The Zed Shaw Phenomenon(blog.davewilkinsonii.com)
blog.davewilkinsonii.com
The Zed Shaw Phenomenon
http://blog.davewilkinsonii.com/posts/the-zed-shaw-phenomenon
15 comments
Yes, posting one big ad hominem attack because you got your ego bruised will really help make the tech community a better place.
Nothing more constructive than a nice dose of character assassination.
The author is basically doing exactly the same as Zed Shaw, only using more words and less four letter ones.
Edit: Correction, this is post is more insidious than simply calling someone a fucking moron on Twitter. Both are wrong, but only one of them can be excused as a very human impulsive reaction.
Nothing more constructive than a nice dose of character assassination.
The author is basically doing exactly the same as Zed Shaw, only using more words and less four letter ones.
Edit: Correction, this is post is more insidious than simply calling someone a fucking moron on Twitter. Both are wrong, but only one of them can be excused as a very human impulsive reaction.
@zedshaw (16329 followers) "^#%$^#@ you $^#@#@$ moron $^#@#@$"
@wilkieii (552 followers) "Zed Shaw's response was not a very friendly one..."
@wilkieii (552 followers) "Zed Shaw's response was not a very friendly one..."
He has a planet sized ego made of tissue paper. Not much point in engaging to be honest because you just get to join the end of a line of victims. Live and let live?
This guy left a passive-aggressive, disrespectful comment and is now trying to act innocent when he got an angry response? He should just admit his mistake instead of trying to turn this into a broader issue like bullying in the tech community.
Is this so uncommon though? Ever since I was in school I've felt like the rare nerd who actually liked other people and wasn't a colossally negative dilweed. They pervade all aspects of our industry and culture, from grumpy neckbeards to mouthy wankers, and I'm honestly not seeing many signs of improvement. Everyone wants to be seen as cool, especially if we've spent most of our lives being dorks. Unfortunately this leads to everyone trying to be edgy and witty all the time and missing out on the human element; though a lack of empathy and social skills is hardly exclusive from the tech world.
We need more strong personalities without the mouthy egos behind them, and without the over-self-promotion I find off-putting in the design-side of the industry. Is it possible to be a popular, opinionated programmer without being a dick? I hope so, as whether we want them to or not; people are often on the lookout for a role-model.
And hell, I got insulted by ZS just for saying I liked a keyboard player. I think his opinion on the matter is wrong, but I'm not popular enough on Twitter to win that argument. Not that I like partaking in arguments on Twitter anyway.
We need more strong personalities without the mouthy egos behind them, and without the over-self-promotion I find off-putting in the design-side of the industry. Is it possible to be a popular, opinionated programmer without being a dick? I hope so, as whether we want them to or not; people are often on the lookout for a role-model.
And hell, I got insulted by ZS just for saying I liked a keyboard player. I think his opinion on the matter is wrong, but I'm not popular enough on Twitter to win that argument. Not that I like partaking in arguments on Twitter anyway.
To me this article was more about how Twitter can be an unfriendly place.
If you think about it, on Twitter the barrier between people is pixel-thin. It's pretty easy to get into an argument with someone with a single tweet in mere seconds. Within minutes you could easily find yourself being on the receiving end of the latest internet crusade.
While I'm sure it would be nice if everyone was forced to act nice, the reality is Twitter is so immediate and in-your-face that when you receive a tweet its almost as if someone has come up to you and said it in your face. And to some people that hits deep. Deep enough to start the drama unfolding.
If you think about it, on Twitter the barrier between people is pixel-thin. It's pretty easy to get into an argument with someone with a single tweet in mere seconds. Within minutes you could easily find yourself being on the receiving end of the latest internet crusade.
While I'm sure it would be nice if everyone was forced to act nice, the reality is Twitter is so immediate and in-your-face that when you receive a tweet its almost as if someone has come up to you and said it in your face. And to some people that hits deep. Deep enough to start the drama unfolding.
Publicly shaming someone because they were mean to you — this is a lot worse than bullying. Zed Shaw is famous because he's good; not because people love his personality. That being said, I enjoy his personality far more than the author's.
> To conclude, we have to come together and accept the truth: the tech community is an extremely unfriendly place.
Zed seems a lot nicer in the videos of his presentations I've seen. Also, he once posted that his online persona is a parody of abrasive tech guru. I was skeptical then. I'm skeptical now. I have yet to quite make up my mind on this. In any case, Zed, by his own admission, writes like he does in order to gain attention. Whether or not you think it's obnoxious and whether you think it's a net loss or gain in this case is up to you.
I suspect Linus only does what he does because he wants to gain a small set of people's attention.
In any case, this strategy works. I think we need to ask ourselves why. I think a part of the answer could be that our the programming field is immature -- both emotionally and in terms of how our culture supports the maintenance of our body of knowledge.
Snide half-truths that tech people say about technology keep propagating, even when they are as useless as the typical ethnic stereotype. It's like we lived in a world where half of all doctors believed in ethnic stereotypes and wrote about them as if they were true in technical literature and openly made professional decisions based on them.
I'll close with a quote: "I'm an old-fashioned guy, & I believe in history. The disinterest & disdain for history is what makes computing not-quite-a-field." --Alan Kay
Zed seems a lot nicer in the videos of his presentations I've seen. Also, he once posted that his online persona is a parody of abrasive tech guru. I was skeptical then. I'm skeptical now. I have yet to quite make up my mind on this. In any case, Zed, by his own admission, writes like he does in order to gain attention. Whether or not you think it's obnoxious and whether you think it's a net loss or gain in this case is up to you.
I suspect Linus only does what he does because he wants to gain a small set of people's attention.
In any case, this strategy works. I think we need to ask ourselves why. I think a part of the answer could be that our the programming field is immature -- both emotionally and in terms of how our culture supports the maintenance of our body of knowledge.
Snide half-truths that tech people say about technology keep propagating, even when they are as useless as the typical ethnic stereotype. It's like we lived in a world where half of all doctors believed in ethnic stereotypes and wrote about them as if they were true in technical literature and openly made professional decisions based on them.
I'll close with a quote: "I'm an old-fashioned guy, & I believe in history. The disinterest & disdain for history is what makes computing not-quite-a-field." --Alan Kay
The good thing with online bullies is that they often don't have all that much power. You can be content to ignore them. And sure, maybe sometimes a sharp reply is needed, but stick to the facts, don't get dragged into the mud.
While I would agree with you that they can be (mostly) ignored, the author says, "[t]hey lurk in IRC channels waiting to harass new programmers. These are the types of people who discourage women from participating in classrooms and within our open source communities."
The problem is that these so-called bullies are hurtful to the community. The concept of computing or technology in general is frightening to most because of the apparent "requirements" in terms of knowledge one needs to have to participate in the scene. Browsing the Github repository of your favorite open source application can be overwhelming to inexperienced people, and if you pair this fear newcomers have with a toxic community, the effects can be disastrous.
The good thing is that these "bullies" are a tiny minority. Yes, they are very vocal, but it seems that no one stands up to them (or maybe just chooses to ignore them). Ultimately it varies from community to community.
The problem is that these so-called bullies are hurtful to the community. The concept of computing or technology in general is frightening to most because of the apparent "requirements" in terms of knowledge one needs to have to participate in the scene. Browsing the Github repository of your favorite open source application can be overwhelming to inexperienced people, and if you pair this fear newcomers have with a toxic community, the effects can be disastrous.
The good thing is that these "bullies" are a tiny minority. Yes, they are very vocal, but it seems that no one stands up to them (or maybe just chooses to ignore them). Ultimately it varies from community to community.
Zed Shaw is proof online tech communities are not entirely unlike professional wrestling. He would have been another decent author nobody talked about had he not been smart and turned heel with his online persona.
I don't know him. I only occasionally come across something he's written. But I'll be damned if I wasn't angry to see a post about him on Hacker News.
I don't know him. I only occasionally come across something he's written. But I'll be damned if I wasn't angry to see a post about him on Hacker News.
Scott Hanselman held a session on this at Alt.net Seattle a few years back, called "Why so mean?" At the time, in the Alt.net community, we had some pretty nasty people. The picture of Scott suggesting the session is pretty great: http://www.hanselman.com/blog/ExperiencingALTNETSeattle2009O...
Recording of the session used to be here: http://www.kyte.tv/shanselman#uri=channels/240253/361169 but it appears that the service might be dead (or just blocked here at work)
Overall I think Zed is overreacting. It's so easy to do. I would guess he may just be one that may not be able to discern tone through text very well (most people can't, I think). That said, I have a lot of respect for Zed and his contributions, such as Learn Python The Hard Way.
Overall I think Zed is overreacting. It's so easy to do. I would guess he may just be one that may not be able to discern tone through text very well (most people can't, I think). That said, I have a lot of respect for Zed and his contributions, such as Learn Python The Hard Way.
Wouldn't a more prudent way of dealing with this just be to ignore it? You could have just not cared and gone back to whatever else is more important than hate spat through twitter, which I believe is just about anything.
I somehow doubt that whatever Zed puts on twitter is going to have any bearing whatsoever on your future employment/ hobbies/ life.
I somehow doubt that whatever Zed puts on twitter is going to have any bearing whatsoever on your future employment/ hobbies/ life.
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The thing that stuck out to me the most was the tone more than anything else, really. It felt like his tweets were written in caps lock ...
TL;DR: I'm mad at Zed Shaw, so I'll help him sell a lot more books by complaining about nothing.
Zed Shaw discourages learning and opensource, rly? You probably missed the Learn X The Hard Way series he puts up a shitload of work in so newcommers can actually learn efficiently to code. And what on earth that has to do with women?! You're seriously barking at the wrong tree.
//edit: btw for your amusement http://web.archive.org/web/20080103072111/http://www.zedshaw... enjoy