The Mac Pro from an audio pros perspective(createdigitalmusic.com)
createdigitalmusic.com
The Mac Pro from an audio pros perspective
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2013/06/life-after-slots-what-the-mac-pro-external-hardware-mean-for-production/
12 comments
+1 for the extinction of cards and slots.
One of the most nerve-wracking moments of my (former) life as a recording engineer was installing a brand new Pro Tools card into a brand new Mac Pro at Aereosmith's studio. For whatever reason, the fit was way tighter than normal and I literally had to put some of my body weight over the thing to get it to slide in. All the while, just wondering how I was going to explain to Joe Perry that I had snapped a $6k Pro Tools card in half. Luckily, I didn't have to.
One of the most nerve-wracking moments of my (former) life as a recording engineer was installing a brand new Pro Tools card into a brand new Mac Pro at Aereosmith's studio. For whatever reason, the fit was way tighter than normal and I literally had to put some of my body weight over the thing to get it to slide in. All the while, just wondering how I was going to explain to Joe Perry that I had snapped a $6k Pro Tools card in half. Luckily, I didn't have to.
Combining voices with the person in this thread asking about external GPUs, I long for the day when we can have powerful Thunderbolt GPUs. High-end video cards are becoming ever larger with each generation, to the point where I had to upgrade my case and motherboard when I upgraded my video card last time. I just couldn't fit the card in the case, and the card suddenly overlapped parts on the motherboard that weren't a problem previously.
The problem of hard drives taking up too much room in a case is solved. The problem of expansion cards taking up too much room in a case is solved. If we could get that to video cards as well, we can throw the whole concept of massive cases in traditional form factors being required for high end workstations right out the window.
The problem of hard drives taking up too much room in a case is solved. The problem of expansion cards taking up too much room in a case is solved. If we could get that to video cards as well, we can throw the whole concept of massive cases in traditional form factors being required for high end workstations right out the window.
The problem with Thunderbolt is a bandwidth one and Apple's support:
PCIe 16x is 128 gbps bi-directional, Thunderbolt 2 is 20 gbps. Putting it just over 4x PCIe.
Currently Windows supports graphics cards via Thunderbolt but OS X doesn't. There's also no guarantee Apple support drivers for external PCIe graphics chipsets.
Maybe in 3 years Thunderbolt 3 will be 128 gbps but PCIe will hit its next iteration putting it that much further beyond. Thunderbolt is awesome as an I/O setup but for graphically minded individuals, its still not as amazing as one might hope.
Currently Windows supports graphics cards via Thunderbolt but OS X doesn't. There's also no guarantee Apple support drivers for external PCIe graphics chipsets.
Maybe in 3 years Thunderbolt 3 will be 128 gbps but PCIe will hit its next iteration putting it that much further beyond. Thunderbolt is awesome as an I/O setup but for graphically minded individuals, its still not as amazing as one might hope.
> Currently Windows supports graphics cards via Thunderbolt but OS X doesn't.
Citation? From a software perspective, Thunderbolt is just hotpluggable PCIe. There's not much that can be done to prevent compatibility with a GPU connected via Thunderbolt, especially when the OS already supports switchable graphics. From what I've read, the biggest challenge to using an external GPU enclosure with a Mac is getting a GPU that OS X has drivers for, not anything Thunderbolt-related.
Citation? From a software perspective, Thunderbolt is just hotpluggable PCIe. There's not much that can be done to prevent compatibility with a GPU connected via Thunderbolt, especially when the OS already supports switchable graphics. From what I've read, the biggest challenge to using an external GPU enclosure with a Mac is getting a GPU that OS X has drivers for, not anything Thunderbolt-related.
That is an extremely interesting take which I hadn't considered, especially when considering rMBPs have two TB ports.
The scaling across the range would be much smoother if they released a headless mid-range machine, rather than relying entirely on iMacs (and laptops) to fill the gap between the Mini and the Pro. They seem quite actively disinterested in building such a machine, though.
It's a common complaint: here's a blogpost from 2007 called "Where's the Mac?" http://don.blogs.smugmug.com/2007/08/08/wheres-the-mac/ . Midrange desktops are probably still where the buyers are most price/performance-conscious, and where design/engineering effort makes the least difference: Apple probably wants to avoid competing on that kind of terrain. They may also be worried about people who would opt for a midrange Mac over a Mac Pro if given the option.
A laptop in clamshell mode is a good substitute for a headless mid-range machine. Combine it with a BookArc stand to avoid wasting desk space and it's hard to beat.
Depends what you're looking for GPU-wise (which is also one of the frustrations of the iMac range). Also, slower CPUs and memory limited to 16Gb.
In many respects, the new Mac Pro is exactly the all-round machine (development, scientific computing, plus the odd game) I've been waiting for. If it shows up with a reasonable low-end version, I'd buy it in a flash (or even sooner, given an Nvidia GPU option). But Apple have been very wary about releasing mid-range machines which might cannibalise iMac sales, so I'm not holding my breath.
In many respects, the new Mac Pro is exactly the all-round machine (development, scientific computing, plus the odd game) I've been waiting for. If it shows up with a reasonable low-end version, I'd buy it in a flash (or even sooner, given an Nvidia GPU option). But Apple have been very wary about releasing mid-range machines which might cannibalise iMac sales, so I'm not holding my breath.
The Mac Pro design looks like a better template for a mid-to-high end desktop - at least if the Thunderbolt market matures enough. It would have downsides compared to a conventional PCI-E-motherboard PC, but it would be a unique and interesting option. I don't think it can really cut it as a substitute for a meat-eating high-end workstation though. (Compare: http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C600/X9D... - two Xeons and up to half a TiB of RAM in 16 sockets, never mind about PCI-E.)
Maybe most professional audio guys don't actually require a serious workstation anymore; I'm sure Apple is calculating or hoping that it will be good enough for enough video editors too. It's hard to see the 2013 Mac Pro getting under the desks at Pixar, but presumably Apple feels willing to give up on that end of the market.
Maybe most professional audio guys don't actually require a serious workstation anymore; I'm sure Apple is calculating or hoping that it will be good enough for enough video editors too. It's hard to see the 2013 Mac Pro getting under the desks at Pixar, but presumably Apple feels willing to give up on that end of the market.
This only works if the laptop is designed to be used in clamshell mode - ie, if you tax the processors and the thermal venting isn't adequate it will either fail or ruin the lifespan of the components.
The Macs are designed to run this way as far as I can tell.
Isn't that how Reddit started? Hosted on a laptop. I read that somewhere. They had to keep it around to restart the server every few hours.
Best part about hosting on a headless laptop: built-in UPS in case you have a power dip or somebody knocks the power strip out.
I've wondered: if computer makers sold laptops with lights-out-management and detachable displays, would people would repurpose them into makeshift mobile servers and design entire server farms around them, like they have with the Mac Mini. You could have a work/coding environment where if somebody needs to take home the dev server to hack on it overnight, they pull it out of the rack, slap on a display, use it any other laptop, and bring it back in the morning to plug back in.
I've wondered: if computer makers sold laptops with lights-out-management and detachable displays, would people would repurpose them into makeshift mobile servers and design entire server farms around them, like they have with the Mac Mini. You could have a work/coding environment where if somebody needs to take home the dev server to hack on it overnight, they pull it out of the rack, slap on a display, use it any other laptop, and bring it back in the morning to plug back in.
The Mini is supposed to be that, ideally. The graphics are the bottleneck, but they'll get better as the Intel integrated graphics pipeline improves.
This has always been their plan. They tried this with the original Macintosh and it's successors. Up until now the PC market was growing too fast for them to get away with it. Now with the "Post-PC era" they're giving it another shot. I think it's an interesting idea, each external peripheral does one thing well. It reflects their current advertising and their product lines.
Is thunderbolt fast enough to drive a high end GPU?
Fast external GPUs are my dream. I can buy a convenient sized laptop with excellent specs in every category except for GPU. As soon as I want a good GPU, the laptop has to become a 10lb monster.
I want to just dock it at my home desk with the GPU and convert my laptop into essentially a desktop workstation. Then I can undock it and take it out to the coffeeshop when I want to work outside. Maybe the external GPU is tiny too, and I can throw that in my backpack with it when I want to do gamedev work outside the house.
I want to just dock it at my home desk with the GPU and convert my laptop into essentially a desktop workstation. Then I can undock it and take it out to the coffeeshop when I want to work outside. Maybe the external GPU is tiny too, and I can throw that in my backpack with it when I want to do gamedev work outside the house.
I don't think external GPUs are part of Apple's plan. The GPU comes inside the Mac, and if you want to upgrade it you can buy a new Mac.
OS X interestingly forgoes external graphics PCIe support (for now) with Thunderbolt. Windows supports it. Also Windows, since Windows 7 supports 24+ bit panels (think Dell Ultrasharp U2711), OS X is still stuck on 16.7 million.
Lately, I haven't felt like Apple has my back for pro-A/V :/
Lately, I haven't felt like Apple has my back for pro-A/V :/
That would seem very expensive.
Component upgrade costs are always cheaper than replacing the entire system, but what is the cost delta between replacing two GPUs and a CPU versus replacing the system. We don't know the cost for the Mac Pro yet, but given it's size and the limited number of components that are internal, it would appear to be optimized for system-level replacement.
What Apple has designed could be described as a laptop for your desk. Sales of systems where the CPU/GPU are upgradable are plummeting. The market is driving computers in this direction.
What Apple has designed could be described as a laptop for your desk. Sales of systems where the CPU/GPU are upgradable are plummeting. The market is driving computers in this direction.
That seems a shame , upgradeability has always let me have a relatively high performance system without breaking the bank.
I don't necessarily want a top end CPU, but I like a decent GPU and a lot of memory.
Not to mention the environmental factors.
I don't necessarily want a top end CPU, but I like a decent GPU and a lot of memory.
Not to mention the environmental factors.
I empathize, but the Mac Pro hasn't really been an option for anyone not looking to break the bank. If you're in to building your own systems, there are always other options:
OS X system guides - http://www.tonymacx86.com/
OS X system guides - http://www.tonymacx86.com/
External GPUs are not cheap too!
Perfect(for Apple)!
It's basically a PCIe x4 interface, so it's about 1/4 the bandwidth of most high-end video cards, and you should be able to make an external enclosure for them. So yes, it's possible to add one, it just won't be quite as fast.
More likely, you've got 2 upgradeable graphics cards in there, already running in an SLI configuration. It should be entirely upgradeable.
More likely, you've got 2 upgradeable graphics cards in there, already running in an SLI configuration. It should be entirely upgradeable.
It's hard to tell from the pictures, but since the video cards share the same thermal core, I'm not sure they are going to be easy to upgrade anymore.
Yes. You'd have to remove the stock heatsink and fans from the card you were putting in, which would surely invalidate its warranty straight away. Then you'd have to somehow mate it with the heatsink bases on that side of the Mac Pro's thermal core, not something that's not likely to be straightforward if the replacement card's make and model don't closely match that of the stock card it's replacing. And that's just the beginning of the possible problems.
Every indication seems to be the cards inside the Mac Pro are not upgradeable.
"It became necessary to destroy the Mac Pro to save it"
> It's a bold move.
No. It's "letting people use their device in a non-retarded way".
No. It's "letting people use their device in a non-retarded way".
This is one thing I never really understood. Apple really cares a lot about aesthetics. In the store their devices all look fantastic standing alone surrounded by white/black.
But when you see an Apple device in the real world, it looks like crap. Why? Because it's tangled up in this octopus of cables and external doodads.
In my office I have a Lenovo X220, and everyone else has Macs, mostly Macbooks. I have a docking station, so all my cables other than mouse and keyboard are behind my desk out of sight and mind. The co-worker with the iMac has the same situation. Everyone else has a Macbook Pro or Air. The entire left sides of their desk are a mess of cables spewing out the side of the Macbooks. It ruins everything.
Hiding everything inside of the beautiful box keeps it pretty, so I've never really understood why Apple loves external devices so much more than internal.
But when you see an Apple device in the real world, it looks like crap. Why? Because it's tangled up in this octopus of cables and external doodads.
In my office I have a Lenovo X220, and everyone else has Macs, mostly Macbooks. I have a docking station, so all my cables other than mouse and keyboard are behind my desk out of sight and mind. The co-worker with the iMac has the same situation. Everyone else has a Macbook Pro or Air. The entire left sides of their desk are a mess of cables spewing out the side of the Macbooks. It ruins everything.
Hiding everything inside of the beautiful box keeps it pretty, so I've never really understood why Apple loves external devices so much more than internal.
I think that's a problem that's rather unique to our field. Most people I know who have MacBooks don't have them in a "docked" configuration ever. It sits on their desk where the most that comes out of them is the power adapter and a USB cable.
I hear ya though, my Macbook Pro doubles as my home development machine, so when I'm "docked" it's just a morass of cables. It really would be nice if Apple lived up to the "Pro" moniker and gave us a reasonable dock.
I did order a Henge dock a while back, maybe I should actually unpack it and set it up...
I hear ya though, my Macbook Pro doubles as my home development machine, so when I'm "docked" it's just a morass of cables. It really would be nice if Apple lived up to the "Pro" moniker and gave us a reasonable dock.
I did order a Henge dock a while back, maybe I should actually unpack it and set it up...
They want you to buy their Thunderbolt display as a dock. You connect two cables - power and Thunderbolt to computer, and everything else to the display. It has few usb, firewire, ehternet, audio (built-in speakers), camera...
Awesome. So now your monitor is a morass of cables and plugs.
It's a lot easier to hide cables coming out of the back of a monitor than it is from the side of a laptop. Plus, it's basically what a typical dock does.
Plus it's not common for an external monitor to move around with you. It's just two cables to unplug when you go mobile.
I agree, I use my rMBP connected to a second monitor, network cable and with an external keyboard and mouse, so I have cables and adapters vomiting all over my desk. When I come in to work in the morning I spend a good few minutes connecting all that crap up and sorting the cables out so I have some space to work.
The endless adapters definitely add more clutter and complexity to the setup.
With my old Dell I just plopped it into the dock which kept most of that stuff sorted out and pointed away from my desk. I had the same amount of connectors, just organized better.
I recently moved to a bluetooth keyboard and mouse and finally got my wifi setup so now it's just power and monitor and it looks much more sane.
Of course now I have to make sure my mouse and keyboard are turned on and wait for them to connect which means I'm sometimes logging into my computer from it's own keyboard first to fiddle with the bluetooth stuff.
I'm considering getting an external optical drive which of course will reverse this trend, but for now I can't burn any disks when I need to.
The endless adapters definitely add more clutter and complexity to the setup.
With my old Dell I just plopped it into the dock which kept most of that stuff sorted out and pointed away from my desk. I had the same amount of connectors, just organized better.
I recently moved to a bluetooth keyboard and mouse and finally got my wifi setup so now it's just power and monitor and it looks much more sane.
Of course now I have to make sure my mouse and keyboard are turned on and wait for them to connect which means I'm sometimes logging into my computer from it's own keyboard first to fiddle with the bluetooth stuff.
I'm considering getting an external optical drive which of course will reverse this trend, but for now I can't burn any disks when I need to.
There are docking stations for MacBooks, it's just that Apple doesn't make them. One of several: http://www.hengedocks.com/
Thunderbolt Dock would be the dream...
I settle for an external USB hub, wireless keyboard and mouse, and outboard audio. It does enough to reduce the number of things I have to plug.
I settle for an external USB hub, wireless keyboard and mouse, and outboard audio. It does enough to reduce the number of things I have to plug.
Here you go, living the dream!
http://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-F4U055
http://www.matrox.com/docking_station/en/ds1/
(Matrox one is kinda lame)
http://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-F4U055
http://www.matrox.com/docking_station/en/ds1/
(Matrox one is kinda lame)
Only $249 and $299! Dreams are expensive....
> Hiding everything inside of the beautiful box keeps it pretty, so I've never really understood why Apple loves external devices so much more than internal.
If you mean this criticism in regards to the Mac Pro, expansion cards usually have cables coming out of them as well, so the Mac Pro is no different from traditional desktops in that regard. SSD on PCI is obviously an exception here, but that's a relative newcomer.
As far as laptop computers, the reason you have a dock and others don't is that you purchased a dock, and the others didn't. So perhaps the Apple users you know care less about aesthetics than you think they do.
If you mean this criticism in regards to the Mac Pro, expansion cards usually have cables coming out of them as well, so the Mac Pro is no different from traditional desktops in that regard. SSD on PCI is obviously an exception here, but that's a relative newcomer.
As far as laptop computers, the reason you have a dock and others don't is that you purchased a dock, and the others didn't. So perhaps the Apple users you know care less about aesthetics than you think they do.
Except that with the new Mac Pro, you'll still have all the cables that would previously have come out of expansion cards, but they'll be coming from a whole bunch of external boxes with their own cables, power adapters, etc.
Then there's the question of storage; previously local hard disks could be installed entirely internally, with no external cables, whereas now they all have to be external. Thankfully it should be possible to bus-power those if you don't care about daisy-chaining them.
Then there's the question of storage; previously local hard disks could be installed entirely internally, with no external cables, whereas now they all have to be external. Thankfully it should be possible to bus-power those if you don't care about daisy-chaining them.
Does Apple make a laptop dock for a Macbook?
Nope, but third-parties are now making thunderbolt docks[1]. These are useful when you have your monitors on a VESA Mount.
1) I'm having a Déjà vu moment comparing these to the old Atari 850 Interface http://www.atarimuseum.com/computers/8bits/400800/atari850.h...
1) I'm having a Déjà vu moment comparing these to the old Atari 850 Interface http://www.atarimuseum.com/computers/8bits/400800/atari850.h...
Their "dock" is the Thunderbolt display, which is more elegant than a traditional dock.
The author hits the nail right on the head here. The new Mac Pro is making a bold bet on the future: that given sufficient bandwidth, the benefits of external expansion ultimately outweigh the benefits of packing them into a tower. This is going to cause tremendous short-term pain and the fiercest hand-wringing the tech world has seen since the release of FCP X, but in the long term I think Apple made the right bet and will come out ahead.
Let's not forget that moving to thunderbolt actually makes the whole machine MORE expandable, because of daisy-chaining.
An existing computer may have something like 5 PCIe slots. That's your limit. But with these thunderbolt ports, you can hook up 6 devices per port. 5 PCIe cards vs a potential of 36? I really don't see how the new Mac Pro is less extendable.
In addition, now that there is no CD Drive, there's no longer any reason why this tower needs to sit where you do. You could theoretically have 40ft Thunderbolt cables drive your displays, and the computer can be neatly stowed away in another room, and just the interfaces (like these cool looking RME devices) and other monitors and editing equipment can stay on your desk.
When it comes time to upgrade, you just replace the "brain", and hook up all the cables to it.
An existing computer may have something like 5 PCIe slots. That's your limit. But with these thunderbolt ports, you can hook up 6 devices per port. 5 PCIe cards vs a potential of 36? I really don't see how the new Mac Pro is less extendable.
In addition, now that there is no CD Drive, there's no longer any reason why this tower needs to sit where you do. You could theoretically have 40ft Thunderbolt cables drive your displays, and the computer can be neatly stowed away in another room, and just the interfaces (like these cool looking RME devices) and other monitors and editing equipment can stay on your desk.
When it comes time to upgrade, you just replace the "brain", and hook up all the cables to it.
I agree, very informative and good article.
I am not a AV guy, but using my mac mini i started to do the same thing described in the article. rather than byuing an internal hdd, i simply connected a 1tb external drive (silent, sdd). at first I didn't think about it, but this enabled me to:
- Need to transfer files to one of my Windows machines? Simply unplug the hdd from the mac and plug into the Winbox
- Travelling? Take my entire library of stuff with me. No need for DropBox, etc. This works offline, anywhere.
Sounds low tech and slightly too simple, but I'd love to expand this to other functionalities. An external graphics card would be awesome, play games on any machine I want (Mini or Air...).
I've built my own gaming PCs, but by now I would really prefer something more modular, easy, true plug and play.
I am not a AV guy, but using my mac mini i started to do the same thing described in the article. rather than byuing an internal hdd, i simply connected a 1tb external drive (silent, sdd). at first I didn't think about it, but this enabled me to:
- Need to transfer files to one of my Windows machines? Simply unplug the hdd from the mac and plug into the Winbox
- Travelling? Take my entire library of stuff with me. No need for DropBox, etc. This works offline, anywhere.
Sounds low tech and slightly too simple, but I'd love to expand this to other functionalities. An external graphics card would be awesome, play games on any machine I want (Mini or Air...).
I've built my own gaming PCs, but by now I would really prefer something more modular, easy, true plug and play.
It's not an either/or proposition; Why couldn't Apple have provided a tower that had both internal and external expansion? Because new Mac Pro 'needs' to be 1/8th the volume of the old Mac Pro?
> Why couldn't Apple have provided a tower that had both internal and external expansion?
The lack of internal expansion means high-end mac pro peripherals have to be TB, which may finally kickstart the the TB ecosystem. And when that happens, these peripherals are compatible with all machines from the mini and air to rMBP and mac pro.
The lack of internal expansion means high-end mac pro peripherals have to be TB, which may finally kickstart the the TB ecosystem. And when that happens, these peripherals are compatible with all machines from the mini and air to rMBP and mac pro.
Because it isn't necessary for the future they envision. It's like including a DVD drive on a laptop: some people might use it now, but it's very clearly on the way out.
Apple generally make these decisions before it's very clear what direction the industry is heading.
Their decision here is to position the Mac Pro as a tiny, powerful computing hub that has the bandwidth and controllers necessary to drive a crazy amount of professional hardware at high speed.
This unifies their products relative to external accessories (if everything is Thunderbolt, you can plug your hardware into your laptop when required). It also lets them stay focused on making the best 'pro' computing hub they can build. (That it also happens to be quiet and small is a very nice plus.)
Edit: That said, who knows whether this is the right direction for the pro industry.
Apple generally make these decisions before it's very clear what direction the industry is heading.
Their decision here is to position the Mac Pro as a tiny, powerful computing hub that has the bandwidth and controllers necessary to drive a crazy amount of professional hardware at high speed.
This unifies their products relative to external accessories (if everything is Thunderbolt, you can plug your hardware into your laptop when required). It also lets them stay focused on making the best 'pro' computing hub they can build. (That it also happens to be quiet and small is a very nice plus.)
Edit: That said, who knows whether this is the right direction for the pro industry.
The other interesting bit of this strategy is how OS X serves as the wedge that forces people to take the bitter pill and recalibrate their idea of pro computing. Any other hardware company wouldn't have the clout to avoid losing massive marketshare in a move like this.
The same argument can be made for many of Apple product decisions, why no Blu-Ray? Why no SuperDrive in the MBPr? The simple answer being as always, Apple doesn't think it's necessary. They've clearly designed it for a very specific purpose, I'm interested in seeing what the futures bodes for it.
For the same reason the original Macintosh had no arrow keys or why the iMac didn't have a floppy drive or internal slots.
That wouldn't put any pressure on 3rd parties to manufacture external peripherals (which is hypothetically the goal).
[deleted]
[deleted]
There's enough people out there that will let the appearance playe a major part in their decision of whether or not to buy it. So yes, from Apple's POV it needs to be smaller and different looking. It's all about pleasing the customers, innit?
As a side point, those RME audio interfaces mentioned in the article are utterly fantastic. I've recently acquired an older firewire one, and it makes everything else in its pricerange look like a bad joke.
They are the only people developing custom USB/firewire controllers, everyone else just sticks a TI chipset in there, wraps the OEM drivers and goes to lunch. Not the plucky germans at RME.
If you need to get audio in or out of your computer, you should settle for nothing less.
They are the only people developing custom USB/firewire controllers, everyone else just sticks a TI chipset in there, wraps the OEM drivers and goes to lunch. Not the plucky germans at RME.
If you need to get audio in or out of your computer, you should settle for nothing less.
This really reminds me of the original iMac. When it came out, USB devices were pretty rare, but this got better pretty quickly, especially regarding printers. Firewire wasn't as successful. Although, if I understand correctly, you can just hook up an external PCI-express bay via thunderbolt, so you don't really need special hardware (like e.g. USB audio devices). So apart from the usual series of external hard drives, you'll probably find a few expansion bays docket to your central ash tray.
But given the additional power bricks, wires and boxes you need for this, it seems they're optimizing for the non-extended situation and/or want to give their other computers equal footing.
But given the additional power bricks, wires and boxes you need for this, it seems they're optimizing for the non-extended situation and/or want to give their other computers equal footing.
I think the key point brought up here is that there is greater convenience in external accessories once there is more than one computing device to use them with - and I'd say that's a much more common scenario than it used to be.
My suggestion to Apple (or 3PP), would be to make a stackable accessory form factor (along the lines of http://www.123macmini.com/accessories/guide/enclosures.html) with built-in Thunderbolt connectors, or at least cable guides. They could be styled in the same style as the Mac Pro. Imagine just slotting on another level of your little accessory tower, with a single Thunderbolt going to the "capital ship".
My suggestion to Apple (or 3PP), would be to make a stackable accessory form factor (along the lines of http://www.123macmini.com/accessories/guide/enclosures.html) with built-in Thunderbolt connectors, or at least cable guides. They could be styled in the same style as the Mac Pro. Imagine just slotting on another level of your little accessory tower, with a single Thunderbolt going to the "capital ship".
"It looks like a Dyson vacuum cleaner someone lifted from the maintenance closet on the Death Star."
Shamelessly quoting myself: "The thing looks genuinely ugly with the outer casing off: like computer junk from the late '90s, with a touch of Jawa Quality Spares." http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Msp...
By the way, I just realised what it is that the base of the new Mac Pro was reminding me of: it's the old G4 iMac, of course http://macspeedzone.com/images/reviews/machines/desktop/imac... .
By the way, I just realised what it is that the base of the new Mac Pro was reminding me of: it's the old G4 iMac, of course http://macspeedzone.com/images/reviews/machines/desktop/imac... .
The loss of the hard drive bays really doesn't worry me (is anyone doing serious work really not working off a big RAID or a SAN?), and my audio interfaces have been external for years...
The only thing I might want is a PCI-Express slot for a RED ROCKET card (it's a hardware decoder for 4K+ video from RED cameras) but I've never really felt the urge to splurge for one of those - both Final Cut Pro X and Premiere Pro are good enough at decoding it with the CPU and GPU even on my MacBook Pro so the Mac Pro should have no problems with it... The only time I feel it is rendering (you can work in 1/4 res [a bit more than 1080p] but for finishing you want full quality even if you're downscaling). And if I did want one, there are a number of adaptors that work with them...
The only thing I might want is a PCI-Express slot for a RED ROCKET card (it's a hardware decoder for 4K+ video from RED cameras) but I've never really felt the urge to splurge for one of those - both Final Cut Pro X and Premiere Pro are good enough at decoding it with the CPU and GPU even on my MacBook Pro so the Mac Pro should have no problems with it... The only time I feel it is rendering (you can work in 1/4 res [a bit more than 1080p] but for finishing you want full quality even if you're downscaling). And if I did want one, there are a number of adaptors that work with them...
A Red Rocket card can be attached to your thunderbolt workstation video this http://www.mlogic.com/products/mlink-r which is currently listed at $599.
I don't know that TB1 will have enough bandwidth for the new Red Rocket X card, and I'm not yet aware of any TB2 -> PCIe chassis for sale.
I don't know that TB1 will have enough bandwidth for the new Red Rocket X card, and I'm not yet aware of any TB2 -> PCIe chassis for sale.
I am curious about if the new Mac Pro will promote the build of high end Hackintoshes to fill the gap left by Apple in their product line.
Audio pros want everything outside the box anyway: interference from the power supply, motherboard, etc are unacceptable. External peripherals are the norm.
I don't see any problem with this whatsoever.
I don't see any problem with this whatsoever.
External peripherals bring in the delights of ground loops wall warts and dodgey inputs. Not to mention cables galore.
What is clear from this latest design is that Apple doesn't see audio production as a market worth considering when designing stuff.
What is clear from this latest design is that Apple doesn't see audio production as a market worth considering when designing stuff.
Thunderbolt provides 10W of power, so a lot of devices only need one cable, and won't have any higher chance of ground loops than an internal part. Also, ground loops are much less of a problem across digital connections like TB or FireWire - it's when you're connecting two pieces of equipment with an analog audio cable that ground loops get annoying.
That's ridiculous. The power from the wall has the potential to be much cleaner and more predictable than that from a PC power supply. If that's the issue, then the device's power supply is designed poorly.
I think there will be (and frankly are) very high-quality external interfaces that have none of these issues, and avoid larger internal issues. Your argument is a non-issue, and your conclusion is an overreaction.
I think there will be (and frankly are) very high-quality external interfaces that have none of these issues, and avoid larger internal issues. Your argument is a non-issue, and your conclusion is an overreaction.
The power from the wall is only as clean as permitted by the cheapest, most worn out hair dryer or air conditioner in your building (or maybe neighborhood). PC power supplies typically aren't great but they have to do some filtering for the machine to run at all.
[deleted]
[deleted]
There's no "oh, we only have a card, you have to have a machine with slots" anymore - every machine, from the lowliest Mac Minis and MacBooks to the highest end Mac Pro will be able to use the same peripherals.
I think this is the end goal. Apple's computers will scale along the CPU and GPU performance and memory size axes, with everything else being an peripheral you can theoretically move to any computer you own.
It's a bold move.