Ask HN: Can I compete with Basecamp?
7 comments
A question that often comes back: Can I enter <insert saturated market here>?
The answer is it depends :-) There are lots of successful project management apps. The advantage of an established market is that people already know they have a problem and are looking for solutions online. On the other hand you have to really differentiate your product in order to get customers who could just use Basecamp or any other PM tool. You can't just go and copy Basecamp and expect people to switch.
So the real question here is what can you make better than Basecamp? You don't need to make it better in every aspect (and you will burn yourself doing it). Just find a corner use case where Basecamp doesn't work well enough. There are probably lots of use cases for which Basecamp sucks. Don't try to solve them all though.
So it means doing your research. Interviewing people is a good way. Mining online forums with data is another good one. Find out one strong pain that is not addressed by Basecamp, and that you could solve yourself. Then build it.
The answer is it depends :-) There are lots of successful project management apps. The advantage of an established market is that people already know they have a problem and are looking for solutions online. On the other hand you have to really differentiate your product in order to get customers who could just use Basecamp or any other PM tool. You can't just go and copy Basecamp and expect people to switch.
So the real question here is what can you make better than Basecamp? You don't need to make it better in every aspect (and you will burn yourself doing it). Just find a corner use case where Basecamp doesn't work well enough. There are probably lots of use cases for which Basecamp sucks. Don't try to solve them all though.
So it means doing your research. Interviewing people is a good way. Mining online forums with data is another good one. Find out one strong pain that is not addressed by Basecamp, and that you could solve yourself. Then build it.
Stress on strong pain. Not a pain.
I strongly believe that to compete against a particular characteristic or price it will not lead to a successful conclusion. What really wins in this situation is the philosophy and the flow of application usage. Features can be in or out anytime. Prices can be high or be lowered later but the core workflow, not.
Basecamp has changed considerably over the years and the features never competed against the rest of the competition, but it did in philosophy. Their software is easier to use than others and that, I think from the evidence shown, is what people pay.
If you want to compete against them, you have to be different from them in philosophy. Look Trello and then looks Basecamp. Both are different but they are made for a single purpose: to work and manage projects. If you compete on features, one would end up like the other.
Basecamp has changed considerably over the years and the features never competed against the rest of the competition, but it did in philosophy. Their software is easier to use than others and that, I think from the evidence shown, is what people pay.
If you want to compete against them, you have to be different from them in philosophy. Look Trello and then looks Basecamp. Both are different but they are made for a single purpose: to work and manage projects. If you compete on features, one would end up like the other.
good feedback. thanks.
Here's what I see: you have identified a problem, and the problem is so big that you are itching to build a solution.
This seems to be independent from your question. Everyone on HN can come up with a reasonable speculative answer to your question (and mine would be a "yes"), but focusing on the issues makes clear if it's even worth competing in the first place.
With the information you provided, you seem to have a solid target market identified. How many teams are there that, like yours, that could benefit from a Basecamp alternative? And which of your team's needs aren't met with Basecamp, and is it something that Basecamp could replicate quickly? Dig a little bit deeper and discover the specific needs - that should reveal more useful information than any of us could provide :)
This seems to be independent from your question. Everyone on HN can come up with a reasonable speculative answer to your question (and mine would be a "yes"), but focusing on the issues makes clear if it's even worth competing in the first place.
With the information you provided, you seem to have a solid target market identified. How many teams are there that, like yours, that could benefit from a Basecamp alternative? And which of your team's needs aren't met with Basecamp, and is it something that Basecamp could replicate quickly? Dig a little bit deeper and discover the specific needs - that should reveal more useful information than any of us could provide :)
I did not like basecamp. It felt like a free product but charges pretty high prices. It felt limited and kind of shabby. Maybe it's because I've heard so many people raving about it that I expected too much. I'm not sure.
I use Asana now. It's an awesome product for what I need. Their iPhone app is pretty good. The whole package is free for teams up to 30. I feel like I'm stealing when I use it, which means that I'll probably have to start paying for it soon to ease my guilt. I've heard great things about their API although I've never used it myself.
Can you do it? Yes, but it's going to be difficult. There are innumerable competitors out there with established names.
I use Asana now. It's an awesome product for what I need. Their iPhone app is pretty good. The whole package is free for teams up to 30. I feel like I'm stealing when I use it, which means that I'll probably have to start paying for it soon to ease my guilt. I've heard great things about their API although I've never used it myself.
Can you do it? Yes, but it's going to be difficult. There are innumerable competitors out there with established names.
Hundreds of small businesses compete with Basecamp so of course you can too. But that's not the important question, this is: why exactly does your client's marketing team hate Basecamp? Are they too big for Basecamp? Is the usability too bad? Does it get in the way of their work proccesses?
They feel like it is too limited and has no useful reporting and that they can't get good insight into the overall state of all their projects.
I will have to interview them more and will publish the info on my blog (emadibrahim.com)
I will have to interview them more and will publish the info on my blog (emadibrahim.com)
There are hundreds of CRMs out there, online and off-line, and a good number of them are successful. The key to competing is to find your niche (audience, feature, price, technology, etc.) and compete on that.
I've tried probably a hundred Basecamp alternatives over the past few years (it's practically a sickness, an obsession) and I still think Basecamp rules. Why? Because I can organize what's in my brain there, and upload files, make notes, export, etc. It's also got silky smooth drag-and-drop action.
It's like Evernote meets a todo. A perfect marriage. I also hate it for that reason. There seems to be nothing else that scratches that itch like Basecamp does. Drives me nuts.
Also, I don't do collaboration though, so the monthly subscription is a bit much for me.
I'll answer any other questions you have. Just reply here. I'm practically an expert on Basecamp alternatives!
P.S. One comes close though, and that's Trello, but Trello doesn't have a good Windows Phone app (yet), and so I won't use it.
It's like Evernote meets a todo. A perfect marriage. I also hate it for that reason. There seems to be nothing else that scratches that itch like Basecamp does. Drives me nuts.
Also, I don't do collaboration though, so the monthly subscription is a bit much for me.
I'll answer any other questions you have. Just reply here. I'm practically an expert on Basecamp alternatives!
P.S. One comes close though, and that's Trello, but Trello doesn't have a good Windows Phone app (yet), and so I won't use it.
Thanks for the feedback... I have used basecamp by myself but I am more interested in the team/collaboration aspect of it.
Other than Trello (which I love) what would be your top 3 alternatives that come close to basecamp?
What's missing from basecamp that you would love to see?
Are you paying for basecamp? I think they got rid of the free plan... are you ok with $20/month?
PS: I know exactly what you mean about the sickness of trying tools. I used to do that with GTD tools. I did RTM for 1 year, omnifocus for 1 year, then built my own (Taskorami) then finally settled on pen and paper :)
Other than Trello (which I love) what would be your top 3 alternatives that come close to basecamp?
What's missing from basecamp that you would love to see?
Are you paying for basecamp? I think they got rid of the free plan... are you ok with $20/month?
PS: I know exactly what you mean about the sickness of trying tools. I used to do that with GTD tools. I did RTM for 1 year, omnifocus for 1 year, then built my own (Taskorami) then finally settled on pen and paper :)
My top 3 basecamp alternatives (minus Trello and in order of preference) would be:
1) Nozbe - http://nozbe.com - Yes, it's a GTD app but you can also upload files and keep stuff organized. Very powerful
2) PBworks - http://pbworks.com - Their pricing is screwed up but there's a lot of flexibility there
3) IQTELL - http://iqtell.com - Promising, I was a heavy user for awhile. No windows app though
There are many other services that are closer clones to Basecamp like Siasto: http://siasto.com but after using them for a few weeks I realize how far behind Basecamp they really are. Siasto didn't seem serious about improving the product either. It was more on autopilot.
Asana: http://asana.com/ Meh. I'm not sure why, but I couldn't get comfortable with it.
What's missing from Basecamp? All my emails in one place, like IQTELL. I log into IQTELL and I get a snapshot of everything that's going on in my life (pretty much). Killer feature.
I bailed from Basecamp. Using Microsoft OneNote for my projects. Pretty good actually. There's a lot to love about OneNote.
Btw,I'm okay with paying a monthly fee, but I'd much rather pay a full year in advance, like with the Microsoft Office 2013 suite. Comes with OneNote and SkyDrive. Very handy.
Hope this helps. I'll keep an eye out for any other questions you might have.
1) Nozbe - http://nozbe.com - Yes, it's a GTD app but you can also upload files and keep stuff organized. Very powerful
2) PBworks - http://pbworks.com - Their pricing is screwed up but there's a lot of flexibility there
3) IQTELL - http://iqtell.com - Promising, I was a heavy user for awhile. No windows app though
There are many other services that are closer clones to Basecamp like Siasto: http://siasto.com but after using them for a few weeks I realize how far behind Basecamp they really are. Siasto didn't seem serious about improving the product either. It was more on autopilot.
Asana: http://asana.com/ Meh. I'm not sure why, but I couldn't get comfortable with it.
What's missing from Basecamp? All my emails in one place, like IQTELL. I log into IQTELL and I get a snapshot of everything that's going on in my life (pretty much). Killer feature.
I bailed from Basecamp. Using Microsoft OneNote for my projects. Pretty good actually. There's a lot to love about OneNote.
Btw,I'm okay with paying a monthly fee, but I'd much rather pay a full year in advance, like with the Microsoft Office 2013 suite. Comes with OneNote and SkyDrive. Very handy.
Hope this helps. I'll keep an eye out for any other questions you might have.
My client's marketing team (15+ people) have tens of basecamp projects and every single one of them hates it... Have we just been brainwashed to "think" that basecamp is awesome when non-techies actually don't like it but don't see a viable alternative?
If I go forward, do I focus on small teams and compete on price? Or do I go for larger teams (which I think basecamp is too limiting for)? How about a free site with a marketplace to buy add-ons?
Do you like/hate basecamp? Why?