BuckToBid

16 lat temudiscuss

I just had an submission hit the front page the other day where I explained how moving from PHP/Apache to C saved my bacon. I'm 26 and have not been out of school that long.

I would look for schools who start their students in C or even C++ right off the bat. I know some people who took intro to programming in Java and would never learn C now, not sure why.

BuckToBid

16 lat temudiscuss

So now you have just jumped straight into calling me a crook. I'm sorry that Wavee or whatever site you went to took your money.

I honestly didn't know (and still don't) if you can make any money doing an honest penny auction site. We are just breaking even with this one so far.

The fact is that every time an auction goes up we have more risk than anyone else involved. If I put up a $500 iPad it could go for extremely cheap. The lowest one has ever gone for is 64 cents. That means we made less than $64 and still had to buy and ship that $500 iPad. And we have never sold anything for more than $26 which still isn't the $2600 you think it is because some packages give you more bids per dollar.

The legitimate complaint is when sites cheat. Which I would guess alot of them do. Using Facebook is not some trick to get people to trust us. Its a way for people to verify for themselves that they are in fact bidding against other real people.

How can you say that its a scam? Do you think we are just out there creating all these fake accounts with fake profile and personal photos and relationships etc. I can see maybe if we had 5 or 6 or even 20 users. But we have 100's of winners. That's a stretch even for the most paranoid and cynical of people.

Not everybody wins every time. But the data we have so far says that the majority of users that buy more than just a few bids are actually the ones getting all the deals. Its the people who come in and spend $24 expecting to win a $1500 item then leave when they don't. Those are the people who are losing. The users who are logical enough to see how the system works are the ones who get far more than they put in.

And some countries outlaw all kinds of crazy things, some countries are considering passing legislation to ban homosexuality so I guess we should all agree that its bad now too according to your theory?

BuckToBid

16 lat temudiscuss

This is interesting. Would this work if I was on the site for say an hour? Or is there some limit to the amount of time you can send data like this? I have never tried anything like this. What is the overhead like?

BuckToBid

16 lat temudiscuss

Yes there are many penny auction sites out there. The whole reason to link it to facebook is so that you know its a real person you are bidding against. How do you know wavee has all real people bidding? You don't some of their users could just as easily be bots bidding items up automatically.

BuckToBid

16 lat temudiscuss

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_bomb

Fork Bombs are easier to pull off from the command line. Not so much with DOS. I would say that loading a large webserver for each request would use up more resources than a tiny C program. Thats the whole point of the post.

BuckToBid

16 lat temudiscuss

I had never heard of those before. Are they capable of working inside any web broswer? Looking it up right now.

BuckToBid

16 lat temudiscuss

Thanks for the suggestion!

BuckToBid

16 lat temudiscuss

Yes, right now its all on one server. The parts of the app that serve the pages you see are separate from the 1 second updater and could be on separate servers.

Right now the C app listens on a different port that lighttpd will redirect to if a pertinent request comes in.

There is a parent process that will fork upon connection and pass the socket to child which pulls the requested data and quickly returns it.

The one thing you will also need if you go this route is a SIGALRM handler. You just basically call signal() and set a flag before each socket read and write. So if the socket takes too long to return the signal gets called and kills the child process. Then you clear the flag on the other side of the socket read/write call so that the signal doesn't kill the process if the call returns on time.

BuckToBid

16 lat temudiscuss

Mostly just because I've never used FastCGI before, and I have played around with making C/C++ servers for fun before. Seemed like the fastest solution and so far its worked out better than expected.

BuckToBid

16 lat temudiscuss

Was it an auction site as well? If so which one if you don't mind me asking?

BuckToBid

16 lat temudiscuss

Yes, it would handle it and we could have kept scaling the server up to handle more and more of it. With the C app all those problems went away. It has almost no footprint and uses almost no processor power.

BuckToBid

16 lat temudiscuss

The reason it has to continually sync is that any user could place a bid at any moment. This makes the timer increase and top bidder change, so every user must be notified of the change. Its asking the server for how much time is left in each auction not what time it is in the real world. Sorry for the confusion.

BuckToBid

16 lat temudiscuss

yes, I was just saying that we can't wait for replication, when someone places a bid all the others users must have that information immediately.

BuckToBid

16 lat temudiscuss

The timers are all set differently, we can have 9 seperate auctions going at once and all have different times they end at. Also when someone bids the timers increase. So they are not only all different but all changing constantly. Its not just a single countdown that we could sync.

BuckToBid

16 lat temudiscuss

I completely bypassed apache all together. Apache is not used for the 1 second ajax call at all. The only libs i used were jansson for easy json manipulation and mysql++ for database access

BuckToBid

16 lat temudiscuss

Thanks! I understand your point, but a fork server is so simple I don't think there is much that can go wrong there, if it was serving more data I would be worried, but its meant to do a quick and short reply.

BuckToBid

16 lat temudiscuss

Yeah I have run into some of those problems already. Thanks for pointing that out. You definately need a SIGALRM handler if you are thinking of doing something like this. But I don't really see how switching to Memcached is going to prevent a DOS attack. Not trying to be defensive, just really wondering if there is something I'm not getting about that.

BuckToBid

16 lat temudiscuss

Also because of the need for consistency and latency I'm not sure memcached would be a benefit because it could never be scaled anything but vertically anyways.

BuckToBid

16 lat temudiscuss

On the frontend I was already using lighttpd, but I could have used memcached on the backend that was going to be the next step if the c app didn't work. It just worked so well I didn't have to worry about it.

BuckToBid

16 lat temudiscuss

You could google how to do a simple fork server in c/c++ and after you have that working you just need to do something like this:

stringstream response; response << "HTTP/1.1 200 OK\r\n" << "Server: BTB Auction Updater 1.0\r\n" << "X-Powered-By:BTB Update Engine\r\n" << "Content-Length: " << msg.length() << "\r\n" << "Content-Type: text/html\r\n\r\n" << msg;

  int n = write(s, response.str().c_str(), response.str().length());
  if(n < 0) error("Error writing to socket");

to write back a valid header that a browser will understand

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Moving from PHP to C saved my web startup.

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