Ask HN: Has it become harder for Canadians to get work in the US on a TN visa?
11 comments
I'm here on a J-1 visa and it was pretty easy. Didn't get much of a questionnaire at the border.
I'm also interested to find out what employers in the US think. Would you still consider resume's that come from Canadians? I seem to remember it being easier to get responses (before Trump). Has the climate changed? This is geared more towards the technical space.
Yes, Canadian resumes are some of the best resumes employers can get. Tip for other founders: if you're not hiring Canadians, you're missing out on a massive economic opportunity. Canadians are typically underpaid for technical roles in Toronto / Vancouver by a factor of 50%, at least.
Canadians who haven't yet worked or done co-op terms in the US often think it's much more difficult to get a job in the Bay Area than it actually is. Tip for employees: the single best thing you can do for your career in technology is work in the Bay Area, even if only for a short time.
I'm not sure how much the climate has changed, and I'm not a lawyer, but I can tell you that generally: if you have a degree, a portfolio and work experience, things have a high probability of working out well if you apply to US jobs.
Canadians who haven't yet worked or done co-op terms in the US often think it's much more difficult to get a job in the Bay Area than it actually is. Tip for employees: the single best thing you can do for your career in technology is work in the Bay Area, even if only for a short time.
I'm not sure how much the climate has changed, and I'm not a lawyer, but I can tell you that generally: if you have a degree, a portfolio and work experience, things have a high probability of working out well if you apply to US jobs.
I think there's a decent number of us who don't see a 50% pay increase as enough compensation for living in the Bay Area over Vancouver.
By 50% underpaid I mean a 100% pay increase (doubled) for moving to SF.
Making $80,000 in a nice big city is easily a better life choice than moving to SF for a $160,000 job.
It could be worth it if you also have or find a spouse that can swing $160k, and then one or both of you move up. Plus you get SF weather and outdoor scene.
I think the outdoor scene is better in Vancouver. World class snowboarding / skiing a 2 hour drive away in Whistler, world class climbing a 1 hour drive away in Squamish, all kinds of water-based activities (except surfing) on your doorstep and great hiking all around. Friends who've moved to SF find SF better in some respects but overall I think Vancouver edges it out.
Vancouver is awesome too...But the money sucks.
pretty amazing surfing on the island at Tofino, but that's a bit more of a trek. Also diving as well
Spouses can’t work on their partners TN visa unless they qualify themselves.
Utterly stupid oversight of the NAFTA agreement.
Utterly stupid oversight of the NAFTA agreement.
Actually even 80K to 160k is kind of underselling it. Once you add Amazon/Google/Facebook RSUs the total comp can become outrageous. Then you add a working spouse or partner.
I know people who've doubled their total comp on a move from Vancouver to SF (at current exchange rates) but I'd say they were generally underpaid by Vancouver standards already. I think 50% is closer to reality if you've already maxed out what you can get in the Vancouver market. Once you adjust for cost of living that drops again. Some of the remaining difference can be accounted for by Vancouver being a nicer place to live and work. I think that still leaves some difference unaccounted for and exactly how much will depend on the individual and their priorities and preferences. I know I'm not the only one who is pretty aware of the trade offs and potential pay increase of working in SF and still prefers Vancouver though
Currently making 50k USD before taxes in Vancouver... I'm pretty sure it'd be a big increase if I went down.
It's more than 50%.
I'd guess more than 100% before exchange rate.
Then you do the smart thing and come to Seattle instead.
edit: ah yeah the difference is clarified below.
I'd guess more than 100% before exchange rate.
Then you do the smart thing and come to Seattle instead.
edit: ah yeah the difference is clarified below.
I don't think it matters much for mid-size to larger corporations. What I fear this hurts the most is startups or small firms that operate on tight timelines and under severe cash crunch and don't have the resources or time to jump through the hoops of the arcane visa sponsorship process.
That being said: if a company wants you badly enough, they will make it happen ;-).
That being said: if a company wants you badly enough, they will make it happen ;-).
Again, IANAL but: from experience, the TN Visa process is relatively painless (happens right at the Port of Entry, takes an hour at most) and most times can be done without a lawyer. If a lawyer is needed (suggested for first-timers), you can use services like UpCounsel [1] that are relatively inexpensive and not a huge time-sink for companies (resource constrained or not).
[1] https://upcounsel.com/
[1] https://upcounsel.com/
Yes the government is asking for RFE - Request for Evidence after filing for Visa's on TN's which was rare in the past, this of course extends the time is takes to get a Visa.
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I don't have experience with the TN, but the place I used to work at had an easy time getting L-1 visas during the Obama administration, but during the Trump administration it seemed like the government wanted a lot of extra supporting documentation.
I'm the lucky one who got green card only 1.5 yrs after getting TN-based job in 2015.
I think lots is determined by the pull factor - how much US company wants you.
Agree with the fact that equally skilled, similar-timezoned, english-speaking Canadians are severely underpaid and US/tech is a good opportunity to equalize this.
I think lots is determined by the pull factor - how much US company wants you.
Agree with the fact that equally skilled, similar-timezoned, english-speaking Canadians are severely underpaid and US/tech is a good opportunity to equalize this.
How can you get a green card from TN visa?
You can't. I'm guessing he started off as TN then moved to H1B then to GC.
You definitely can. Once you start the GC process you can't get a TN renewal anymore due to intent, but as long as you get your GC before 3 years is up then you're ok.
Even if it takes longer than 3 years you can just not leave the US until you get the GC.
Even if it takes longer than 3 years you can just not leave the US until you get the GC.
This is bad advice, the moment you apply for a green card you're non-compliant with dual intent of your current TN status.
Intent only matters at the time of applying to admission into the country, and at the time of applying for a visa. You're not required to have continued nonimmigrant intent while here.
The legal explanation for TN visas is the following: An intent to immigrate in the future that is in no way connected to the proposed immediate trip need not in itself result in a finding that the immediate trip is not temporary. Repeated renewal of a TN visa that leads to extended stay in the United States, may still be temporary, as long as there is no immediate intent to immigrate. (9 FAM 402.17-7)
TL;DR what matters is present intent at the time of application and every time you enter the US. It is not illegal if your intent changes after being here for a while.
The legal explanation for TN visas is the following: An intent to immigrate in the future that is in no way connected to the proposed immediate trip need not in itself result in a finding that the immediate trip is not temporary. Repeated renewal of a TN visa that leads to extended stay in the United States, may still be temporary, as long as there is no immediate intent to immigrate. (9 FAM 402.17-7)
TL;DR what matters is present intent at the time of application and every time you enter the US. It is not illegal if your intent changes after being here for a while.
I don't believe you're reading that correctly. First of all the manual you reference is not the law, its the guidelines for an officer looking at you at the POE.
An intent to immigrate in the future that is in no way connected to the proposed immediate trip.
How I think a reasonable officer would read this: If you are coming in for TN and they ask you about you intent if you say after the next 3 years I am planning on moving back to Canada but in 10 years I want to try to immigrate, that shouldn't disqualify you for the immediate trip.
The trip is the duration of your current stay, not just the entry.
An intent to immigrate in the future that is in no way connected to the proposed immediate trip.
How I think a reasonable officer would read this: If you are coming in for TN and they ask you about you intent if you say after the next 3 years I am planning on moving back to Canada but in 10 years I want to try to immigrate, that shouldn't disqualify you for the immediate trip.
The trip is the duration of your current stay, not just the entry.
> Even if it takes longer than 3 years you can just not leave the US until you get the GC.
uh, unless you get AP/EAD then aren't you in violation and isn't that reason enough to reject your green card (hell, isn't it reason enough to arrest you and start deportation proceedings?)
uh, unless you get AP/EAD then aren't you in violation and isn't that reason enough to reject your green card (hell, isn't it reason enough to arrest you and start deportation proceedings?)
You can, but it's risky.
There is nothing preventing the company from filing everything and you go through the normal process.
The catch is, if you have to leave then a green card application can be reason to deny you entry. As you have shown dual intent.
I switched to h-1b, seemed easier.
Still can't travel because AP applications take forever now. I'm waiting on the oh so useful interview to be scheduled for my green card now. Used to be they could waive the requirement but now it's absolutely required.
annoying having to wait just so I can do it and confirm that I didn't lie all over my forms or whatever.
There is nothing preventing the company from filing everything and you go through the normal process.
The catch is, if you have to leave then a green card application can be reason to deny you entry. As you have shown dual intent.
I switched to h-1b, seemed easier.
Still can't travel because AP applications take forever now. I'm waiting on the oh so useful interview to be scheduled for my green card now. Used to be they could waive the requirement but now it's absolutely required.
annoying having to wait just so I can do it and confirm that I didn't lie all over my forms or whatever.
In my personal experience, it did get a lot harder from 2014 to 2016. My first TN-1, in 2014, was approved very easily with no issue. Had all the standard documentation and there was no ask for additional evidence.
Renewing in 2016 didn't go as well... I was initially denied at the Port of Entry, had to get a lawyer to coordinate an appeal. That took about 30 days, but eventually was granted a 3 year TN. I worked with Peter Roberts who does AMA's here from time to time on the appeal. Actually can't recommend him enough to any Canadian's looking to work in the US!
Renewing in 2016 didn't go as well... I was initially denied at the Port of Entry, had to get a lawyer to coordinate an appeal. That took about 30 days, but eventually was granted a 3 year TN. I worked with Peter Roberts who does AMA's here from time to time on the appeal. Actually can't recommend him enough to any Canadian's looking to work in the US!
FWIW - My lawyers said renewing your TN Visa, when you live in the States is expected to be difficult - as opposed to living in Canada, and crossing the border every day for work.
My company heavily suggested I switch to h1b simply because they expected my TN visa renewal to be denied (I am now on a h1b1)
My company heavily suggested I switch to h1b simply because they expected my TN visa renewal to be denied (I am now on a h1b1)
I learned that my mistake was crossing back into Canada and doing the renewal at the Port of Entry. Apparently you can do TN renewals directly through the Department of State, while still being in the US. That's how we did it for the appeal and everything went smoothly.
What category was the job, engineer or CSA?
In 2014 we did it under Management Consultant. In 2016 under Software Engineer.
My workplace is submitting H1-B applications for TN status employees earlier than normal, probably due to uncertainty around TNs.
That said, my latest in-person TN application wasn’t more difficult than before.
That said, my latest in-person TN application wasn’t more difficult than before.
I've been getting my TN Visas at YVR for the past 8 years. Always had to go to secondary and wait for an extra 1 hour. Nothing too different recently.
That being said, it also depends on how your application package is formatted, what position you're applying for, and your demeanor when applying. All these could affect your application process.
That being said, it also depends on how your application package is formatted, what position you're applying for, and your demeanor when applying. All these could affect your application process.
What position is your TN for?
I've found each TN application to be largely affected by the customs officer. I've had smooth sailing going through Vancouver, as long as all my documents are in order. I've had a lot of trouble going through Toronto (with the same documents). Just some anecdotal application location advice!