Ask HN: What is the best drone for hackers?
16 comments
It depends what they want to hack. Since you're saying "drone" I'm assuming you want them to be autonomous in some way, and not just traditional RC.
When I was working on Tacocopter, we used 8-CineStars from Quadrocopter[1]. They were originally designed to fly pro cameras, so they have an incredible payload, great flight characteristics, all carbon fibre, etc. Downside is they're very expensive.
Most of our development was in the software, so we wanted a hardware solution that "just worked" Dealing with DIY motor controllers that can burn out really slows down the process. Aside, if you end up using the MicroKopter platform, I reverse engineered a lot of their serial protocol for our telemetry stack-- check it out on Github[2].
The cool thing to me about MAVs is they essentially become a flying computer. For your friends, I would pick the one that has enough power for decent acrobatics+payloads, but more importantly the easiest software development stack. Stuff from 3DRobotics is a good starting place.
[1] http://www.quadrocopter.com/
[2] https://github.com/grinich/mikrokopter
[3] http://3drobotics.com/
When I was working on Tacocopter, we used 8-CineStars from Quadrocopter[1]. They were originally designed to fly pro cameras, so they have an incredible payload, great flight characteristics, all carbon fibre, etc. Downside is they're very expensive.
Most of our development was in the software, so we wanted a hardware solution that "just worked" Dealing with DIY motor controllers that can burn out really slows down the process. Aside, if you end up using the MicroKopter platform, I reverse engineered a lot of their serial protocol for our telemetry stack-- check it out on Github[2].
The cool thing to me about MAVs is they essentially become a flying computer. For your friends, I would pick the one that has enough power for decent acrobatics+payloads, but more importantly the easiest software development stack. Stuff from 3DRobotics is a good starting place.
[1] http://www.quadrocopter.com/
[2] https://github.com/grinich/mikrokopter
[3] http://3drobotics.com/
We're also assuming he's referring to multirotors when he says "drone." An autonomous model airplane would also be a drone. But it's probably a safe assumption.
Anyway, I would add another big vote for 3DRobotics. They're the organization behind the enormous and successful Ardupilot project, which is an open source community that develops hardware and software for autonomous model vehicles (helicopters, multirotors, airplanes, and cars).
Their ready-to-fly multicopters and planes are packed with functionality and reasonably priced, although they are probably out of the price (and ability) range of someone completely new to the hobby. As other people have said, it's essentially a necessity to grab a toy quadcopter like the Syma X1 for around 40 USD to get a hang of flying them (and realizing how easy it is to crash them) without the chance of a major financial loss.
Anyway, I would add another big vote for 3DRobotics. They're the organization behind the enormous and successful Ardupilot project, which is an open source community that develops hardware and software for autonomous model vehicles (helicopters, multirotors, airplanes, and cars).
Their ready-to-fly multicopters and planes are packed with functionality and reasonably priced, although they are probably out of the price (and ability) range of someone completely new to the hobby. As other people have said, it's essentially a necessity to grab a toy quadcopter like the Syma X1 for around 40 USD to get a hang of flying them (and realizing how easy it is to crash them) without the chance of a major financial loss.
> Since you're saying "drone" I'm assuming you want them to be autonomous in some way, and not just traditional RC.
Would giving the drone a 4G radio with a data channel open to an EC2 instance be considered "autonomous", or "remote-controlled?" It always seemed like the best option to me, since the server issuing guidance could read from whatever internet sources you like (like grabbing a route from Google Maps, or somesuch.)
Would giving the drone a 4G radio with a data channel open to an EC2 instance be considered "autonomous", or "remote-controlled?" It always seemed like the best option to me, since the server issuing guidance could read from whatever internet sources you like (like grabbing a route from Google Maps, or somesuch.)
Thanks for the input!
We definitely want some degree of autonomy with the drone, and most likely a quad/octoroter. A big things for my friends is payload and possibly custom actuators (grabber or claw).
We definitely want some degree of autonomy with the drone, and most likely a quad/octoroter. A big things for my friends is payload and possibly custom actuators (grabber or claw).
Have they ever flown a quadcopter before? If not, I strongly suggest they start with something cheap like the Syma X1 ($35 on Amazon). It's an amazing value, and incredibly fun to fly. Very forgiving, and mildly hackable.
The biggest benefit is that it lets you build your piloting chops without a huge financial risk. An acquaintance of mine is working to get drones into the hands of professionals who aren't interested in becoming drone experts (Realtors, etc), and he uses the Syma X1 to train folks before giving them the keys to larger, more dangerous and expensive drones.
The biggest benefit is that it lets you build your piloting chops without a huge financial risk. An acquaintance of mine is working to get drones into the hands of professionals who aren't interested in becoming drone experts (Realtors, etc), and he uses the Syma X1 to train folks before giving them the keys to larger, more dangerous and expensive drones.
Crazyflie from http://www.bitcraze.se/ is pretty cool. I own one myself, and I like it a lot. This is a tiny fully opensource quad which can be flown indoors. Obviously, because of it's tiny size it doesn't fly for too long and don't lift much.
Ok, a little more input.
Both are android users and prefer open-source hardware and software. The Parrot AR 2.0 looked good at first, but I'm unsure as to the level of community support for the android software.
They are also very skilled at low level programming, so some of the newer Linux based drones are appealing.
Both are android users and prefer open-source hardware and software. The Parrot AR 2.0 looked good at first, but I'm unsure as to the level of community support for the android software.
They are also very skilled at low level programming, so some of the newer Linux based drones are appealing.
I'd recommend the 3DRobotics Iris: https://store.3drobotics.com/products/IRIS
Runs the PX4 autopilot (which I believe is hackable), can be controlled by RC, has good support for camera, gimballs, attachments, etc.
The Parrot firmware is closed and I don't know about other firmware implementations, but the protocol is open so you can write clients to control is - https://github.com/felixge/node-ar-drone being one of the most well known.
Runs the PX4 autopilot (which I believe is hackable), can be controlled by RC, has good support for camera, gimballs, attachments, etc.
The Parrot firmware is closed and I don't know about other firmware implementations, but the protocol is open so you can write clients to control is - https://github.com/felixge/node-ar-drone being one of the most well known.
Really, just build your own? Take a look at multiwii for software and plans, and hobbyking for parts.
The DJI Phantom & DJI Phantom 2 vision are both awesome. The Phantom 1 is probably better if you want to put your own board in the air, as it has more payload space. But out of the box the Phantom 2 is unbelievable with its iPhone FPV & telemetry integration
If you have lots of time on your hands, though, you could build your own with ardupilot: http://ardupilot.com
If you have lots of time on your hands, though, you could build your own with ardupilot: http://ardupilot.com
Just had a DJI Phantom under the christmas tree :-) Glad to read this here
The AR Drone is the cheap, hackable way to do it. It's just a tiny PC running Linux hooked up to four weak motors. You can control it via wifi, or replace the flight software yourself if you are enterprising. Add their new GPS add-on, and you can use the excellent QGroundControl. There are excellent projects putting it to use for a variety of tasks.
Unfortunately it will be limited in its power, unless you do an extensive engine and frame mod as shown here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KESy--N6ags
The 3DRobotics Iris is an exciting new product that represents a more flexible, pro-amateur level tool. They're made to be put to work, not flown like a remote controlled helicopter, so you'll find good support for programmability here.
On the other hand, it's almost $1k fully built out, compared to half that for the Parrot.
Unfortunately it will be limited in its power, unless you do an extensive engine and frame mod as shown here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KESy--N6ags
The 3DRobotics Iris is an exciting new product that represents a more flexible, pro-amateur level tool. They're made to be put to work, not flown like a remote controlled helicopter, so you'll find good support for programmability here.
On the other hand, it's almost $1k fully built out, compared to half that for the Parrot.
To take a car analogy, if motorsport was the aim, goal and objective but you hadn't even learned to drive yet, then, it might be advisable to get a regular car, maybe one that could be pimped to a certain extent, rather than fork out the £££ for an F1 car or a WRC rally car.
The AR Drone is pretty deluxe for a starting point, plus it actually works out the box and is affordable. Whilst having hours of fun with it one could work out what the 'ideal' is actually going to be.
The AR Drone is pretty deluxe for a starting point, plus it actually works out the box and is affordable. Whilst having hours of fun with it one could work out what the 'ideal' is actually going to be.
The DIY.
Or build an AeroQuad: http://aeroquad.com/content.php?s=9af9c997f8aed9a3ad958e32bf...
Or build an AeroQuad: http://aeroquad.com/content.php?s=9af9c997f8aed9a3ad958e32bf...
It really depends on the application. If you're talking about flight, and autonomous-flight at that, keep in mind that airspace is highly regulated. (In the US) The FAA requires RC pilots to be licensed (inexpensive and no test, but still necessary) and RC flight must always be in line-of-sight -- usually in very specific, designated areas. It's quite easy enough to build an autonomous bird, with programmable way-points and such, which breaks all sorts of laws. Start with the AMA: http://www.modelaircraft.org/
There's a lot of specific distinctions between piloted-flight versus autonomous ('drone') as well as size restrictions and such. First-person view (FPV) requires a second pilot using grounded line-of-sight, as well (http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/550.pdf).
I'm by no means trying to discourage you, just know if something might be a federal offense!
There's a lot of specific distinctions between piloted-flight versus autonomous ('drone') as well as size restrictions and such. First-person view (FPV) requires a second pilot using grounded line-of-sight, as well (http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/550.pdf).
I'm by no means trying to discourage you, just know if something might be a federal offense!
Downvote with no comment? Thanks for that....
I'd say, for a hardware hacker, one they build themselves. I'm building one right now, have ordered all the parts for relatively cheap and it will be a lot more powerful than a Parrot Drone and gives me more freedom with what I want it to do.
Would you mind giving a quick run-down of everything you ordered? I've been trying to price out a DIY quadcopter on HobbyKing.com but I'm always worried I'm going to miss a piece that ends up costing a ton of money.
If you could include prices that would be amazing, but I can always look it up if you can just post the parts!
If you could include prices that would be amazing, but I can always look it up if you can just post the parts!
I bought three small ones from http://www.helipal.com recently. They come pre-tested so when you crash them, you know you're the one who threw them all out of alignment.
A proper quadcopter is different than those styrofoam quadrotor things you see. A copter will take longer to learn how to not crash, but you have more precise control.
A proper quadcopter is different than those styrofoam quadrotor things you see. A copter will take longer to learn how to not crash, but you have more precise control.
I just built a tri-copter. Here's what I used:
Frame: http://shop.flitetest.com/multirotors/bat-bone-tri-370-kit/ but you can easily build a frame yourself from either wood or aluminum towel holder bars from home depot.
Flight controller: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idp... I have this one, the 2.0, but there's a 2.1 out now too.
Motors: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idp...
ESCs: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__25363__Turnigy_Mu...
Tail servo (don't needs this for a quad): http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idp...
Batteries: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__9394__Turnigy_220...
Radio: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idp...
That's all the major parts. You'll need a few odds and ends like propellers, servo extensions, connectors for the battery and ESCs, etc. Hobbyking sells a power distribution board you can use if you don't want to make your own wiring harness.
Frame: http://shop.flitetest.com/multirotors/bat-bone-tri-370-kit/ but you can easily build a frame yourself from either wood or aluminum towel holder bars from home depot.
Flight controller: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idp... I have this one, the 2.0, but there's a 2.1 out now too.
Motors: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idp...
ESCs: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__25363__Turnigy_Mu...
Tail servo (don't needs this for a quad): http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idp...
Batteries: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__9394__Turnigy_220...
Radio: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idp...
That's all the major parts. You'll need a few odds and ends like propellers, servo extensions, connectors for the battery and ESCs, etc. Hobbyking sells a power distribution board you can use if you don't want to make your own wiring harness.
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The best drone for hackers is the one they build themselves. There is absolutely no point in buying a factory drone - you can make them yourselves easily enough, and without much fuss - in fact RC drones is one of the longest-running subjects that has attracted hackers over the years. If you want innovation, learning, experimentation - check out the "DIY Foamies" section on http://rcgroups.com/ forums .. there are literally thousands of drone designs in there that the budding hacker can enjoy, learn from, and exploit for their needs.
So please, stay away from the factory drones, folks.
So please, stay away from the factory drones, folks.
Arducoptor & Ardupilot are the way to go!
Forget amazon, that's not a place for hackers...
But beware of the hidden costs in Radio-Controlled flight - it's never a cheap date...
Forget amazon, that's not a place for hackers...
But beware of the hidden costs in Radio-Controlled flight - it's never a cheap date...
This is a hard question to answer without knowing what types of problems your hacker friends like to solve. For example, quadcopters tend to cater to certain types of problems (mapping, precise control, etc), while fixed-wing aircraft tend to cater to a different group (autopilots, longer-distance flights, etc).
Can you give some pointers to projects workin on fixed-wing aircraft? Autopilot would be what I'm interested in, but most everything I see are quadcopters, and then with these remote-control gadgets that I don't care about.
Probably the nicest page I've seen on the subject is DIY Drones ( http://diydrones.com ), which covers both fixed-wing and copter-based UAV engineering. Their fixed-wing autopilot is called ArduPlane ( http://plane.ardupilot.com ).
This would definitely be a quadcopter instead of a fixed wing.
how about helicopters?
try to build your own and i mean your own even your own flight controller from scratch / use Arduino for flight control / use ecalc.ch site for your combination / hobbyking may have everything you want but they suck at shipment / try something different if you want it to be named hacker's drone ;)
They would be tempted, but then I can't have a drone land in their yard with a bow attached :)
What do you think of the 3DRobotics Iris?
Stop calling them "Drones".
Thanks all!