as belonging to any existing lineage. This puts their brand at risk unless they can figure out how to make a remarkable electric car. But nobody really knows what that would be.
Yep. When people buy high performance or luxury cars, part of the mystique is that it is the latest evolution of some sort of classic. It's going to be hard for BMW et al to position electric vehicles as belonging to any existing lineage. This puts their brand at risk unless they can figure out how to make a remarkable electric car. But nobody really knows what that would be.
Note luxury car market.
It's all about brand, and quick acceleration times so you can show off on the road.
New is cool & electric cars have acceleration.
Also German cars companies have had their reputation tarnished with the emissions cheating scandal.
I wouldn't see the 'autopilot' feature as a big draw - you'd be mad to use that on most European roads, and you buy cars like that to drive
New is cool & electric cars have acceleration.
Also German cars companies have had their reputation tarnished with the emissions cheating scandal.
I wouldn't see the 'autopilot' feature as a big draw - you'd be mad to use that on most European roads, and you buy cars like that to drive
Pet peeve from the first line: bemusement means confusion, not amusement.
I remember when newspapers had editors who cared about what words meant.
I remember when newspapers had editors who cared about what words meant.
I often wonder what would have happened to the American auto industry if the US Gov’t had not bailed them out. Would we have multiple Tesla-like electric powered automobile companies today? Probably not. But just a thought.
If Tesla went bankrupt, would all the other manufacturers just stop producing / developing electric cars? Are they doing it now just out of fear of losing the market to Tesla?
If that were the case, for the sake of humanity and the environment, we should be obliged to support Tesla exclusively, otherwise we will never free ourselves from diesel / gas based pollution machines.
If that were the case, for the sake of humanity and the environment, we should be obliged to support Tesla exclusively, otherwise we will never free ourselves from diesel / gas based pollution machines.
Personally, I don’t think the major move happening right now is from gasoline cars to EVs. The major move is from cars to no cars. Tesla will not be a great trillion dollar company in this scenario. It will be just another car manufacturer.
Doesnt catch me off guard, europeans love modern, they love high tech, they love american brands as status symbols and they are very, very environmentally aware. Even if the Tesla isnt all that better than the really small engine's already in most cars here, it is perceived as a social statement and lifestyle. Not to mention it is unique compared to all the AUDI/VW/BMW's on the road here.
Is this some kind of bloody joke? In how much of a deep sleep do you have to be to be caught "off guard" by Tesla?
I told my dealer 2years ago that I'm going to postpone replacing my kia cee'd diesel till electric become available in that class. We aren't there yet, but it's promising, now Kia/Hyundai do have couple of BEV models.
The German car makers' arrogance and complacency cannot be overstated.
Like iPhone took Nokia "off guard" in 2009, after 2 years it was a thing. These wise executives definitely deserve their big pay!
I dont know whats going on with those numbers but sales in Norway and Holland are 80-90% down. They stopped with the tax benefits.
IMO, Tesla needs to branch into 80% complete coachbuilder models and in a roundabout way, have a dealership in any town (or country) and shakeup the industry a little more for sh!TS and giggles.
Once their production hits its stride and has a surplus of models, they can bring oldworld craftsmanship to a modern canvas.
With the limited model lineup, who wouldn`t want a bespoke Tesla personalized just for them.
I would still pick the 7-speed dogleg manual in the Vantage S, but a personalized Tesla would be a close second.
Once their production hits its stride and has a surplus of models, they can bring oldworld craftsmanship to a modern canvas.
With the limited model lineup, who wouldn`t want a bespoke Tesla personalized just for them.
I would still pick the 7-speed dogleg manual in the Vantage S, but a personalized Tesla would be a close second.
I wonder what will happen in Japan. Toyota is still pushing hydrogen fuel cells as the future and hybrids as the present.
Competition is gooood!
What I don't conflate with "Iphone moment" is that European car companies are not Nokias and there are no Elop style saboteurs in them. All of them are used to "fight to bitter end" mentality, even though they haven't had such a moment when they really needed to for a very long time.
What I don't conflate with "Iphone moment" is that European car companies are not Nokias and there are no Elop style saboteurs in them. All of them are used to "fight to bitter end" mentality, even though they haven't had such a moment when they really needed to for a very long time.
Sounds like "industry" is as stupid as the short sellers.
I wonder whether Tesla will survive the current global economic contagion. They are essentially a luxury novelty vehicle manufacturer that relies heavily on subsidies and virtue signaling consumers of which there are a finite amount.
They are the WeWork of the car industry and have interesting financials.
Despite all this they have been a terrific r&d and mvp creator for potential future electric vehicle production, although there is much work to be done scaling electrical grids and vehicle recycling IMO
EVs are in a segment with high discretionary spend. Choices in discretionary spending are notoriously bound up in non-rational choices: I could invest in diamonds, or snort it as coke, or fly to the bahamas in a helicopter is totally different lifestyle choices to "I need to get to Walmart at 3am for diapers, and I cannot afford to pay for more than basic AirConditioning"
When EVs are in the segment of rational-decision bound purchases, when they are "boring" I will deem them to have succeeded.
As long as the competition is Fiskar, not VW, and Not the Ioniq, or other Japanese low-end EV, its not baked yet.
The low-end EV have to get about 50% more efficiency and drop price about 30%. There really is a sweet spot in most people's disposable income and on-road costs and range anxiety (also a highly irrational place btw) which is just around the corner:
under $20,000 in any local economy over 300km range in real-life chargeable for usable amounts (10%? 20%?) in under 15min