From a Farm in Egypt to Building a YC Computer Vision Startup for Fitness(techcrunch.com)
techcrunch.com
From a Farm in Egypt to Building a YC Computer Vision Startup for Fitness
http://techcrunch.com/2015/03/23/smartspot/
9 comments
Cofounder here. We do track back angle. Squat was our #1 priority, since so many people screw up.
It does track body angles over time! Check out the end of our video for a few different exercises: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_qaqoGXHDU
It does track body angles over time! Check out the end of our video for a few different exercises: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_qaqoGXHDU
Out of curiosity, does it track and differentiate betwen both high-bar and low-bar squats? This is a pretty cool service.
Great question! It does and it doesn't - we can guide you with either type, but that's something that you (or your personal trainer) might better be able to dial in offline.
On our site, you'll be able to see your full 3D skeleton recording and do more investigation into your form - slow mo, frame by frame, and all that detail-oriented stuff.
On our site, you'll be able to see your full 3D skeleton recording and do more investigation into your form - slow mo, frame by frame, and all that detail-oriented stuff.
This looks like a cool technology that will most likely be stuck in no man's land in its current incarnation.
Selling this at scale to gyms will be very difficult. Personal training is one the largest profit centers for gyms and at many gyms, personal training is the most profitable profit center. Convincing members to sign up can be difficult though (at an average gym typically less than 10% of gym members use personal training services at any given time) so gym owners are going to be skeptical about anything that might deter members from trying personal training.
If this technology is as good as the founders say it is, it will be viewed by most gyms as a problem, not a solution. A gym isn't going to pay $2,500/unit for the privilege of potentially cannibalizing its personal training revenue. On the flip side, if the technology isn't as good as the founders say it is, a gym isn't going to pay $2,500/unit to add a piece of equipment that doesn't offer any benefit.
Another poster mentioned selling to individuals for home gyms. Notwithstanding the fact that this is a non-starter at anywhere near the $2,500 price point, the market for personal fitness equipment is unfathomably competitive. Customer acquisition costs are insane and you could easily spend millions of dollars just to launch a new product.
If there's any value here, it's in the computer vision technology. The question is whether the company and whoever invests will recognize that before it's too late.
Selling this at scale to gyms will be very difficult. Personal training is one the largest profit centers for gyms and at many gyms, personal training is the most profitable profit center. Convincing members to sign up can be difficult though (at an average gym typically less than 10% of gym members use personal training services at any given time) so gym owners are going to be skeptical about anything that might deter members from trying personal training.
If this technology is as good as the founders say it is, it will be viewed by most gyms as a problem, not a solution. A gym isn't going to pay $2,500/unit for the privilege of potentially cannibalizing its personal training revenue. On the flip side, if the technology isn't as good as the founders say it is, a gym isn't going to pay $2,500/unit to add a piece of equipment that doesn't offer any benefit.
Another poster mentioned selling to individuals for home gyms. Notwithstanding the fact that this is a non-starter at anywhere near the $2,500 price point, the market for personal fitness equipment is unfathomably competitive. Customer acquisition costs are insane and you could easily spend millions of dollars just to launch a new product.
If there's any value here, it's in the computer vision technology. The question is whether the company and whoever invests will recognize that before it's too late.
Personal training, like hair cuts, is a non-tradable service.
But, this is part of the value of personal training. You're not going to miss your work out if you lose a hundred bucks by not going.
Also, there's value in motivation as well. Having someone there to push you to get those extra one or two reps is another big part of the value add of a personal trainer.
This is really cool, and I'm looking forward to seeing how the product evolves going forward. Props to Mr. Eldeeb for his amazing journey and the beginnings of an interesting startup. Sounds like the pressures of running a company might be a cakewalk compared to the rest of his life!
But, this is part of the value of personal training. You're not going to miss your work out if you lose a hundred bucks by not going.
Also, there's value in motivation as well. Having someone there to push you to get those extra one or two reps is another big part of the value add of a personal trainer.
This is really cool, and I'm looking forward to seeing how the product evolves going forward. Props to Mr. Eldeeb for his amazing journey and the beginnings of an interesting startup. Sounds like the pressures of running a company might be a cakewalk compared to the rest of his life!
Cofounder Josh Augustin here. Motivation is a huge part of what a personal trainer does, and that's why we're going to help trainers reach out to their clients with email and SMS.
For people who have never been able to afford a personal trainer, like Moawia and I, this is an awesome alternative, and we believe it can be just as motivating.
For people who have never been able to afford a personal trainer, like Moawia and I, this is an awesome alternative, and we believe it can be just as motivating.
Kudus for putting a product on the market!
Is this using custom skeleton tracking from the Kinect v2 depth map or are you using the MS SDK? Any validation of the accuracy and reliability?
Is this using custom skeleton tracking from the Kinect v2 depth map or are you using the MS SDK? Any validation of the accuracy and reliability?
How are you able to assess that, given that you've never used a personal trainer? Do you have access to retention statistics, for example?
Josh, given that the Smartspot is using a Kinect, are there plans for this to become an Xbox app? The motivational "hump" for working out in your living room is much lower than going to the gym (and cheaper too).
We feel that our tech is most useful when it's helping people do high-weight exercises better, without injuring -themselves, so we're targeting gyms first, but home gyms are definitely a possibility for the future.
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This product looks awesome but since gyms get a lot of their revenues from personal trainers I can imagine it might be a semi-difficult sale. How about putting it in home gyms though? If a home user already has a Kinect and a tv you can probably sell them your software as a really cool high tech logging/safety check pretty easily.
Uh, actually as I think about it the home use is super exciting. If you can build some cool visualization software you can sell it to home gym users as a data-driven workout experience. Good luck you two!
Uh, actually as I think about it the home use is super exciting. If you can build some cool visualization software you can sell it to home gym users as a data-driven workout experience. Good luck you two!
Actually, we're working with gyms and letting them and their personal trainers make more money by revenue sharing. There are a lot of talented trainers out there who are underused during off-peak hours, and we're providing a way they can continue to train people in that time.
We're targeting gyms because, frankly, that's where most Americans work out, but we've already had a lot of interest from home gyms, so we're definitely going to work on that as well!
We're targeting gyms because, frankly, that's where most Americans work out, but we've already had a lot of interest from home gyms, so we're definitely going to work on that as well!
What about athletes and clubs? Lots of sports; running, olympic lifting, archery, fencing etc have used video analysis for a long time. Serious, but not professional athletes who don't have constant access to a coach would probably find this useful as a feedback tool after a session with their coach.
Random idea that might have been mentioned elsewhere, but would a possible monetisation/motivation strategy for a consumer model be people pay only when they miss a session? Would make for a fun PR campaign at least.
This is basically disrupting personal trainers. You wouldn't expect a distruptive technology to be a substitute for the real deal right away - it is just going to be a better alternative for those who couldn't afford a personal trainer, or who wouldn't admit how bad a shape they are in.
Using this technology you could have the computer motivate you for well you are doing, compete with other "players" or just yourself, etc.
As for the monetary aspect, there is always Beeminder. It has the advantages that you don't have to pay 100 usd if you actually show up.
Using this technology you could have the computer motivate you for well you are doing, compete with other "players" or just yourself, etc.
As for the monetary aspect, there is always Beeminder. It has the advantages that you don't have to pay 100 usd if you actually show up.
Love the backstory. Fitness startups are pretty interesting, and I like that Smartspot is using computer vision (because I haven't seen anyone else doing it). I would love to see a performance comparison to Athos[1], which uses embedded sensors in workout gear to detect muscle balance and engagement.
[1] http://liveathos.com
[1] http://liveathos.com
This is awesome. About a year ago I bought a Kinect with the intent of doing something very similar. This story makes me want to get coding again.
I was excited by Amazon phone's stereo camera as well as Google's project tango. Depth sensing technology is very exciting indeed!
I was excited by Amazon phone's stereo camera as well as Google's project tango. Depth sensing technology is very exciting indeed!
Great Story!! I love the founder’s journey! Nothing was handed to you. You worked hard for everything you have! I can identify with that. This company would have kicked butt at SXSW because we did not see many fitness companies there this year.
If you search "Smart Spot" in Google I get this article at #3 and not the actual website at all. "Smartspot" returns the actual website as the last item on the list. You should up your SEO game!
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As a personal rant, you can ignore the rest if you can tell this is off-topic from here. I spent a lot of time in Egypt, I have a former Egyptian spouse, and I know many Egyptians. This country has so much potential, and it is all going to waste because variations of this story, kids struggling to even find time to invest in the sub-standard education they are provided, is common.
Now, like a few other expats who studied there with me in 2006-2007, I was really upset post-revolution. As expected, people wanted to bootstrap a nation far behind. There were, like in other public sector jobs, numerous protests by education sector staff and instructors about how it was bad, and not improving. Keep in mind in the average university students are paying a few hundred gineh (Egyptian pounds) per year. As a result, even higher education is swampy messy of inadequate staff and resources like our worst inner city middle schools. And this is the top of education chain in Egypt. Of course, as expected even in the most developed nations (I was scarred and disturbed by local politics, jaded from my time over there as I saw more parallels over time), this was put on the back burner when it is crucial to improving the general state of affairs. Not that many will address that, because it is not politically expedient.
No one really focuses on the education problem in Egypt. I know some people running companies there, if you can even believe it pre and post-revolution when internet cuts were common, web development firms. Egypt invested in, for its time, top-rate broadband availability in the region. It is one of the first Arab countries to have Internet backbone as part of the higher education networks in the 90s prior to the Zaki information economy push around the millenium. When I studied at the time, with everything else faulting, the Internet infrastructure, even for average consumer use, was surprisingly not bad. They even had cool joint degrees. If I had money to spare, I would have considered one.
http://www.africabuild.eu/consortium/iti-mcit
So there is great infrastructure and potential for the Eldeebs I know and knew, pre-revolution at least. The sad reality is that stories like this are so common in Egypt, it is crazy. No kid, even the most motivated, cannot be expected to fight for enterpreneurship when he cannot eat and must work side jobs so his whole family can survive. Education, even when kids can get access, is terrible, in spite of great telecom infrastructure that was part of a perceived information economy bump in the future.
I generally think Ahmed Zuweil, a famous Egyptian technocrat and Nobel Chemistry Prize winner, is somewhat an asshole. But he used to run ads during Ramadan on Egyptian television the last few years underlining education is THE priority to make Egypt return even to a fraction of its true greatness.
If anyone thinks Eldeeb's story is moving, please look into orgs like this and many other Egyptian NGOs invested in education. Lord knows I do.
http://www.zewailcity.edu.eg
Now, like a few other expats who studied there with me in 2006-2007, I was really upset post-revolution. As expected, people wanted to bootstrap a nation far behind. There were, like in other public sector jobs, numerous protests by education sector staff and instructors about how it was bad, and not improving. Keep in mind in the average university students are paying a few hundred gineh (Egyptian pounds) per year. As a result, even higher education is swampy messy of inadequate staff and resources like our worst inner city middle schools. And this is the top of education chain in Egypt. Of course, as expected even in the most developed nations (I was scarred and disturbed by local politics, jaded from my time over there as I saw more parallels over time), this was put on the back burner when it is crucial to improving the general state of affairs. Not that many will address that, because it is not politically expedient.
No one really focuses on the education problem in Egypt. I know some people running companies there, if you can even believe it pre and post-revolution when internet cuts were common, web development firms. Egypt invested in, for its time, top-rate broadband availability in the region. It is one of the first Arab countries to have Internet backbone as part of the higher education networks in the 90s prior to the Zaki information economy push around the millenium. When I studied at the time, with everything else faulting, the Internet infrastructure, even for average consumer use, was surprisingly not bad. They even had cool joint degrees. If I had money to spare, I would have considered one.
http://www.africabuild.eu/consortium/iti-mcit
So there is great infrastructure and potential for the Eldeebs I know and knew, pre-revolution at least. The sad reality is that stories like this are so common in Egypt, it is crazy. No kid, even the most motivated, cannot be expected to fight for enterpreneurship when he cannot eat and must work side jobs so his whole family can survive. Education, even when kids can get access, is terrible, in spite of great telecom infrastructure that was part of a perceived information economy bump in the future.
I generally think Ahmed Zuweil, a famous Egyptian technocrat and Nobel Chemistry Prize winner, is somewhat an asshole. But he used to run ads during Ramadan on Egyptian television the last few years underlining education is THE priority to make Egypt return even to a fraction of its true greatness.
If anyone thinks Eldeeb's story is moving, please look into orgs like this and many other Egyptian NGOs invested in education. Lord knows I do.
http://www.zewailcity.edu.eg
AIUI, Egypt is yet another African country that fell victim to land reform. The unique wrinkle to the story is that instead of taking the land from experienced farmers and giving it to the less capable masses, Mubarak took it from experienced farmers and gave it to corporate cronies. Less socialist, still disastrous! Egypt could feed itself 8,000 years ago, it could feed itself 800 years ago, and it could feed itself 80 years ago. Now, not so much...
This looks like a fascinating product; if the founder's around, does it track back angles? Is it useful for dls/squats/cleans? Can it track bar paths? Can it track body angles over time, or does it (as of now) just track final angles?