Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes(techcrunch.com)
techcrunch.com
Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes
http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/24/apple-wins-patent-ruling-as-jury-finds-samsung-infringes/
354 comments
I was shocked to learn this case is basically being decided by people who have no idea what they are really deciding on.
Here is the jury according to techcrunch
1. An electrical engineer 2. A homemaker 3. A construction worker 4. A young unemployed man who likes video games 5. An insurance agent 6. An ex-Navy avionics technician 7. A store operations manager for a cycling retailer 8. A project manager for wireless carrier AT&T 9. A benefits and payroll manager who works with startups
http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/21/apple-samsung/
Only in America?? And how many of those people are biased because they just love Steve Jobs and Apple products. I know for sure, my mom loves her Mac and she wouldn't think twice who is right and who is wrong in this case.
Here is the jury according to techcrunch
1. An electrical engineer 2. A homemaker 3. A construction worker 4. A young unemployed man who likes video games 5. An insurance agent 6. An ex-Navy avionics technician 7. A store operations manager for a cycling retailer 8. A project manager for wireless carrier AT&T 9. A benefits and payroll manager who works with startups
http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/21/apple-samsung/
Only in America?? And how many of those people are biased because they just love Steve Jobs and Apple products. I know for sure, my mom loves her Mac and she wouldn't think twice who is right and who is wrong in this case.
This is a good result.
Samsung copies for a living like many companies. Much of the copying is legal. Sometimes they push it too far. One smoking gun in this case was the Google told Samsung to change their designs. They didn't. They reaped the benefits in terms of higher sales and now they can reap the bad side of that too.
On net it has still been profitable from Samsung. Samsung lost but it hasn't been shut down or anything. In fact Apple is paying Nokia much more then Samsung will end up paying Apple. People crying that the sky is falling have missed this reality.
No damages for the overbroad ipad design patent. This seems like a good result as much of the complaining seemed to be about the "rectangle patent" people thought Apple had. I think the EU Registered Design for the iPad is much more specific and more in line with what people think of as trade dress. Samsung didn't really make any money in the tablet arena anyway.
Samsung copies for a living like many companies. Much of the copying is legal. Sometimes they push it too far. One smoking gun in this case was the Google told Samsung to change their designs. They didn't. They reaped the benefits in terms of higher sales and now they can reap the bad side of that too.
On net it has still been profitable from Samsung. Samsung lost but it hasn't been shut down or anything. In fact Apple is paying Nokia much more then Samsung will end up paying Apple. People crying that the sky is falling have missed this reality.
No damages for the overbroad ipad design patent. This seems like a good result as much of the complaining seemed to be about the "rectangle patent" people thought Apple had. I think the EU Registered Design for the iPad is much more specific and more in line with what people think of as trade dress. Samsung didn't really make any money in the tablet arena anyway.
If Lucy Koh is so intent on protecting the singularity of one corporate interest over what is so obviously good for the general public, she should not be a Federal District Judge. She should still be in private practice.
We need Federal District Judges who are willing to work for the good of consumers, which involves protecting a market where competition can thrive.
Consumers benefit when there is more than one separate branch iterating outward and improving something very basic. A lightweight touchscreen rectangle is about as basic as it gets.
If Apple was a tire company, Lucy Koh just gave it the unearned "right" to patent every kind of tire tread imaginable.
[EDIT] -- Yes, I realize the decision was made by a jury. Firstly: The original case presented to her was a puff of smoke which should never have gone to trial in the first place. Secondly: Fast-tracking this case helped Apple (which had pre-prepared its mountain of baloney paperwork) and very much hurt Samsung (which understandably probably didn't have enough time to scramble and dispute every instance of baloney in the mountain of paperwork). Thirdly: Koh diallowed a key testimony: http://www.droiddog.com/android-blog/2012/08/judge-lucy-koh-... which would have helped the jury make a more informed decision.
We need Federal District Judges who are willing to work for the good of consumers, which involves protecting a market where competition can thrive.
Consumers benefit when there is more than one separate branch iterating outward and improving something very basic. A lightweight touchscreen rectangle is about as basic as it gets.
If Apple was a tire company, Lucy Koh just gave it the unearned "right" to patent every kind of tire tread imaginable.
[EDIT] -- Yes, I realize the decision was made by a jury. Firstly: The original case presented to her was a puff of smoke which should never have gone to trial in the first place. Secondly: Fast-tracking this case helped Apple (which had pre-prepared its mountain of baloney paperwork) and very much hurt Samsung (which understandably probably didn't have enough time to scramble and dispute every instance of baloney in the mountain of paperwork). Thirdly: Koh diallowed a key testimony: http://www.droiddog.com/android-blog/2012/08/judge-lucy-koh-... which would have helped the jury make a more informed decision.
The big winner, apart from Apple, is Microsoft. If you're a hardware manufacturer, your choices are
1. You go with Android and have both Apple and Microsoft come after you.
2. You go with Windows Phone.
I suspect the Windows Phone team is breaking open some champagne now.
1. You go with Android and have both Apple and Microsoft come after you.
2. You go with Windows Phone.
I suspect the Windows Phone team is breaking open some champagne now.
So lets look at some of the infringing patents that the news articles are quoting...
381 patent: "rubber band" effect where a page "bounces" when a user scrolls to the bottom
I personally had written JS bounce-back product picture slide-shows for a shopping cart in 2003/2004 using the horrible browser APIs of that era...wish I had patented that..1 billion..yum. I am quite certain hundreds of people have coded bounce-back animations before even iPhone 1.0.
915 patent: Pinch to Zoom. Isn't this the natural translation of how one drags handlebars in opposite directions in order to zoom-in ? I am quite certain there would be prior art by a lot of CAD software.
163 patent: "Double tap to enlarge/zoom". facepalm. Just about everyone does this on the PC using a mouse. How can one even file a patent for this ?
D '305 patent: "Grid of rounded square icons" -> The joke of the decade. What has every desktop OS being doing since the 90s ???
This is extremely upsetting. Is this what civilization is coming to ? If things continue this way, the working population of the world will be employed as patent lawyers squabbling all the time in courts.
381 patent: "rubber band" effect where a page "bounces" when a user scrolls to the bottom
I personally had written JS bounce-back product picture slide-shows for a shopping cart in 2003/2004 using the horrible browser APIs of that era...wish I had patented that..1 billion..yum. I am quite certain hundreds of people have coded bounce-back animations before even iPhone 1.0.
915 patent: Pinch to Zoom. Isn't this the natural translation of how one drags handlebars in opposite directions in order to zoom-in ? I am quite certain there would be prior art by a lot of CAD software.
163 patent: "Double tap to enlarge/zoom". facepalm. Just about everyone does this on the PC using a mouse. How can one even file a patent for this ?
D '305 patent: "Grid of rounded square icons" -> The joke of the decade. What has every desktop OS being doing since the 90s ???
This is extremely upsetting. Is this what civilization is coming to ? If things continue this way, the working population of the world will be employed as patent lawyers squabbling all the time in courts.
From: http://live.theverge.com/apple-samsung-verdict-live/
"No across the board. Not a single [patent] proven invalid by Samsung."
that's big.
edit: "Damages from Apple to Samsung: zero." (edit2: oops, dumb typo)
"No across the board. Not a single [patent] proven invalid by Samsung."
that's big.
edit: "Damages from Apple to Samsung: zero." (edit2: oops, dumb typo)
You know those 45% of HN readers that use a Mac?
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4422121
Time to start voting with your $$ against AAPL. They are part of the problem, not part of the innovation.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4422121
Time to start voting with your $$ against AAPL. They are part of the problem, not part of the innovation.
American patent system is weird. Why is it fair for someone to patent "what" you do, what should be fair to patent is "how" you make this thing viable (e.g. the algorithms used, or something like that)?
As long as you don't use the mechanisms of your competition, you should be allowed to mimic the features present on other competitors' devices.
Considering this, it seems clear that Samsung would lose the dispute anyway.
As long as you don't use the mechanisms of your competition, you should be allowed to mimic the features present on other competitors' devices.
Considering this, it seems clear that Samsung would lose the dispute anyway.
"It works like magic...far more accurate than any interface ever shipped... multi-finger gestures, and boy have we patented it!" Steve Jobs in 2007[1]
1. https://twitter.com/tconrad/status/239136435603652609
1. https://twitter.com/tconrad/status/239136435603652609
This isn't right.... This is a terrible day for fair competition.
No matter how you cut it, this whole trial was a loss for technology.
So basically this means that if you are an independent developer and make an app that displays a graph your finger could edit you have to pay Apple for Twenty years!!
So this means that appart from the 30% cut of the Apple store, most of your profits go to Apple or MS who are going to dedicate the money to buy more monopolies(patents).
Or alternatively the US system(where nobody works anymore, you could only survive in finance, marketing, law or politics) collapses from within and some other country take its place.
So this means that appart from the 30% cut of the Apple store, most of your profits go to Apple or MS who are going to dedicate the money to buy more monopolies(patents).
Or alternatively the US system(where nobody works anymore, you could only survive in finance, marketing, law or politics) collapses from within and some other country take its place.
Interestingly, TechCrunch (http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/24/hang-on-a-minute-jurors-awa...) reports that some of the damages awarded to Apple were awarded without finding any patent infringements. In other words, the jury's report was quite a bit sloppy (maybe rushed?). Anyway, undoubtedly this will all be appealed, and the case could turn any direction.
A personal question - what is the double tap to zoom patent all about? It hardly seems to me, personally that that should be patentable. Just as there's no way, Google should be able to patent something like 'double-click to zoom' on Google Maps.
A personal question - what is the double tap to zoom patent all about? It hardly seems to me, personally that that should be patentable. Just as there's no way, Google should be able to patent something like 'double-click to zoom' on Google Maps.
This would have been a great case for Jury Nullification and send a message about software patent laws.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification
What a joke! The jury rushed through this so quickly and uncaringly that there are glaring errors in their verdict. Look at the edit at the bottom of the article:
http://briefmobile.com/jury-comes-to-verdict-in-apple-vs-sam...
http://briefmobile.com/jury-comes-to-verdict-in-apple-vs-sam...
That's what you get from having lay people (with no training in either software development, UI design, etc) making decisions like this.
These patents are quite obviously ridiculous.
381 patent: "rubber band" effect 915 patent: Pinch to Zoom 163 patent: "Double tap to enlarge/zoom" D '305 patent: "Grid of rounded square icons"
This is supposed to be what sets off iPhones from competition?!
W.T.F.? How did we get to this?
I can see Dr. Evil saying "One Biiiillion Dollars".
These patents are quite obviously ridiculous.
381 patent: "rubber band" effect 915 patent: Pinch to Zoom 163 patent: "Double tap to enlarge/zoom" D '305 patent: "Grid of rounded square icons"
This is supposed to be what sets off iPhones from competition?!
W.T.F.? How did we get to this?
I can see Dr. Evil saying "One Biiiillion Dollars".
damages: 1.051 billion dollars. WOW.
http://live.theverge.com/apple-samsung-verdict-live/
http://live.theverge.com/apple-samsung-verdict-live/
Today Apple went down in history as the biggest patent-troll of all time, stiffling innovation and competition like nobody has ever done before.
If you are a software-developer you should recognize the fundamental threat which Apple represents to your profession.
Boycott Apple if you want to be able to stay in business in the long term future. Throw away your Macbooks, iPhones and iPads. Ditch your iTunes and iTunes account. Get rid of everything Apple. All of it.
Be vocal about your code of ethical software conduct and how that prohibits involving anything made by Apple into anything you ever do.
If you are a software-developer you should recognize the fundamental threat which Apple represents to your profession.
Boycott Apple if you want to be able to stay in business in the long term future. Throw away your Macbooks, iPhones and iPads. Ditch your iTunes and iTunes account. Get rid of everything Apple. All of it.
Be vocal about your code of ethical software conduct and how that prohibits involving anything made by Apple into anything you ever do.
Double tap to zoom, now, that's real innovation!
Judge rules Samsung owes Apple roughly one 'Instagram' in damages.
If you're a startup and even if you're philosophically opposed to software patents, think about hiring a good IP law firm and filing for your core IP. What these trials and massive licensing deals are showing that patents could make a world of difference to your options as a tech company.
I'm confused. How can it be that Apple supposedly infringes _none_ of Samsung's patents?
If nothing else, the fallout will be interesting to watch. The tablets didn't infringe though. Found that an interesting bit, just the phones.
I don't give two fucks about TouchWiz specific-stuff (in fact, this might encourage Android OEMs to stick with stock Android), but what impact will this have on stock Android? It would really suck to have to depend on 3rd party ROMs for things like pinch to zoom and tap to zoom because Google was forced to remove it from Android.
From now on we should call rotary dial phones the new Apple free smartphones.
goodbye innovation
I wonder if this will actually end up hurting Apple's bottom line in the end. Samsung is one of Apples largest hardware providers and one of the few that can produce screens of sufficient resolution for Apple's retina displays. Wouldn't be surprised if Samsung recoups their loses just by raising their hardware prices.
How does the verdict affect Samsung's ability to sell additional phones in the future?
and the end of Apple begins....
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that Samsung made their products to look like Apple products. They changed their icon styles and other UI elements away from Android standards to match the Apple style.
Some of the things Apple invented and patented on like pinch to zoom and so on Samsung used or copied via Android and or their own UI skin on top of Android.
You just have to look at Windows Phone 7 or Windows 8 or Web OS or Blackberry to realize that you don't have to copy Apple to make a good or great smartphone. Samsung is much closer with the Galaxy S3, too bad they are still cranking out iPad clones with the Galaxy Tab 10.1 and the like.