I’ve given up using soap & shampoo forever(blog.seanbonner.com)
blog.seanbonner.com
I’ve given up using soap & shampoo forever
http://blog.seanbonner.com/2010/02/01/ive-given-up-using-soap/
31 comments
I have been doing this for a few months. Some notes:
I always had oily skin, and it seems to me now my skin was likely overreacting to the use of soap as it now is a lot more stable and to me it just feels finally "right", no longer needing to so frequently wash my face. I also believe tone and texture are better.
Soap. I do use it when for whatever reason I become "actually dirty", like handling greasy stuff, or after swimming in a pool (chlorine or salt water), after outdoor play, etc. And yes, for the nether regions, er, daily.
Shampoo., It's definitely much easier with shorter hair, and during the warm months. As weather gets colder it's hard not to think I could benefit from a little shampoo/conditioner, most noticeably right out of the shower my hair becomes harder to manage and I have to make more "adjustments" as time passes. But during summer, no issues at all. Or perhaps is related to humidity? Anyway, I am sure I will be relenting and using some shampoo/conditioner the next few months.
For odors, I have a quite reliable barometer, my little daughter and wife always notice when it's time to get cleaner, and it is my observation that their admonishments have been conspicuously absent in the few months I've been doing this, still unbeknownst to them.
I always had oily skin, and it seems to me now my skin was likely overreacting to the use of soap as it now is a lot more stable and to me it just feels finally "right", no longer needing to so frequently wash my face. I also believe tone and texture are better.
Soap. I do use it when for whatever reason I become "actually dirty", like handling greasy stuff, or after swimming in a pool (chlorine or salt water), after outdoor play, etc. And yes, for the nether regions, er, daily.
Shampoo., It's definitely much easier with shorter hair, and during the warm months. As weather gets colder it's hard not to think I could benefit from a little shampoo/conditioner, most noticeably right out of the shower my hair becomes harder to manage and I have to make more "adjustments" as time passes. But during summer, no issues at all. Or perhaps is related to humidity? Anyway, I am sure I will be relenting and using some shampoo/conditioner the next few months.
For odors, I have a quite reliable barometer, my little daughter and wife always notice when it's time to get cleaner, and it is my observation that their admonishments have been conspicuously absent in the few months I've been doing this, still unbeknownst to them.
As a person with hereditary skin issues (both my dad and grandad have suffered for years, and now it's setting in for me), I'm definitely going to try it - my father and I already noticed a big shift when changing from scented to unscented shampoos and soaps - I'm willing to give the no-soap a go to calm down the rest of my skin - cheers. I'll comment again if I notice a sudden down-tick in the number of people willing to spend time with me ;)
I have given up soap, shampoo, deodorant...etc...due to serious health issues. For me, it was a gradual progression. I add salt to my bath water. If you have serious skin issues, I would recommend a salt water bath. Kosher or "canning/pickling" salt is better than table salt. A good quality, high brine sea salt is better still.
Good luck with this.
Good luck with this.
Look forward to hearing about this. I switched away from using shampoo and only washing with soap bars recently and that helped a great deal.
I think I would be better served by getting plainer/more natural soap bars than not using soap at all, but I'm still curious about the results of this.
I think I would be better served by getting plainer/more natural soap bars than not using soap at all, but I'm still curious about the results of this.
I'm guessing the transition period can be made much more tolerable with a little effort. For example take a bottle of shower gel, and every time it's half empty fill it with water.
I'm tempted to try it. Last time I didn't shower for over a week (hiking trip) I remember my skin looked and felt surprisingly healthy. Hair too.
I'm tempted to try it. Last time I didn't shower for over a week (hiking trip) I remember my skin looked and felt surprisingly healthy. Hair too.
I'm on 2+ months. The first 2 weeks were pretty hard to deal with. Now I feel cleaner than before. I don't seem any less clean.
I don't use shampoo or any of that crap either, but I clip my hair weekly at 1/4".
A washcloth is key.
Now that's the weather is colder, my skin doesn't feel dry or cracked anymore.
It's no big deal, really. I pass the wife test, too. I don't have any mission or paleo-ideology behind it, I just read a couple blog posts and was minorly curious and tried it.
I don't use shampoo or any of that crap either, but I clip my hair weekly at 1/4".
A washcloth is key.
Now that's the weather is colder, my skin doesn't feel dry or cracked anymore.
It's no big deal, really. I pass the wife test, too. I don't have any mission or paleo-ideology behind it, I just read a couple blog posts and was minorly curious and tried it.
How about using soap on half your body and objectively observing the difference? A lot of these self-run experiments run into confirmation bias.
Y'know i just use very small quantities of both.
It has helped the quality of my hair and my skin does not dry out anymore.
I haven't used shampoo since I was maybe 10. No problems to report.
I have been using soap and shampoo all my life and I also have no problems to report.
Except maybe those unnecessary consumables you've been paying for all this time? ;-)
Well, I'm yet to be convinced that they're unnecessary. Besides, if I'm gonna start regretting every unnecessary consumable I've ever paid for I should probably start with, say, tequila or croissants which have additional deleterious effects.
On a risk/reward scale, giving up on shampoo and soap just doesn't seem to cut it. The best I'm going to do is save a few tens of dollars a year, while the worst I'm going to do is have everybody who encounters me react subtly worse to me, perhaps without even knowing why.
I'm willing to pay the cost of the soap just in order to have the peace of mind of knowing that if people do dislike me then at least it's not because I'm filthy.
On a risk/reward scale, giving up on shampoo and soap just doesn't seem to cut it. The best I'm going to do is save a few tens of dollars a year, while the worst I'm going to do is have everybody who encounters me react subtly worse to me, perhaps without even knowing why.
I'm willing to pay the cost of the soap just in order to have the peace of mind of knowing that if people do dislike me then at least it's not because I'm filthy.
Interesting. I used to shampoo my hair every day, but found out that the more you shampoo it the more oil your hair produces and thus the faster it gets "dirty". So I switched to only doing it twice a week and I have not noticed any negative effect. I think I am going to try dropping it altogether.
Do you use any hair products at all like gel or wax?
Do you use any hair products at all like gel or wax?
Do you have a source for that? I have super curly hair and in a futile attempt to manage it I researched hair care for a morning a few weeks ago.
If you didn't know curly hair tends to become dry towards the ends. This is due to the natural oils not being able to reach the ends because of the curls. I found a few sites advocating shampooing about once every two weeks to let the oils do their thing (along with moisturizing conditioner every day).
That being said my hair is still a mess so I'd love to see if I am "doing it wrong".
If you didn't know curly hair tends to become dry towards the ends. This is due to the natural oils not being able to reach the ends because of the curls. I found a few sites advocating shampooing about once every two weeks to let the oils do their thing (along with moisturizing conditioner every day).
That being said my hair is still a mess so I'd love to see if I am "doing it wrong".
I also have super curly hair. I only use conditioner, no shampoo unless my scalp needs extra cleaning, which is very rarely. And I use hair products like gel and spray. Conditioner combed through my hair and then rinsed out removes all hair products.
Check out the DevaCurl starter kit - it has "NoPoo" shampoo, which is shampoo without harsh sulfates, conditioner, gel, and spray. Their products are great for curly hair.
No source. I just found that shampooing every day caused my hair to get really oily if I missed a single day of shampoo. After not shampooing for an entire week I went down to doing it twice a week and excess oil is no longer an issue.
I have semi-curly hair as well. Going to give no shampoo at all a shot next.
I have semi-curly hair as well. Going to give no shampoo at all a shot next.
I have the same problen and tried limiting my shampoo schedule on the suggestion of a friend and gave up after about six months. It didn't work out so well for the manageability of my hair or for its comfort. The best way I've found to manage my curly hair is to keep it short.
> Do you use any hair products at all like gel or wax?
I do not. I'm guessing that if you use gel or wax you pretty much HAVE to shampoo your hair.
I've never thought about my hair very much, but now that I am thinking about it, the entire industry of shampoo/styling/shampoo seems... profligate at best, and predatory at worst.
I do not. I'm guessing that if you use gel or wax you pretty much HAVE to shampoo your hair.
I've never thought about my hair very much, but now that I am thinking about it, the entire industry of shampoo/styling/shampoo seems... profligate at best, and predatory at worst.
Like you, I used to use shampoo everyday. I've been doing the no shampoo experiment for about a month now, and found that I no longer need any styling products (I used to use a bit of clay on occasion). I just kind of use my hands to style it and it stays how I like it.
Cool story, bro.
It kinda makes sense; soap is for dissolving stuff that you can't rinse off your skin. The bits of your body which are covered by clothes generally don't acquire much such gunk, they just get sweaty. He still washes his hands using soap, so I'm not too concerned about his health. I'd like to see him maintain his "no soap" rule after a day spent working under a car, though.
It kinda makes sense; soap is for dissolving stuff that you can't rinse off your skin. The bits of your body which are covered by clothes generally don't acquire much such gunk, they just get sweaty. He still washes his hands using soap, so I'm not too concerned about his health. I'd like to see him maintain his "no soap" rule after a day spent working under a car, though.
Water, especially hot water, is an unbelievably effective solvent (something often overlooked despite the fact that its known as the Universal Solvent).
Still, I'd worry about bacteria growth (which is, in my mind, the value added of soap) - though the author claims he smells better now.
Still, I'd worry about bacteria growth (which is, in my mind, the value added of soap) - though the author claims he smells better now.
One important issue is polarity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility#Polarity. If you are soaked in grease, you want soap. Granted, he's inspired by the whole caveman lifestyle thing, we didn't have Chevron 40,000 years ago.
Heated, filtered, chlorinated water is an amenity he can live with, though!
Don't forget that some bacteria is quite normal (and necessary). Soap might kill some of this friendly bacteria.
Pretty sure normal soap doesn't usually kill bacteria. It just removes it mechanically. At least that's how it deals with virus particles. That's why proper hand washing procedure isn't "use a lot of soap and let it sit on your hand", but "scrub everywhere while singing the alphabet song".
I NEVER use soap to wash my hands. I almost never get sick.
I think it's down to technique.
a) use the hottest water you can stand. With practice you can get it pretty hot.
b) scrub your hands together completely, vigorously, and for a good 20 to 30 seconds.
I think it's down to technique.
a) use the hottest water you can stand. With practice you can get it pretty hot.
b) scrub your hands together completely, vigorously, and for a good 20 to 30 seconds.
At my university, the microbiology class did a test every year to see how well people wash their hands. They were instructed to was their hands in scolding water for four minutes with antibacterial soap. Turns out, even after that they still had more than half the bacteria left on their hands. This of course says nothing about whether you'll get sick.
EDIT: Also, don't try to pull any of this at a hospital. In those situations you can't afford to take chances (as in when others' health is at risk).
EDIT: Also, don't try to pull any of this at a hospital. In those situations you can't afford to take chances (as in when others' health is at risk).
Same here except they do get washed with soap when I do the dishes. Why would you get sick if you don't wash your hands? Because they touch food? You have nothing to worry about, you can eat food from the ground and you won't get sick. Rather than worrying about dirtiness, worry about too old food (especially bread with fungus, I did become sick when I ate that, but I hear it's dangerous).
Not really for fat/oil. When I do the dishes without soap it just doesn't work at all. Just a little bit of soap and you get rid of fat/oil so easily.
Talcum powder makes an effective deodorant in my opinion. Much better than the slide on gels in the market. However it lasts only for about 8-10 hours.
I use magnesium hydroxide, usually sold as a laxative. It is nearly the same thing as the active ingredient in most deodorants, except it isn't an antiperspirant nor is scented nor has a creamy consistency, etc. It's also really cheap, and you can buy by the liter.
Are there any major studies regarding the effect of the increasing amount of chemicals we're taking into our bodies in the modern day?
Everyday I breath in tons of chemicals like nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide, water vapor, etc. My height and, so I assume, lung capacity hasn't increased much over the last few years so I'd estimate that I've been taking in a constant amount of chemicals with each breath over this period.
I'll lay 10 to 1 that he hasn't.
I dunno. I've been completely shampoo free for about 10 months, and soap on anything but my hands is a pretty rare occurrence. Things seem to be going well for me. Your mileage may vary.
This seems like good advice for getting rid of bad habits:
"just because I did something yesterday is not a good enough reason to do it today"
Gotta keep that in mind.
"just because I did something yesterday is not a good enough reason to do it today"
Gotta keep that in mind.
Interesting. His problem of dry skin went away. What about people that have oily skin?
Almost completely unscientific answer:
I have dry skin and can vouch for the fact that your body tends to "find a balance" if you stop using soap, and I would imagine that it would be similar for those with oily skin (it could be that you are creating a lot of oil because the soap is drying out your skin.
On the other hand, you may find that you just end up even oilier.
The only way to truly find out would be to test it yourself. You may just want to try a less drying soap so your body doesn't need to generate as much oil.
I have dry skin and can vouch for the fact that your body tends to "find a balance" if you stop using soap, and I would imagine that it would be similar for those with oily skin (it could be that you are creating a lot of oil because the soap is drying out your skin.
On the other hand, you may find that you just end up even oilier.
The only way to truly find out would be to test it yourself. You may just want to try a less drying soap so your body doesn't need to generate as much oil.
Single data point: I had oily skin in my teens and early 20s, stopped using shampoo and limited my soap use in my mid 20s, and have had people who use many products to maintain their excellent skin remark on how nice mine is. Haven't tried going back onto facial soap to test how much of that is due to aging.
I don't know if this is true, but i have a theory.
Shampoo removes natural oils from the hair. The scalp responds by increasing it's production so you get oilier hair. It could be that the same happens with shampoo.
Shampoo removes natural oils from the hair. The scalp responds by increasing it's production so you get oilier hair. It could be that the same happens with shampoo.
I stopped using shaving cream years ago thanks to this article: http://www.lewrockwell.com/tucker/tucker65.html
Turns out using shaving cream makes you dependent on it.
Yeah, I've never used shaving cream. Easiest time to shave is just out of a hot shower. I don't even bother with any oils. Wet the face, and you're good to go.
I don't use it myself. I use olive oil if needed. Some people recommend using a thinner oil, but I like this and it works for me.
I also don't use conditioner. Never seen the point. My hair is just fine. I've gone without shampoo too, and just whatever soap I use.
I also don't use conditioner. Never seen the point. My hair is just fine. I've gone without shampoo too, and just whatever soap I use.
You don't need conditioner (or, for that matter, probably even shampoo) if your hair's short. I only started using conditioner when I grew mine out.
I stopped using shaving cream years ago because it occluded my view of my face when I shaved. When I did use it, I always missed a spot and so had this awkward little soul patch somewhere on my face that I had to nail without the cream or else go into work with.
I switched to a shaving lotion made by an all natural company, can't remember off top of my head, but it works way better than shaving cream.
About 7 years ago, I ditched canned shaving cream for the old-style mug/soap/brush method. Works great, and very cheap.
The thing very few people realize is that you don't really get notably dirty or smelly underneath your clothes (exception being certain odor where the sun doesn't shine). If you work up a sweat for a long time, it's a different issue in terms of smell, but there's really not any dirt underneath the clothes to talk about other than epithelieals - which is nothing that water alone can't handle. I don't use soap when showering and I smell just fine, but I do use shampoo for my hair, and deodorant under the arms.
I've been doing no shampoo/soap only where it matters for about 6 months now and can only report positives. I don't smell, I still shower daily (showers being shorter now). Win in my mind.
I heard about a similar story in college and decided to try it out over 15 years ago. My roommate's uncle was a doctor and a big fan of not using soap and shampoo. The first 2 weeks were tough - very oily. But I stuck it out and then my body adjusted. I could really tell that my body was producing less oil and I felt cleaner throughout the day. So I kept on going, and for the next 10 years I didn't use soap and shampoo in the shower. When people found out, most were grossed out. But it felt right. About 5 years ago, I started to use shampoo cause it would let me wash my hair faster (just using water takes longer). But I use a gentle and natural shampoo (current from Melvita). I still don't use soap cause I feel like it strips too much natural/good body oil from my body and isn't good for me. Anyway, it's refreshing to see a post like this. And in all places, at HN.
I stopped showering with soap and shampoo in high school after a bout of dry skin. After a transition period of length similar to the author's, I saw the same improvements. Today, I use soap (though not antibacterial) when cooking and whenever I'm covered in something like grease or rosin (hey, it happens) that could use the extra help soap affords. I only use the tiniest bit of shampoo to assist in getting the itchy little hair bits out after a haircut.
While I have personally gained from the benefits of this experiment, I'm not a fan of the rationalizations some use to justify minimalism/naturalism/whatever you'll call it -- the arguments that run along the lines of "we didn't need it years ago, why do we need it today?" As an engineer, I find this wholesale skepticism of technology especially repugnant. Thus, I really appreciate that Sean frames this in terms of experimentation and checking hypotheses--be they self or socially formed. That is cool.
While I have personally gained from the benefits of this experiment, I'm not a fan of the rationalizations some use to justify minimalism/naturalism/whatever you'll call it -- the arguments that run along the lines of "we didn't need it years ago, why do we need it today?" As an engineer, I find this wholesale skepticism of technology especially repugnant. Thus, I really appreciate that Sean frames this in terms of experimentation and checking hypotheses--be they self or socially formed. That is cool.
I've been trying to cut back on soap/shampoo for a few years now. Currently I shower daily, occasionally twice depending on workout schedule. I have a few natural, non/naturally scented soaps and shampoos which I use sparingly.
The one area where I really have noticed a need for shampoo is my beard and mustache - even when being extremely careful when eating, after a day or two it can start to get grimy. I typically rinse with water as needed and use Bluebeard's Beard Wash about 2x week. I've noticed a huge improvement since using a beard wash.
Love to hear if anyone has other beard advice.
The one area where I really have noticed a need for shampoo is my beard and mustache - even when being extremely careful when eating, after a day or two it can start to get grimy. I typically rinse with water as needed and use Bluebeard's Beard Wash about 2x week. I've noticed a huge improvement since using a beard wash.
Love to hear if anyone has other beard advice.
I prefer washing with rest.
Also note that for some people problems like dry skin, dandruff and a few bowel issues can be caused by an over-abundance of yeast in the gut. A good preventative measure for this is to take coconut oil as a supplement.
I can't speak for soap but I know I have never used shaving gel/cream, or whatever you call it, in my 29 years. And it's all fine. So maybe these guys are just trying to get us to spend money.
I wish that worked for me. Every time I skipped the shaving cream, I'd get nicks all over the place, even with a fresh blade. Maybe my skin is thinner than yours. Do you just use water? Or do you use soap in place of shaving gel?
I also stopped using shaving cream. My method is as follows. Turn shower up just slightly hotter than will kill you. Sit on floor of tub and just let water soak your head and face. The extra distance to the floor of the shower is why the water should be hotter than is normally tolerable. Now just sit there and enjoy your sauna/steam. After a good time soaking I am now very relaxed and the hair on my face should be super soft. I then grab the razer, just a normal disposable, and do a blind shave while sitting under the hot water. When I'm done, turn the water temp down a bit and clean up the missed bits in a mirror. The whole process is very relaxing and easy and takes only a few minutes.
Soaking your face in scalding water is relaxing and easy?
I'm surprised this has so many comments (it seems to be #3 by comments on the first two pages), but I guess I'm not surprised that programmers don't wash their hair.
I'm surprised this has so many comments (it seems to be #3 by comments on the first two pages), but I guess I'm not surprised that programmers don't wash their hair.
Soap sometimes if I want to shave completely. Otherwise I just dry-shave. But I do use my cologne afterwards to kill bacteria or anything that may cause irritations later.
After a while that stops. I used to get cuts and bad razor burn, right after I stopped, but I don't anymore.
I have not used shapoo/soap for my hair and body for more than 10 years now(my skin was not happy with soap). Have not had any issues(and I shower everyday). Also I try to use hot water whenever I can instead of soap. In my case this has more to do with sensibility than for the environment. Also I feel that, not only shampoos & soaps may actually not be good for the body, the real way to have health hair and skin is having proper nutrition and good life-style.
In my experience, this does not work.
I gave up on shampoo for about a month and a half, but I still used conditioner. I never used soap on my body when showering to begin with, except for ahem the bottom area.
It actually worked for a little while; the conditioner dissolved the grease out of my hair (like dissolves like). But then for about a week my hair was determined to stay greasy and no amount of conditioner would get it out. So I gave up and started using shampoo again.
There's a reason that in the old days everyone wore hats or bonnets regularly.
I gave up on shampoo for about a month and a half, but I still used conditioner. I never used soap on my body when showering to begin with, except for ahem the bottom area.
It actually worked for a little while; the conditioner dissolved the grease out of my hair (like dissolves like). But then for about a week my hair was determined to stay greasy and no amount of conditioner would get it out. So I gave up and started using shampoo again.
There's a reason that in the old days everyone wore hats or bonnets regularly.
Conditioner is meant to restore the moisture to your hair that shampoo takes. It makes sense that by only using conditioner your hair felt greasy.
Conditioners are designed to completely wash out of your hair with just water. It wasn't that the conditioner wasn't getting washed out, it was that at some point it was insufficient to deal with the grease issue.
At least it makes a whole lot more sense than trying to wash your hair with just water, which is completely incapable of getting rid of grease.
At least it makes a whole lot more sense than trying to wash your hair with just water, which is completely incapable of getting rid of grease.
I think the point of the experiment is to get rid of all chemicals. Like for shampoo, you don't know what the effects of the conditioner are, and what would happen to your hair.
Well obviously I wasn't following his experiment. It was from a book on how to deal with my particular kind of hair (which is rather difficult).
In that case it's pretty disingenuous of you to claim that "In my experience, this does not work," seeing as you did not, in fact, experience this.
My hair gets really greasy if I don't wash it with shampoo. That would be my one concern if I were to try this experiment. From what the article was saying, I got the impression that the body evens everything out, but I'm not sure if his hair behaves the same ways as mine. This experiment probably only works well for a certain subset of people.
Some of what i read was funny.You don't use soap but you use what amounts to a corporate advertising gimmick deodorant. Probably much worse for you on the whole. I don't use deodorant because I eat pretty well which I believe results in what your body excretes so the issue of deodorant isn't so important as I shower once or twice a day depending on activity.Good luck but I am not clear what is to be gained
I've reduced my shampoo and soap usage after reading the same article with largely positive results. I'm not sure how I feel about no soap after ice hockey - will have to see. I've always used Dove and have avoided regular soaps, which leave your skin unhealthily dry. Ads for Zest always make me cringe - I don't want to squeak thank you.
I also lived in Shanghai for some time, where the air is filled with dust and dirt. I'm not sure I could go without soap there.
I also lived in Shanghai for some time, where the air is filled with dust and dirt. I'm not sure I could go without soap there.
Sounds to me like he's some sort of "born-again virgin".
I tried this when it made the HN rounds about a year ago. My results were over about three months and my primary reason was to assist treating moderate eczema. I stopped using all soap and shampoo and just stuck with hot-as-hell water. My skin did get better, but after about two months my hair began to naturally dread. After I looked back on my notes of this endeavor I decided to use some scent-free shampoo to prevent dreads. I use soap to clean up when I finish painting/working on a car or other dirty project. I also use it before I prepare food for my family and friends. My hair did never really 'feel' right, much more like a dogs fur than clean hair. It didn't smell bad it just felt different and didn't behave.
The interesting thing that came out of my tracking this impromptu 'shower log' of no soap use - I was able to correlate my severe eczema outbreaks with inhaling allergens. In my case, breathing in pine dust & glue particulate causes outbreaks. I now wear my painting respirator 75% of the time in the shop and have very few incidents.
The interesting thing that came out of my tracking this impromptu 'shower log' of no soap use - I was able to correlate my severe eczema outbreaks with inhaling allergens. In my case, breathing in pine dust & glue particulate causes outbreaks. I now wear my painting respirator 75% of the time in the shop and have very few incidents.
Seems to be working out so far. I have long hair (for a guy, anyway), and I have a tough time not using shampoo. I suppose, in theory, if I stopped using long enough for my scalp to stop over-producing oils to replace what's routinely stripped out due to washing shampoo, then it wouldn't be a big problem (that, or I'd simply get accustomed to the feeling of my hair with natural oils). Frankly, though, I'd probably be more inclined to simply start shaving my head to avoid shampoo.
Different strokes for different folks, and all that. Everyone has their boundaries when it comes to personal hygiene, and we should all respect those boundaries. However, upon close examination, the daily bathing/hygiene rituals modern (US, Western, ???) life does seem a bit excessive. If we didn't coat ourselves with so much "stuff" (deodorant, conditioner, hair spray/gel, perfume/cologne, etc.), it seems intuitive that we wouldn't need to clean ourselves as harshly or as often as we currently do.
Interesting topic, nonetheless.