Ask HN: What skills $100/hour - $200k/year
12 comments
In order to make 200K as a $100/hr contractor, you need to be continually employed at that rate. The consistent employment is the hard part.
In my experience one can make $100/hr+ as an iPhone contractor, but only in small chunks. It's getting harder, too, because there are now plenty of good-enough people who will charge less. Python + Javascript is hard, because there are loads of good people who will work full time for far less.
One rule of thumb I've found for maximizing contract rates, is that the best paying jobs are usually with huge rich non-technical companies that are kind of internally screwed up and are trying to solve their software problems by throwing money at them.
Thus, the best bet for making $200K as a contractor is to do something kind of horrible, like being a consultant at a bank or oil company fixing up a botched Oracle Financials install, or something like that. The other option, if you have a clearance, is doing defense contracting. (However, typically if you have the right clearance, you'd know about that option already.)
In my experience one can make $100/hr+ as an iPhone contractor, but only in small chunks. It's getting harder, too, because there are now plenty of good-enough people who will charge less. Python + Javascript is hard, because there are loads of good people who will work full time for far less.
One rule of thumb I've found for maximizing contract rates, is that the best paying jobs are usually with huge rich non-technical companies that are kind of internally screwed up and are trying to solve their software problems by throwing money at them.
Thus, the best bet for making $200K as a contractor is to do something kind of horrible, like being a consultant at a bank or oil company fixing up a botched Oracle Financials install, or something like that. The other option, if you have a clearance, is doing defense contracting. (However, typically if you have the right clearance, you'd know about that option already.)
Quotes from your post...
"After that I calculated I'll need a 200k/year job in the south east (think that makes 400k/year in the west)."
"If coding can't get me that, what type of consulting can I do which gets paid that much."
So, which is it that you are looking for? A job? Or consulting / contracting? The two are very different. Because you mentioned Python and Javascript together, I'm assuming you are looking to be a web developer. You would be unlikely to find a job paying 200K in web development. You will need to look into something that has demand but scarcity as well.
You can hit those rates as a contract web developer, but translating that gig into a 200K year depends on your management / marketing abilities. Personally, I wouldn't even want to attempt it if my lifestyle requirements were 200K per year. You will need to time to build up a client base and you may not be able to charge $100 / hour right away. More likely you would have to start somewhere around $50 - $80 / hour and work your way up from there.
"After that I calculated I'll need a 200k/year job in the south east (think that makes 400k/year in the west)."
"If coding can't get me that, what type of consulting can I do which gets paid that much."
So, which is it that you are looking for? A job? Or consulting / contracting? The two are very different. Because you mentioned Python and Javascript together, I'm assuming you are looking to be a web developer. You would be unlikely to find a job paying 200K in web development. You will need to look into something that has demand but scarcity as well.
You can hit those rates as a contract web developer, but translating that gig into a 200K year depends on your management / marketing abilities. Personally, I wouldn't even want to attempt it if my lifestyle requirements were 200K per year. You will need to time to build up a client base and you may not be able to charge $100 / hour right away. More likely you would have to start somewhere around $50 - $80 / hour and work your way up from there.
Correct. I understand python/JS won't get me that pay. But I have 2 years I can learn and build experience in. I need to know what in.
I see MS-CRM, WebMethods, Tivoli etc. That's what I was looking for.
I see MS-CRM, WebMethods, Tivoli etc. That's what I was looking for.
Unfortunately, it's not so easy as to say "I want $x per year with this wide skill set, what should I do?"
If you love Python and Javascript, that leads me to believe that you're into nice looking scripts and web development. Have you looked into Django?
I'm not really sure what to tell you other than do what you love, and hone your skills. If you can become specialized in a specific area of coding, even better.
It's not a piece of cake to go out and earn $200k/year, but with determination and a sharp mind it is definitely possible. Unfortunately, nothing HN can tell you will really move that a long.
Good luck!
If you love Python and Javascript, that leads me to believe that you're into nice looking scripts and web development. Have you looked into Django?
I'm not really sure what to tell you other than do what you love, and hone your skills. If you can become specialized in a specific area of coding, even better.
It's not a piece of cake to go out and earn $200k/year, but with determination and a sharp mind it is definitely possible. Unfortunately, nothing HN can tell you will really move that a long.
Good luck!
200/hr is standard for a few business oriented developer technologies. The technologies are typically boring and unpleasant to work with and you have to actually talk to business users (something devs usually hate). It may not be the technology so much as the ability to understand what business people mean when they are talking. If you like Python (which I do too) you may want to try doing some Django IT projects on contract to get some references and build a business from there. Boring, but a pretty common business model.
I was going to say something similar. The only developers I know making $110+ per hour in the South-East are very deep into back office stuff like MS-CRM, SAP, etc. I did enough of it to know I don't really like it, but I had a fellow team member who loves it and is now making money hand over fist working on MS-CRM full time.
Different strokes.
Different strokes.
hmmm... I have two perspectives to contribute to this question.
1) Do not think in terms of dollars per hour. Instead, think in terms of a full time job that pays 200k per year. Then go to places such as glassdoor.com and look up who's getting paid that yearly salary and move forward from there.
2) Take the skills you've accumulated, the 1st & 2nd loves you desire to incorporate, and start your own business. The way I see it, if you're quick, you will have two iterations to get a successful product out the door & profitable - one year per business idea.
If it were me, I would attack the latter as you have far more control, and a far bigger upside than your $200k/year goal.
1) Do not think in terms of dollars per hour. Instead, think in terms of a full time job that pays 200k per year. Then go to places such as glassdoor.com and look up who's getting paid that yearly salary and move forward from there.
2) Take the skills you've accumulated, the 1st & 2nd loves you desire to incorporate, and start your own business. The way I see it, if you're quick, you will have two iterations to get a successful product out the door & profitable - one year per business idea.
If it were me, I would attack the latter as you have far more control, and a far bigger upside than your $200k/year goal.
iPhone consulting can get into the range (as does embedded work in general). But it's not a sure thing by any means.
Objective C feels much more pythonic in execution than C or C++ does. (I too prefer python)
Objective C feels much more pythonic in execution than C or C++ does. (I too prefer python)
Thanks gte910h - What entails "embedded work in general" ? Can you be a bit specific ?
Designing embedded devices, code + hardware, or supervising a team doing so. Like displays, cable set top boxes, etc. Usually in C, doing stuff like embedded Linux or QNX, etc.
Not all work doing that mind you is in that range, only ones where you do a lot of work very well, often in very large companies. I've seen comparable rates coming out of consulting firms doing that stuff in the area as well. I bet Scientific Atlanta (a Cisco company), Flextronics, Lockheed and other larger electronics firms have similar positions. I'm in Atlanta, but I'm betting RTP has a similar sort of thing.
You're not going to start anywhere doing general embedded work at that rate. Honestly, iPhone dev is probably the fastest to get there, but then you're still going to have to push hard. I see 90k as a super frequent base for salaried iOS dev, and lots of agencies (which are pretty small) charging $150 or so.
Additionally, I know Bank of America's quantitative division in Atlanta is constantly unable to find enough rockstar C++ programmers. Their pay range starts below that, but gets there in a couple years (and I do mean like 2, not 10). But this is for people who already are very very very good at C++ (the coding test is pretty hard). That position isn't embedded, but requires lots of C++ and finance knowledge to excel in.
Not all work doing that mind you is in that range, only ones where you do a lot of work very well, often in very large companies. I've seen comparable rates coming out of consulting firms doing that stuff in the area as well. I bet Scientific Atlanta (a Cisco company), Flextronics, Lockheed and other larger electronics firms have similar positions. I'm in Atlanta, but I'm betting RTP has a similar sort of thing.
You're not going to start anywhere doing general embedded work at that rate. Honestly, iPhone dev is probably the fastest to get there, but then you're still going to have to push hard. I see 90k as a super frequent base for salaried iOS dev, and lots of agencies (which are pretty small) charging $150 or so.
Additionally, I know Bank of America's quantitative division in Atlanta is constantly unable to find enough rockstar C++ programmers. Their pay range starts below that, but gets there in a couple years (and I do mean like 2, not 10). But this is for people who already are very very very good at C++ (the coding test is pretty hard). That position isn't embedded, but requires lots of C++ and finance knowledge to excel in.
About that bank thing: Friend of mine works there, they really are looking hard, let me know via a message to my email and I'll look up a posting/email address for you.
I believe they do the massive simulations/calculations which generate the daily interest rates there, but am not sure so much.
I believe they do the massive simulations/calculations which generate the daily interest rates there, but am not sure so much.
More info on the $200k range for embedded in the southeast US, please.
Consistently? Take a quant job in Chicago or NYC (or London). I'm sure there's groups outside those cities as well, but I don't know the southeast well enough to say WHERE.
I'm personally sharpening my tools for "big data" and "augmented reality" but it's a gamble, which is inevitable if you want to make the big bucks in this industry.
Big data = Cloud computing etc. ?
I was more referring to this definition from Wikipedia[1]:
> Big data are datasets that grow so large that they become awkward to work with using on-hand database management tools. Difficulties include capture, storage, search, sharing, analytics, and visualizing.
Some other interesting resources:
What is data science?: http://radar.oreilly.com/2010/06/what-is-data-science.html
How to turn data into money: http://petewarden.typepad.com/searchbrowser/2010/10/how-to-t....
O'Reilly Radar: http://radar.oreilly.com/data/
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_data
> Big data are datasets that grow so large that they become awkward to work with using on-hand database management tools. Difficulties include capture, storage, search, sharing, analytics, and visualizing.
Some other interesting resources:
What is data science?: http://radar.oreilly.com/2010/06/what-is-data-science.html
How to turn data into money: http://petewarden.typepad.com/searchbrowser/2010/10/how-to-t....
O'Reilly Radar: http://radar.oreilly.com/data/
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_data
contractors for highly expensive business software can go above that (example: SAP, Oracle Retail etc)
Same for the SOA/EAI scene, it has some jobs that require expertise, but the consulting pay is usually 500€/hr and more.
Think TIBCO/webMethods products. Just to have an idea, these products are usually sold in the order of million(s) of €, normally used by banking, telcos or any other big company.
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tried trolling?
Negotiation.
I think I've become a nomad, with not one skill very sharp. I love to code and want to get back to it full time.
I just chalked up a plan, but I will have to stay at my present position for 2 more years. After that I calculated I'll need a 200k/year job in the south east (think that makes 400k/year in the west).
What skills should I learn and sharpen in these 2 years which will get me that pay scale ?
1st love python, second love Javascript. But I can pick up anything and run with it mad.
If coding can't get me that, what type of consulting can I do which gets paid that much.
I have the startup route, but I specifically want to know about the job skills.
Thanks.