Claire Perry forces porn filter, then her page is blocked due to naughty words(forbes.com)
forbes.com
Claire Perry forces porn filter, then her page is blocked due to naughty words
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/12/25/the-best-story-yet-about-the-uks-online-porn-filters/
6 comments
As a former 12 year old boy, I don't understand why people are so adamant to protect children from sexual content. When you're old enough to know what you're looking at, it is all you want to look at and you will seek it out no matter what. Personally I used to browse between channels on the telly to get super grainy glimpses of porn. When that wasn't available and after our phone got blocked from calling hotlines, I would simply draw naked women for myself to look at.
When you aren't old enough to know what you're looking at, you won't really care about what you see and won't think twice about it. But really if you're older than, say, 6 or 7 you should know what sex is and how it works. Intellectually speaking at least. You won't really care for seeing porn because, well, LEGOs are far more interesting.
So really, I think all this "shield children omg" isn't so much about shielding children as it is about certain adults being obnoxious prudes and using children as an excuse to get their way.
When you aren't old enough to know what you're looking at, you won't really care about what you see and won't think twice about it. But really if you're older than, say, 6 or 7 you should know what sex is and how it works. Intellectually speaking at least. You won't really care for seeing porn because, well, LEGOs are far more interesting.
So really, I think all this "shield children omg" isn't so much about shielding children as it is about certain adults being obnoxious prudes and using children as an excuse to get their way.
As a fellow former 12-year-old boy, I agree that shielding children from legal sexual images doesn't usually serve a purpose other than to deprive them of an education.
We wouldn't restrict kids' access to math materials, then expect them to know calculus as adults. Similarly, kids who are banned from talking about and seeing sexual content can't be expected to understand sexual health.
From an objective standpoint, the interesting question is whether or not exposure to sexual content at early ages is harmful to children. I did some cursory research on this in college and found that:
a) There seems to a big problem with bias in studies concerning sex and adolescents. Even some of the most frequently cited studies use biased language (e.g. abstracts with the phrase "the problem of children viewing sex").
b) A major variable is whether or not parents are there to mediate the kids' exposure to sexual content — not just to restrict their access, but to provide context. To use the math analogy again, it's like the difference between explaining a chapter or dumping worksheets and a textbook on the table.
We wouldn't restrict kids' access to math materials, then expect them to know calculus as adults. Similarly, kids who are banned from talking about and seeing sexual content can't be expected to understand sexual health.
From an objective standpoint, the interesting question is whether or not exposure to sexual content at early ages is harmful to children. I did some cursory research on this in college and found that:
a) There seems to a big problem with bias in studies concerning sex and adolescents. Even some of the most frequently cited studies use biased language (e.g. abstracts with the phrase "the problem of children viewing sex").
b) A major variable is whether or not parents are there to mediate the kids' exposure to sexual content — not just to restrict their access, but to provide context. To use the math analogy again, it's like the difference between explaining a chapter or dumping worksheets and a textbook on the table.
> b) A major variable is whether or not parents are there to mediate the kids' exposure to sexual content
This. A thousand times this. Kids need someone to explain what they're seeing, not someone to flat out restrict it. You wouldn't let your kid watch a grizzly war movie without explaining to them that it's a movie, that these sort of things happened and war is terrible, and that they're reasonably safe from these things happening to them if they're from the western world.
But heaven forbid you explain to your kid what sex is and how it works and that it's awesome. Oh no that's way too awkward. (usually because the adults in question aren't emotionally mature enough themselves)
This. A thousand times this. Kids need someone to explain what they're seeing, not someone to flat out restrict it. You wouldn't let your kid watch a grizzly war movie without explaining to them that it's a movie, that these sort of things happened and war is terrible, and that they're reasonably safe from these things happening to them if they're from the western world.
But heaven forbid you explain to your kid what sex is and how it works and that it's awesome. Oh no that's way too awkward. (usually because the adults in question aren't emotionally mature enough themselves)
> Personally I used to browse between channels on the telly to get super grainy glimpses of porn. When that wasn't available and after our phone got blocked from calling hotlines, I would simply draw naked women for myself to look at.
You can't see a difference between grainy glimpses of softcore porn or hand drawn images, and high definition easily available images of heavy duty porn?
You can't see a difference between grainy glimpses of softcore porn or hand drawn images, and high definition easily available images of heavy duty porn?
Personally, not particularly. Sure they're different, but it's not for the government to decide that they should be blocked, especially if it's legal for a portion of the populace to view them.
If a parent doesn't want a child to view material of that nature (or any nature) it should be up to the parent, not the state, to make sure their child doesn't view it or have access to it. There's commercially available software out there that can make the same blocks, but it's opt-in.
The issue isn't that "kids should be able to see what kids want to see", it's "the state shouldn't dictate people can or can't see in the privacy of their home".
If a parent doesn't want a child to view material of that nature (or any nature) it should be up to the parent, not the state, to make sure their child doesn't view it or have access to it. There's commercially available software out there that can make the same blocks, but it's opt-in.
The issue isn't that "kids should be able to see what kids want to see", it's "the state shouldn't dictate people can or can't see in the privacy of their home".
You realise that the state isn't dictating what people can or can't see - these filters are optional? And that for existing customers they default to opt-in?
It's frustrating that the reason the government forced ISP filtering is because i) no-one uses parental filtering and ii) parental filtering is hopeless.
It's frustrating that the reason the government forced ISP filtering is because i) no-one uses parental filtering and ii) parental filtering is hopeless.
The filters aren't optional.
Setting them to "on" or "off" is currently optional, but the traffic of everyone in the country will soon pass through these filtering machines.
Setting them to "on" or "off" is currently optional, but the traffic of everyone in the country will soon pass through these filtering machines.
They weren't softcore. And the happiest day of my life was when one of my friends got internet and learned how to find porn on Emule. That was amazing.
You can't imagine how happy a group of 13 to 14 year old boys is when they get their hands on a resource like that ... then they go off and play with LEGOs and toy cars and watching MTV for the sexual content. Yes, I used to fap to MTV. And no adult ever thinks of MTV like that. Should we ban it?
You can't imagine how happy a group of 13 to 14 year old boys is when they get their hands on a resource like that ... then they go off and play with LEGOs and toy cars and watching MTV for the sexual content. Yes, I used to fap to MTV. And no adult ever thinks of MTV like that. Should we ban it?
> defending this freedom forces us to grapple with uncomfortable contradictions
No, it doesn't. It just means that if you choose freedom you have to put up with people making choices and doing things that you don't approve of. It's a difficult choice for some people, but it's not a contradiction.
No, it doesn't. It just means that if you choose freedom you have to put up with people making choices and doing things that you don't approve of. It's a difficult choice for some people, but it's not a contradiction.
I think you and I are in agreement. We're just phrasing the same sentiment differently.
Well, I vehemently disagree with this:
> Defending freedom of speech feels - and should feel - very painful.
It doesn't feel painful to me at all. I choose freedom, not just for myself but for my fellow man, and I accept that the price of freedom is putting up with people making choices and doing things that I would not choose to do, that annoy the hell out of me, and that do not make the world a better place. But I am completely at peace with my choice. And I understand how a not-entirely-unreasonable person might make a different choice.
But the only reason that this choice should be "painful" is if you don't really want freedom. You might want some abstracted utopian notion of freedom, a freedom without cost or consequences. But this freedom only exists in your imagination, not the real world. Real freedom is messy and inconvenient and a pain in the ass, and I'll take it over oppression any day of the week with no hesitation and no regrets, and certainly no pain.
> Defending freedom of speech feels - and should feel - very painful.
It doesn't feel painful to me at all. I choose freedom, not just for myself but for my fellow man, and I accept that the price of freedom is putting up with people making choices and doing things that I would not choose to do, that annoy the hell out of me, and that do not make the world a better place. But I am completely at peace with my choice. And I understand how a not-entirely-unreasonable person might make a different choice.
But the only reason that this choice should be "painful" is if you don't really want freedom. You might want some abstracted utopian notion of freedom, a freedom without cost or consequences. But this freedom only exists in your imagination, not the real world. Real freedom is messy and inconvenient and a pain in the ass, and I'll take it over oppression any day of the week with no hesitation and no regrets, and certainly no pain.
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And where does your particular choice of freedom stop, and oppression begin? Will you let me be free to come over and take all your belonging? Or do you simply draw your freedom line in a very, very slightly different place?
It's not about where the line is drawn, it's about the distinction between difficult and painful. Figuring out how to draw the line is sometimes difficult, but it is never painful, at least not for me. And, I submit, if it's painful for you, you're doing it wrong.
The question of whether or not I will "let" you be free to steal my stuff is a straw man. The topic at hand is freedom of speech, not freedom to steal. We can have a separate discussion about that if you want, but it's a different topic.
But even in the case of freedom of speech there are reasonable limits on things like slander and raising false alarms (shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre). "Freedom" does not mean that everyone gets to do whatever the fuck they want whenever they want. That is a childish caricature of freedom. Real freedom involves making the tradeoffs necessary so that everyone gets to make their own choices as much as possible, with "possible" being the operative word. Letting everyone do whatever they want whenever they want is not possible in the real world, and so maximizing freedom, like any optimization problem with real constraints, is hard work. But doing this hard work need not be, should not be, and, if you truly value freedom will not be, painful.
The question of whether or not I will "let" you be free to steal my stuff is a straw man. The topic at hand is freedom of speech, not freedom to steal. We can have a separate discussion about that if you want, but it's a different topic.
But even in the case of freedom of speech there are reasonable limits on things like slander and raising false alarms (shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre). "Freedom" does not mean that everyone gets to do whatever the fuck they want whenever they want. That is a childish caricature of freedom. Real freedom involves making the tradeoffs necessary so that everyone gets to make their own choices as much as possible, with "possible" being the operative word. Letting everyone do whatever they want whenever they want is not possible in the real world, and so maximizing freedom, like any optimization problem with real constraints, is hard work. But doing this hard work need not be, should not be, and, if you truly value freedom will not be, painful.
Have you ever heard the expression "it pains me to say this"?
Sometimes the word painful is used to imply the internal turmoil one has when making difficult decisions. I'm not attempting to be disparaging, merely curious, since I don't know anything about your level of familiarity with English idioms. The phrase "painful decision" when read by myself immediately reads as synonymous to "difficult decision", so your attempting to make a distinction here that honestly confuses me.
Sometimes the word painful is used to imply the internal turmoil one has when making difficult decisions. I'm not attempting to be disparaging, merely curious, since I don't know anything about your level of familiarity with English idioms. The phrase "painful decision" when read by myself immediately reads as synonymous to "difficult decision", so your attempting to make a distinction here that honestly confuses me.
> Have you ever heard the expression "it pains me to say this"?
Yes. It's an idiom. It means, "I feel uncomfortable or ambiguous about saying this, but I'm going to say it nonetheless."
But you didn't use the word "pain" in this idiomatic sense. You said:
"Defending freedom of speech feels - and should feel - very painful."
No. Having a tooth filled without anesthetic feels painful. Deciding to put a pet to sleep feels painful. Going through a divorce feels painful. (I speak from personal experience in all three cases.) But defending freedom of speech does not feel painful. It can be quite frustrating at times, but never painful. Most of the time it make me feel proud.
> I don't want to see Neo-Nazis protesting in a public area of my city
Neither do I. But I absolutely want neo-nazis to be able to protest in a public area of my city. There is not an iota of moral ambiguity here (at least not in my mind) and hence no pain. It does not "pain me to say" this: I will defend the right of neo-nazis to spew their bile every bit as vigorously as I will oppose nearly all of what they say.
Yes. It's an idiom. It means, "I feel uncomfortable or ambiguous about saying this, but I'm going to say it nonetheless."
But you didn't use the word "pain" in this idiomatic sense. You said:
"Defending freedom of speech feels - and should feel - very painful."
No. Having a tooth filled without anesthetic feels painful. Deciding to put a pet to sleep feels painful. Going through a divorce feels painful. (I speak from personal experience in all three cases.) But defending freedom of speech does not feel painful. It can be quite frustrating at times, but never painful. Most of the time it make me feel proud.
> I don't want to see Neo-Nazis protesting in a public area of my city
Neither do I. But I absolutely want neo-nazis to be able to protest in a public area of my city. There is not an iota of moral ambiguity here (at least not in my mind) and hence no pain. It does not "pain me to say" this: I will defend the right of neo-nazis to spew their bile every bit as vigorously as I will oppose nearly all of what they say.
The subject of censorship is always irrational in nature. The described painfulness comes when two equally irrational world views crashes, and each side try to use logic and ration in order to find a common ground.
> I don't want underage children to view pictures of sexual violence.
In the 1990 TV censorship in Sweden, explicit violence was demonized to the point where a cartoon show called Darkwing Duck was banned mid season. People argued that the young audience of the day had picked up a nastier and darker form of violence, and used crime statistics as evidence. The Texas Chain Saw Massacre become a symbol, and the minister of education spoke how it "spread violence" to the population. Even the plain videocassette recorder became a target, as an enabler of this plague of spreading violence.
Sexual content however, now that’s educational. In family prime time, a show called "bullen" was a teenage show which talked about sexuality from a teenage perspective. "Activities" and genitalia was commonly on the screen when a subject to be discussed was introduced. Nudity or sex was never viewed as something bad, but simply a matter of fact.
We would get the same painful experience described in the above comment if one person from the "video violence is bad" camp would meet the "sexual content is bad" camp. Each sides would try to use rational argument, which then would crash with the other sides irrational and emotional concerns.
> I don't want underage children to view pictures of sexual violence.
In the 1990 TV censorship in Sweden, explicit violence was demonized to the point where a cartoon show called Darkwing Duck was banned mid season. People argued that the young audience of the day had picked up a nastier and darker form of violence, and used crime statistics as evidence. The Texas Chain Saw Massacre become a symbol, and the minister of education spoke how it "spread violence" to the population. Even the plain videocassette recorder became a target, as an enabler of this plague of spreading violence.
Sexual content however, now that’s educational. In family prime time, a show called "bullen" was a teenage show which talked about sexuality from a teenage perspective. "Activities" and genitalia was commonly on the screen when a subject to be discussed was introduced. Nudity or sex was never viewed as something bad, but simply a matter of fact.
We would get the same painful experience described in the above comment if one person from the "video violence is bad" camp would meet the "sexual content is bad" camp. Each sides would try to use rational argument, which then would crash with the other sides irrational and emotional concerns.
"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."
- H.L. Mencken
- H.L. Mencken
Either I don't understand the quote, or it's way off.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I'm guessing you're missing some nuance to it, because it's always struck me at least as rather insightful. It sounds like you're looking at it exactly backwards. The adage doesn't apply to the criminal, but to the actions we would otherwise wish to protect.
In regards to the first amendment, the earliest affronts to it in my lifetime were under the guise of pornography. Pornography, even by today's standards, is considered unseemly and unnecessary, so it's easy to get a bunch of folks willing to defend it and have their name associated with porn.
In regards to the second amendment, the battle is against fully automatic firearms. Again, considered unseemly and unnecessary.
Both of those assaults were likely political ruses, and to those ends, as a citizenry, we failed to defend them strongly enough. Now, the door has been opened. The first amendment is not considered sacrosanct, nor is the second. By proxy, nor are any of the others. That we failed at the onset, because we did not defend the scoundrels, we have steepened the slope. Now there's precedent on the books, that rights can be violated, "if there's a good reason". Our government has decided that it has a good reason, and that reason is terrorism, from which it will milk every last ounce of reasonability until it can be replaced or our war on civil rights is won or lost.
In regards to the first amendment, the earliest affronts to it in my lifetime were under the guise of pornography. Pornography, even by today's standards, is considered unseemly and unnecessary, so it's easy to get a bunch of folks willing to defend it and have their name associated with porn.
In regards to the second amendment, the battle is against fully automatic firearms. Again, considered unseemly and unnecessary.
Both of those assaults were likely political ruses, and to those ends, as a citizenry, we failed to defend them strongly enough. Now, the door has been opened. The first amendment is not considered sacrosanct, nor is the second. By proxy, nor are any of the others. That we failed at the onset, because we did not defend the scoundrels, we have steepened the slope. Now there's precedent on the books, that rights can be violated, "if there's a good reason". Our government has decided that it has a good reason, and that reason is terrorism, from which it will milk every last ounce of reasonability until it can be replaced or our war on civil rights is won or lost.
As much as I detest censorship it seems to me that there's a good argument to be made for censoring pornography, or even outlawing it altogether.
I believe pornography is a destructive force in modern society. If modern leaders have (more or less) come to the conclusion that environmental pollution is harmful to earth and to human kind, and have put in place measures (however controversial) to reduce said pollution, maybe it's time for them to recognize that pornography is just as harmful, and that it too should be stopped, or at least reduced. If we need to take measures to protect our bodies, should we not also protect our souls?
I believe pornography is a destructive force in modern society. If modern leaders have (more or less) come to the conclusion that environmental pollution is harmful to earth and to human kind, and have put in place measures (however controversial) to reduce said pollution, maybe it's time for them to recognize that pornography is just as harmful, and that it too should be stopped, or at least reduced. If we need to take measures to protect our bodies, should we not also protect our souls?
I find this line of argument fascinating.
To take a parallel argument, we appear to be living at a time of mass reduction in violence and crime. Yet violent video games are everywhere.
I like to think I'm in favour of evidence-based policy. What evidence do you have for believing that pornography is a destructive force in modern society?
When I look, I tend to find things like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President's_Commission_on_Obsc...
> On balance the report found that obscenity and pornography were not important social problems, that there was no evidence that exposure to such material was harmful to individuals, and that current legal and policy initiatives were more likely to create problems than solve them.
To take a parallel argument, we appear to be living at a time of mass reduction in violence and crime. Yet violent video games are everywhere.
I like to think I'm in favour of evidence-based policy. What evidence do you have for believing that pornography is a destructive force in modern society?
When I look, I tend to find things like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President's_Commission_on_Obsc...
> On balance the report found that obscenity and pornography were not important social problems, that there was no evidence that exposure to such material was harmful to individuals, and that current legal and policy initiatives were more likely to create problems than solve them.
I'm genuinely interested in your logic here. Can you tell me more about how pornography is a destructive force in modern society?
Also, I'm curious as to whether you oppose all pornography or the type of pornography that is most prevalent in, say, the U.S. and the U.K.
Also, I'm curious as to whether you oppose all pornography or the type of pornography that is most prevalent in, say, the U.S. and the U.K.
Other cases of internet hypocrisy:
After pushing for anti-piracy legislation, French President Sarkozy caught pirating music: http://torrentfreak.com/french-presidents-residence-busted-f...
RIAA and Homeland Security Caught Downloading Torrents: http://torrentfreak.com/riaa-and-homeland-security-caught-do...
Fox Entertainment pirating competitors' movies: https://torrentfreak.com/busted-bittorrent-pirates-at-sony-u...
After pushing for anti-piracy legislation, French President Sarkozy caught pirating music: http://torrentfreak.com/french-presidents-residence-busted-f...
RIAA and Homeland Security Caught Downloading Torrents: http://torrentfreak.com/riaa-and-homeland-security-caught-do...
Fox Entertainment pirating competitors' movies: https://torrentfreak.com/busted-bittorrent-pirates-at-sony-u...
She discusses adult topics, and rightly is blocked by the filters she has campaigned for.
I hope that companies do not make any special effort to unblock her, and that they ask her to jump through the same hoops as any other blocked user.
This filter system is just clearly idiotic, and clueless idiot MPs forcing it onto the public need to dogfood the results.
I hope that companies do not make any special effort to unblock her, and that they ask her to jump through the same hoops as any other blocked user.
This filter system is just clearly idiotic, and clueless idiot MPs forcing it onto the public need to dogfood the results.
People should write to her, letting her know that they can't access her official site, because it's blocked.
On postcards.
Everybody.
On postcards.
Everybody.
I certainly think that her constituents and anyone with a relevant interest should write her very simple messages explaining just why her idea is so stupid.
Some of what she says seems reasonable - "Why can't Google help with the problem of images of child sexual abuse" - but they're ignorant of what Google does to help, and what offenders do to find images of child sexual abuse.
It'd be great if she could educate herself about what the problems are, what people are doing to fix those problems, and what things still need to be pushed.
I'm not sure that would work though.
Some of what she says seems reasonable - "Why can't Google help with the problem of images of child sexual abuse" - but they're ignorant of what Google does to help, and what offenders do to find images of child sexual abuse.
It'd be great if she could educate herself about what the problems are, what people are doing to fix those problems, and what things still need to be pushed.
I'm not sure that would work though.
If you do that she will accuse you are being a bully and a troll, and you become her reason for censorship. This "person" is beyond reason and logic.
Make no mistake, she and her ilk are not about saving the children. She wants to make adults have her values and force it on them if she thinks its necessary.
Look, we all know that all that needs to happen is that all UK ISPs put an on off tick box on all their routers in people's homes. Parents could easily decide this for themselves, in private, with out humiliation and interference. But no. It has to be the hard way, it has to be the way that coerces adult to her way of thinking. What does that tell you?
Make no mistake, she and her ilk are not about saving the children. She wants to make adults have her values and force it on them if she thinks its necessary.
Look, we all know that all that needs to happen is that all UK ISPs put an on off tick box on all their routers in people's homes. Parents could easily decide this for themselves, in private, with out humiliation and interference. But no. It has to be the hard way, it has to be the way that coerces adult to her way of thinking. What does that tell you?
> Look, we all know that all that needs to happen is that all UK ISPs put an on off tick box on all their routers in people's homes.
Wait, this is pretty much what has happened. Except it's not on the user's router, but on the user's settings page at the ISP.
Wait, this is pretty much what has happened. Except it's not on the user's router, but on the user's settings page at the ISP.
And that's the important distinction. Because it's not on the router, it's not kept as private information. And it's on by default, so if you want to see any blocked things you have to announce to your ISP, "I want to look at…"
A tiny number of people use proxies or vpns or somesuch. Other than those people:
How are you keeping your internet habits secret from your internet service provider?
> "I want to look at…"
...all the perfectly normal non-porn content that has been blocked by your piss-poor filters. Like that politician's website, for example.
How are you keeping your internet habits secret from your internet service provider?
> "I want to look at…"
...all the perfectly normal non-porn content that has been blocked by your piss-poor filters. Like that politician's website, for example.
That is probably how her supporters communicate normally. The land line phone is probably still regarded as witchcraft. Not to mention that her party has allowed the postal service to self destruct, so that they can sell it off cheap to their friends.
The worry for me as a Brit is that this current government claim to be supporters for personal freedom and responsibility.... Go figure.
The worry for me as a Brit is that this current government claim to be supporters for personal freedom and responsibility.... Go figure.
> The UK has decided that all ISPs must deploy opt-in pornography filters
Wait, wasn't the big problem being that this filter is opt-out? Then why is everyone being so upset about it? Such filters existed for years after all.
Wait, wasn't the big problem being that this filter is opt-out? Then why is everyone being so upset about it? Such filters existed for years after all.
I agree that is the most important distinction. The filter which is just coming into force, on BT (what was British Telecom, and one of the largest ISPs) is what's called an 'unavoidable question', where you have to make a choice when you first go online, to be filtered or not (and if so, at which level) so effectively opt-in or out. I don't really understand why people complain about that on free speech grounds. There has been government pressure to set up decent filters, but these are ultimately just private sector ISP-level parental controls. I would personally expect such features to be standard.
The greatest disease in the world is Political Stupidity.
So much for the use-mention distinction. Filters so far seem unable to maintain it.
I've never heard the use-mention distinction, but its interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use%E2%80%93mention_distinction
However, the distinction doesn't seem to be relevant here. When Claire Perry is discussing "porn" on her site, she'd be using it, unless she's referring to the word itself. Example: http://www.claireperry.org.uk/my-news/previous-stories/clair...
>Given that 83 per cent of people say that the easy availability of internet porn is damaging to children, shouldn't this be rolled out more quickly?
Unless there is a different meaining of use-mention not described on wikipedia.
However, the distinction doesn't seem to be relevant here. When Claire Perry is discussing "porn" on her site, she'd be using it, unless she's referring to the word itself. Example: http://www.claireperry.org.uk/my-news/previous-stories/clair...
>Given that 83 per cent of people say that the easy availability of internet porn is damaging to children, shouldn't this be rolled out more quickly?
Unless there is a different meaining of use-mention not described on wikipedia.
I am using the phrase to refer to the distinction between 'discourse about X' and 'X-discourse', rather than the more limited technical sense given to it in the Wikipedia. The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy is the better reference: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/quotation/. More inclusive uses of the phrase 'use-mention distinction' are not uncommon. See, for instance, this entry on the use-mention distinction and political correctness in the Language Log: http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/005349.h... The Language Log concludes, "In sum, failure to distinguish between uses and mentions poses a danger to freedom of speech and rational enquiry as well as the danger of falsely accusing and condemning innocent people." The sense of the use-mention distinction appearing here refers not only to individually mentioned words, but phrases, sentences, paragraphs and entire bodies of discourse.
> When Claire Perry is discussing "porn" on her site, she'd be using it
Claire Perry is talking about porn, but she is not talking porn. It is unfeasably hard to reliably distinguish between the two; and regular keyword matching will reliably fail to do so.
Claire Perry is talking about porn, but she is not talking porn. It is unfeasably hard to reliably distinguish between the two; and regular keyword matching will reliably fail to do so.
Right. making the use-mention distinction reliably is probably an AI-complete problem.
I make the assumption that censors, fanatics and some persons in positions of authority either have difficulty distinguishing use from mention, or choose not to make the distinction. For example (at the risk of offending certain sensibilities), I took the defensive attitude that the operating assumption in academia was that space-like separated, non-interacting particles at opposite ends of the universe were actively sexually harassing each other, and behaved accordingly.
Why? Because defending this freedom forces us to grapple with uncomfortable contradictions. I don't want to see Neo-Nazis protesting in a public area of my city, but I allow their right to speech because I don't want courts to set a precedent for banning speech about political issues.
I don't want underage children to view pictures of sexual violence, but I have to consider how blanket restrictions on sexual content will make it harder for adolescents to access information about safe sex and for adults to view legal pornography.
I think too many people expect speech-related issues to be simple and easy. They take a hard position because they feel uncomfortable with the ambiguity that comes with balancing our emotions with larger legal precedents.
The blanket bans on sexual content in the U.K. epitomize this: emotional concerns about "shielding" children from sexual content seem to have overshadowed more nuanced conversations about education and adults' freedom to access information.