Ask HN: I'm an unknown indie developer. How can I promote my web app?
9 comments
In a C4 talk a few years ago, Wil Shipley said that he's asked things like "How can I launch my app to 10,000 people on day one?". The answer is "Well, you can't."
If you haven't put the time into creating a reputation (either for yourself or for your product) and getting people excited about your next release, you aren't going to suddenly find yourself able to tap into a nonexistent audience.
What you can do is grow your reputation by creating great products and growing a community of people who are interested. Launch to a hundred people, and don't be disappointed that you're not a hit by next Tuesday. Overnight success stories are rare, and almost always backed by years of hard work. There's no secret website that you have to submit to and people will suddenly start using your product.
You'll gain users over time. At least in my experience, now is the best time for iteration. You've only got a few users, and you can actually interact with them as people, not just statistics.
If you haven't put the time into creating a reputation (either for yourself or for your product) and getting people excited about your next release, you aren't going to suddenly find yourself able to tap into a nonexistent audience.
What you can do is grow your reputation by creating great products and growing a community of people who are interested. Launch to a hundred people, and don't be disappointed that you're not a hit by next Tuesday. Overnight success stories are rare, and almost always backed by years of hard work. There's no secret website that you have to submit to and people will suddenly start using your product.
You'll gain users over time. At least in my experience, now is the best time for iteration. You've only got a few users, and you can actually interact with them as people, not just statistics.
Some ideas / thoughts:
On viewing your site, my first thought was why am I being prompted to log in? I've just landed, the first thing I want to do is find my feet.
I suggest maybe put a recently submitted playlist to the right of the main page. Then have a dialogue with a button with something like 'create playlist' to left.
Allow people to create playlists anonymously if they want - then give them the ability to share it. That might encourage some people to stay on your site and generate content who otherwise may have left. I know you're aiming for social, but how about the ability for people (logged in) to vote up / down playlists being the more social aspect?
Having names / titles for playlists as well, that way someone is likely to create more than one and give them proper labels that people can use in rating them.
I'll be honest, I don't think I can picture myself using this app as is. If I want to share a song with people I know I'll likely send a link in an IM or put it in facebook.
As you're probably aware of, there are plenty of places which do the whole music + social aspect already, so why should I use your service? How is it different and more worthwhile than simply sharing links on facebook / twitter? These are the kinds of important questions I'd ask myself.
I think your application does have potential though. I'd say worry less about number of users or level feedback you have and more about the product you're creating at this early stage. The important thing is to keep doing stuff - keep adding features and refining it.
On viewing your site, my first thought was why am I being prompted to log in? I've just landed, the first thing I want to do is find my feet.
I suggest maybe put a recently submitted playlist to the right of the main page. Then have a dialogue with a button with something like 'create playlist' to left.
Allow people to create playlists anonymously if they want - then give them the ability to share it. That might encourage some people to stay on your site and generate content who otherwise may have left. I know you're aiming for social, but how about the ability for people (logged in) to vote up / down playlists being the more social aspect?
Having names / titles for playlists as well, that way someone is likely to create more than one and give them proper labels that people can use in rating them.
I'll be honest, I don't think I can picture myself using this app as is. If I want to share a song with people I know I'll likely send a link in an IM or put it in facebook.
As you're probably aware of, there are plenty of places which do the whole music + social aspect already, so why should I use your service? How is it different and more worthwhile than simply sharing links on facebook / twitter? These are the kinds of important questions I'd ask myself.
I think your application does have potential though. I'd say worry less about number of users or level feedback you have and more about the product you're creating at this early stage. The important thing is to keep doing stuff - keep adding features and refining it.
The login thing is also what made me immediately close the tab last time I checked this website out. (He submitted it sometime earlier this week or last.) I just wanted to take a stroll around the site, see what's up, get carded at the door.
I tried your app and liked it. But there is no way to get in contact with you easily. Try to offer a simple contact form to send in feedback. And - I can't believe I am saying that - make it visibly beta.
Because I would really like to use grapevin but have run into some technical problems. First, if I add a track I do not get any feedback of it's addition when using the latest non-beta Firefox. Secondly, if I click a song from the "Edit Playlist" page it will always play the first one and not the one I clicked. Before you do any extensions test your app extensivly. It will help spread the word when more user are satisfied with the service.
The next step in my opinion would be to include more music sources, of course. There is already a lot that is recognized. You might want to consider displaying a different "Missing cover" grafic when the song is available from Grooveshark, though. For example "Das Racist - You Oughta Know" does not show a cover but has the song. While when putting in an unknown German band it displayed the same icon. One always has to check his live page if a song can be played or not.
In my opinion, if you get the feedback function up and do not have any financial targets, it's best to let it grow on it's own.
Because I would really like to use grapevin but have run into some technical problems. First, if I add a track I do not get any feedback of it's addition when using the latest non-beta Firefox. Secondly, if I click a song from the "Edit Playlist" page it will always play the first one and not the one I clicked. Before you do any extensions test your app extensivly. It will help spread the word when more user are satisfied with the service.
The next step in my opinion would be to include more music sources, of course. There is already a lot that is recognized. You might want to consider displaying a different "Missing cover" grafic when the song is available from Grooveshark, though. For example "Das Racist - You Oughta Know" does not show a cover but has the song. While when putting in an unknown German band it displayed the same icon. One always has to check his live page if a song can be played or not.
In my opinion, if you get the feedback function up and do not have any financial targets, it's best to let it grow on it's own.
I actually like this site quite a bit. I use Grooveshark all the time and find it difficult to "explore" new music on it. Perhaps if this site makes that easier then I will use it often.
Also, perhaps some form auto complete suggestions as you type in a song name to add to your playlist?
Right now, though, it doesn't really seem to offer anything that Grooveshark itself doesn't.
Also, perhaps some form auto complete suggestions as you type in a song name to add to your playlist?
Right now, though, it doesn't really seem to offer anything that Grooveshark itself doesn't.
+1 on the auto complete. I don't know Grooveshark all that well. I'm still unsure how to create my playlist... so I type the title of the song? How does it work?
I would go where Grooveshark users are. Find who they are and reach to them. Use twitter search and other social monitoring tools to find them. http://lithium.com has got a good social monitoring tool you can use free for 14 days. Should be plenty of time for you to find enough of them.
Once you found them, ask them if they would part take into grapev.in mavens. Tell them you are looking for feedback from heavy grooveshark users and in return they will be the only ones with early access to some grapev.in features.
Create them a special account, give them a place where they can connect to each other. Make them super fans by iterating and get to market fit with them.
They will evangelize your product for you - sounds like a good starting point.
Once you found them, ask them if they would part take into grapev.in mavens. Tell them you are looking for feedback from heavy grooveshark users and in return they will be the only ones with early access to some grapev.in features.
Create them a special account, give them a place where they can connect to each other. Make them super fans by iterating and get to market fit with them.
They will evangelize your product for you - sounds like a good starting point.
Well, I'm not an expert or anything so don't take my comments toooo seriously; but the first thing I noticed was that it doesn't look like there's anyway to use your app without signing in via Facebook or Twitter. I'm not likely to do that, especially for an unknown application. I understand it's a social app, so there are good reasons to link it with FB and Twitter, but it would be nice to bypass the signin part in order to see what it's like and whether I like it before committing to a connection with FB/Twitter. Maybe I missed that option, but if so, it wasn't an obvious one.
The point of my comment, I guess, is that if you want more feedback and awareness, maybe you need to make it more accessible?
The point of my comment, I guess, is that if you want more feedback and awareness, maybe you need to make it more accessible?
I really like this. I'm actually using it now. Could you not join Facebook Groups and start 'talking' about your website? For example, join some music lovin' group and mention it... or even get in touch with the owners/admins and ask to "affiliate".
Those are just random thoughts, I'm in the same boat as you. :) Good luck!
EDIT: Signed up and everything, but I like to listen to other peoples playlists, however if I'm signed in, I can't find any, because it redirects me to /me and that feature is on the main page ...
Those are just random thoughts, I'm in the same boat as you. :) Good luck!
EDIT: Signed up and everything, but I like to listen to other peoples playlists, however if I'm signed in, I can't find any, because it redirects me to /me and that feature is on the main page ...
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Breaking off on a tangent here, but for some reason, I cannot get any of the features on the website to work. The added songs don't play (No Song Found), the change URL function breaks the site. When I click on the URL below Share your Playlist, a new tab opens up with a new playlist URL. (I'm on Chrome 8/Ubuntu Maverick)
Design-wise, I would probably not black out the album cover to show the name of the album/artist, but just make it transparent
Design-wise, I would probably not black out the album cover to show the name of the album/artist, but just make it transparent
I've stupidly been doing all my dev and testing in Chrome OS X. I tried out Firefox OS X today and located several bugs that were preventing main functionality from working; they're now fixed. Maybe that applies to cross-OS Chrome somehow? (I got other reports about things being broken on Chrome Windows.) If you get the time, I'd be thankful if you could try it out again and let me know if anything's fixed. I haven't figured out the change URL/share URL bugs yet, though.
Thanks, everyone, for the great, useful feedback. I'm taking all of it into consideration. :) Much appreciated.
Since then, I've been iterating on the app to improve the user experience. However, this is difficult with few users and consequentially little feedback. I published some info about the app to a few sources, including HN, but it's difficult to get a voice heard as a completely unknown developer.
I'd really like to generate awareness of the app so that I can get some feedback and understand how to improve it. It's not a business by any means, so I'm not financially incentivized. Just trying to make something good. How can I go about this?