Ask HN: Where to live internationally while learning to program?
8 comments
You might want to look into an internship or classes abroad: really, any sort of structured program. Unless you’re a hardcore autodidact, the combination of interesting everywhere and an unfamiliar, difficult subject might be too much, and you’ll end up not learning at all. This is almost a cliché with writers and artists, where they go abroad to be inspired and make art, and only come back inspired. As Dorothy Gambrell put it:
"Someone who shouldn’t be in charge of these things gave me a grant to make a short film about tourism in Western Europe. So between the manufacture of the last cartoon and this one I left North America for the first time, spending about three weeks in the UK-France-Germany-Italy. What did I get out of the trip? 'Elgin waffles.’” http://catandgirl.com/?p=1606
"Someone who shouldn’t be in charge of these things gave me a grant to make a short film about tourism in Western Europe. So between the manufacture of the last cartoon and this one I left North America for the first time, spending about three weeks in the UK-France-Germany-Italy. What did I get out of the trip? 'Elgin waffles.’” http://catandgirl.com/?p=1606
If you are not very traveled in Asia I recommend Singapore, everybody speaks English, the food is terrific, the weather is warm, and have a nice tech scene. I really like Philippines, a easy going and down to earth people. Good food, not as good as the Thai or Indian cuisine.
I know much better South and Central America. I recommend you Colombia (Cartagena de Indias is quite popular among Americans, but I prefer other places) and Costa Rica.
(Disclosure I am from Spain, but I haven't been there for ages).
Spain is also a great place to live. Very easy going people, lots of expats in South Spain, Barcelona Madrid or Bilbao. An world class food experience, extremely 'Fiesta' oriented and vibrant culture. In cities like Granada or Malaga a share flat with two people can cost around $250. From Malaga using Ryan Air and other low cost companies you can fly almost to anywhere in Europe for around $50-$70. You can also try to emulate Hemingway and be a bull runner in Pamplona.
Dont forget about Mexico!
I know much better South and Central America. I recommend you Colombia (Cartagena de Indias is quite popular among Americans, but I prefer other places) and Costa Rica.
(Disclosure I am from Spain, but I haven't been there for ages).
Spain is also a great place to live. Very easy going people, lots of expats in South Spain, Barcelona Madrid or Bilbao. An world class food experience, extremely 'Fiesta' oriented and vibrant culture. In cities like Granada or Malaga a share flat with two people can cost around $250. From Malaga using Ryan Air and other low cost companies you can fly almost to anywhere in Europe for around $50-$70. You can also try to emulate Hemingway and be a bull runner in Pamplona.
Dont forget about Mexico!
Asia or Latin America: a bit broad my friend :-) Do you prefer big cities or relaxed countryside? What kind of things would you like to do? If you don't like mountains, Nepal is not the right country etc.
If I had to pick one place in each:
South America: Buenos Aires, Argentina. A european touch, affordable prices, great culture & nightlife, a beautiful country. There are also a few tech companies there so there might be user groups etc
Asia: I haven't been there, but I heard good things about Kuala Lumpur. Malaysia is quite a diverse country, and there is a thriving developer & entrepreneur community there.
Coincidentally, I'm about to live internationally and start my business. I'm going to travel 5 months in South-East Asia, staying for a few weeks/months in each location. My first stop will be... Kuala Lumpur :-)
If I had to pick one place in each:
South America: Buenos Aires, Argentina. A european touch, affordable prices, great culture & nightlife, a beautiful country. There are also a few tech companies there so there might be user groups etc
Asia: I haven't been there, but I heard good things about Kuala Lumpur. Malaysia is quite a diverse country, and there is a thriving developer & entrepreneur community there.
Coincidentally, I'm about to live internationally and start my business. I'm going to travel 5 months in South-East Asia, staying for a few weeks/months in each location. My first stop will be... Kuala Lumpur :-)
If you've not travelled much, then perhaps South America might be an easier introduction than asia, and some basic Spanish is probably easier to pick up than the majority of non-European languages.
Im currently in medellin, colombia, 2Mb/s broadband with cable tv,phone, costs around $50/month, and my reasonable sized apartment is $370/month (6 month contract). In buenos aires, rentals were almost double for something similar (capital city pricing), and rio was slightly more expensive again (the Brazilian Real is very strong at the moment). If you would prefer not to stay in one place then most countries have 3g in major cities and usually you can find a prepaid plan which is reasonably priced as long as you use it for browsing rather than lots of youtube.
India, and thailand are less expensive than latin america, but it would be harder to learn the language and you'll more likely be spending time with other travellers. Although, given you're on a gap year, then travellers hangouts in asia (beachs, mountains etc) could be fun. I enjoyed Salvador in Brazil, lots of live music and dancing, Rio not so much, Buenos Aires feels very european in a good way, and it has the liveliness of a capital city. I've heard good things about Chang Mai and the islands in Thailand. I spent several years in India and it is very cheap and very different , but except for Goa is generally not so much of a party place compared to say, Thailand. In some places, craigslist will give you a rough idea of apartment pricing - although often there are many agents charging ridiculous prices, so find ads from private landlords to get a rough idea. Otherwise use hostelbookers.com or hostelworld.com , as a proxy for rental prices. Lonely Planet thorntree forums are probably worth a search to get some kind of idea of a destination and/or prices.
Im currently in medellin, colombia, 2Mb/s broadband with cable tv,phone, costs around $50/month, and my reasonable sized apartment is $370/month (6 month contract). In buenos aires, rentals were almost double for something similar (capital city pricing), and rio was slightly more expensive again (the Brazilian Real is very strong at the moment). If you would prefer not to stay in one place then most countries have 3g in major cities and usually you can find a prepaid plan which is reasonably priced as long as you use it for browsing rather than lots of youtube.
India, and thailand are less expensive than latin america, but it would be harder to learn the language and you'll more likely be spending time with other travellers. Although, given you're on a gap year, then travellers hangouts in asia (beachs, mountains etc) could be fun. I enjoyed Salvador in Brazil, lots of live music and dancing, Rio not so much, Buenos Aires feels very european in a good way, and it has the liveliness of a capital city. I've heard good things about Chang Mai and the islands in Thailand. I spent several years in India and it is very cheap and very different , but except for Goa is generally not so much of a party place compared to say, Thailand. In some places, craigslist will give you a rough idea of apartment pricing - although often there are many agents charging ridiculous prices, so find ads from private landlords to get a rough idea. Otherwise use hostelbookers.com or hostelworld.com , as a proxy for rental prices. Lonely Planet thorntree forums are probably worth a search to get some kind of idea of a destination and/or prices.
I don't think language is a problem in India in cities like Bangalore [I'm currently staying here]. Anyone knowing English can survive here.
In terms of expenses also the broadband along with phone would be under $50/month. Also in terms of accommodation you could get a good sized apartment for $300/month.
And there are other places to look around in India other than Goa :) Can't speak much about places outside of India though.
Although it would depend on what @hacktravel wants to do while travelling too.
> 3. If there are any programs that would speed up my learning that would be great but it is not required. I don't even know if there are things like this...
I'm not sure what you [@hacktravel] mean by this. Are you talking of training programs of some sort? Or tech conferences?
In terms of expenses also the broadband along with phone would be under $50/month. Also in terms of accommodation you could get a good sized apartment for $300/month.
And there are other places to look around in India other than Goa :) Can't speak much about places outside of India though.
Although it would depend on what @hacktravel wants to do while travelling too.
> 3. If there are any programs that would speed up my learning that would be great but it is not required. I don't even know if there are things like this...
I'm not sure what you [@hacktravel] mean by this. Are you talking of training programs of some sort? Or tech conferences?
Thanks for the helpful response.
How has your time in Bangalore been?
While traveling, I would like to eat tasty food. Having a good night life in the city I am is ideal. Being able to visit beautiful nature and sites to see in and around where I am staying is great. Still not 100% sure what I want out of my travels 100% but I hope that gives a bit of a better picture.
As far as a program, it could be anything from university classes (unlikely to work on my timeframe, to the ability of getting quality local tutors to help me, to something like the Hacker Dojo http://wiki.hackerdojo.com/w/page/25437/FrontPage). Anything that could accelerate my learning.
How has your time in Bangalore been?
While traveling, I would like to eat tasty food. Having a good night life in the city I am is ideal. Being able to visit beautiful nature and sites to see in and around where I am staying is great. Still not 100% sure what I want out of my travels 100% but I hope that gives a bit of a better picture.
As far as a program, it could be anything from university classes (unlikely to work on my timeframe, to the ability of getting quality local tutors to help me, to something like the Hacker Dojo http://wiki.hackerdojo.com/w/page/25437/FrontPage). Anything that could accelerate my learning.
Rent an apartment in Italy, Amalfi coast or Florence, and when not studying, meet and greet beautiful girls!
But if you don't speak foreign languages, I would consider n. Europe as many of them speak good English and you won't feel so alienated. You can also sign up for prog. courses in English abroad. Also, if you are not a super duper independent learner, being in a class or in a study group will get the best bang in the shortest time.
But if you don't speak foreign languages, I would consider n. Europe as many of them speak good English and you won't feel so alienated. You can also sign up for prog. courses in English abroad. Also, if you are not a super duper independent learner, being in a class or in a study group will get the best bang in the shortest time.
Dane here. Northern Europe is definitely an easy place to stay for a foreigner, but if you want to stay in a major city, rent is not going to be cheap, and food etc. is pretty expensive as well.
SE Asia.. cheap once you're there, easy to travel around. great experience. They might have slow internet though
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Here are the criteria that I am considering:
1. Relatively low cost compared to living in the U.S., thus somewhere in Asia or Latin America would probably be ideal
2. A fun place to live for a ~6 month period. I have barely traveled outside of the U.S. so I think this would be a good opportunity to immerse myself in another culture and see a different part of the world.
3. If there are any programs that would speed up my learning that would be great but it is not required. I don't even know if there are things like this...
A little more about me and my motivation for this: I am a college student on a gap year who is very interested in start ups. I have worked on the business side of a start up for 7 months and now want to try learning programming to see how I like it and so I can start trying to build cool things without worrying about finding a technical co-founder. I have about 2 college courses worth of programming know how. I want to balance the learning programming with the traveling/enjoying being in a very different location