Entrepreneurs anonymous(economist.com)
economist.com
Entrepreneurs anonymous
http://www.economist.com/news/business/21618816-instead-romanticising-entrepreneurs-people-should-understand-how-hard-their-lives-can?fsrc=scn/tw_ec/entrepreneurs_anonymous
110 comments
If you're awake at 4 AM because of anxiety about growth rate and lack of capital, make some hot cocoa and then thank God you don't have real problems.
I'm not saying this to be snide. Those problems feel real and scary enough. But as the other replies to this comment demonstrate, there is a vast spectrum of human misery that we live on the far end of.
Anything you can do to remain mindful of that will have the side effect of letting you sleep like a baby, even the night before the big investor meeting.
I'm not saying this to be snide. Those problems feel real and scary enough. But as the other replies to this comment demonstrate, there is a vast spectrum of human misery that we live on the far end of.
Anything you can do to remain mindful of that will have the side effect of letting you sleep like a baby, even the night before the big investor meeting.
I don't disagree, but when you're growing and responsible for the economic livelihoods of several households, it's hard to write your anxieties off as first world. Because it's not really about you anymore, and a "whatever, I'll be fine in the end" attitude just feels, selfish? Irresponsible? I think a great many of us would sleep just fine if we only bore responsibility for ourselves. I'm not arguing that anyone should be destroying themselves over their startup, just that writing all the anxieties off as first world problems just isn't a reasonable ask for founders who care deeply about their teams.
The kinds of people that start tech companies in this economy are among the most employable people in the entire world. If your company fails, you'll do the same thing a laid-off steelworker will do: get another job. But of course you'll succeed at doing that almost immediately.
When I talk to other founders about the gut of steel, it's not about the money but the people.
'Real' founders are fine -- we have a lower expected salary anyways but are probably extra employable. (Imagine who knows the most about contributing to a business!)
The issue is that we were the ones who convinced the people we sat down with to put their eggs in our basket. Investors put in their hard-earned money, employees devote their precious personal hours and "one shot", and customers (in B2Bs) put their own businesses on the line. A company is a social bedrock and we're ultimately responsible.
This stuff can certainly be rationalized away. Professional investors spread their risk and angels are often in it for the fun, employees get a bundle of a paycheck, lottery ticket, and personal responsibility, customers make business decisions, and everyone is getting a seat on the rocket. However, founders are human and part of that means having empathy.
'Real' founders are fine -- we have a lower expected salary anyways but are probably extra employable. (Imagine who knows the most about contributing to a business!)
The issue is that we were the ones who convinced the people we sat down with to put their eggs in our basket. Investors put in their hard-earned money, employees devote their precious personal hours and "one shot", and customers (in B2Bs) put their own businesses on the line. A company is a social bedrock and we're ultimately responsible.
This stuff can certainly be rationalized away. Professional investors spread their risk and angels are often in it for the fun, employees get a bundle of a paycheck, lottery ticket, and personal responsibility, customers make business decisions, and everyone is getting a seat on the rocket. However, founders are human and part of that means having empathy.
You made tea shoot out of my nose when I read "Investors put their hard-earned money...".
I think that's only true if the company has a decent sized win. As the CEO I actually feel pretty much unemployable. You're the ultimate generalist in a world where companies need specialists.
This is entirely true, and it isn't only that you cannot find another job as a CEO, but you might have a really hard time finding any job at all even if it is lower status (non-executive).
I find this really hard to believe. Sorry, you can't pick strawberries for us, you've been a CEO!
I personally believe that founders have a moral obligation to do right by their employees, but ultimately it's important for founders to recognize that employees are responsible for their own economic livelihoods. Startups, particularly early-stage startups, come with a unique set of risks and prospective employees must evaluate those risks in the context of their own situations.
Ironically, a lot of the stress that some founders experience comes from their own lack of transparency with employees. I don't doubt that many founders care deeply about their teams, but many are also so mortified at the thought of not being able to recruit and retain that they try to paint the most favorable picture of the startup's current state, conveniently ignoring facts that aren't so favorable.
Obviously, the information that founders can reasonably share with employees changes over time as a company grows, but at an early-stage startup, there's really no excuse for anything less than full disclosure. As the founder of such a startup, you must accept that you can't guarantee your employees continued employment, but you can promise them that you'll be honest about the company's state.
Ironically, a lot of the stress that some founders experience comes from their own lack of transparency with employees. I don't doubt that many founders care deeply about their teams, but many are also so mortified at the thought of not being able to recruit and retain that they try to paint the most favorable picture of the startup's current state, conveniently ignoring facts that aren't so favorable.
Obviously, the information that founders can reasonably share with employees changes over time as a company grows, but at an early-stage startup, there's really no excuse for anything less than full disclosure. As the founder of such a startup, you must accept that you can't guarantee your employees continued employment, but you can promise them that you'll be honest about the company's state.
That's a weirdly paternalistic view to take. Your team is going to be just fine without you, if it comes to that.
Seriously, I worked at a startup for a year, I didn't like the direction it was going nor my roll there. I got a new job which was a step up from where I was before the startup. Honestly, in todays economy in the United States, I see very little risk for me joining a startup. I work for one of the top 5 largest software companies in the world but I'd certainly go work for another startup. It's not like they aren't giving me full benefits and a 401k. In fact, the perks are sometimes better at new startups!
The mind-churn is not anxiety always, but consciousness of the sheer gravity of what you are doing.
The "vast spectrum of human misery" exists unless or until someone's mind-churn waking them up at night results in viable solutions and real growth.
It's not one or the other, both are linked situations. There is a seriousness about all the "preoccupation" ... it's even natural and organic in the sense that it is how one hand washes the other in the grand scheme of it all.
The "vast spectrum of human misery" exists unless or until someone's mind-churn waking them up at night results in viable solutions and real growth.
It's not one or the other, both are linked situations. There is a seriousness about all the "preoccupation" ... it's even natural and organic in the sense that it is how one hand washes the other in the grand scheme of it all.
"Sheer gravity"? You're doing something that an enormous number of Americans do every year. Small business employment is a gigantic fraction of the economy. The difference between you and the owner of a barbershop is that the barber doesn't work in an industry that tricks him into believing he might be a millionaire in 4 years. The consequences of failure, on the other hand? Pretty much the same.
Honestly, the consequences of the failing Barbershop are probably worse. He will probably lose a good amount of personal capital (unless he somehow got investors?) and his employment prospects will be to cut hair at someone else's barbershop.
Entrepreneurship is hard and I know it from experience, but have you ever taken care of someone 24 hours a day? An alzheimers patient or a developmentally disabled child?
My dad has AD and I'm his primary caregiver and compared to caregiving, entrepreneurship with all its pain is literally a fucking joy. Happiest part of my day even when making $0. I've failed at entprenreurship badly for a 2+ years but psychologically I have none of the pain associated with it because I know how much harder life can be.
Don't get me wrong, if I had the chance I would walk away from both but once you've experienced the toll of careigvng, you quit complaining about how hard entrepreneurship is.
I sometimes think that all wannabe entrepreneurs should work as a fulltime caregiver at an old age home or childrens ward at a hospital for 2 weeks. It would lessen the "pain" of entrepreneurship 10 fold.
That would reframe a lot of the pain away and help you focus on what needs to be done to market/sell a product and build it.
The truth is that the "pain" is 100% psychological and most children bought up in middle class and above families have never experienced what it means to have nothing.
Entrepreneurs who have grown up poor don't even understand what I'm talking about when I try to explain this concept.
So volunteer in the peace corps and it'll take away 100% of the pain of entrepreneurship and help you focus on executing.
My dad has AD and I'm his primary caregiver and compared to caregiving, entrepreneurship with all its pain is literally a fucking joy. Happiest part of my day even when making $0. I've failed at entprenreurship badly for a 2+ years but psychologically I have none of the pain associated with it because I know how much harder life can be.
Don't get me wrong, if I had the chance I would walk away from both but once you've experienced the toll of careigvng, you quit complaining about how hard entrepreneurship is.
I sometimes think that all wannabe entrepreneurs should work as a fulltime caregiver at an old age home or childrens ward at a hospital for 2 weeks. It would lessen the "pain" of entrepreneurship 10 fold.
That would reframe a lot of the pain away and help you focus on what needs to be done to market/sell a product and build it.
The truth is that the "pain" is 100% psychological and most children bought up in middle class and above families have never experienced what it means to have nothing.
Entrepreneurs who have grown up poor don't even understand what I'm talking about when I try to explain this concept.
So volunteer in the peace corps and it'll take away 100% of the pain of entrepreneurship and help you focus on executing.
I used to work as a care assistant. I basically agree with the parent but while reading about massive psychological toll of being rejected I could not help but think "try to observe a half-conscious guy in terminal stadium of cancer moan and scream from pain for hours before he finally dies" - I was working night shifts and after THAT I could not believe that sun was still rising.
And working as a minimum wage 'robo-slave' in a pen factory for one week when I was at high school made me realize that this kind of work is no cake either.
Entrepreneurship, however hard, is still one of the easiest methods how to make a living.
And working as a minimum wage 'robo-slave' in a pen factory for one week when I was at high school made me realize that this kind of work is no cake either.
Entrepreneurship, however hard, is still one of the easiest methods how to make a living.
Frankly, your post sounds like a piece of dialog from the Four Yorkshiremen sketch.
The point, from my interpretation, is not that entrepreneurship is mind-numbingly painful but that it is deceitfully painful, while care-giving for an Alzheimer's patient is expected to be painful.
The point, from my interpretation, is not that entrepreneurship is mind-numbingly painful but that it is deceitfully painful, while care-giving for an Alzheimer's patient is expected to be painful.
Did you really mean to write a comment that implies that entrepreneurship might be harder than caring for someone dying of Alzheimers?
Sorry, you'll have to point it out to me. Sometimes my grasp of English isn't good enough, I'm afraid.
So basically you can't be successful as an entrepreneur unless you're a sociopath? That's a disappointingly cynical view.
Some advice from someone who has also been in the trenches:
First, you don't need to waste time thinking or complaining about angels and VCs when you start a business you can fund yourself.
Second, if you're expecting growth to come easily and quickly, and you don't have the capital necessary to execute a realistic plan in a realistic amount of time, you're setting yourself up for unnecessary disappointment before you even begin.
Third, if you can't identify the primary drivers of your success and truly believe that you have 100 things to do, you don't have a good understanding of your business.
Fourth, fundraising won't impact your team when you don't need to raise capital.
Fifth, rejection, while hard, is a part of life. Even the most successful salespeople hear "no" far more often than they hear "yes." If you have unrealistic expectations about this and can't maintain a positive attitude unless you close the majority of the people you sell to, you might want to reconsider entrepreneurship.
Some advice from someone who has also been in the trenches:
First, you don't need to waste time thinking or complaining about angels and VCs when you start a business you can fund yourself.
Second, if you're expecting growth to come easily and quickly, and you don't have the capital necessary to execute a realistic plan in a realistic amount of time, you're setting yourself up for unnecessary disappointment before you even begin.
Third, if you can't identify the primary drivers of your success and truly believe that you have 100 things to do, you don't have a good understanding of your business.
Fourth, fundraising won't impact your team when you don't need to raise capital.
Fifth, rejection, while hard, is a part of life. Even the most successful salespeople hear "no" far more often than they hear "yes." If you have unrealistic expectations about this and can't maintain a positive attitude unless you close the majority of the people you sell to, you might want to reconsider entrepreneurship.
I forgot to add, you're always going to run into smug people who haven't walked in your shoes.
I have started several companies that have failed. One of them cost me my life savings and left me no choice but to take an entry-level job to make ends meet. I learned a lot from that experience, a small portion of which was incorporated into my response to your comment.
It might be convenient for you to believe that anybody who disagrees with your negative perspective hasn't been in the trenches, but that doesn't make it reality.
Failure is part of the game. Very few successful entrepreneurs have no losses. If you truly believe that VCs or a lack of sociopathic tendencies are to blame for the failure of a new business, I would humbly suggest that you reconsider. Such a cynical attitude is far more likely to be a detriment to one's efforts than any external force.
It might be convenient for you to believe that anybody who disagrees with your negative perspective hasn't been in the trenches, but that doesn't make it reality.
Failure is part of the game. Very few successful entrepreneurs have no losses. If you truly believe that VCs or a lack of sociopathic tendencies are to blame for the failure of a new business, I would humbly suggest that you reconsider. Such a cynical attitude is far more likely to be a detriment to one's efforts than any external force.
I used to encourage everyone I know to quit their job and start a company. Now, after having done just that, I no longer recommend this path. Not because I regret doing it. In fact, I think it was one of the best decisions I've ever made. But the road is, as the article says, about as romantic as "chewing glass."
Sure, there are wonderful days when things are working even better than I had planned. But then there are also the regular sleepless nights where I wake up puking, just from the stress. And it's been like this for years. It's a great path for the right person, but if you need someone to talk you into starting a business, then you're probably not cut out to be an entrepreneur. Owning a business isn't all it's chalked up to be. Turns out it ends up owning you. And yet, there's an amazing satisfaction that comes from entrepreneurship that you just can't get by working for someone else.
Sure, there are wonderful days when things are working even better than I had planned. But then there are also the regular sleepless nights where I wake up puking, just from the stress. And it's been like this for years. It's a great path for the right person, but if you need someone to talk you into starting a business, then you're probably not cut out to be an entrepreneur. Owning a business isn't all it's chalked up to be. Turns out it ends up owning you. And yet, there's an amazing satisfaction that comes from entrepreneurship that you just can't get by working for someone else.
>"then you're probably not cut out to be an entrepreneur."
I don't know why, but comments like this rub me the wrong way. Not that I don't agree that entrepreneurship is extremely difficult, it is!... just that I think people have a way of surviving and developing coping mechanisms for whatever life throws at them.
The fact that you have sleepness nights and puke from the stress tells me that you are not cut out for it.. yet, you are doing it...and without regrets.
Humans have a way of being resilliant.There is only one measure that determines if you are cut out for it or not...and that's if you try and it ends up ruining your life.
This idea that entrepreneurs tell others - that they are not cut out for doing a startup is really just a classic case of putting others down to prop yourself up.
If you want to do a startup, DO IT! Don't let others talk you out of it by convincing you that you aren't cut out for it. Short of a therapist encouraging you to avoid it, I would discount that advice as an insecure founder trying to make himself feel better about coping so poorly.
I don't know why, but comments like this rub me the wrong way. Not that I don't agree that entrepreneurship is extremely difficult, it is!... just that I think people have a way of surviving and developing coping mechanisms for whatever life throws at them.
The fact that you have sleepness nights and puke from the stress tells me that you are not cut out for it.. yet, you are doing it...and without regrets.
Humans have a way of being resilliant.There is only one measure that determines if you are cut out for it or not...and that's if you try and it ends up ruining your life.
This idea that entrepreneurs tell others - that they are not cut out for doing a startup is really just a classic case of putting others down to prop yourself up.
If you want to do a startup, DO IT! Don't let others talk you out of it by convincing you that you aren't cut out for it. Short of a therapist encouraging you to avoid it, I would discount that advice as an insecure founder trying to make himself feel better about coping so poorly.
We should replace that phrase with "Then you've not developed the habits and mindset to be an entrepreneur."
People aren't born ready for anything but shitting and sucking nipples. They learn everything else.
People aren't born ready for anything but shitting and sucking nipples. They learn everything else.
In this context, I find Charles Bukowski's poem [1] "Roll the Dice" resonating. I love to re-read it over again from time to time and remind myself that it's a long-term plan and a massive grind.
[1] Roll the Dice - https://vimeo.com/78472610
if you’re going to try, go all the way. otherwise, don’t even start.
if you’re going to try, go all the way. this could mean losing girlfriends, wives, relatives, jobs and maybe your mind.
go all the way. it could mean not eating for 3 or 4 days. it could mean freezing on a park bench. it could mean jail, it could mean derision, mockery, isolation. isolation is the gift, all the others are a test of your endurance, of how much you really want to do it. and you’ll do it despite rejection and the worst odds and it will be better than anything else you can imagine.
if you’re going to try, go all the way. there is no other feeling like that. you will be alone with the gods and the nights will flame with fire.
do it, do it, do it. do it.
all the way all the way.
you will ride life straight to perfect laughter, its the only good fight there is.
[1] Roll the Dice - https://vimeo.com/78472610
if you’re going to try, go all the way. otherwise, don’t even start.
if you’re going to try, go all the way. this could mean losing girlfriends, wives, relatives, jobs and maybe your mind.
go all the way. it could mean not eating for 3 or 4 days. it could mean freezing on a park bench. it could mean jail, it could mean derision, mockery, isolation. isolation is the gift, all the others are a test of your endurance, of how much you really want to do it. and you’ll do it despite rejection and the worst odds and it will be better than anything else you can imagine.
if you’re going to try, go all the way. there is no other feeling like that. you will be alone with the gods and the nights will flame with fire.
do it, do it, do it. do it.
all the way all the way.
you will ride life straight to perfect laughter, its the only good fight there is.
This is great. Thanks!
When people ask me if they should start a company, I do a short interview with them to understand their motivation. It's usually dissatisfaction with their job combined with a grass-is-greener view of entrepreneurship. I believe in many circumstances people have a higher chance of finding happiness by pouring deliberate energy into finding a great job rather than starting their own company.
I quit a good banking job after making it through the recession and several rounds of layoffs. My friends thought I was nuts. I had friends take me out to lunch and tell me most people were looking for jobs, not quitting them. But I didn't quit just because I was dissatisfied. At the heart of it, I just felt like a caged animal and I knew I had to break free.
I don't regret taking the leap, but I also didn't need to be convinced nor did I carefully ask people what they thought. It's sort of something that needs to be done because you're the right kind of crazy.
The thing I've learned from trying to be independent for four years is that you always have to answer to someone. Whether it's a boss or customers or business partners or the platform provider you depend on you are never truly "free".
I don't buy this. As CEO you have the right to say "You know what Big Important Customer? You're a dick and I don't want to do business with you."
That is a strategically stupid thing to do. You may not ever actually do it. But being able to do that without having to answer to anyone but yourself is enough. There's a very real psychological difference.
That is a strategically stupid thing to do. You may not ever actually do it. But being able to do that without having to answer to anyone but yourself is enough. There's a very real psychological difference.
You have the right to say this while being the lowest ranking employee in the company, not CEO. But when you're CEO, you have other people you're responsible for, you hired them and they depend on you being able to run the business so they can feed their families. Saying "fuck you" to the customer who is bringing you 10% of revenue is not what CEO can really do.
The CEO is the only person who can do that. Also, DoD you read me 2nd paragraph?
How is this any different from telling your boss to go fuck him/herself? Many small businesses depend on one or two big clients for their livelihood.
Freedom of will to choose whose will can constrain concurrency.
I do a short interview with them to understand their motivation.
Could you please try me?
I have a good job as a software engineer at a successful start up. I am introvert and somewhat shy (although less then I used to be). I don't think many people could imagine me as a CEO. Nonetheless here are the reasons I want to start a company:
- I want to do something meaningful. I don't mean curing cancer, but having small, positive impact on other people though software. My current job provides that, but only in very small, indirect way.
- I need to have as much control as possible over what I work on, if my work seems pointless it's a huge demotivator for me.
- My father is an successful entrepreneur and I think that rolemodel influenced me.
- I dream of financial independence in my 30ies (working only when I want to). I know that this is not a good reason, but nonetheless part of my motivation.
EDIT: I rewrote some of this, because my I failed to express myself in my first attempt
Could you please try me?
I have a good job as a software engineer at a successful start up. I am introvert and somewhat shy (although less then I used to be). I don't think many people could imagine me as a CEO. Nonetheless here are the reasons I want to start a company:
- I want to do something meaningful. I don't mean curing cancer, but having small, positive impact on other people though software. My current job provides that, but only in very small, indirect way.
- I need to have as much control as possible over what I work on, if my work seems pointless it's a huge demotivator for me.
- My father is an successful entrepreneur and I think that rolemodel influenced me.
- I dream of financial independence in my 30ies (working only when I want to). I know that this is not a good reason, but nonetheless part of my motivation.
EDIT: I rewrote some of this, because my I failed to express myself in my first attempt
"I need to have as much control as possible over what I work on, if my work seems pointless it's a huge demotivator for me."
There are non-founder roles at companies where you can have complete technical control and a lot of product control. Growth hackers / technical marketers, data scientists and analytics people at small and mid sized companies, for example.
Coming on as a first engineer is another good option to tick this box.
"I want to do something meaningful"
Would working on a google x project count? What about an early engineer at someones funded and ambitious startup? It's not easy to get those roles, sure. It's also not easy to start a company working on something extremely meaningful. As a first time entrepreneur you're often going to need to work on an iterative solution in a more proven market because investors won't fund you on pre-traction moonshot ideas, and moonshot ideas don't often have early traction. For most people, unless you have an unusual background or set of connections that door won't open until you're a successful serial entrepreneur. What would happen if you took 1/10th of the energy and time you would need to start and succeed at your first business and instead use it to deliberately find job opportunities, learn relevant skills, promote your professional identity, and network in industries you care about? If you can get a new job or a significant promotion every 12 months, you should have no problem getting to a highly paid and meaningful role with autonomy. And all without putting your finances on the line.
There are non-founder roles at companies where you can have complete technical control and a lot of product control. Growth hackers / technical marketers, data scientists and analytics people at small and mid sized companies, for example.
Coming on as a first engineer is another good option to tick this box.
"I want to do something meaningful"
Would working on a google x project count? What about an early engineer at someones funded and ambitious startup? It's not easy to get those roles, sure. It's also not easy to start a company working on something extremely meaningful. As a first time entrepreneur you're often going to need to work on an iterative solution in a more proven market because investors won't fund you on pre-traction moonshot ideas, and moonshot ideas don't often have early traction. For most people, unless you have an unusual background or set of connections that door won't open until you're a successful serial entrepreneur. What would happen if you took 1/10th of the energy and time you would need to start and succeed at your first business and instead use it to deliberately find job opportunities, learn relevant skills, promote your professional identity, and network in industries you care about? If you can get a new job or a significant promotion every 12 months, you should have no problem getting to a highly paid and meaningful role with autonomy. And all without putting your finances on the line.
None of these sound like great reasons. I'm four years into starting a business. Here was my motivation:
I wanted to be free of my time. I had read the four hour workweek, and longed for income to that was mostly automatic.
Your motives don't seem like mine. You sound like you might be a better candidate for this:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/
That's a reasonable guide to retiring in your 30s. The author was a software engineer. He just reduced his spending and saved a high % of his salary.
* A burning desire not to work for anyone else.
* A desire, not to retire, but to free up time for all the other things I want to do. Chiefly learning.
I wanted to be free of my time. I had read the four hour workweek, and longed for income to that was mostly automatic.
Your motives don't seem like mine. You sound like you might be a better candidate for this:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/
That's a reasonable guide to retiring in your 30s. The author was a software engineer. He just reduced his spending and saved a high % of his salary.
A burning desire not to work for anyone else.
Thing is, you're always working for someone else. A boss, a customer, an investor etc.
As far as I'm concerned the only really good reason to do your own thing is that you get to choose what to work on, provided what you want to work on is actually financially viable.
Thing is, you're always working for someone else. A boss, a customer, an investor etc.
As far as I'm concerned the only really good reason to do your own thing is that you get to choose what to work on, provided what you want to work on is actually financially viable.
I think made a really wrong impression in that post. Somehow I can't really find the right words to express myself right now.
While I understand the appeal of passive income, I think I would rather work 24/7 on something really meaningful.
Your motives don't seem like mine.
That is not necessarily a bad thing. There are many types of entrepreneurs.
While I understand the appeal of passive income, I think I would rather work 24/7 on something really meaningful.
Your motives don't seem like mine.
That is not necessarily a bad thing. There are many types of entrepreneurs.
Maybe try building something on the side in your spare time complimentary to the business you work for?
> I dream about retirement in my 30ies.
If this is what you want, then pare your life down to the bare minimum (get roommates, don't buy gadgets, don't eat out, drive a sensible sub-$15k car, or no car at all if possible), and invest and save every penny you make as a highly paid software engineer. That's a much more surefire way to early retirement.
If this is what you want, then pare your life down to the bare minimum (get roommates, don't buy gadgets, don't eat out, drive a sensible sub-$15k car, or no car at all if possible), and invest and save every penny you make as a highly paid software engineer. That's a much more surefire way to early retirement.
And switch jobs or get external offers often, and use it to ratchet up your salary to the higher end of market rate. Work for big corporations (they pay better), or be employee #1 or #2 of startup (stock >= 5% or it ain't worth it). Only do projects that have a high probability of success and which will make your resume more valuable. Live frugally and put it all into savings and passive investments.
Not what I do, but it's the best course of action for most people who want to retire in their 30's.
EDIT: As for what I do, I'm co-founder at a well funded startup, although without a CxO title, after bootstrapping a different business nights and weekends for around 2-3 years and fulltime for 1 year. My motivations are similar to graeme -- a burning desire to not work for someone else, and a driving need to accomplish certain things in the course of my life which no one else is doing. Also a certain uncomfortableness with perceived stupidity in how things are organized, which miraculously went away when I was the one doing the organizing. For people like me, taking responsibility relieves stress.
Not what I do, but it's the best course of action for most people who want to retire in their 30's.
EDIT: As for what I do, I'm co-founder at a well funded startup, although without a CxO title, after bootstrapping a different business nights and weekends for around 2-3 years and fulltime for 1 year. My motivations are similar to graeme -- a burning desire to not work for someone else, and a driving need to accomplish certain things in the course of my life which no one else is doing. Also a certain uncomfortableness with perceived stupidity in how things are organized, which miraculously went away when I was the one doing the organizing. For people like me, taking responsibility relieves stress.
I shouldn't have mentioned this. I was trying to be as honest as possible with myself, and that is one of the images that comes up. But what I really meant was financial independence (working only when I want to).
I have a family, so I can't save every penny, I am already payed at the higher end of market rate and I could never ever work in corporate job.
I have a family, so I can't save every penny, I am already payed at the higher end of market rate and I could never ever work in corporate job.
Hrm that's trickier, although the specifics depends on your family situation (does your significant other work?). I have a family myself, wife and two kids. I can say from experience that what would have helped was having a large rainy day fund - e.g. 1/2 your annual salary. I had a much smaller amount set aside, which was only barely enough to make it to a comfortable job as a higher up in a startup (see my edit above). And to be honest the stress and uncertainty almost destroyed my marriage, even though she was very, very supportive of my choice.
Having a much larger savings would have helped. Having a plan B is also good. With a family you need a safety net.
I'll be honest that your options are more limited, but I'm proof that it is possible.
But is it what you really want? Whether you go this route depends on what is driving you, and how strongly.
Are you local? Feel free to reach out to me if you want more advice from a parent entrepreneur. My email is in my profile.
Having a much larger savings would have helped. Having a plan B is also good. With a family you need a safety net.
I'll be honest that your options are more limited, but I'm proof that it is possible.
But is it what you really want? Whether you go this route depends on what is driving you, and how strongly.
Are you local? Feel free to reach out to me if you want more advice from a parent entrepreneur. My email is in my profile.
> I have a family
Its going to be 10x harder for you, if you have a family.
Why dont you start working on weekends/spare time on your idea, if you get some traction then you can think about quitting your job.
Its going to be 10x harder for you, if you have a family.
Why dont you start working on weekends/spare time on your idea, if you get some traction then you can think about quitting your job.
I wholeheartedly disagree. A much more important factor is how ready you are and what kind of support structure you have to start out with. If that is later in a career (and when you have a family) so be it. It's the right time.
Founded current company with two young kids and just had a third. Pulling together the right team way more of a factor than having a family.
Founded current company with two young kids and just had a third. Pulling together the right team way more of a factor than having a family.
> Why dont you start working on weekends/spare time on your idea
I suspect you don't have a family ;)
If you have a family it is better to start moving on your idea within normal business hours, where legally possible (some creativity may be required).
I suspect you don't have a family ;)
If you have a family it is better to start moving on your idea within normal business hours, where legally possible (some creativity may be required).
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Indeed this stuff is not easy.
Here are my personal highs and lows....
Pros & Highs... - My resume is nifty; neat/awesome jobs are easy to land - Been accredited for creating first of its kind idea - Alway receiving spontaneous applause when demoing due to concepts being novel/cool - Featured in many tech publications - Receiving seed money - Winning awards at tech events - Exciting things happen for weeks in a row
Lows... - Being pretty much broke & in debt - G/f of many years wants stability before kids - Doing this pretty much alone & at my age (late 30s) connecting w/local techies has been tough. Though I've tried. - Nothing going on for weeks in a row - Not able to keep cool job opportunities for more then a year. Those who hire me are cool with my start-ups then not - INSTABILITY!!!
Is it worth it, for me YES, as the highs I noted above can never be experienced at 9 to 5 desk job! Though I do long for stability as I want to have a family.
Here are my personal highs and lows....
Pros & Highs... - My resume is nifty; neat/awesome jobs are easy to land - Been accredited for creating first of its kind idea - Alway receiving spontaneous applause when demoing due to concepts being novel/cool - Featured in many tech publications - Receiving seed money - Winning awards at tech events - Exciting things happen for weeks in a row
Lows... - Being pretty much broke & in debt - G/f of many years wants stability before kids - Doing this pretty much alone & at my age (late 30s) connecting w/local techies has been tough. Though I've tried. - Nothing going on for weeks in a row - Not able to keep cool job opportunities for more then a year. Those who hire me are cool with my start-ups then not - INSTABILITY!!!
Is it worth it, for me YES, as the highs I noted above can never be experienced at 9 to 5 desk job! Though I do long for stability as I want to have a family.
"And yet, there's an amazing satisfaction that comes from entrepreneurship that you just can't get by working for someone else.".
Are you sure about this? For everyone? How?
Are you sure about this? For everyone? How?
It doesn't have to be that way. It certainly wasn't for me.
The cool thing about running your own business is that you can run it any way you like. Yes, you can work 120 hour weeks, lose your wife, and have your heart attack at 45. But you can also work one 8 hour day per week, with a quick 10 minute email spin on the other weekdays, and spend the rest of your time enjoying your life.
Both of those routes will get your product shipped, fit it to the market, and ramp you up to a full time living if you do it right.
The idea that you have to work yourself into the ground is just a story they tell people to scare them off. The reality is that entrepreneurship isn't particularly hard, particularly stressful, or particularly scary. Unless you want it to be.
The cool thing about running your own business is that you can run it any way you like. Yes, you can work 120 hour weeks, lose your wife, and have your heart attack at 45. But you can also work one 8 hour day per week, with a quick 10 minute email spin on the other weekdays, and spend the rest of your time enjoying your life.
Both of those routes will get your product shipped, fit it to the market, and ramp you up to a full time living if you do it right.
The idea that you have to work yourself into the ground is just a story they tell people to scare them off. The reality is that entrepreneurship isn't particularly hard, particularly stressful, or particularly scary. Unless you want it to be.
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Having had a look at your website I have to say the whole going off the beach in Asia and doing some coding stuff seems quite a good idea.
My standard advice to folks with corporate jobs who want to venture out on their own is this- hire a couple of guys to vet out your idea. Get the product market fit right, get the MVP done and have someone start talking to potential customers while you are still making a salary. If it is difficult to set aside $5K-$8K per month for this while you are working, it'll be significantly harder once you are not bringing in anything.
One of the biggest lessons for me when I did my own start up was that no one else is on the same timeline as you are. They go on their long holidays while you are refreshing gmail every minute to see whether they replied to your email.
All the while, you are trying to survive on whatever you have in your diminishing bank account.
Age also is a definite factor. If you are in your early twenties and used to surviving on $1500 of research assistantship from university, it is much easier to take random bets. You'll only learn from them. Once you are beyond a certain stage in your life, the equation totally changes.
I used to think this was bad advice (hiring out to others to vet your idea) and would actively advise startups against it, but the more I work with entrepreneurs the more I'm coming around to the view that this is a good route to take for someone who is working full-time and considering jumping off to do their startup.
By hiring out to vet the idea it reduces the confirmation bias that entrepreneurs face when researching their own ideas. As you noted, it forces an upfront financial commitment on the part of the entrepreneur, helping them realize what it will take to properly fund a startup at scale. It's also a time saver - trying to talk to potential customers (particularly for B2B startups) while holding down a full-time job is very difficult.
Of course, the entrepreneur should still be involved to the greatest extent possible, otherwise any early learning from the customer conversations, MVPs, etc. is lost...
By hiring out to vet the idea it reduces the confirmation bias that entrepreneurs face when researching their own ideas. As you noted, it forces an upfront financial commitment on the part of the entrepreneur, helping them realize what it will take to properly fund a startup at scale. It's also a time saver - trying to talk to potential customers (particularly for B2B startups) while holding down a full-time job is very difficult.
Of course, the entrepreneur should still be involved to the greatest extent possible, otherwise any early learning from the customer conversations, MVPs, etc. is lost...
As an entrepreneur I agree that our job is probably more demanding and stressful than your usual 9-to-5 in a big corporation, but I would never say that we have a hard life. Here's why:
- We have chosen this path ourselves, nobody forced us to run our own business and play the startup game.
- We are able to do something we love all day and possibly even make a lot of money doing so.
- We can decide ourselves how much we actually work and how we organize our life (even if most people pretend they can't).
- If our business fails, we can (mostly) just go back working in a high-paying job in industry.
That's not exactly what I call a hard life. If you think it is, you might wanna take a look outside your IT-/Silicon-Valley bubble, where many people get up every day at 5 am, work 12 hours in a job they don't like but can't quit because they need the money and still are barely able to make ends meet. To them, most of our "problems" would be luxuries to have.
- We have chosen this path ourselves, nobody forced us to run our own business and play the startup game.
- We are able to do something we love all day and possibly even make a lot of money doing so.
- We can decide ourselves how much we actually work and how we organize our life (even if most people pretend they can't).
- If our business fails, we can (mostly) just go back working in a high-paying job in industry.
That's not exactly what I call a hard life. If you think it is, you might wanna take a look outside your IT-/Silicon-Valley bubble, where many people get up every day at 5 am, work 12 hours in a job they don't like but can't quit because they need the money and still are barely able to make ends meet. To them, most of our "problems" would be luxuries to have.
This is a welcome article to read this week. I'm in the process of winding down my abortive startup and fielding a lot of questions from confused friends who think I'm just months away from giving them a ride on my yacht. The reality is much, much different. I look forward to having a fulltime job again and having time for music.
Focusing on the hardships of entrepreneurship is just a different way of romanticizing it.
Maybe it's my own history and previous life path, but starting a business with a best friend has been one of the mots natural and fun things I've ever done. There are obstacles, and I'm sure the road is rough going for a lot of entrepreneurs, but... This has been the best kind of work I feel that I will ever do, with respect to my own life goals. It takes a certain type, certainly.
That being said, and as a print subscriber to The Economist, I was a bit overwhelmed by this article, which reads like propaganda or cult literature. What I do is hard work, sure, but society doesn't owe me respect for all my hard work (and sympathy for my sacrifices) anymore than they owe farmers or factory workers. And definitely not as much as the guys working on the garbage trucks.
That being said, and as a print subscriber to The Economist, I was a bit overwhelmed by this article, which reads like propaganda or cult literature. What I do is hard work, sure, but society doesn't owe me respect for all my hard work (and sympathy for my sacrifices) anymore than they owe farmers or factory workers. And definitely not as much as the guys working on the garbage trucks.
> Would-be entrepreneurs need to have a more measured view of the risks involved before they start a business. But society also needs to have more respect for people who put their lives on the line to build something from nothing.
Anyone entering the startup space thinking their lives will be easier is going in with their 'eyes wide shut'. Having said that, if you manage your own personal expectations of being the next Mark Zuckerberg and are realistic, then you should manage.
Always make sure you have more money then you think you need to prove your concept, always estimate longer then you need and always listen to what your body says it needs.
Great article.
Anyone entering the startup space thinking their lives will be easier is going in with their 'eyes wide shut'. Having said that, if you manage your own personal expectations of being the next Mark Zuckerberg and are realistic, then you should manage.
Always make sure you have more money then you think you need to prove your concept, always estimate longer then you need and always listen to what your body says it needs.
Great article.
I am also on the verge of starting a company, and it makes me afraid. More so, upon reading this thread. Looks like there are lot of entrepreneurs in this thread, so some advice maybe good for me. I have identified a pain point in a present system at my company, and since then got to know that this is a industry wide problem. My employer would not solve this issue, and would not give me permission to build it on my own time, as one of my colleague suggested the same six months back and they were not enthusiastic and would not release him from the specific clause in the job's terms and conditions. One of my Managers, who left the company, and is still on good terms with me proposed the idea to his company and the company wants to see the initial prototype. I have none at this point, so will need to develop it.
The problem is, I cannot forego my job income because of upcoming personal situation. Potential customer will not give me lump sum money, and wants to hire me as a consultant, but then I would not be able to sell it to other customers. If I build the product in my spare time, my employer owns it as it is directly in company's field of operation. Angel networking people I have talked to have also asked for a working prototype, but I have none and for building one a good developer will be needed.
So can somebody please give some suggestions on this? Or if someone from Edmonton or Alberta is reading this please get in touch with me @ [email protected] .
The problem is, I cannot forego my job income because of upcoming personal situation. Potential customer will not give me lump sum money, and wants to hire me as a consultant, but then I would not be able to sell it to other customers. If I build the product in my spare time, my employer owns it as it is directly in company's field of operation. Angel networking people I have talked to have also asked for a working prototype, but I have none and for building one a good developer will be needed.
So can somebody please give some suggestions on this? Or if someone from Edmonton or Alberta is reading this please get in touch with me @ [email protected] .
Actually, this sounds like a non-problem.
The most crucial first step is to change your frame of mind: you're not bound to any employer, and your personal time is entirely your own.
Develop a prototype in your own time, get lots of feedback to improve it, and suddenly all sorts of avenues and options will be open to you.
You could license it back to your company (for a price); if that's rejected, go somewhere else. It certainly sounds as though there's a gap in the market, so the obvious thing to do would be to fill it - ASAP.
Think of it this way: you're working your way toward financial freedom. Why allow anyone to put obstacles in your way?
The most crucial first step is to change your frame of mind: you're not bound to any employer, and your personal time is entirely your own.
Develop a prototype in your own time, get lots of feedback to improve it, and suddenly all sorts of avenues and options will be open to you.
You could license it back to your company (for a price); if that's rejected, go somewhere else. It certainly sounds as though there's a gap in the market, so the obvious thing to do would be to fill it - ASAP.
Think of it this way: you're working your way toward financial freedom. Why allow anyone to put obstacles in your way?
I think iamshs was saying " If I build the product in my spare time, my employer owns it as it is directly in company's field of operation"
Maybe iamshs could switch to another job, perhaps something a bit more part time without the non competes and build the thing on the side then?
Maybe iamshs could switch to another job, perhaps something a bit more part time without the non competes and build the thing on the side then?
Yup, my job's clause states that any product directly aligned with company's processes will be owned by the company, even if built away from company's property.
That is what I was thinking, of changing jobs. I have talked to lot of friends and they all have this clause as a standard. I think going part-time is a good suggestion. Because even yesterday I had a chance meeting with one of local company's director and he was also up to see the product and said if I "build it solidly, company will be my first flag". I want to build this thing ASAP.
That is what I was thinking, of changing jobs. I have talked to lot of friends and they all have this clause as a standard. I think going part-time is a good suggestion. Because even yesterday I had a chance meeting with one of local company's director and he was also up to see the product and said if I "build it solidly, company will be my first flag". I want to build this thing ASAP.
As a person hoping to start my own business within the next couple of months, this scares me quite a bit.
Honestly the entire notion of building my own company and not having the security of a stable paycheck is frightening. But even taking that into account, it doesn't diminish my desire to keep following this path regardless of the risk and warnings I've frequently heard.
Maybe this means I'm "over optimistic" bordering on "completely delusional" but I'll be damned if I don't try and make this work anyways.
Honestly the entire notion of building my own company and not having the security of a stable paycheck is frightening. But even taking that into account, it doesn't diminish my desire to keep following this path regardless of the risk and warnings I've frequently heard.
Maybe this means I'm "over optimistic" bordering on "completely delusional" but I'll be damned if I don't try and make this work anyways.
The terms optimistic and delusional describe the two states of hypomania. Hypomania can be managed through good diet, exercise, meditation and other things that have absolutely zero to do with your business and everything to do with you. However, you are what makes your business successful at the end of the day. Manage it like you manage your business.
It is a game of survival. You have to try several tricks to keep yourself afloat until you reach what you call as success. Being lean (in my case I am a single founder), fit physically and mentally (I did not do this so aggressively when I was employed:-), keeping track of your expenses (some sort of cash flow), going for little money once in a while in a consulting mode, having sufficient capital to not disturb your family all and more are needed till you think you have reached the point where you have exhausted all options - research, market, positioning, customer demos , partnering and so on.
The article cites Aaron Levie as an example.
Someone in his 20s who has already raised hundreds of millions of dollars and is already a millionaire.
Hardly the example of the struggling entrepreneur the article is warning us about.
Someone in his 20s who has already raised hundreds of millions of dollars and is already a millionaire.
Hardly the example of the struggling entrepreneur the article is warning us about.
I really like the part of the article that talks about taking breaks. Entrepreneurs = work hard. I am a big believer in working on nights when others are having a good time, but you got to take care of yourself. Burning out only slows you down ultimately.
I like to surround myself with family and activities I love to recharge my battery. Often when I come back to working on my project the creative ideas come flowing out.
I like to surround myself with family and activities I love to recharge my battery. Often when I come back to working on my project the creative ideas come flowing out.
> Entrepreneurs = work hard
Not if you're picking your battles, planning ahead, and executing right.
[I assume you mean "work late". There's nothing wrong with working hard, 9-5, 5 days a week.]
The entrepreneur is the responsible one that will work hard and work late when he has to. The trick is never having to.
Not if you're picking your battles, planning ahead, and executing right.
[I assume you mean "work late". There's nothing wrong with working hard, 9-5, 5 days a week.]
The entrepreneur is the responsible one that will work hard and work late when he has to. The trick is never having to.
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As a fellow serial entrepreneur, it seems to me that between success, sleep, and living the life, you can only pick 2 out of the three.
I hope "living the life" means living how you want it and not really the traditional notion of living luxuriously. I personally want to start a business to have an impact and to build something other people want to use. That would be living the life for me, regardless if I'm sipping Pina Coladas on the beach by noon.
The Economist is one of my favourite magazines. Their rhetoric never waffles or glosses over issues. A good example from this article:
"Management literature is full of guff about how entrepreneurs should embrace failure as a “learning experience”. But being punched in the face is also a learning experience."
"Management literature is full of guff about how entrepreneurs should embrace failure as a “learning experience”. But being punched in the face is also a learning experience."
I actually did some fighting and getting punched in the face really is the best learning experience when the goal is to learn how to protect yourself. If we didn't throw real punches than we would never learn how to handle real punches. And sometimes you got hit...in the face.
> make time to exercise and learn to relax
This is the #1 priority for me now.
This is the #1 priority for me now.
tl:dr - balance your mind and body.
The hardest thing about entrepreneurial success for me personally is the envy it has generated. I wasn't prepared for it.
When I first started seeing results in my business, I quit my job and was able to spend a lot of time doing whatever I wanted. My wife would post pictures of us constantly going on day trips and vacations. It pissed some important people in my life off, and they became very passive aggressive towards me.
It's easy for people who haven't experienced it to assume it's easy to ignore, but when your family members start off by criticizing you, then doubting you, then watching you succeed beyond what they could have imagined, they can end up feeling extremely violated.
I spent the first two years feeling sorry for myself that so and so wasn't talking to me. Now, I've moved on and am stronger than ever.
When I first started seeing results in my business, I quit my job and was able to spend a lot of time doing whatever I wanted. My wife would post pictures of us constantly going on day trips and vacations. It pissed some important people in my life off, and they became very passive aggressive towards me.
It's easy for people who haven't experienced it to assume it's easy to ignore, but when your family members start off by criticizing you, then doubting you, then watching you succeed beyond what they could have imagined, they can end up feeling extremely violated.
I spent the first two years feeling sorry for myself that so and so wasn't talking to me. Now, I've moved on and am stronger than ever.
This is also one of the weird things about 'getting rich' (or a rapid change in net worth to the positive). A friend of mine who actually made it out of the dot com era with lots of residual wealth, was retelling a situation where a co-worker asked what he had done over the long weekend; What he had actually done was fly down to the Carribean with his girlfriend and spent the weekend on a sailboat (he lived in Boston). He related that he could say what he had done, but then his co-worker is pissed off because he thinks he his bragging, he can not say anything and get them pissed off about being anti-social, or he can lie about what he did, which when it gets out that it was a lie he gets in trouble too.
His take on it was he wasn't going to not do these things because it caused problems, he just wouldn't socialize. When you have kids and your friends don't, they don't want to hear about your kids and yet they are consuming your life. When your an entrepreneur and your friends aren't they don't want to hear about your business and yet your business is all you spend your time on.
His take on it was he wasn't going to not do these things because it caused problems, he just wouldn't socialize. When you have kids and your friends don't, they don't want to hear about your kids and yet they are consuming your life. When your an entrepreneur and your friends aren't they don't want to hear about your business and yet your business is all you spend your time on.
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I'm sorry some of your relationships suffered due to your success. I doubt I've been as successful as you, but some people have reacted similarly in my life. I think it can help to view some forms of envy as a mental illness.[1] It's not your fault they're behaving that way, so don't take it personally. If these people are important to you, keep trying to reach out. They might come around eventually.
1. It's important to separate good and bad forms of envy. Bad envy involves wishing misfortune upon someone. Good envy doesn't. Many people envy Elon Musk, but don't wish him any ill and want him to succeed.
1. It's important to separate good and bad forms of envy. Bad envy involves wishing misfortune upon someone. Good envy doesn't. Many people envy Elon Musk, but don't wish him any ill and want him to succeed.
I want to comment on this. While many people do envy Elon Musk, you're talking about the ones who admire him, and there is a big difference as you mention before that.
I don't know why I'm wired the way I am, but I'm just not susceptible to envy--at all. However, I hardly think that most people successful or otherwise are like me. In fact, I'd say a good bit of successful people are so because of their envy.
Envy is the worst of the 7 deadly sins. It's like Charlie Munger says, "It's the only deadly sin you're not going to have any fun with."
I don't know why I'm wired the way I am, but I'm just not susceptible to envy--at all. However, I hardly think that most people successful or otherwise are like me. In fact, I'd say a good bit of successful people are so because of their envy.
Envy is the worst of the 7 deadly sins. It's like Charlie Munger says, "It's the only deadly sin you're not going to have any fun with."
I guess we're using different definitions. By "good envy" I meant wishing you were in the envy-ee's shoes, or at least wanting to live a similar life. I agree that such sentiment can drive people to accomplish more than they otherwise would.
Is there a good form of envy?
> they can end up feeling extremely violated
That is their own personal issue if being proven wrong makes someone feel 'violated'.
That is their own personal issue if being proven wrong makes someone feel 'violated'.
crabs in a bucket.
It wasn't so simple for me to tell myself that and feel better as I wish it were.
For example, one of the people who won't speak to me anymore is a family member who was my biggest hero growing up and the reason why I got into computer programming. I was very angry that he stopped talking to me, and he gave me all sorts of excuses as to why, but his criticisms told the truth of what was really bothering him.
Over time, what I've had to accept is that he has limitations, and he's not the hero I had made him out to be. It's takes time coming to terms with reality that way, especially when you thought so highly of the person to begin with.
For example, one of the people who won't speak to me anymore is a family member who was my biggest hero growing up and the reason why I got into computer programming. I was very angry that he stopped talking to me, and he gave me all sorts of excuses as to why, but his criticisms told the truth of what was really bothering him.
Over time, what I've had to accept is that he has limitations, and he's not the hero I had made him out to be. It's takes time coming to terms with reality that way, especially when you thought so highly of the person to begin with.
all of that negativity is just a projection of their own disappointment in themselves.
real friends will cheer you on. they will be happy for you. if they're struggling, they will seek your advice - "a friend in need is a friend indeed".
family does not imply friendship. i know all of this from experience.
real friends will cheer you on. they will be happy for you. if they're struggling, they will seek your advice - "a friend in need is a friend indeed".
family does not imply friendship. i know all of this from experience.
I think it just shed light on who were really your friends and who were not.
Please, please please write more of this. This is one of the most fascinating things I've read. I've never heard anyone talk about this aspect of success before.
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I'm not op, but will tell two stories that may interest you.
My cousin, mid 30's has FU money. Took him around 8-9 years of hard work (not in technology). He's the guy that buys a 5k rolex (or whatever big brand of watches) for fun. Last 'toy' he got was a 250k euro car for himself to drive maybe 1 month a year (he travels a lot). He is still an amazing person, tries to help people. He will have no problem spending a day with you trying to help fix a problem you may have. He will lend you 5k, no questions asked.
My parents try to badmouth him every time they can, and try to bring his accomplishments down at every party/gathering. From insulting his business partner to just saying he is an exploiter of people/resources/whatnot. I noticed his friends, behind his back do the same, even though he throws parties for them, welcomes them in their house, lets them use his pool even when he isn't there. The car I just mention before, he lets anyone drive it if they ask. But still, the envy is there.
On a smaller scale, my wife's family and friends. My wife decided to quit her job to raise our kid. I still work, but due a good amount of effort, I'm making a good amount of money. There is no need for my wife to work so we both prefer that she stays with our kid. We also live a decent life (near the beach, pool, etc) but not FU money like my cousin. The amount of flak she gets for our choices is just amazing. From her mother telling her she is kinda useless, to her friends making snide comments about getting a 'rich husband', etc. We never show off, we invite everyone to spend some time with us for free in the summer (saving them 1000's in holiday rentals and food), but still, I can feel the jealousy in them... Hard to explain completely.
I never thought this, but last few years what I noticed is in general, people are an envious bunch. A few are really happy for your successes, but most will resent you, because you are doing better than them, or 'showing' to them that some of the decisions they made in the past were the wrong ones, and they can't really come to terms with it, so it is just easier to excuse/criticise you.
My cousin, mid 30's has FU money. Took him around 8-9 years of hard work (not in technology). He's the guy that buys a 5k rolex (or whatever big brand of watches) for fun. Last 'toy' he got was a 250k euro car for himself to drive maybe 1 month a year (he travels a lot). He is still an amazing person, tries to help people. He will have no problem spending a day with you trying to help fix a problem you may have. He will lend you 5k, no questions asked.
My parents try to badmouth him every time they can, and try to bring his accomplishments down at every party/gathering. From insulting his business partner to just saying he is an exploiter of people/resources/whatnot. I noticed his friends, behind his back do the same, even though he throws parties for them, welcomes them in their house, lets them use his pool even when he isn't there. The car I just mention before, he lets anyone drive it if they ask. But still, the envy is there.
On a smaller scale, my wife's family and friends. My wife decided to quit her job to raise our kid. I still work, but due a good amount of effort, I'm making a good amount of money. There is no need for my wife to work so we both prefer that she stays with our kid. We also live a decent life (near the beach, pool, etc) but not FU money like my cousin. The amount of flak she gets for our choices is just amazing. From her mother telling her she is kinda useless, to her friends making snide comments about getting a 'rich husband', etc. We never show off, we invite everyone to spend some time with us for free in the summer (saving them 1000's in holiday rentals and food), but still, I can feel the jealousy in them... Hard to explain completely.
I never thought this, but last few years what I noticed is in general, people are an envious bunch. A few are really happy for your successes, but most will resent you, because you are doing better than them, or 'showing' to them that some of the decisions they made in the past were the wrong ones, and they can't really come to terms with it, so it is just easier to excuse/criticise you.
I know nothing of your family, deduce nothing about them and have nothing to say about them.
However younger people often have little or no idea what happened before them. Perhaps among the aunts and uncles of a family, an older brother or sister sacrificed for years working at a dead-end job in order to put a younger brother through college. Then as things work, the younger brother moves across the country has some success, and the older brother is working in a dead-end job. This was the story in "It's A Wonderful Life" 60 years ago and the story wasn't new then.
Then they have kids - the better-off ones go to a private prep school, the ones of the guy who sacrificed go to public schools. The children don't even know everything about how one brother sacrificed his potentiality and even to some extent his children's potentiality for the other brother. Some kids go to Ivy League schools, have great financial success, and develop a conceited attitude. The sacrificer's kids might not even be able to go to college.
If you look at the Forbes 400 richest list with tech CEO's, we see Bill Gates, who was born with a million dollar trust fund, Larry Page, whose father was a professor, Mark Zuckerberg, who went to Phillips Exeter Academy etc. These are are all white, male people born on third base, or at least second base. You look at Silicon Valley CEO's and you see people whose success was shaped to a large extent before they were born. Why have they succeeded whereas some black kid, whose family moved from Mississippi to Oakland in 1947, did not? Or maybe some Ohlone's whose families "owned" large tracts of lands in the Bay Area before whites came and stole it?
It's a self-serving narrative that people succeed solely due to initiative, hard work, flexibility etc. Are white males from upper middle class families the only people who possess these traits? Of course for the self-serving narrative to be tautological, there will always be murmurs among those people that that is so. Of course once in a while a white woman from an upper class familiy will slip through, or someone from a wealthy Brahmin immigrant family, but that should go without saying.
If one brother sacrifices in a family so that another can have success, the successful person will often have a wife and kids with a vain attitude that they're better than the sacrificer and his family. The repayment for the sacrifice is contempt that they're now better than the sacrificer, and that the poorer family has some innate flaws, are uncouth and so forth. If they feel some resentment toward that, they go on HN and whine how their family resents them driving around in a flashy sports car. The only real excuse the golden child has is he has no knowledge of what went on in the years before he was born.
I know a few (computer-interested) people who went to expensive private prep schools as their families are rich. They really live in a complete bubble. In the documentary "Born Rich", one of the rich kids talks about how much of a bubble his parents live in when he introduced his normal, middle class friend to them and they ask him "where did you summer last year?" This is certainly the case, these people have no idea how the average American worker lives. It's kind of like Mitt Romney, whose father was a CEO and who went to the exclusive Cranbrook prep school blathering on how 47% of Americans are dependents who see themselves as victims. Americans were smart enough to throw him to the curb. These people who are born to the manor, and who live off the wealth they expropriate from the workers who create that wealth, are ever increasingly disconnected from the real world and reality. Why shouldn't they hold themselves in ever high regard? Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette did in the years before they wer
However younger people often have little or no idea what happened before them. Perhaps among the aunts and uncles of a family, an older brother or sister sacrificed for years working at a dead-end job in order to put a younger brother through college. Then as things work, the younger brother moves across the country has some success, and the older brother is working in a dead-end job. This was the story in "It's A Wonderful Life" 60 years ago and the story wasn't new then.
Then they have kids - the better-off ones go to a private prep school, the ones of the guy who sacrificed go to public schools. The children don't even know everything about how one brother sacrificed his potentiality and even to some extent his children's potentiality for the other brother. Some kids go to Ivy League schools, have great financial success, and develop a conceited attitude. The sacrificer's kids might not even be able to go to college.
If you look at the Forbes 400 richest list with tech CEO's, we see Bill Gates, who was born with a million dollar trust fund, Larry Page, whose father was a professor, Mark Zuckerberg, who went to Phillips Exeter Academy etc. These are are all white, male people born on third base, or at least second base. You look at Silicon Valley CEO's and you see people whose success was shaped to a large extent before they were born. Why have they succeeded whereas some black kid, whose family moved from Mississippi to Oakland in 1947, did not? Or maybe some Ohlone's whose families "owned" large tracts of lands in the Bay Area before whites came and stole it?
It's a self-serving narrative that people succeed solely due to initiative, hard work, flexibility etc. Are white males from upper middle class families the only people who possess these traits? Of course for the self-serving narrative to be tautological, there will always be murmurs among those people that that is so. Of course once in a while a white woman from an upper class familiy will slip through, or someone from a wealthy Brahmin immigrant family, but that should go without saying.
If one brother sacrifices in a family so that another can have success, the successful person will often have a wife and kids with a vain attitude that they're better than the sacrificer and his family. The repayment for the sacrifice is contempt that they're now better than the sacrificer, and that the poorer family has some innate flaws, are uncouth and so forth. If they feel some resentment toward that, they go on HN and whine how their family resents them driving around in a flashy sports car. The only real excuse the golden child has is he has no knowledge of what went on in the years before he was born.
I know a few (computer-interested) people who went to expensive private prep schools as their families are rich. They really live in a complete bubble. In the documentary "Born Rich", one of the rich kids talks about how much of a bubble his parents live in when he introduced his normal, middle class friend to them and they ask him "where did you summer last year?" This is certainly the case, these people have no idea how the average American worker lives. It's kind of like Mitt Romney, whose father was a CEO and who went to the exclusive Cranbrook prep school blathering on how 47% of Americans are dependents who see themselves as victims. Americans were smart enough to throw him to the curb. These people who are born to the manor, and who live off the wealth they expropriate from the workers who create that wealth, are ever increasingly disconnected from the real world and reality. Why shouldn't they hold themselves in ever high regard? Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette did in the years before they wer
That is an interesting point, though not really applicable to my family as far as I know (yes, my father had it harder then my cousin or myself, as I think most parents do, but as for siblings, not really) My close and extended family were always middle class. We all went to public school/college (namely since around here it is usually better than private ones). Yes, we had a lot of advantages over other folks, but not really over other people in the family. We were also very close before the 'money starter to pour'. Christmas, new years, any family member birthday, we all gathered, we celebrated, etc. When the money difference became apparent, most of that stopped. The joyful times were pretty much replaced with small talk on the times we get together.
And I agree with most of your ideas, and while I don't know the lives of Gates, Page, etc, and I have no idea how they treated their family/friends, it seems you have an idea (maybe true, I don't know, but it isn't my experience) that as people go up the ladder, they change their attitudes ('develop a conceited attitude' and 'will often have a wife and kids with a vain attitude' or 'now better than the sacrificer'). Again, I'm talking about what I saw here, but it is usually the opposite (maybe cultural differences make it so), but you see a much more humble and giving attitude with people that have reached a good level of success than the ones that haven't. The ones that do reach, usually appreciate all the hard work their parents did to give them the opportunities they have (I do every day), but the ones that didn't usually blame everyone about their problems, but give no thanks/props to the ones that have helped them. Quick example, I've worked for a startup a while ago with one main investor (basically, he was footing the bill for everything until there were revenues). He is one of the richest guys in Portugal, and when I had some personal problems and I mentioned I needed 3-4 months unpaid leave due to that, the only thing he told me: "Go, go take care of things, don't worry about coming until things are good with you", and kept paying me the salary for those 4 months. Didn't ask for a single thing, nothing.
What I'm trying to say is that maybe I have had a different experience with successful people than you, but in this corner of the world, humbleness and a giving attitude are much more prevalent when you go up the ladder than when you don't, and it is hard to find people at the bottom (Even close friends) that don't resent you for that.
And I agree with most of your ideas, and while I don't know the lives of Gates, Page, etc, and I have no idea how they treated their family/friends, it seems you have an idea (maybe true, I don't know, but it isn't my experience) that as people go up the ladder, they change their attitudes ('develop a conceited attitude' and 'will often have a wife and kids with a vain attitude' or 'now better than the sacrificer'). Again, I'm talking about what I saw here, but it is usually the opposite (maybe cultural differences make it so), but you see a much more humble and giving attitude with people that have reached a good level of success than the ones that haven't. The ones that do reach, usually appreciate all the hard work their parents did to give them the opportunities they have (I do every day), but the ones that didn't usually blame everyone about their problems, but give no thanks/props to the ones that have helped them. Quick example, I've worked for a startup a while ago with one main investor (basically, he was footing the bill for everything until there were revenues). He is one of the richest guys in Portugal, and when I had some personal problems and I mentioned I needed 3-4 months unpaid leave due to that, the only thing he told me: "Go, go take care of things, don't worry about coming until things are good with you", and kept paying me the salary for those 4 months. Didn't ask for a single thing, nothing.
What I'm trying to say is that maybe I have had a different experience with successful people than you, but in this corner of the world, humbleness and a giving attitude are much more prevalent when you go up the ladder than when you don't, and it is hard to find people at the bottom (Even close friends) that don't resent you for that.
Same disclaimer as firstOrder. Throwing another opinion into the ring:
My immediate thoughts revolved around:
> 5k rolex
> 250k euro car
> tries to help people
> throws parties for them
> lets them use his pool
This could be seen as someone in a position of power, and someone happy to let other people know that. No judgement on anyone for rewarding themselves materially for their success. It's just not the same as sharing a box of doughnuts with your family and them then being ungrateful behind your back. It's more akin to showing people how many doughnuts you have, letting them touch them, compliment you on your good taste, but not letting anyone eat them. Just because you don't eat them in front of them doesn't mean it's not antagonising. Aware of how weak that analogy just got.
It would take an absolute buddhist monk of a person to not indulge in toy-buying, I can't imagine the self-control it would take, but I think that's the only solution to not end up with the comments. Can you imagine people making negative comments if the FU-money-guy gave 90% of his cash to charitable causes? No reason why he should, but it puts his current situation in contrast.
> We also live a decent life (near the beach, pool, etc)
> we invite everyone to spend some time with us for free in the summer (saving them 1000's in holiday rentals and food)
> We never show off
You're definitely not showing off directly, I'm sure you would never mean to, but I do think by virtue of you raising your living conditions up (way) above those of your peers (I'm assuming) and then thinking you're doing them a favour by sharing it with them, the net effect is the same.
As an alternative idea to saving them 1000s in rentals and food, you could just rent a modestly-priced house together on neutral territory. Especially if you're starting to think people are taking your generosity for granted.
My immediate thoughts revolved around:
> 5k rolex
> 250k euro car
> tries to help people
> throws parties for them
> lets them use his pool
This could be seen as someone in a position of power, and someone happy to let other people know that. No judgement on anyone for rewarding themselves materially for their success. It's just not the same as sharing a box of doughnuts with your family and them then being ungrateful behind your back. It's more akin to showing people how many doughnuts you have, letting them touch them, compliment you on your good taste, but not letting anyone eat them. Just because you don't eat them in front of them doesn't mean it's not antagonising. Aware of how weak that analogy just got.
It would take an absolute buddhist monk of a person to not indulge in toy-buying, I can't imagine the self-control it would take, but I think that's the only solution to not end up with the comments. Can you imagine people making negative comments if the FU-money-guy gave 90% of his cash to charitable causes? No reason why he should, but it puts his current situation in contrast.
> We also live a decent life (near the beach, pool, etc)
> we invite everyone to spend some time with us for free in the summer (saving them 1000's in holiday rentals and food)
> We never show off
You're definitely not showing off directly, I'm sure you would never mean to, but I do think by virtue of you raising your living conditions up (way) above those of your peers (I'm assuming) and then thinking you're doing them a favour by sharing it with them, the net effect is the same.
As an alternative idea to saving them 1000s in rentals and food, you could just rent a modestly-priced house together on neutral territory. Especially if you're starting to think people are taking your generosity for granted.
Maybe that is the difference... I don't see as doing them a favour, I see it as sharing it with them...
If you have a 250k car, you aren't going to buy one for each of your friends, sure, but if any of them calls you asking to take it for a ride or a couple days, he has no problems giving them the keys, I honestly don't know what else you can do to not make them resent you. He lets his friends have parties in his house (gives them the keys) when he is out on business so they have a nice place to party.
As for us, we open the doors of our house to anyone (Family and friends). We live in a very desirable place, where most people pay in the 1000's to vacation there for a week or two, we open our house for them to stay there if they want (they do). This is while I'm working, so we aren't really talking about doing a vacation together. It's AirBnB for free if you want to call it that. We give them keys, they are free to do whatever they want. Eat our food. Basically as if it was their own holiday home. Again, not exactly sure what can be done to not be resented for it. I guess don't invite anyone there, don't talk about the house, don't say nothing so people think we live in the projects?
As for giving money, I know for sure, even as a percentage, both me and my cousin give much more than at least all of our family members (not sure about friends as it is something I don't talk with them about). He financially supports an orphanage (20+ kids) by himself along with other charitable works he has over there. As for us, we give to Watsi, support various children as well, among other things (UNICEF, local charitable organisation that work with poor families with newborns), and one of the reasons we are trying to save up money is to be able to create and support an halfway house in our future. The amazing thing is, I wrote about the charitable aspects on my previous post, and I deleted it since it seemed like bragging. I had no problem with the rest, since that to me, specially when we really do try to share with our close family and friends our successes, it is a matter of joy.
This is what I mean though. I think people with a bit more success don't mind sharing their stuff (in Portugal), but even so, it seems people take it the wrong way, and resent them for it. Do we resent pg and others that share their resources/time/money with ycombinator startups? No! We admire and are happy they do, but it seems as soon as it is closer to home, the resentment does come up.
If you have a 250k car, you aren't going to buy one for each of your friends, sure, but if any of them calls you asking to take it for a ride or a couple days, he has no problems giving them the keys, I honestly don't know what else you can do to not make them resent you. He lets his friends have parties in his house (gives them the keys) when he is out on business so they have a nice place to party.
As for us, we open the doors of our house to anyone (Family and friends). We live in a very desirable place, where most people pay in the 1000's to vacation there for a week or two, we open our house for them to stay there if they want (they do). This is while I'm working, so we aren't really talking about doing a vacation together. It's AirBnB for free if you want to call it that. We give them keys, they are free to do whatever they want. Eat our food. Basically as if it was their own holiday home. Again, not exactly sure what can be done to not be resented for it. I guess don't invite anyone there, don't talk about the house, don't say nothing so people think we live in the projects?
As for giving money, I know for sure, even as a percentage, both me and my cousin give much more than at least all of our family members (not sure about friends as it is something I don't talk with them about). He financially supports an orphanage (20+ kids) by himself along with other charitable works he has over there. As for us, we give to Watsi, support various children as well, among other things (UNICEF, local charitable organisation that work with poor families with newborns), and one of the reasons we are trying to save up money is to be able to create and support an halfway house in our future. The amazing thing is, I wrote about the charitable aspects on my previous post, and I deleted it since it seemed like bragging. I had no problem with the rest, since that to me, specially when we really do try to share with our close family and friends our successes, it is a matter of joy.
This is what I mean though. I think people with a bit more success don't mind sharing their stuff (in Portugal), but even so, it seems people take it the wrong way, and resent them for it. Do we resent pg and others that share their resources/time/money with ycombinator startups? No! We admire and are happy they do, but it seems as soon as it is closer to home, the resentment does come up.
your viewpoint is the correct one. wealthy people who share their material things are not showing off, they're being generous. it's a liability to share your real estate and vehicles.
it takes a real bitter person to resent someone for sharing. yeah sure i can theoretically empathize with that viewpoint but it just feels wrong. it's just pedestrian, petty human hatred.
it takes a real bitter person to resent someone for sharing. yeah sure i can theoretically empathize with that viewpoint but it just feels wrong. it's just pedestrian, petty human hatred.
The implication that this gentlemen became an alcoholic because he quit his corporate job and became an entrepreneur seems pretty far fetched. The guy was probably either already an alcoholic or didn't actually become one. There's a huge difference between drinking to cope with stress and drinking because you are an alcoholic. The latter needs no stress to cause him/her to drink.
I don't think you're correct here.
The stresses of being an entrepreneur take a tremendous toll and given the risk-taking nature of the condition (entrepreneurialism) I absolutely see those stresses lead to dangerous and addictive behaviors in those who follow an entrepreneurial path - whether it's drugs, drink, sex or gambling I have seen all behaviors triggered in individuals.
The absolutism of your position on what does/does not constitute an alcoholic and what triggers the behavior is misplaced.
The stresses of being an entrepreneur take a tremendous toll and given the risk-taking nature of the condition (entrepreneurialism) I absolutely see those stresses lead to dangerous and addictive behaviors in those who follow an entrepreneurial path - whether it's drugs, drink, sex or gambling I have seen all behaviors triggered in individuals.
The absolutism of your position on what does/does not constitute an alcoholic and what triggers the behavior is misplaced.
i think what he's trying to say is that becoming an alcoholic over a stupid decision and the resulting stress is a bit far fetched…
i second that; you might increase the amount you're drinking on a dailly basis for a bit of relief, but that has absolutely nothing to do with being an alcoholic.
i second that; you might increase the amount you're drinking on a dailly basis for a bit of relief, but that has absolutely nothing to do with being an alcoholic.
Yes, I'm trying to say that being an entrepreneur is stressful but it is just so glorified in our circles. This is one of the biggest reasons I wanted to leave the ivory tower of academia because I was so tired of the incestuous little circles of grad students and professors telling each other how much smarter than everyone else they were.
I have 15 years of experience working with drug addicts and alcoholics and the stresses that I hear people trying to get sober have dealt with are often rape, abuse suffered as a child, molestation suffered as a child, loss of a parent when they were very young or just growing up in an alcoholic home. You must be able to admit that these stresses dwarf "being an entrepreneur." In comparison, most people handle starting their own business without it wrecking them but very few people can handle getting raped, or abused as a child without some really serious psychological consequences.
And there are always outliers and exceptions but if that is all this guy is, then it seems pretty disingenuous to use him in an article like this.
I have 15 years of experience working with drug addicts and alcoholics and the stresses that I hear people trying to get sober have dealt with are often rape, abuse suffered as a child, molestation suffered as a child, loss of a parent when they were very young or just growing up in an alcoholic home. You must be able to admit that these stresses dwarf "being an entrepreneur." In comparison, most people handle starting their own business without it wrecking them but very few people can handle getting raped, or abused as a child without some really serious psychological consequences.
And there are always outliers and exceptions but if that is all this guy is, then it seems pretty disingenuous to use him in an article like this.
There is literally some HN troll following my comments across the site and down-voting them all. LOL. Get a life.
Some advice from someone in the trenches.
First, assume that you will never raise a dollar of outside Angel or VC money. Smart, great board, great product, it won't matter. An investor's null hypothesis is that you will fail and it is incredibly difficult to convince them otherwise. If you're the CEO and you don't have Brad Pitt like charisma and you're not a sociopath then it will be very very hard to raise capital.
Second, be prepared for the dreads. The worst part about it is that once these wounds are opened they will be there for life. You're going to wake up at 4:00 and won't be able to sleep because your mind is churning, trying to find some solution to your problem. This usually boils down to insipid growth rates and lack of capital to properly execute.
Third, there will always be 100 things to do and you get to pick 3. What you have will be imperfect. You won't have the metrics you need, and you'll be apologizing for everyhing. It also makes it that much harder to get others to see your vision.
Fourth, the longer it takes you to raise capital the more your team will doubt your competence.
Fifth, you will be rejected every day. VCs, customers, partners, potential employees. This takes a massive psychological toll even as you're get back up to put on that brave face. Unless you are a sociopath it is bound to chip away at your confidence and it may be that split second of doubt that hurts you in your next meeting.