An entrepreneur persuaded New Orleans to let him create a high-tech police force(nytimes.com)
nytimes.com
An entrepreneur persuaded New Orleans to let him create a high-tech police force
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/magazine/who-runs-the-streets-of-new-orleans.html?action=click&contentCollection=magazine®ion=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=sectionfront&_r=0
12 comments
This is very close to the model of private active security in wealthier suburbs of Johannesburg [1], [2], [3]. Crime in suburbs got so bad that residents are prepared to pay for active patrolling. There are 24 hour patrols by armed guards, many of whom are ex-military. It is quite fucked up to think that we are paying armed men to drive around my suburb all day and night to stop other armed men from coming into my house. These companies also do investigations and are permitted to (citizens') arrest people under certain circumstances. They ostensibly supplement the police, but effectively supplant them. It must be mentioned that these services work tremendously well and crime has been driven to near zero in many areas.
[1] http://www.capgroup.org.za/ [2] http://www.csstactical.co.za/ [3] http://www.24-7security.co.za/
[1] http://www.capgroup.org.za/ [2] http://www.csstactical.co.za/ [3] http://www.24-7security.co.za/
This is not vigilante justice. These are off duty police officers working as an officially sanctioned part of the local government, which is obviously failing to get the job done.
A vigilante would shoot the malefactors on the spot, but these officers are arresting the individuals in cooperation with the nopd and their cases are adjudicated like any others.
I don't see any problem with someone who has skin in the game and who is passionate getting involved in local governance and trying to find a better way forward.
The fact that he is rich and politically connected makes him that much more able to tackle the problem. I suppose the optics would be better if he just packed up and left town and left New Orleans to stew in its own juice. Then he couldn't be accused of a rich guy bossing little guys around. However, this guy has a wealth, talent, and influence, and he's choosing to apply them responsibly. He should be applauded.
A vigilante would shoot the malefactors on the spot, but these officers are arresting the individuals in cooperation with the nopd and their cases are adjudicated like any others.
I don't see any problem with someone who has skin in the game and who is passionate getting involved in local governance and trying to find a better way forward.
The fact that he is rich and politically connected makes him that much more able to tackle the problem. I suppose the optics would be better if he just packed up and left town and left New Orleans to stew in its own juice. Then he couldn't be accused of a rich guy bossing little guys around. However, this guy has a wealth, talent, and influence, and he's choosing to apply them responsibly. He should be applauded.
I don't see any problem with someone who has skin in the
game and who is passionate getting involved [...] The
fact that he is rich and politically connected makes him
that much more able to tackle the problem.
An example:
* Me and the mayor live on the same street, in the rich area of town, where there are ten potholes that really annoy us both. I'm always bugging him about it.
* There are a thousand potholes over the rest of the city. The mayor can't afford to fix them this year, but he'd like to soon. Maybe with a tax increase, or a cut to the parks budget?
* I form a local pothole-fixing task force. With the mayor's consent, my neighbours and I raise $2000 and hire someone to fix the ten potholes that annoy us.
* The mayor is no longer annoyed by potholes, and I no longer bug him about it. He realises nobody really wants a tax increase, or a cut to the parks budget.
* The remaining 990 potholes don't get fixed. Sucks not to live in the rich part of town!
If Torres was sending his forces across the entire city equally, it would be a different matter! But fixing 10 potholes is much easier to afford than fixing 1000.
At least, potholes can't move, but with petty criminals, if some streets are patrolled more often, they will just move elsewhere.
All good points you raise.
I think what really bothers me about this private police force is the fact that they act so specifically to the will of one man, rather than as a public unit that is funded by the people and administered effectively to serve the people.
I would applaud his actions if he was a publicly elected official. Giuliani and the NYPD did a great job in NY. It just rubs me the wrong way that this man gets to subvert the system and hire a squad of armed off-duty police officers to respond to his beck and call.
Disruption is one thing when you're a tech startup in silicon valley. It's a whole different beast when it involves cops for hire in armored golf carts, driving around with guns.
I think what really bothers me about this private police force is the fact that they act so specifically to the will of one man, rather than as a public unit that is funded by the people and administered effectively to serve the people.
I would applaud his actions if he was a publicly elected official. Giuliani and the NYPD did a great job in NY. It just rubs me the wrong way that this man gets to subvert the system and hire a squad of armed off-duty police officers to respond to his beck and call.
Disruption is one thing when you're a tech startup in silicon valley. It's a whole different beast when it involves cops for hire in armored golf carts, driving around with guns.
On the surface this arrangement doesn't strike me as being that different from university police departments, which have been in existence successfully for quite some time.
Constituents and sources of funding differ from a university to a city.
Most universities and gated communities are, in effect, private cities within larger municipalities. A "Private" city generally has a private police force paid for by the inhabitants, and a public city should have a public police force paid for by the public.
This guy is taking private policing to his surrounding public neighborhood.
Most universities and gated communities are, in effect, private cities within larger municipalities. A "Private" city generally has a private police force paid for by the inhabitants, and a public city should have a public police force paid for by the public.
This guy is taking private policing to his surrounding public neighborhood.
He's paying police officers to put in extra hours on his behalf, outside the hours the government is able to pay for, to selectively enforce laws that further his personal interests. That should set off some alarm bells.
>These are off duty police officers working as an officially sanctioned part of the local government [...]
Are armed off-duty police officers working a second job allowed to use their own municipally-provided sidearms, or must they purchase and use their own? I assume the latter, unless all police officers might be asked to purchase and register their own sidearms for use on- and off-duty.
Are armed off-duty police officers working a second job allowed to use their own municipally-provided sidearms, or must they purchase and use their own? I assume the latter, unless all police officers might be asked to purchase and register their own sidearms for use on- and off-duty.
I live in New Orleans and need to point out that this task force is not a solution looking for a problem. Crime is very real in the French Quarter and there is an overwhelming, obvious, and consistent presence of people who only want to take something from you.
The French Quarter may be fun and exciting when you're with a group of people but finding yourself on one of the many side-streets and without a crowd of people can be scary.
I remember in 2005 I got my first iPod. The first thing I did was replace the white headphones with black headphones so nobody would know I actually had something worth stealing. I vacationed in New York for the first time that year and was absolutely amazed by how safe and comforting the place was.
There's this long running extortion con people like to play on tourist. It goes like this...
"I bet you a dollar I know where you got your shoes"
"Yeah?"
"You got your shoes on your feet walking down St. Peter street."
"Now....Give me that dollar."
At 4:00 in the afternoon you just give the dollar or just walk away. Maybe at 9:00 PM street is empty and there's only you and your friend. He's insistent. He's not going to have change. You're reaching into your purse.
This same con has been going on since the 1980's and nobody seems to do anything about it. I don't want people coming to my city and having the experience I just described.
And please note I'm making no commentary on the task force. I'm just making notes on the current situation.
The French Quarter may be fun and exciting when you're with a group of people but finding yourself on one of the many side-streets and without a crowd of people can be scary.
I remember in 2005 I got my first iPod. The first thing I did was replace the white headphones with black headphones so nobody would know I actually had something worth stealing. I vacationed in New York for the first time that year and was absolutely amazed by how safe and comforting the place was.
There's this long running extortion con people like to play on tourist. It goes like this...
"I bet you a dollar I know where you got your shoes"
"Yeah?"
"You got your shoes on your feet walking down St. Peter street."
"Now....Give me that dollar."
At 4:00 in the afternoon you just give the dollar or just walk away. Maybe at 9:00 PM street is empty and there's only you and your friend. He's insistent. He's not going to have change. You're reaching into your purse.
This same con has been going on since the 1980's and nobody seems to do anything about it. I don't want people coming to my city and having the experience I just described.
And please note I'm making no commentary on the task force. I'm just making notes on the current situation.
Off topic, but that happened to me once, as a tourist from Europe visiting San Francisco. Only difference was that the guy who played this routine on me, wanted $15 per shoe. I was a naive 23 y.o. kid, but really entertained because he played me well, so I said "No way man, I'll give you $5 for both!"
Meanwhile his buddy was pressuring him to get going, so the guy was really annoyed with me, but took the $5 and ran off to the guy shouting to him to get into the car. Only later, back in Europe, did I realise how close I could have been to a totally different outcome, so to me life stopped being a given when I realised that. gulp
Meanwhile his buddy was pressuring him to get going, so the guy was really annoyed with me, but took the $5 and ran off to the guy shouting to him to get into the car. Only later, back in Europe, did I realise how close I could have been to a totally different outcome, so to me life stopped being a given when I realised that. gulp
> "'Crazy, right?' Torres later said. 'I kind of felt like Bruce Wayne.'"
The Batman comic where he rounds up the homeless and imprisons them sounds unbelievably depressing. It can't be as bad as the story where Batman exterminates the street children of Rio de Janeiro, though, so there's that.
http://articles.latimes.com/1990-07-08/news/mn-324_1_death-s...
The Batman comic where he rounds up the homeless and imprisons them sounds unbelievably depressing. It can't be as bad as the story where Batman exterminates the street children of Rio de Janeiro, though, so there's that.
http://articles.latimes.com/1990-07-08/news/mn-324_1_death-s...
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This feels like the reverse of the NYT joke:
"Crime cleaned up; wealthy, privileged to benefit the most"
"Crime cleaned up; wealthy, privileged to benefit the most"
Isn't this almost literally the plot of Robocop?
I worked in the Quarter for the better part of two years. The criminals are criminals; the transients are part of the character of the area. Where else in the world do you have a mix of movie stars and millionaires living alongside musicians and artists working hard to survive?
As hard as he tries, the Quarter is still in New Orleans. White washing it may make it more appealing to moneyed types and tourists, but it comes at the cost of turning the Quarter into a shell of what it once was.
As hard as he tries, the Quarter is still in New Orleans. White washing it may make it more appealing to moneyed types and tourists, but it comes at the cost of turning the Quarter into a shell of what it once was.
I still live here, and I'm sick of the "Crime is part of the character" narrative. The Quarter, Marigny, Bywater, and Treme can have plenty of character without the risk of getting mugged biking home from work.
Still here as well and I really have some awful sounding opinions on this subject.
It's hard to ignore that in the deep south white people are afforded enormous privilege in many ways. And these gutter punks (transients) are overwhelmingly white, young, able bodied.
I wish they all go home to their white privileged families.
It's hard to ignore that in the deep south white people are afforded enormous privilege in many ways. And these gutter punks (transients) are overwhelmingly white, young, able bodied.
I wish they all go home to their white privileged families.
There are obvious ethical problems with a private security service supplanting the police.
However this is an interesting example of how it might be advantageous to have multiple service providers competing in a market that try to be more efficient and provide more for less money.
Maybe there should always be multiple police forces that compete in the same market. It might help get rid of violent cops who driving down the services reviews :-)
However this is an interesting example of how it might be advantageous to have multiple service providers competing in a market that try to be more efficient and provide more for less money.
Maybe there should always be multiple police forces that compete in the same market. It might help get rid of violent cops who driving down the services reviews :-)
The raise of "private cops" should not surprise anyone. In US where income inequality has risen to greater proportions and the city budgets stagnated. Gated communities, private security and private cops are the next steps of it. They are not as much accountable to public at large. It is tempting to paint all the private cops in a bad picture, but there is some good coming out of it. Where the City Police has become moribund, these guys are the only hope between getting robbed and not getting robbed.
Rise? The original police forces were created and controlled by company towns.
OmniCorp - "We've Got the Future Under Control"
Anyone else wondering why a city with a crime problem has had their police force reduced by 500 officers in the last 3 years?
This works as a chase away strategy but East NO is a different matter, nowhere to chase the gangs to.
This sounds amazingly close to the start of the CPS in the show Continuum.
Oh my god. If the US will start to privatise police then we soon have that all over the planet.
San Francisco has a private police force that predates the public one. And is less corrupt.
http://reason.com/archives/2015/07/21/san-franciscos-private...
http://reason.com/archives/2015/07/21/san-franciscos-private...
We have done privatising of public services already in many areas, and I can't remember a single one were it was advantageous for the public. In Germany they started with telephone companies and suddenly many cities (even major ones) lacked coverage, even some smaller towns are left completely without modern technologies. Trains now are nearly unusable, always running late, always being broken, etc.
If you privatise the police force you end up with protecting the rich from the poor, which some might argue is even currently what happens too much. It will be more like that, though, not less. Because then a company does the protection and companies want money and are often not required by law to actually provide real, well spread service. And if you have no imagination for worst case scenarios then have a look what big companies with private armees like Nestle do in third world countries without the government being able to fight back because the companies simply have more fighting power.
We slowly shift from a country based society to a company based society. And sadly we have not fought for any rules considering health care, protection of our goods, etc with companies. We only have rights in the face of countries. No countries, no rights. At least that how it looks more and more.
If you privatise the police force you end up with protecting the rich from the poor, which some might argue is even currently what happens too much. It will be more like that, though, not less. Because then a company does the protection and companies want money and are often not required by law to actually provide real, well spread service. And if you have no imagination for worst case scenarios then have a look what big companies with private armees like Nestle do in third world countries without the government being able to fight back because the companies simply have more fighting power.
We slowly shift from a country based society to a company based society. And sadly we have not fought for any rules considering health care, protection of our goods, etc with companies. We only have rights in the face of countries. No countries, no rights. At least that how it looks more and more.
The San Francisco police have 2,000+ officers. The San Francisco Patrol Special Police you refer to have 40. I'd both be interested in the metric you're using to determine "less corrupt" and in how that metric would look if they had 2,000 officers like the SFPD.
The article goes into it from a historical perspective, but one only has to search "SFPD Corruption" to find many examples. And officers who try to be ethical get punished by the others.
http://www.sfweekly.com/sanfrancisco/sfpd-tries-to-fire-cop-...
http://www.sfweekly.com/sanfrancisco/sfpd-tries-to-fire-cop-...
As I noted, the SFPD is 50+ times the size, and I'm interested in an actual metric, not anecdotes. I'm pretty suspicious of the contention that a private police force would be somehow immune to corruption - it certainly hasn't been the case with groups like Blackwater.
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Just like in that movie RoboCop lol.
We are insane.
USA is a failed state
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"Torres also became involved in setting policy. Earlier that week, his force had coordinated with the N.O.P.D. in two huge arrest sweeps of so-called transients, whose familiar panhandling presence in the neighborhood (ragged clothes, mangy dogs, rusted harmonicas) had not been the subject of recent outrage. But Torres believed them to be a nuisance...The targets of the arrests had not been connected to any serious crimes, and some of the city’s residents saw the move as questionable."
"'Crazy, right?' Torres later said. 'I kind of felt like Bruce Wayne.'"
So basically this rich businessman has a small force of armed private police legally roaming his neighborhood because a) he had his home burglarized and was pissed off b) he wanted to get rid of some homeless people to raise property values in the rich quarter, where he and his family/friends own a lot of property c) it makes him feel like Batman.
It's sad that the current state of public policing has not only allowed, but necessitated this type of questionable vigilante justice.