NSA Spying Risks $35 Billion in U.S. Technology Sales(bloomberg.com)
bloomberg.com
NSA Spying Risks $35 Billion in U.S. Technology Sales
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-26/nsa-spying-risks-35-billion-in-u-s-technology-sales.html
16 comments
I suspect they know. They just happen to be the types of people who would "burn down the kingdom so long as they could be king of the ashes."
There is no 'they' in this picture, nor a thing that can be personified (i.e. an asshole). It's just a currently broken set of institutions. There's no reason to be angry at institutions, only persons. Direct that anger at particular elected officials, the president, congressmen, and at particular people that act as enablers: people in the media, press or private persons in some (corporate) power that are advocating surveillance.
> It's just a currently broken set of institutions.
no it's not , these institutions work as intended by those who put them in place. And frankly these institutions are not about "terrorism", they are here for industrial espionnage.
no it's not , these institutions work as intended by those who put them in place. And frankly these institutions are not about "terrorism", they are here for industrial espionnage.
Have any leaked documents mentioned industrial espionage?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/08/us-usa-security-sn...
Either Petrobras (Brasilian state owned oil company) is a terrorist training camp, or they are doing industrial espionage there.
And I don't think that this 50000 networks ( http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2013/11/23/nsa-infected-50000-compu... ) have backdoors installed by the NSA for the terrorists neither.
Either Petrobras (Brasilian state owned oil company) is a terrorist training camp, or they are doing industrial espionage there.
And I don't think that this 50000 networks ( http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2013/11/23/nsa-infected-50000-compu... ) have backdoors installed by the NSA for the terrorists neither.
No single water drop should be blamed for the flood? Every person that had in its power to stop or report on this and didn't should be blamed. Every single person that authorised each step forward this program and state of things should be blamed too. And, of course, every single person that used this for his or his company profit should be in jail.
If nothing of this happens, then the entire system and all involved are guilty.
If nothing of this happens, then the entire system and all involved are guilty.
It's just a currently broken set of institutions. There's no reason to be angry at institutions, only persons. Direct that anger at particular elected officials
It's funny that you should mention that. I'd argue that institutions are responsible for the elected officials as well. One might even argue that the entire system is so broken that it all needs to be torn down and rebuilt.
It's funny that you should mention that. I'd argue that institutions are responsible for the elected officials as well. One might even argue that the entire system is so broken that it all needs to be torn down and rebuilt.
No, we just need to replace them with autonomous AIs :-)
Comments in here currently are on par with YouTube. It's disgusting - we get it, you don't like NSA's spying programs. Breathless pontification on that point is utterly worthless. Stop.
Source report for the article: http://www2.itif.org/2013-cloud-computing-costs.pdf
I always laugh at graphs who move steadily upwards from the beginning of recording to the present, but then do insane things like dip dramatically and then rise prolifically in the future, like figure 1 in the report.
After looking at the endnotes for this report, it's clear that the writer has actually bought the meaningless blustering these companies and governments are doing. Threats, promises, and warnings aside, there's a distinct lack of actual action on the part of governments and companies towards this idea of harming US companies for what their government did.
Source report for the article: http://www2.itif.org/2013-cloud-computing-costs.pdf
I always laugh at graphs who move steadily upwards from the beginning of recording to the present, but then do insane things like dip dramatically and then rise prolifically in the future, like figure 1 in the report.
After looking at the endnotes for this report, it's clear that the writer has actually bought the meaningless blustering these companies and governments are doing. Threats, promises, and warnings aside, there's a distinct lack of actual action on the part of governments and companies towards this idea of harming US companies for what their government did.
This is all nice and well, but here on the ground, the NSA scandal has really bad consequences for tech companies.
Do you know what it is like to live in a jurisdiction where you are actually liable for what happens to the data of your users? Especially if it is data on teachers and pupils, which are (due to the fact that they are children) especially protected, as is the case with education software startups?
I can't use the Amazon cloud, can't use App engine, Cloudflare or anything that is connected to the US or companies with a US mother firm.
The whole situation is one infuriating clusterfuck and I find it really insulting when people claim that there are no real consequences to the recent scandal.
Do you know what it is like to live in a jurisdiction where you are actually liable for what happens to the data of your users? Especially if it is data on teachers and pupils, which are (due to the fact that they are children) especially protected, as is the case with education software startups?
I can't use the Amazon cloud, can't use App engine, Cloudflare or anything that is connected to the US or companies with a US mother firm.
The whole situation is one infuriating clusterfuck and I find it really insulting when people claim that there are no real consequences to the recent scandal.
> Do you know what it is like to live in a jurisdiction where you are actually liable for what happens to the data of your users?
No offense but it's this same reason that U.S. companies would be pilloried if they hosted all their users' private data on a cloud service hosted in Russia or China.
Even without an entity like the NSA an organization in the EU could not simply assume that any other nation obeys their data privacy rules without a strong bilateral agreement dictating just that.
That's not a consequence of the "recent scandal" as even now the scandal hasn't revealed anything with regard to non-U.S. networks that wasn't already known: the NSA intercepts communications abroad when they can, just as they've done since 1949.
The NSA stories have certainly brought it to prominence but anyone hosting their user's private data on Amazon's US-EAST before this, without a guarantee that the U.S. would obey European data privacy laws at the Virginia data center, was guilty of negligence at best, since no such agreement has ever been made to my knowledge.
What the NSA stories have helped to illustrate is that there is an essential disconnect between applying nation-level laws to global-level networks that needs to be rectified one way or another.
No offense but it's this same reason that U.S. companies would be pilloried if they hosted all their users' private data on a cloud service hosted in Russia or China.
Even without an entity like the NSA an organization in the EU could not simply assume that any other nation obeys their data privacy rules without a strong bilateral agreement dictating just that.
That's not a consequence of the "recent scandal" as even now the scandal hasn't revealed anything with regard to non-U.S. networks that wasn't already known: the NSA intercepts communications abroad when they can, just as they've done since 1949.
The NSA stories have certainly brought it to prominence but anyone hosting their user's private data on Amazon's US-EAST before this, without a guarantee that the U.S. would obey European data privacy laws at the Virginia data center, was guilty of negligence at best, since no such agreement has ever been made to my knowledge.
What the NSA stories have helped to illustrate is that there is an essential disconnect between applying nation-level laws to global-level networks that needs to be rectified one way or another.
Actually, what you can't do is expose that data to the Internet, period, if you're attempting to be consistent with your, "NSA spying is causing me problems" viewpoint, because the NSA is monitoring network traffic around the globe, and decrypting what it can and storing what it can't.
So, if you're going to be internally consistent, you're going to have to delete all digital copies of all "sensitive" data, lest you yourself get hacked.
Or you could accept that with all operations there exists risk, and attempt to mitigate that risk using methods which are consistent between one another.
Not using US products gets you nowhere, in other words.
So, if you're going to be internally consistent, you're going to have to delete all digital copies of all "sensitive" data, lest you yourself get hacked.
Or you could accept that with all operations there exists risk, and attempt to mitigate that risk using methods which are consistent between one another.
Not using US products gets you nowhere, in other words.
Exactly. There is zero reason to suspect non-US clouds are any more secure.
> I can't use the Amazon cloud, can't use App engine, Cloudflare or anything that is connected to the US or companies with a US mother firm.
But is that because of NSA spying, or because of the lack of privacy laws in the US? Because I know people who've not sent any user data to the US for years, certainly before they found out about NSA spying.
But is that because of NSA spying, or because of the lack of privacy laws in the US? Because I know people who've not sent any user data to the US for years, certainly before they found out about NSA spying.
> Do you know what it is like to live in a jurisdiction where you are actually liable for what happens to the data of your users? Especially if it is data on teachers and pupils, which are (due to the fact that they are children) especially protected, as is the case with education software startups?
This is why they wanted to pass CISPA.
This is why they wanted to pass CISPA.
>distinct lack of actual action on the part of governments and companies towards this idea of harming US companies
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/14/us-cisco-results-i...
Cisco's revenue warning comes after former U.S. spy agency contractor Edward Snowden exposed widespread surveillance by the National Security Agency through internet data, much of which is transmitted via Cisco's equipment.
Cisco's chief financial officer, Frank Calderoni, told analysts the company had been affected by a political backlash in China, but said it was difficult to quantify how much of its revenue shortfall was a result of this.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/14/us-cisco-results-i...
Cisco's revenue warning comes after former U.S. spy agency contractor Edward Snowden exposed widespread surveillance by the National Security Agency through internet data, much of which is transmitted via Cisco's equipment.
Cisco's chief financial officer, Frank Calderoni, told analysts the company had been affected by a political backlash in China, but said it was difficult to quantify how much of its revenue shortfall was a result of this.
YouTube comments are great. Everyone always bags on them, but the complainers have no sense of humor.
It's going to be much worse than that graph shows: http://blogs.forrester.com/james_staten/13-08-14-the_cost_of...
I'm curious what you think comments are for, if not for people to express their opinions. Or is it only the comments of people who disagree with you that you'd like to stop?
I apologize if what I said was unclear (ironically), but expressing one's opinion and expressing one's opinion well are two entirely different topics, and my complaint was of the latter, not the former.
I don't think that's enough. It needs to be 10x more than that before the government will start taking this issue seriously, and actually rein on NSA's power. And you can tell by the actions of their insider, Dianne Feinstein, that they have no intention of doing that right now.
When she will support bills like Rush Holt's Surveillance State Repeal Act that repeals the Patriot Act and the FISA Amendments Act, then you'll know the government is serious about reining in on their power and actually care about the many billions the US corporations stand to lose from not doing that.
Until then, pay no attention to their NSA "reforms" - or better yet, do pay attention, because they are likely to add in a lot of backdoors to give NSA more power by explicitly legalizing many of the things they have been doing, like Feinstein's "FISA Improvements Act", and call your representatives to reject it.
When she will support bills like Rush Holt's Surveillance State Repeal Act that repeals the Patriot Act and the FISA Amendments Act, then you'll know the government is serious about reining in on their power and actually care about the many billions the US corporations stand to lose from not doing that.
Until then, pay no attention to their NSA "reforms" - or better yet, do pay attention, because they are likely to add in a lot of backdoors to give NSA more power by explicitly legalizing many of the things they have been doing, like Feinstein's "FISA Improvements Act", and call your representatives to reject it.
It's crazy that people don't connect the NSA to their job. Their job disappearing, like Detroit style.
Stage 1: denial.
Stage 1: denial.
Actually, for all you non-American persons why have been asking what can you do about the NSA...
The way to do it is through the pocketbook.
The way to do it is through the pocketbook.
Well, don't worry , the NSA is a 50 billion industry itself. So you could always work for the government as Obama wants.
"Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini
- Benito Mussolini
Probably not him.
http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2013/02/07/fake-quote-f...
Probably not him.
http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2013/02/07/fake-quote-f...
That's exactly what Benito Mussolini (and Adolf Hilter) did. + extra free workers in death camps for the german industry.
I'm gently surprised that people aren't looking at all the other terrible privacy policies and laws in the US.
NSA spying is terrible, and must stop, but many companies slurp way too much data, and store it sloppily. Look at the number of password database leaks, and that's stuff that they want to keep secret.
The lack of sensible privacy regulation has already caused many companies to not send data to the US.
NSA spying is terrible, and must stop, but many companies slurp way too much data, and store it sloppily. Look at the number of password database leaks, and that's stuff that they want to keep secret.
The lack of sensible privacy regulation has already caused many companies to not send data to the US.
There haven’t been any real political consequences to supporting surveillance. Who’s lost an election over it? Until that happens, expect this to continue. It’s like how now one gets fired for buying IBM. The politicians are worried that if they did support rollback, and then some event happened, they’d get primaried out of office.
"International anger over the National Security Agency’s Internet
surveillance is...and setting back U.S. efforts to promote Internet
freedom."
'Salgado said. “This could have severe unintended consequences, such
as a reduction in data security, increased cost, decreased
competitiveness, and harm to consumers.”"
Overall very strange journalism here.
Between patent trolls and the NSA, if I'm going to start the software business I've always wanted to start anytime soon, I'll find anywhere else to do it other than here in the 'good ole' USA.
> International anger over the National Security Agency’s Internet surveillance is hurting global sales by American technology companies and setting back U.S. efforts to promote Internet freedom.
Of course yea... because now we all know that the US (government)actively promotes 'freedom'. God the MSM really sucks these days.
Of course yea... because now we all know that the US (government)actively promotes 'freedom'. God the MSM really sucks these days.
Let's keep the loss above the NSA's budget so they can rationalize their stupidity with the only thing they understand: $
Does Washington want a strong tech industry? Our own Senator Feinstein regularly votes against the interests of Silicon Valley. I see a Washington with lots of enthusiasm for Military and Oil/Gas, but not much for Technology.
> Our own Senator Feinstein regularly votes against the interests of Silicon Valley
So when are you (plural you) going to put your money and your time where your mouths are and find someone to challenge her, including in the primaries?
So when are you (plural you) going to put your money and your time where your mouths are and find someone to challenge her, including in the primaries?
Why should we have to outspend established industries just to have our voices heard? That sounds like a rigged game and a loosing battle to me. If any energy is to be spend addressing the issue it should be to route around these parasites, not greasing their wheels for adding no value to society.
> Why should we have to outspend established industries just to have our voices heard?
The world is not perfect or fair, sorry.
But you do have a chance to work to fix things.
The world is not perfect or fair, sorry.
But you do have a chance to work to fix things.
Also, if the Mafia threatens to burn down your business, the proper response is not to call the police or pay the protection money, but to join the Mafia and reform the system from within. Right?
Seriously -- it's too late for that. These so-called "security" agencies and their sponsors in Congress have already ignored dozens of laws going all the way back to 1776. What's another law going to accomplish? Is yet another Church Committee the answer? If so, how do you anticipate the outcome will be different this time?
Seriously -- it's too late for that. These so-called "security" agencies and their sponsors in Congress have already ignored dozens of laws going all the way back to 1776. What's another law going to accomplish? Is yet another Church Committee the answer? If so, how do you anticipate the outcome will be different this time?
Oh, well if you put it that way, I guess bitching on Hacker News is definitely the best option.
I guess answering my question is too much trouble, huh. For the record, in case you missed it, it was, "How do you expect the (legislative) outcome to be different this time?"
Edit: here's another question, seeing as you're in Italy. What do you think will happen when the power of the NSA ends up in the hands of a politician like Berlusconi?
Edit: here's another question, seeing as you're in Italy. What do you think will happen when the power of the NSA ends up in the hands of a politician like Berlusconi?
Things can and do get better: when the United States' constitution was written, slaves were considered 3/5ths of a human being. Now a black man is president.
That has taken some 200 plus years, a civil war, and many other deaths, and is still not really a 'solved problem'.
So sometimes these things take a long time and a whole lot of effort. Whining about how something is impossible is just a waste of everyone's time, and potentially discouraging to those with the means to get out there and work for change. Mostly it's just a weak excuse to sit on one's ass and do nothing.
Speaking of Italy, this cynical "oh, nothing ever changes, all the politicians are the same, blah blah blah" attitude is one of the worst problems, and one of the best ways to keep people from standing up and doing something. That kind of attitude is far more common here than it is in the US, and the results are pretty evident.
That has taken some 200 plus years, a civil war, and many other deaths, and is still not really a 'solved problem'.
So sometimes these things take a long time and a whole lot of effort. Whining about how something is impossible is just a waste of everyone's time, and potentially discouraging to those with the means to get out there and work for change. Mostly it's just a weak excuse to sit on one's ass and do nothing.
Speaking of Italy, this cynical "oh, nothing ever changes, all the politicians are the same, blah blah blah" attitude is one of the worst problems, and one of the best ways to keep people from standing up and doing something. That kind of attitude is far more common here than it is in the US, and the results are pretty evident.
Speaking of Italy, this cynical "oh, nothing ever changes, all the politicians are the same, blah blah blah" attitude is one of the worst problems,
No one but the native Italians are truly qualified to render such an opinion. They can cite 2000+ years of history as evidence. You wouldn't want the NSA to work for Caligula, the Borgias, Mussolini, or Berlusconi, but somehow, people like you think the next guy or gal in line for the throne will be different.
No one but the native Italians are truly qualified to render such an opinion. They can cite 2000+ years of history as evidence. You wouldn't want the NSA to work for Caligula, the Borgias, Mussolini, or Berlusconi, but somehow, people like you think the next guy or gal in line for the throne will be different.
When I was talking about 'the problem', what on earth gave you the idea that I was talking about anything other than severely limiting the powers of the NSA?
My whole point is that this is something people will need to work out - they won't let go quietly.
My whole point is that this is something people will need to work out - they won't let go quietly.
I emigrated. You can too.
Military and Oil/Gas combined has a bigger tech industry than Silicon Valley.
it's also one of the Old Big Money sectors. along with Banking/WallStreet. other tech, speaking in obviously broad strokes, is newer/younger money.
True, I was just pointing out that not supporting silicon valley is not a sign of being against technology, so much as being suspicious of one area of it. Silicon valley aligns itself with a lot more than just technology and I suspect it is other factors than the engineering that the politicians are lukewarm to. From their point of view, a bunch of hippies have just managed to blow the doors off the restrictions on access to presses and other forms of mass influence. I suspect that that is the bit that annoys them.
Those industries have lobbied a long time, and have been close with people who've built seniority now. It'll take a while for Tech to do that.
NSA is hurting:
US citizens
US economy
US confidence
US foreign relations
US privacy
US law
US
This isn't their government, it's ours. Take it back please.
1 person can make a difference. We are in this together.
This isn't their government, it's ours. Take it back please.
1 person can make a difference. We are in this together.
Was that too blunt and direct? Somehow I don't think it's blunt and direct enough for the decision-makers to figure out this obvious consequence of their actions, however unintended and however well-intentioned they were when they decided to read so many people's emails as if they were entitled.