Ask HN: You have $35,000 how do you invest it?
26 comments
I’d probably use the money to build a small physical asset that serves a community — something like a coffee stand, a laundromat, or even a village solar charging station. Something low-maintenance, low-tech, and useful.
But honestly… I’m currently helping build a classroom in rural Tajikistan, where kids walk 5 km to school every day. Not exactly a revenue-generating asset — unless you count hope, literacy, and the occasional "thank you" as ROI.
So yeah, maybe not the most lucrative investment, but probably one of the most fulfilling
But honestly… I’m currently helping build a classroom in rural Tajikistan, where kids walk 5 km to school every day. Not exactly a revenue-generating asset — unless you count hope, literacy, and the occasional "thank you" as ROI.
So yeah, maybe not the most lucrative investment, but probably one of the most fulfilling
What works for me may not be a priority to others but the freeze dried food I purchased in the last few years has more than doubled in value. I could sell it and / or I can eat it. There is no volatility in the foreseeable future. It will be at least 97% the nutritional value and taste for the rest of my life and the lives of my family members. It's value only increases in war-time. It is protected from future biological warfare contaminants that may get into the food supply. It can not be zeroed out by network hacks. It is much harder to steal than cash or digital currency. It does not require the internet. It can be sold, traded or bartered locally even if the concept of money ceases to exist. That is good enough for me personally.
Since this is a thread about investing, maybe for you the answer would be spend the $35k on starting up a freeze dried food business? It sounds like you’re knowledgeable and passionate. You’ve done almost enough market research.
If you made the processing mobile you could go to the crops and get them cheaper and fresher.
That is a good idea and valid point. I have weighed the costs and benefits of having my own freeze dryers and potentially selling it locally. For me personally it just does not work out as I am retired and wish to enjoy my retirement. There are many others that do this on a much larger scale than I could. I would also first have to build my new home and have enough room / power for all the freeze dryers. They are noisy and have to run anywhere from 1 to 2 days depending on what I am cooking and drying. They have to be protected from critters here that would destroy them. I would also be competing with the LDS church. Some of the locals know to turn to them if they need freeze dried foods.
At the moment and for me personally it just makes sense to let others do the work. There are companies that at the moment and for some time now have been freeze drying massive amounts of food for my government so I just piggy-back off their work when they have enough reserves. Freeze Dry Wholesalers. Their food is very fresh and high quality. When they are out I get the lower echelon of freeze dried foods on Amazon.
At the moment and for me personally it just makes sense to let others do the work. There are companies that at the moment and for some time now have been freeze drying massive amounts of food for my government so I just piggy-back off their work when they have enough reserves. Freeze Dry Wholesalers. Their food is very fresh and high quality. When they are out I get the lower echelon of freeze dried foods on Amazon.
I guess energy costs are an issue here.
The energy is paid up front. That's why freeze dried foods cost more. One need not use any energy to re-hydrate although hot water does work best. I can make that using my wood stoves and wood. There is an abundance of wood not too far from me.
Not really, you usualy harvest during sunny season so you can also harvest energy from sun. Small lyophilizer takes 1kW/h. So you can easily preserve food even offgrid.
Machine tools.
A lot of people complain that China has made manufacturing cheap but they forget that manufacturing tooling is itself manufactured. These days you can construct a small factory for less than it costs to commute to one.
I'd probably also upgrade the machine I use for ML.
A lot of people complain that China has made manufacturing cheap but they forget that manufacturing tooling is itself manufactured. These days you can construct a small factory for less than it costs to commute to one.
I'd probably also upgrade the machine I use for ML.
Don't forget tooling and metrology, material handling and other processing steps such as saws, deburring, cleaning equipment etc.
But this is only if you want to start a machine shop.
But this is only if you want to start a machine shop.
I would work a year for myself. Both to build a business and to focus on fitness. That's actually what I'm doing right now. Investing in myself, I would say.
With what you've said, the only options are you either invest it in something that will appreciate above the inflation rate with manageable risk, or you invest it in a small business with return cash flow. The idea is to diversify in risk managed assets.
Bonds are out. Commodities are out. Equity Securities, Index and ETFs are all out. All of these are overpriced, have unmanageable risk, and will lose people money; even the best traders out there will lose money on these.
The stock market is not an investment, its a casino where the PFOF house always wins. Price discovery failed when 25% of the exchange transactions started occurring in dark pools; its well over half now. Any investment in the stock market is burning money in effigy. Google Stop loss hunting, market manipulation (FRC/GME), PFOF, synthetic shares via options contracts, etc; to get an idea of how bad of an idea it is to do this.
Sectors that serve non-discretionary goods are usually more stable in down economies than other areas.
Bonds are out. Commodities are out. Equity Securities, Index and ETFs are all out. All of these are overpriced, have unmanageable risk, and will lose people money; even the best traders out there will lose money on these.
The stock market is not an investment, its a casino where the PFOF house always wins. Price discovery failed when 25% of the exchange transactions started occurring in dark pools; its well over half now. Any investment in the stock market is burning money in effigy. Google Stop loss hunting, market manipulation (FRC/GME), PFOF, synthetic shares via options contracts, etc; to get an idea of how bad of an idea it is to do this.
Sectors that serve non-discretionary goods are usually more stable in down economies than other areas.
> All of these are overpriced, have unmanageable risk, and will lose people money; even the best traders out there will lose money on these.
You’re not supposed to trade the index fund, you just buy and hold it confident in the knowledge that if it goes to zero you have a much bigger problem on your hands.
You’re not supposed to trade the index fund, you just buy and hold it confident in the knowledge that if it goes to zero you have a much bigger problem on your hands.
There are many ways to invest, and I'm not a financial advisor so I suggest you read up from people who are, or who are well known in such areas like Benjamin Graham, or David Dodd. The rules I mention are their rules, and this is not financial advice.
There are day traders, swing traders, options traders, and institutional traders; when it comes to the stock market. There are other ways as well.
> You're not supposed to trade the index fund, you just buy and hold it confident in the knowledge that if it goes to zero you have a much bigger problem on your hands.
If you are doing this, you are violating investment rules that date back to the 30s. Rule #1 is don't lose money, Rule #2 is Always Manage your Risk Rule #3 is Always invest with a sufficient margin for safety. Rule #4 is profit in volatility.
Today, Rule #1 can't be controlled, Rule #2 can't be managed, and Rule #3 has no margin for safety because of inherent changes to the structure of the exchange, the middlemen, the backstopped by the fed pricing, and the lack of price discovery all contribute to a sieve-like environment for those with more money than others.
If sufficient transactions happen in the dark (dark pools), there can be no price discovery, and this creates unmanageable volatility in the normal markets, and gives those people who trade in the dark the ability to manipulate and fix the market price indirectly.
Yield farming and stop loss hunting happen all the time. The T2 data subscriptions gives these traders access to know exactly how much they need to short to trigger these stop losses and just steal the difference. That's steal your money. Similar things happen in bonds using a YTM financial reporting loophole so interest rate risk isn't propagated into the market value of an ETF (just the underlying value).
The indexes are also required to rebalance and reinvest in companies who get listed, even when they have no intrinsic value. This is where your pensions and retirement are.
Most companies on the exchanges don't have intrinsic value because they are required to hold a debt burden greater than their assets to avoid hostile takeovers, which occur because banks print money through debt to fund it so long as the cashflow can meet certain circumstances over a 5 year term period.
AT&T and Tesla for example have very high debt to asset ratios, and this is true of most if not all equities. Tesla is a bit more convoluted in how they declare that debt because of EV/carbon credits and other regulatory shenanigans, you have to be able to analyze the securities appropriately.
There are day traders, swing traders, options traders, and institutional traders; when it comes to the stock market. There are other ways as well.
> You're not supposed to trade the index fund, you just buy and hold it confident in the knowledge that if it goes to zero you have a much bigger problem on your hands.
If you are doing this, you are violating investment rules that date back to the 30s. Rule #1 is don't lose money, Rule #2 is Always Manage your Risk Rule #3 is Always invest with a sufficient margin for safety. Rule #4 is profit in volatility.
Today, Rule #1 can't be controlled, Rule #2 can't be managed, and Rule #3 has no margin for safety because of inherent changes to the structure of the exchange, the middlemen, the backstopped by the fed pricing, and the lack of price discovery all contribute to a sieve-like environment for those with more money than others.
If sufficient transactions happen in the dark (dark pools), there can be no price discovery, and this creates unmanageable volatility in the normal markets, and gives those people who trade in the dark the ability to manipulate and fix the market price indirectly.
Yield farming and stop loss hunting happen all the time. The T2 data subscriptions gives these traders access to know exactly how much they need to short to trigger these stop losses and just steal the difference. That's steal your money. Similar things happen in bonds using a YTM financial reporting loophole so interest rate risk isn't propagated into the market value of an ETF (just the underlying value).
The indexes are also required to rebalance and reinvest in companies who get listed, even when they have no intrinsic value. This is where your pensions and retirement are.
Most companies on the exchanges don't have intrinsic value because they are required to hold a debt burden greater than their assets to avoid hostile takeovers, which occur because banks print money through debt to fund it so long as the cashflow can meet certain circumstances over a 5 year term period.
AT&T and Tesla for example have very high debt to asset ratios, and this is true of most if not all equities. Tesla is a bit more convoluted in how they declare that debt because of EV/carbon credits and other regulatory shenanigans, you have to be able to analyze the securities appropriately.
Given the massive list of restrictions on how the hypothetical $35,000 could be used, leads me to believe that it's come from illegal activities. In which case you'd want to launder it and then use it to pay your lawyer, as that would be an investment that might keep you out of jail :)
Elevator pitch: It's not well known that the diesel engine in a diesel locomotive does not mechanically drive the wheels to make the train go, it turns a generator that supplies power to electric motors that turn the wheels.
I'd like to build a better hybrid by replacing an EV's battery with a (towable) generator. ~$5k for SmartForTwo EV with an 84kW motor would be my choice. The generator needed is unknown so budget an electrical engineer for $10k or so and that leaves $20k for the generator.
(The towable requirement is only in case the research proves to be a failure I could still sell electricity to my neighbors in a grid-down situation :) Production targets would be busses, 18-wheeler tractors, Cybertrucks...
If we could attain a multiple of current mpg at decent speeds it would be a startup.
Diesel-electric locomotives solve the what-about-when-you-don’t-need-power-problem with large resistors to convert generator output to heat.
Any other solution is non-trivially more complex. Because you need to be able to slam your brakes and then punch the throttle.
Dedicated right-of-way means trains don’t operate in rush hour traffic and infrastructure costs dominate their economics. Dedicated right-of-way is also a good way to improve bus efficiency, but nobody wants to pay the political price for that infrastructure.
Any other solution is non-trivially more complex. Because you need to be able to slam your brakes and then punch the throttle.
Dedicated right-of-way means trains don’t operate in rush hour traffic and infrastructure costs dominate their economics. Dedicated right-of-way is also a good way to improve bus efficiency, but nobody wants to pay the political price for that infrastructure.
Create a mini-cat shelter. I don't know about growing the money, but you will have a lot of cats.
Is having lots of mini-cats preferable to having a few regular-sized cats?
35k might be enough for one mini Cat, such as a 301.
https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/excavators/...
https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/excavators/...
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Let's thinking through the problem... Basically you have a decent amount of money, but cannot invest/use it in the typical ways people might.
Given you're asking for something out of the box by definition you'll have to approach this from first principles and find some novel way to invest it which maximises risk-reward.
The most obvious place to start is to consider where you have unfair advantages. Small amounts of money are actually quite easy to invest with excess returns because you can exploit large misprices in small and inefficient markets.
A good example would be to look at your local Facebook marketplace, or better still garage / car boot sales. Find items which are pricey $5,000-$10,000, but you know could be sold for more... Knowledge of some kind of collectable could be useful here – vintage instruments, watches, jewellery, furniture, tools, etc.
If you're really ballsy you could actively seek out people with valuables who are ideally in desperate situations and offer them cash for their valuables. So for example, if you see a vintage car on someone's drive you could send them a letter with a low-ball cash offer. Most of the time they'll ignore it but do it 100 times and you'll likely get a hit. Buy for 20% under market price and sell for 5% more, and you're making around a 30% return per transaction. Do this a couple of times a year and you'll probably be able to replace your income. The issue is it's a lot of work and it doesn't scale well because you're exploiting very small local markets.
Given you're asking for something out of the box by definition you'll have to approach this from first principles and find some novel way to invest it which maximises risk-reward.
The most obvious place to start is to consider where you have unfair advantages. Small amounts of money are actually quite easy to invest with excess returns because you can exploit large misprices in small and inefficient markets.
A good example would be to look at your local Facebook marketplace, or better still garage / car boot sales. Find items which are pricey $5,000-$10,000, but you know could be sold for more... Knowledge of some kind of collectable could be useful here – vintage instruments, watches, jewellery, furniture, tools, etc.
If you're really ballsy you could actively seek out people with valuables who are ideally in desperate situations and offer them cash for their valuables. So for example, if you see a vintage car on someone's drive you could send them a letter with a low-ball cash offer. Most of the time they'll ignore it but do it 100 times and you'll likely get a hit. Buy for 20% under market price and sell for 5% more, and you're making around a 30% return per transaction. Do this a couple of times a year and you'll probably be able to replace your income. The issue is it's a lot of work and it doesn't scale well because you're exploiting very small local markets.
Classic cars, if you're into cars. Think older Porsche 911, muscle cars, Broncos, old pickup trucks, etc. This is not mine, and probably not $35k, but it can be an investment that you can have a lot of fun with. https://ibb.co/Vcby0WXC
In the past? Take some time off, do some reading, attend a couple college courses, fart around and see where the winds take me. Now? I would probably buy a bunch of musical equipment and start a music production company. But, in reality, I am attempting to acquire a business so this would make for a down payment on a loan.
Buy a minimal set of tools and start flipping cars. Then try to get a dealership license in your state. Start with small fixups and detailing work, flip one car, use the proceeds to get something a little more valuable, repeat.
Be honest with people when selling, no slimy sales tactics, ask for referrals. Maybe every few cars find someone who is in desperate need and sell it at cost, ask for referrals. Buy some more tools, repeat. Maybe get a small shop with a lift. Maybe hire a certified tech for really tough problems, someone who values integrity and doing a job right, like a semi-retired person that knows a lot.
Grow that $35k into a viable, honest, local, AI-proof business.
Be honest with people when selling, no slimy sales tactics, ask for referrals. Maybe every few cars find someone who is in desperate need and sell it at cost, ask for referrals. Buy some more tools, repeat. Maybe get a small shop with a lift. Maybe hire a certified tech for really tough problems, someone who values integrity and doing a job right, like a semi-retired person that knows a lot.
Grow that $35k into a viable, honest, local, AI-proof business.
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I know you said "you can't say startups", but I'll interpret that to mean "startup" as meant by SV types. Given the restrictions you list, the only investment that would interest me is funding my own small business.
Real estate. always.
35k is enough for a down payment on a small apartment. If you have a job, you can usually get a loan from most banks.
With good preparation and patience, you can cover all your costs by renting out your property and generate a monthly profit.
35k is enough for a down payment on a small apartment. If you have a job, you can usually get a loan from most banks.
With good preparation and patience, you can cover all your costs by renting out your property and generate a monthly profit.
Real Estate is one of the worst investments available to normal people. The risk premium is near zero while the risk they absorb is massive. Many landlords I know are cash flowing near zero, in some cases negative. I knew that would happen and was telling them a couple years ago but they said it's impossible because "everyone has to live somewhere." Their model of the economy is just so bizarre, like production will just materialize out of nowhere.
They still think it's ok because on paper their assets have appreciated but I think the market is just so iliquid right now they're not able to mark them accurately.
They still think it's ok because on paper their assets have appreciated but I think the market is just so iliquid right now they're not able to mark them accurately.
It’s a good investment if you understand that if you get upside down you need to stop paying take the short sale or bankruptcy and walk away. It’s a highly leveraged investment that can go south on you easily. Also timing right now is highly risky.
You also need to minimize transaction costs, if you pay 10% every time you buy and sell you won’t make any money
You also need to minimize transaction costs, if you pay 10% every time you buy and sell you won’t make any money
Still, I bought a rental sometimes around 2016-2017 IIRC, and it's still one of the best investments I ever made. Doubled in price, nominally, and took in almost a decade of virtually non-interrupted rent. On paper, it's roughly the same performance as S&P500 in that interval, but still, diversification is useful.
The past does not predict the future unfortunately. Else we should all be dumping money into NVIDIA and BTC.
From a gut feeling viewpoint, something doing very well in the recent past makes me hesitant out of fear that it’s overvalued and will slow or even reverse in the near term.
From a gut feeling viewpoint, something doing very well in the recent past makes me hesitant out of fear that it’s overvalued and will slow or even reverse in the near term.
Not sure your friends are doing it right.
I’m doing it and it’s just fine.
I wouldn’t buy at this interest rate unless you got a screaming deal and could refinance later if rates go down but it’s a viable option.
I wouldn’t buy at this interest rate unless you got a screaming deal and could refinance later if rates go down but it’s a viable option.
Or one of those... I forget the technical name, but it's basically buying fractions of real estate.
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Invest in yourself somehow - fly to a city full of opportunity and rent an airbnb, a few outfits you like, host a small event every week, hire tutors, that kinda thing.
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- collectible things like art
- other reserve assets like gold
- small businesses like a car wash or ice cream truck
- things you rent out: big tools, cars, parking lot
- other reserve assets like gold
- small businesses like a car wash or ice cream truck
- things you rent out: big tools, cars, parking lot
I would put it in a mattress. Because
Sure, I have lots of dubious ideas…$35k will buy a nice synthesizer, but wealth is not needing to grow your money and being wealthy is the ability to wait for appropriate investments.
We must do something
This is something
Therefore we must do it
Sure, I have lots of dubious ideas…$35k will buy a nice synthesizer, but wealth is not needing to grow your money and being wealthy is the ability to wait for appropriate investments.
The question is how active so your want to be with this? If you just want to buy something and sit on it and then sell it down the road for a decent amount of profit, you didn't exclude commodities, and while they wouldn't be my first choice of what to invest into (aka don't do this, this is not financial advice), but gold is a very traditional one that has appreciated enough in the past couple of years so as to not be totally ridiculous an investment. Assuming that $35k isn't a large fraction of your portfolio, that is. Diversification is the name of the game, so something not in the stock market that shows some history is enough to consider under the confines of this question.
But seriously, if there were some secret investment vehicle that wasn't so secret so as to actually be a secret, and that wasn't a scam half the time, people would know about it and talk about it as a real option. There's a reason that index funds in the stock market are the default advice for non-professional investors. If you're an active investor and have access to good deals, there are good deals out there, but not if you only have $35k. If you do have access to secret private equity deals, that would be investing into companies, but for the most part, ones that aren't start-ups.
Back to the question of how active you want to be with the money though. If you want to quit your day job and be actively doing something with the money, there's things you can buy and then maybe fix up, and then sell for a small profit. do that enough times and you've made a tiny bit of profit. At that price point, used cars that need work come to mind. How much you'd net isn't going to be all that large, and there's a large investment in tools and of time into it, but there's that. Getting a car and renting it out on Turo/Get around might be viable, or driving for Uber/Lyft but that's not a hands off money generator.
But seriously, if there were some secret investment vehicle that wasn't so secret so as to actually be a secret, and that wasn't a scam half the time, people would know about it and talk about it as a real option. There's a reason that index funds in the stock market are the default advice for non-professional investors. If you're an active investor and have access to good deals, there are good deals out there, but not if you only have $35k. If you do have access to secret private equity deals, that would be investing into companies, but for the most part, ones that aren't start-ups.
Back to the question of how active you want to be with the money though. If you want to quit your day job and be actively doing something with the money, there's things you can buy and then maybe fix up, and then sell for a small profit. do that enough times and you've made a tiny bit of profit. At that price point, used cars that need work come to mind. How much you'd net isn't going to be all that large, and there's a large investment in tools and of time into it, but there's that. Getting a car and renting it out on Turo/Get around might be viable, or driving for Uber/Lyft but that's not a hands off money generator.
Food.
HIMS AND HERS
Go!