Update on Tuts+ Premium Security Breach(notes.envato.com)
notes.envato.com
Update on Tuts+ Premium Security Breach
http://notes.envato.com/news/tuts-premium-security-update/
7 comments
In of itself, the statement isn't incorrect though is it? Are you sighing because you believe the statement implies a poor hash function will be chosen?
It's not incorrect, but it's somewhat telling that such a massive vulnerability that they were fully aware of "has been running for a long time" and rather than fork over $179.95 for the new version of aMember which would have completely fixed the vulnerability, they chose instead to let the vulnerability remain while they embarked on a greenfield project to rewrite their membership system from scratch. This rewrite would take an indeterminate amount of time whereas they could have paid a paltry sum for the upgrade and implemented it in less than 48 hours... as they just did.
I get that it's a prioritization issue. I've worked at places where legacy software had poor security practices and it's often a judgment call as to the risk of just letting it be vs. taking the time to rewrite whatever insecure portion remained. Often the decision is to leave it when it's a one-off project that will be shut down within a month, there is a limited attack surface involved, and the data being stored insecurely is very low value. On the other hand, security issues affecting the very core of a website (the login system that 100% of a company's revenue depends on) should get addressed as soon as the vulnerability is discovered. Additionally, they state that a server was compromised... it's not clear whether this was a SQL injection exploit that happened to display the users table remotely with no privilege escalation, or whether the server was compromised via a poorly chosen SSH password or similar and they may be dealing with a situation where rogue code is still living on one or more servers.
I get that it's a prioritization issue. I've worked at places where legacy software had poor security practices and it's often a judgment call as to the risk of just letting it be vs. taking the time to rewrite whatever insecure portion remained. Often the decision is to leave it when it's a one-off project that will be shut down within a month, there is a limited attack surface involved, and the data being stored insecurely is very low value. On the other hand, security issues affecting the very core of a website (the login system that 100% of a company's revenue depends on) should get addressed as soon as the vulnerability is discovered. Additionally, they state that a server was compromised... it's not clear whether this was a SQL injection exploit that happened to display the users table remotely with no privilege escalation, or whether the server was compromised via a poorly chosen SSH password or similar and they may be dealing with a situation where rogue code is still living on one or more servers.
Do you happen to know what the new version of aMember uses for password hashing?
I saw some mentions of MD5 in forums and some handwaving about how other scripts use custom password security, but nothing definitive.
We looked at aMember for a project several years ago, before we switched to Django for all our development so I haven't kept up on what is available security-wise on PHP.
I saw some mentions of MD5 in forums and some handwaving about how other scripts use custom password security, but nothing definitive.
We looked at aMember for a project several years ago, before we switched to Django for all our development so I haven't kept up on what is available security-wise on PHP.
The Envato post says the passwords will be individually hashed and salted. The aMember forum has a few more details:
4.1.3 release: http://www.amember.com/forum/threads/amember-pro-version-4-1... states "Removed user.pass variable from email templates. Plain text password in not available anymore."
4.1.6 release: http://www.amember.com/forum/threads/amember-pro-version-4-1... states "Closes #448 - and do not save md5 passwords at all".
User issue: http://www.amember.com/forum/threads/urgent-amember-v4-1-12-... "Unfortunately, in the email received by customers, the password comes out encrypted like $P$BkTNDykCkTfsOqHwsV4TT2/"
The hash format indicates it's using PHPass: http://cvsweb.openwall.com/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/projects/phpass/Pa... which is based on MD5, but with the log of the number of rounds indicated by the first character after the $P$ prefix. In the forum example, it's "B" which is 11 making it 2^11 rounds. The remainder is an 8 character salt plus checksum. PHPass is authored by "Solar Designer" or Alexander Peslyak, also the author of John the Ripper and respected in the security community: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Peslyak so is likely pretty solid.
4.1.3 release: http://www.amember.com/forum/threads/amember-pro-version-4-1... states "Removed user.pass variable from email templates. Plain text password in not available anymore."
4.1.6 release: http://www.amember.com/forum/threads/amember-pro-version-4-1... states "Closes #448 - and do not save md5 passwords at all".
User issue: http://www.amember.com/forum/threads/urgent-amember-v4-1-12-... "Unfortunately, in the email received by customers, the password comes out encrypted like $P$BkTNDykCkTfsOqHwsV4TT2/"
The hash format indicates it's using PHPass: http://cvsweb.openwall.com/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/projects/phpass/Pa... which is based on MD5, but with the log of the number of rounds indicated by the first character after the $P$ prefix. In the forum example, it's "B" which is 11 making it 2^11 rounds. The remainder is an 8 character salt plus checksum. PHPass is authored by "Solar Designer" or Alexander Peslyak, also the author of John the Ripper and respected in the security community: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Peslyak so is likely pretty solid.
Solar Designer is great. Here's what his PHPass page says:
The preferred (most secure) hashing method supported by phpass is the OpenBSD-style Blowfish-based bcrypt, also supported with our public domain crypt_blowfish package (for C applications), and known in PHP as CRYPT_BLOWFISH, with a fallback to BSDI-style extended DES-based hashes, known in PHP as CRYPT_EXT_DES, and a last resort fallback to MD5-based salted and variable iteration count password hashes implemented in phpass itself (also referred to as portable hashes).
To ensure that the fallbacks will never occur, PHP 5.3.0+ or the Suhosin patch may be used. PHP 5.3.0+ and Suhosin integrate crypt_blowfish into the PHP interpreter such that bcrypt is available for use by PHP scripts even if the host system lacks support for it.
The preferred (most secure) hashing method supported by phpass is the OpenBSD-style Blowfish-based bcrypt, also supported with our public domain crypt_blowfish package (for C applications), and known in PHP as CRYPT_BLOWFISH, with a fallback to BSDI-style extended DES-based hashes, known in PHP as CRYPT_EXT_DES, and a last resort fallback to MD5-based salted and variable iteration count password hashes implemented in phpass itself (also referred to as portable hashes).
To ensure that the fallbacks will never occur, PHP 5.3.0+ or the Suhosin patch may be used. PHP 5.3.0+ and Suhosin integrate crypt_blowfish into the PHP interpreter such that bcrypt is available for use by PHP scripts even if the host system lacks support for it.
Individually salted passwords will store the salt right next to the password and hash in the database. Then, when the database gets downloaded (which is presumably what happened), then the attacker can buy one of those new fangled Radeon cards and unsalt the stored hash and try passwords at the rate of hundreds of millions per second. Salting will not measurably slow this process down.
Salting prevents effective use of rainbow tables. It does not protect against brute force attacks, which are now incredibly cheap.
Individually salting passwords was best practice internet eons ago, not now.
Best practice is to use a work-adjustable scheme such as provided by bcrypt.
Salting prevents effective use of rainbow tables. It does not protect against brute force attacks, which are now incredibly cheap.
Individually salting passwords was best practice internet eons ago, not now.
Best practice is to use a work-adjustable scheme such as provided by bcrypt.
But salting is also fundamental in bcrypt. Using an function with adjustable work factor doesn't mean salting is not a good idea. Any cryptologic hash people will mention as a best practice will generally have the notion of salting built-in.
Virtually no-one implements bcrypt themselves. If you use a bcrypt library, you don't need to think about salting. Therefore, when someone says "they're using individually salted passwords", you can usually count on the fact that they're using a crappy password hash, but that they think they're doing something cryptographically sophisticated.
Not really related, but the popular python library for bcrypt kind of does make you have to think about salting. (And it has some other, er, 'curious' design decisions as well)
http://www.mindrot.org/projects/py-bcrypt/
http://www.mindrot.org/projects/py-bcrypt/
So does popular ones for .NET, Java, JavaScript.. I haven't seen one where the work factor is explicitly set in the homepage example yet, though.
When there's a high-speed bcrypt cracker we will have to stop using bcrypt. Until then the cost of cracking bcrypt is too high to make it practical.
SHA1 and MD5 are trivial to crack as there are many OpenCL implementations made specifically to crack salted passwords.
SHA1 and MD5 are trivial to crack as there are many OpenCL implementations made specifically to crack salted passwords.
Well, the point of an adaptable work factor is that you can keep increasing the cost to generate the hash. The aim is for bcrypt is to be able beat Moore's law, not just be a short-term stop gap.
They were running a database with clear text passwords, in my opinion, their vague statements should get a pessimistic reading.
NetTuts needs to mention which key derivation function they are using so the community can verify they didn't fuck up again.
I would also recommend that they use this opporunity to teach their web developing users about proper password storage, but after reading their php hashing tutorial[1], I think it's best if their users look elsewhere. The tutorial eventually recommends bcrypt after listing multiple unsafe solutions. I understand that the author is trying to build up to the solution, but the correct solution needs to be in the first paragraph. The incorrect solutions need to be clearly flagged so a beginner skimming through doesn't see "md5" and stop.
[1] http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/php/understanding-hash-fun...
I would also recommend that they use this opporunity to teach their web developing users about proper password storage, but after reading their php hashing tutorial[1], I think it's best if their users look elsewhere. The tutorial eventually recommends bcrypt after listing multiple unsafe solutions. I understand that the author is trying to build up to the solution, but the correct solution needs to be in the first paragraph. The incorrect solutions need to be clearly flagged so a beginner skimming through doesn't see "md5" and stop.
[1] http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/php/understanding-hash-fun...
There's no real way to 'verify' this. They would have to provide the source code in its entirety and several card-carrying, certified cryptanalysts/cryptographers would have to vet it and then publicly approve of it. That will never happen.
Users have to have some level of trust. Like everything else in life.
Users have to have some level of trust. Like everything else in life.
If they use a well-maintained standard library which uses a modern cryptographic hashing function, then I think they earn that trust.
There is no real disadvantage to saying which one and a lot of trust to regain.
There is no real disadvantage to saying which one and a lot of trust to regain.
Absolute verification is impossible, but this doesn't mean more verification isn't helpful. NetTuts should publicly says what key derivation function they are using. Could they be lying? Maybe. Could they have other security vulnerabilities? Probably. Would I trust NetTuts with my credit card number? No.
> I should also note that aMember had in the meantime released an upgrade to their service which deals with the issue, though an upgrade with our heavily modified system was a significant endeavour.
In the previous blog post:
> Our current Tuts+ Premium app makes use of a third party plugin that unfortunately stores passwords in cleartext (i.e. unencrypted).
The previous post sounded like they were too lazy to change the authentication system to a more secure one. But they now said they had a "heavily modified system".
> I’d like to take a moment to be clear that this wasn’t a failure of, or a reflection of, the professionalism and integrity of our development or Tuts+ teams.
I think any capable developer should find it easier to add BCrypt into the password field than the heavy modifications. Once they are familiar enough with the plugin (for heavy modifications), it shouldn't take more than a day to make it secure.
In the previous blog post:
> Our current Tuts+ Premium app makes use of a third party plugin that unfortunately stores passwords in cleartext (i.e. unencrypted).
The previous post sounded like they were too lazy to change the authentication system to a more secure one. But they now said they had a "heavily modified system".
> I’d like to take a moment to be clear that this wasn’t a failure of, or a reflection of, the professionalism and integrity of our development or Tuts+ teams.
I think any capable developer should find it easier to add BCrypt into the password field than the heavy modifications. Once they are familiar enough with the plugin (for heavy modifications), it shouldn't take more than a day to make it secure.
this wasn’t a failure of, or a reflection of, the professionalism and integrity of our development or Tuts+ teams.
How is it not? There is NO excuse for storing passwords in plaintext, on any production site. From what I've read, they had this system in place for a while, and planned "to get around to" switching to a more secure password storage method eventually.
Sadly, it looks like a massive security breach was the catalyst they needed to realize that you can't put issues like user password security on the backburner.
Now, we get the same reactive "we're sorry, we should have known better" from the tuts+ leadership, and a promise that things will be better in the future. Why does it always take a humiliating security breach for companies like this to realize just how important user security, and by extension, your users' trust, really is?
How is it not? There is NO excuse for storing passwords in plaintext, on any production site. From what I've read, they had this system in place for a while, and planned "to get around to" switching to a more secure password storage method eventually.
Sadly, it looks like a massive security breach was the catalyst they needed to realize that you can't put issues like user password security on the backburner.
Now, we get the same reactive "we're sorry, we should have known better" from the tuts+ leadership, and a promise that things will be better in the future. Why does it always take a humiliating security breach for companies like this to realize just how important user security, and by extension, your users' trust, really is?
If the team came to him and said, "Mr CEO, we have this glaring security problem we want to fix", and then Mr CEO replied, "We have other, higher priority things to work on right now, so no, please do not fix that."
We already know they didn't write it, but we don't have enough other information to make any other judgements (and the blog post at least implies the above may have happened).
We already know they didn't write it, but we don't have enough other information to make any other judgements (and the blog post at least implies the above may have happened).
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i fail to understand how any decent web company does not at the very minimum hash passwords in this day and age. More importantly - a company who teaches people coding and often runs 'best practices for XXXX courses' each month.
At least give it to them for being straight forward and honest. Yes, they screwed up, but so have a lot of other companies that in my opinion hold much much more sensitive data about me.
Not saying it's right for them to not take security as serious as they should have, but unlike a lot of other companies, they disclosed it immediately, came up with a game plan, apologized multiple times and are refunding users and offering others free stuff.
I've changed my password on the other envato services I use as a just in case and I still plan on using them in the future. They've always put together great and in-depth tutorials and are a great resource for beginners, hackers and experts.
Not saying it's right for them to not take security as serious as they should have, but unlike a lot of other companies, they disclosed it immediately, came up with a game plan, apologized multiple times and are refunding users and offering others free stuff.
I've changed my password on the other envato services I use as a just in case and I still plan on using them in the future. They've always put together great and in-depth tutorials and are a great resource for beginners, hackers and experts.
Sigh.