Ask HN: What if your parent said they wanted to become a programmer?
10 comments
Considering that you are a freelancer, you should know there are plenty of people out there who will hire you and never know or care how old you are (or even ask.)
I never discourage people on any of their business ideas. If I had all the answers I would be in some other business than freelance web development making a lot more money.
I only ask that people who ask me about getting started learn on their own because that's how I got started and being able to build that information on your own is a necessary part of learning. Also, if you don't have the passion to be able to pick this stuff up on your own then you won't have the passion to continue learning.
I never discourage people on any of their business ideas. If I had all the answers I would be in some other business than freelance web development making a lot more money.
I only ask that people who ask me about getting started learn on their own because that's how I got started and being able to build that information on your own is a necessary part of learning. Also, if you don't have the passion to be able to pick this stuff up on your own then you won't have the passion to continue learning.
Dude. Your dad stands the chance to make a killing. All those guys -- small businessmen -- he knows in the industry? With a little bit of web programming and SEO skills, the gumption to knock on some doors, and the fearlessness to set rates, he'll rock.
I think the switch is fine, especially if he is technically-minded.
The more interesting question is: why isn't he doing that well? I know folks blame the economy, but are there _no_ construction jobs at all? I have family who are contractors and are still working. So the question isn't technical in nature, it's much more about business chops.
I think the switch is fine, especially if he is technically-minded.
The more interesting question is: why isn't he doing that well? I know folks blame the economy, but are there _no_ construction jobs at all? I have family who are contractors and are still working. So the question isn't technical in nature, it's much more about business chops.
Programming isn't only for the young. If I were 50-ish, I'd consider chasing people who will actually be comforted by dealing with someone their age, rather than a younger dude. I suspect they are out there.
However, you're jumping the gun a bit. Step one, do at least a basic sanity check on the skillset. Nobody, 50, 24, or 13, can jump straight into consulting without putting the time in to build at least some basic skills. Consider starting with some basic tutorials in the languages you know and make sure the temperament and skill sets truly are there before going too nutty about steps seven or eight.
(I was going to start recommending 'beginner' languages, but you're probably better off in this situation starting with whatever it is you and your brother know, on the assumption you want to help your dad get off the ground as quickly as possible and not just abstractly teach him something.)
Your dad might also surprise you; he has leverage into a world you don't and almost nobody here does, and exploiting that could prove surprisingly lucrative, and is probably also full of the aforementioned people who will find him comforting rather than "old". (Very few other programmers will be able to get past the "shooting the breeze" portion of the introduction social dance with quite the same style your dad will be able to in that field.) In three years he may be blowing your socks off in revenue and you may be working for him.... do be sure he tries this, by the way. The way to success in business isn't usually to shore up your weaknesses so much as to ram home your advantages. (You have to do both, of course, but its the advantages where you win.)
However, you're jumping the gun a bit. Step one, do at least a basic sanity check on the skillset. Nobody, 50, 24, or 13, can jump straight into consulting without putting the time in to build at least some basic skills. Consider starting with some basic tutorials in the languages you know and make sure the temperament and skill sets truly are there before going too nutty about steps seven or eight.
(I was going to start recommending 'beginner' languages, but you're probably better off in this situation starting with whatever it is you and your brother know, on the assumption you want to help your dad get off the ground as quickly as possible and not just abstractly teach him something.)
Your dad might also surprise you; he has leverage into a world you don't and almost nobody here does, and exploiting that could prove surprisingly lucrative, and is probably also full of the aforementioned people who will find him comforting rather than "old". (Very few other programmers will be able to get past the "shooting the breeze" portion of the introduction social dance with quite the same style your dad will be able to in that field.) In three years he may be blowing your socks off in revenue and you may be working for him.... do be sure he tries this, by the way. The way to success in business isn't usually to shore up your weaknesses so much as to ram home your advantages. (You have to do both, of course, but its the advantages where you win.)
You say that his current job has been financially rough on the family. Being a freelance webdeveloper is going to be financially challanging for the family too. Especially in the beginning when he hasn't build up a group of clients it can be really bad. For the young developers that is easier to cope with since they usually don't have mortgages/kids going to college etc.
So, will he keep his job as a contractor to sustain a stable income (in case this is stable considering the current financial climate)? Does he have a financial buffer to cope with times when he doesn't have freelance work? Will you send him work to do? If so this does make you kind of responsible for a part of the family income too.
What I would tell my dad: start doing it on the side, only when you have build up a big enough group of clients go for it full-time. I don't think the age is a problem some clients even like it when you are a bit older.
So, will he keep his job as a contractor to sustain a stable income (in case this is stable considering the current financial climate)? Does he have a financial buffer to cope with times when he doesn't have freelance work? Will you send him work to do? If so this does make you kind of responsible for a part of the family income too.
What I would tell my dad: start doing it on the side, only when you have build up a big enough group of clients go for it full-time. I don't think the age is a problem some clients even like it when you are a bit older.
Construction as an industry has collapsed in this country and therefore trying to find a new career makes a lot of sense.
I too share ryanwaggoner's concern about his father being able to find work, but as a (once successful, before the crash of the field) general contractor he already has a good fraction of the social skills needed to become a contractor / freelancer in this field.
Given that, while the startup process might be tough as you point out, it's at least in one of the only 3 general areas in our field where older folk can get or stay employed and is worth trying.
(The other two areas are embedded and classified work, the latter because it's very expensive for the initial company to pay someone to do non-classified work or just (mostly) sit on their thumbs while waiting for the bureaucracy to finish their work)).
I too share ryanwaggoner's concern about his father being able to find work, but as a (once successful, before the crash of the field) general contractor he already has a good fraction of the social skills needed to become a contractor / freelancer in this field.
Given that, while the startup process might be tough as you point out, it's at least in one of the only 3 general areas in our field where older folk can get or stay employed and is worth trying.
(The other two areas are embedded and classified work, the latter because it's very expensive for the initial company to pay someone to do non-classified work or just (mostly) sit on their thumbs while waiting for the bureaucracy to finish their work)).
It's never too late to start a new career. At 51, my father decided he had had enough of the EE world and went to law school full time (where more than a couple of his classmates were on career #2). He's been loving it ever since, and there's no shortage of work for someone with a diverse background. If your dad is serious, I'd encourage him to give it his all (after taking into account what he can support financially, of course).
I think it's fantastic. And no, it's not just for the young.
Programming as a career sucks, but if you already have the passion for it then you're half-way there.
Working as a contract programmer is excellent minus the client management part which we all had to go through.
I would be delighted if my dad told me the same. I'd question his sanity, but definitely be glad.
Programming as a career sucks, but if you already have the passion for it then you're half-way there.
Working as a contract programmer is excellent minus the client management part which we all had to go through.
I would be delighted if my dad told me the same. I'd question his sanity, but definitely be glad.
> Is starting programming only for the young?
no, but don't dance around the issue. tell him what you told us. if he wants to go down the road, he can do so, even in his free time just to see how it works for him.
no, but don't dance around the issue. tell him what you told us. if he wants to go down the road, he can do so, even in his free time just to see how it works for him.
"Is starting programming only for the young?"
It seems like it to me in this society. After you are 40 your mind seems to be in a different mode.
It seems like it to me in this society. After you are 40 your mind seems to be in a different mode.
About a year ago, in preparation for my little brother starting at an expensive private college (which my family can't afford), I started teaching him to program. Fast-forward a year later and he's at the point where I throw him my junior stuff and he can pretty easily make $30 - 40 / hr. He's good with Wordpress, CakePHP, Facebook apps, etc. I'm actually really pleased at how well it's turned out.
Now my dad is interested in going down the same road. He's in his late 40s and has been a general contractor (construction) his whole life, and the last few years have been rough on my family financially. However, he's actually fairly technical and I suspect would easily grok the principles of programming, especially most LAMP dev, which isn't terribly challenging. He called me looking for advice, and I'm not entirely sure what to tell him. I don't think he'll be looking to join a startup at 50 (but who knows), and I'm not even sure if he'd be looking for a job. I think contract / freelance is more attractive to him at this point, because he's interested in some flexibility and making better money. I know he can learn what he needs to, and he has plenty of client management experience, but will he be able to find work? Will people hire a good developer who is older like that? I just wasn't prepared for seeing my Dad go down the road of building crappy Wordpress blogs for $1500 like I had to do, and I'm wondering what advice people have for how he might make this kind of switch, or whether it's worth doing at all.
Is starting programming only for the young?