Hunting For A Tech Job In Silicon Valley(ongig.com)
ongig.com
Hunting For A Tech Job In Silicon Valley
http://ongig.com/blog/hiring/an-irish-blog-hunting-for-a-tech-job-in-silicon-valley
47 comments
"Or, if you're opposed to networking (which seems oddly common among engineers), put on a T-shirt which says "I am looking for an engineering job. Previous work experience: Google" and walk down Castro during lunch hour. You'll probably get three offers."
Yeah, except he didn't do engineering at Google -- he was a "data quality evaluator" contract employee. He's also looking for a position in "quality assurance, data analytics, total quality management [or] desktop support". He also never mentions code, engineering, or another hard technical skill.
That's not to criticize the guy or take away from his accomplishments -- he could be a great potential employee. But just because someone worked at Google doesn't automatically make them a gold-nugget hire. There are a lot of people at Google who are doing grunt work. Even in an exceptional job market, I'd hope that people aren't being interviewed simply because they have "Google" on their resume without regard for context.
Yeah, except he didn't do engineering at Google -- he was a "data quality evaluator" contract employee. He's also looking for a position in "quality assurance, data analytics, total quality management [or] desktop support". He also never mentions code, engineering, or another hard technical skill.
That's not to criticize the guy or take away from his accomplishments -- he could be a great potential employee. But just because someone worked at Google doesn't automatically make them a gold-nugget hire. There are a lot of people at Google who are doing grunt work. Even in an exceptional job market, I'd hope that people aren't being interviewed simply because they have "Google" on their resume without regard for context.
Even easier than coffee dates: email [email protected], and I'll sic three great recruiters on you. They've already had coffee with the people with hiring authority, they won't send you crappy jobs, and they get paid based on how much you get paid, so they'll make sure that amount is high. I just did this and finished a job search in 2 weeks, ending up working for my long-term heroes at a great salary.
I was looking for a job in the Bay Area in September (similar situation, non-US citizen). I never used a "job search" site, though, I just researched companies I was interested in and applied through their sites. This worked out fine... most places replied quite quickly to my application. I don't really see any advantage to using a site like Monster.com. If I haven't heard of a company, I probably don't want to work there.
This is sound advice, forget the big job boards, write companies directly. People love hearing a sincere email about why you want to work at their company. Set yourself apart by doing a little research and it will pay off big time.
Besides, many good jobs are not even listed on the big job boards.
Besides, many good jobs are not even listed on the big job boards.
I just concluded a job search, and found that writing sincere emails did indeed establish a positive rapport, but 1) job-seeking engineers are already universally adored and 2) the recipient of the email will need to be herded, because their primary job is not making sure you get hired.
Recruiters, guys. Do you know there is a whole class of people that will work full-time to bring you whatever jobs you want? Why am I the only one mentioning them in this thread?
Recruiters, guys. Do you know there is a whole class of people that will work full-time to bring you whatever jobs you want? Why am I the only one mentioning them in this thread?
Why am I the only one mentioning them in this thread?
Because most recruiters are ignorant incompetents, or at least most of the interactions that potential recruitess have are with ignorant incompetents. If you want a longer, more involved version of this look at Peroni's comment history, (formerly KoZeN).
http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=Peroni
Because most recruiters are ignorant incompetents, or at least most of the interactions that potential recruitess have are with ignorant incompetents. If you want a longer, more involved version of this look at Peroni's comment history, (formerly KoZeN).
http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=Peroni
Recruiters mainly make the HR and/or management folks happy not necessarily the IT guys you'll working with. If you're a good candidate, they only do lots of work for you because they can land a better bonus.
This is all great advice. It's nice to hear some feedback from IT guys who have recently been job hunting in the Bay Area.
For all you guys targeting startups, do you have a recommended location for finding them? There are plenty of amazing startups around that I have never heard of. I feel like I just don't have the time to keep up or am unaware of some magic resource that some of you must have.
I am mostly curious about companies specific to the bay area but a larger scope would certainly be welcome.
I am mostly curious about companies specific to the bay area but a larger scope would certainly be welcome.
Pro-tip: check out Crunchbase (http://www.crunchbase.com), and look through all the recently funded companies (http://www.crunchbase.com/funding-rounds?page=1). These are startups that are pretty much all hiring-- one of the primary reasons startups raise money is to ramp up their team and scale growth.
If you are involved in the startup scene (attend meetups, read HN, have other friends involved in startups, etc) you soon know what startups are around.
If the Internet is just "Facebook" + "Google" to you then, sure you're missing out but by just posting to HN I'm guessing that isn't your world.
If you mean super early startups (and be mindful that there are plenty of reasons not to be the first employee at an unfunded/newly funded startup) then Angel List is probably the "magic resource" you are aspiring for.
If the Internet is just "Facebook" + "Google" to you then, sure you're missing out but by just posting to HN I'm guessing that isn't your world.
If you mean super early startups (and be mindful that there are plenty of reasons not to be the first employee at an unfunded/newly funded startup) then Angel List is probably the "magic resource" you are aspiring for.
Tech meetups are a goldmine if you're interested in startups. Maybe you won't find employees from the startup itself there but if you interested in say, erlang, and go to an erlang meetup you can very easily ask people there if they've heard of any interesting erlang startups. You'll probably find some people who will say something along the lines of oh yeah, I recently heard about company x who's doing y, it sounds pretty interesting actually.
Then you can do some research on company x and try to get in touch with someone there.
Then you can do some research on company x and try to get in touch with someone there.
Great advice guys. Thanks a million.
I've been doing the same and it works quite well if you are targeting startups. I've had a 50% response rate so far.
Would second this. I'm from Scotland and moved here in October for a job. Got a very good response from targeting startup companies directly.
A 50% response rate is promising. Perhaps the most infuriating aspect of job hunting thus far is the lack of feedback from job applications. Espcially on the big job search sites. As a result of the comments from you guys I am definitely going to change tack. It seems like targeting startups here in the area is the way to go.
You can get an even higher response rate by looking at the monthly "Who's Hiring" threads on HN. When I graduated from college, everybody back home was telling me that getting a job in this economy would be a terrible, several-month-long ordeal. It actually turned out to be pretty quick and straightforward, and I'm very happy with the results.
I shit you not -- if you are in San Francisco I can take you out partying and you'll have a job you love the next day <-- this is how retarded easy it is to get a software job in this city -- EVERYONE is hiring
It's odd. All these businesses are fighting over a small amount of talent. Why not just have a remote office in San Francisco and focus development elsewhere in the country?
This happens a lot with agencies, where they locate their sales, marketing, even designers in say New York or London, meanwhile the bulk of the company is elsewhere - in locations with high unemployment and lots of developers.
In those areas you might have 20, 30, maybe 40 developers all applying for a single position.
This happens a lot with agencies, where they locate their sales, marketing, even designers in say New York or London, meanwhile the bulk of the company is elsewhere - in locations with high unemployment and lots of developers.
In those areas you might have 20, 30, maybe 40 developers all applying for a single position.
Because the valuations you would get headquartered in Silicon Valley seem to be far higher than you would get elsewhere.
I've built up a (profitable) tech startup in Canada in the last few years, and get valuations in the range of 20 times earnings or 2 times revenue. Respectable compared to the S&P 500, but laughable compared to what seems to be the norm in the valley (or at least what seems to be the norm based on what I read here)
Not that i'm complaining, i love canada, but something to consider.
I've built up a (profitable) tech startup in Canada in the last few years, and get valuations in the range of 20 times earnings or 2 times revenue. Respectable compared to the S&P 500, but laughable compared to what seems to be the norm in the valley (or at least what seems to be the norm based on what I read here)
Not that i'm complaining, i love canada, but something to consider.
any developer openings?
Why have your developers in San Francisco? Because software devs want to work around other software devs. It's an exciting town to be in if you work in software, and lots of developers want to move out here. It's hard to say the same for towns with high unemployment like Cleveland or Detroit.
...locations with high unemployment and lots of developers
So the job interview would take place during the "partying" and you will end up with what we old-timers like to call "competitive" salary?
Hey guys, thanks for all the responses to my blog. Some sound advice that I will definitely take on board. The idea of targeting IT startups is something that I will get onto asap. I set up a linkedIn profile shortly after arrival as it seems to be one of the biggest and most used methods on networking here in the U.S.Here is the link if any of you are interested; http://www.linkedin.com/pub/mervyn-fealy/42/a28/388 . Feel free to connect with me on there.
In the Bay Area, high tech jobs hunt you (at least right now). Fill in your LinkedIn profile like the first comment suggests, build your reputation (GitHub, StackOverflow) and you'll start getting approached by recruiters.
If you want recruiters, just call them. You need a linkedin or a resume, but the other steps are more useful to employers. (You can also email me, [email protected] -- I just worked with seven in my job search, and can pass on the three I recommend.)
I've been avoiding recruiters due to past bad experiences. Do you mind the strangers of the internet asking for your recommendations?
I doubt I am the only one who is curious if you don't mind some unsolicited emails.
I doubt I am the only one who is curious if you don't mind some unsolicited emails.
I'm just now at the point where I refuse resumes and calls from recruiters.
It'd be better to figure out companies you want to work for and figure out how to get in touch.
It'd be better to figure out companies you want to work for and figure out how to get in touch.
I've been very deliberately lowering my profile just to get some peace.
Which means nuking most of the content on my LinkedIn account. Seems to have slowed the tide modestly.
Which means nuking most of the content on my LinkedIn account. Seems to have slowed the tide modestly.
I actually have a pretty similar situation. I am Irish, living in California after just finishing up in Dublin City University (I was probably one of Mervyn's lab tutors at some point!) and I'm also on the J1 visa.
The difference is that I found a job before I left Ireland (made the visa application a lot easier). I responded to a post on the "Who's Hiring?" thread here on HN a few months back and landed a gig in an awesome startup in Los Angeles called Factual.
HN is a truly invaluable resource for job hunting.
The difference is that I found a job before I left Ireland (made the visa application a lot easier). I responded to a post on the "Who's Hiring?" thread here on HN a few months back and landed a gig in an awesome startup in Los Angeles called Factual.
HN is a truly invaluable resource for job hunting.
That's very interesting. I reckon I might have benifited from your tutelage at some point. I am definitely going to use HN as a resource for job seeking. Appreciate the feedback. How are you enjoying life in LA?
careers.stackoverflow.com, and the monthly HN "who's hiring" post.
Appreciate the advice!
Just wanted to use this opportunity to tell everyone; I setup an experimental web site at http://www.jobrupt.com to help people challenge the companies to create or open a job position for them by telling how they can add value. Would love to see that it will be useful to at least one person on earth. Except the design which sucks, I would like to hear if that will at all be useful to anyone or how to modify it to make it useful.
That's a great idea for a website. It could be potentially very useful for job seekers in my situation. It would be interesting to hear what companies feedback is on this type of contact.
Instead of hitting the pavement digitally, might I suggest mainly browsing the websites of startups, checking here on HN (HelloFax for example is hiring!), and then going to every event/meeting you can slide your way into. I think that would pay off a ton more than any job posting site.
Thanks for the feedback on my blog. Appreciate the advice!
Cool stuff, I'm thinking of doing my internship over there (CS major from Holland) so I'll be following this!
[deleted]
protip: pick keywords for the tech stack you want to work in, whether {.net, java, ios/android, web:{rails,django,node,js,html5}}. Hook up if this then that (http://ifttt.com ) to your google talk account. Every 15 minutes it will poll craigslist jobs looking for your keywords then im to your google talk account; it's wonderful. I think they also support email endpoints and maybe rss.
that's fine if you want to go work at half pay...cragislist is one of the worst sites when it comes to cheapskates
I skimmed this, but then I saw Madison, WI jump out. Here's a warning: I'd bet $100 the company was Epic Systems. They're a godawful employer [1]. Please please please think multiple times and talk to previous employees before accepting a job there. They're infamous for hiring devs on h1bs, refusing to sponsor them for a green card, and working their asses off while paying as little as possible and well under market. They also use, at least last time I checked, the world's shittiest tech stack: tens of millions of lines of vb6 and maybe 30-50MM lines of M/cachescript/mumps. The world's shittiest language by a damn long shot [2:4]. Undocumented and non unit tested (last I heard), though they do hire, at least when I was there, one full time tester for every two devs. At first you'll think wow -- they're dedicated to quality! No, that's just the minimum it takes to make barely usable software there.
The other downside to their antiquated tech stack is after putting in a couple years there, you will still have no marketable skills because you'll be the same as a brand new dev straight out of school. Everyone else will have two years in on either the .net or the java or the web (rails/django/node/html5) or the ios/android tech stacks. You'll still be starting at ground zero.
Further, my best guess is their devs have something like 25-35% annual turnover. That is not a joke. The best part is if you try to leave, your ass will be stuck in Madison WI. There's really not that many tech companies there so you'll have to relocate. They'll brag about paid sabbaticals after 5 years. So few people last that long I'd bet it's one of the cheapest benefits they have.
Finally, they have a comprehensive NDA/noncompete and since it's Wisconsin, it's very enforceable and they can and do aggressively enforce it.
Just don't do it. If you poke around the internet even a bit you'll see legions of disgruntled ex employees.
I could go on; they have this theory that anyone can be trained to code so your interview is pretty much just your gpa. They then put you through a 1-3 month internal bootcamp to train you to code. You can, um, imagine the sort of code this churns out...
See also [5:6].
[1] http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Epic-Systems-Corporation-Re...
[2] http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/p/2417/60874.aspx#60874
[3] http://thedailywtf.com/comments/A_Case_of_the_MUMPS.aspx
[4] http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/p/2402/60158.aspx#60158
[5] http://www.indeed.com/forum/cmp/Epic-Systems/Epic-Systems-Sa...
[6] http://epic-systems-rant.blogspot.com/
The other downside to their antiquated tech stack is after putting in a couple years there, you will still have no marketable skills because you'll be the same as a brand new dev straight out of school. Everyone else will have two years in on either the .net or the java or the web (rails/django/node/html5) or the ios/android tech stacks. You'll still be starting at ground zero.
Further, my best guess is their devs have something like 25-35% annual turnover. That is not a joke. The best part is if you try to leave, your ass will be stuck in Madison WI. There's really not that many tech companies there so you'll have to relocate. They'll brag about paid sabbaticals after 5 years. So few people last that long I'd bet it's one of the cheapest benefits they have.
Finally, they have a comprehensive NDA/noncompete and since it's Wisconsin, it's very enforceable and they can and do aggressively enforce it.
Just don't do it. If you poke around the internet even a bit you'll see legions of disgruntled ex employees.
I could go on; they have this theory that anyone can be trained to code so your interview is pretty much just your gpa. They then put you through a 1-3 month internal bootcamp to train you to code. You can, um, imagine the sort of code this churns out...
See also [5:6].
[1] http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Epic-Systems-Corporation-Re...
[2] http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/p/2417/60874.aspx#60874
[3] http://thedailywtf.com/comments/A_Case_of_the_MUMPS.aspx
[4] http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/p/2402/60158.aspx#60158
[5] http://www.indeed.com/forum/cmp/Epic-Systems/Epic-Systems-Sa...
[6] http://epic-systems-rant.blogspot.com/
yeah, every company should be checked on glassdoor....will let you know if it's a company that's a slave driver, or if they are pay below market rates or if they expect you to work long hours
You just won $100. The company that approached me was Epic Systems! It's disgraceful that this type of a company can operate and use talented IT graduates so badly. The amount of negative sentiment from former employees is astounding. Whilst I would not currently consider the idea of relocating to Madison you've included some great advice in your post. I will research these types of offers a lot more thoroughly in the future. I appreciate your feedback.
Sounds like they have a similar management style to Cerner in Kansas City.
Draw a rectangle, where one side is the number of people with hiring authority you've had coffee with recently and the other side is your attractiveness as a candidate. As the area of the rectangle gets bigger, the number of job offers you get will increase. (And, if you're savvy about it, the attractiveness of them will as well.)
If you already have Google on your resume, increasing your attractiveness as a candidate is probably not as good ROI as lining up more coffee dates. They are really easy to arrange: start by knowing at least one person in Silicon Valley who has hiring authority. (Your local Internet has a few hundred options.) Ask for introductions.
The custom is for a short two-line email: "Hey Bob, meet Dave. Dave is a smart chap, he previously worked at Google. You guys should get in touch." Dave then sends Bob an email inviting him to get coffee. (There are other options: lunch and dinner work, too, but asking someone to coffee is basically the smallest imposition you could possibly make which still gets you face time and you want face time.)
Or, if you're opposed to networking (which seems oddly common among engineers), put on a T-shirt which says "I am looking for an engineering job. Previous work experience: Google" and walk down Castro during lunch hour. You'll probably get three offers.