Amazon Prime Wardrobe lets you try on and return clothes free(techcrunch.com)
techcrunch.com
Amazon Prime Wardrobe lets you try on and return clothes free
https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/20/amazon-prime-wardrobe
104 comments
Other than the discount for keeping multiple items, I'm not sure what's so special about this. You can order a box of clothes from most major retailers, with free shipping and free returns, and with usually a 30+ day return policy. Here, you only have 7 days to return.
I think there's power in telling people that the expected way of using this service is that they'll return some of the items that they order via the service. A lot of people see a stigma about returning clothes (i.e. "I didn't like it" not being a valid reason) and therefore won't go the route of having to initiate a return for something they've ordered online.
This bypasses a lot of that, in the same way that something like Trunk Club or Warby Parker does.
This bypasses a lot of that, in the same way that something like Trunk Club or Warby Parker does.
As someone that buys 80% of my clothes online, this has rarely been the case for me. I'm lucky if I can get free shipping to my home and have only experienced free return shipping, uhhhh, well not sure if I ever have.
Where do you buy your clothes? I use Gilt, Mr. Porter, and brand specific pages. My last online purchase was from sevenforallMankind where I bought a pricey pair of jeans and if I needed to return them it would have been $5 for shipping.
Where do you buy your clothes? I use Gilt, Mr. Porter, and brand specific pages. My last online purchase was from sevenforallMankind where I bought a pricey pair of jeans and if I needed to return them it would have been $5 for shipping.
Gilt is a poor example because it's a nearly out of business discount shop. but Mr porter and most online stores will offer free shipping and returns. The exception are a lot of brand specific pages - 7formankind i always found to be really bad. But try all the hundreds of boutique web stores - i've never seen them charge for return shipping.
Unless I'm mistaken return policies are pretty much dictated by law in a very customer friendly and reasonable way here in the EU.
At least here in Germany the Widerrufsrecht ("right of withdrawal") allows you to return items within 14 days without shipping costs or any explanation. It is my understanding that this applies to the whole european union.
At least here in Germany the Widerrufsrecht ("right of withdrawal") allows you to return items within 14 days without shipping costs or any explanation. It is my understanding that this applies to the whole european union.
No upfront costs and 10-20% off is a pretty hefty discount.
No upfront cost is going to be a big selling point. It's the same thing Jack Threads has been doing for some time with massive success.
Seems like this really simplifies the experience, letting you send clothes back in the same box and with a prepaid shipping label.
It feels like it's set up to make returning substantial numbers of pieces of clothing more normal and expected. I'm guessing at other retailers with a free shipping/return policy, they'd frown on very high return rates.
It feels like it's set up to make returning substantial numbers of pieces of clothing more normal and expected. I'm guessing at other retailers with a free shipping/return policy, they'd frown on very high return rates.
Banana Republic/Gap/Old Navy does pretty much the same thing and there's no limit on the items you can order. You an also return to a local store as well.
My wife loves them because the stores near us don't have a huge selection of Petite sizes, and her return rate is somewhere around the 30% range. The experience is so good that she's incredibly loyal to them.
My wife loves them because the stores near us don't have a huge selection of Petite sizes, and her return rate is somewhere around the 30% range. The experience is so good that she's incredibly loyal to them.
In that case, Amazon is winning the marketing war, big time.
I'm in the UK, and ASOS does this already. My partner regular orders the same clothes in multiple sizes, and sends back the ones she doesn't want in the bag they're sent in, with the prepaid return label.
Adding to the UK perspective, the following companies all do it as well and are representative of both older and younger shoppers:
* Boohoo
* Pretty Little Thing
* Missguided
* Marks & Spencers (non-food)
* House of Fraser (under 20Kg)
* Debenhams
Outside of these, with "Collect Plus" now being next-to ubiquitous in the UK (over 6,000 participating stores) any store using Collect Plus (or DPDs Ship-to-shop) can offer free returns via the stores. As an example of how useful this is in general, the tiny corner shop on my street is a Collect Plus collection point.
* Boohoo
* Pretty Little Thing
* Missguided
* Marks & Spencers (non-food)
* House of Fraser (under 20Kg)
* Debenhams
Outside of these, with "Collect Plus" now being next-to ubiquitous in the UK (over 6,000 participating stores) any store using Collect Plus (or DPDs Ship-to-shop) can offer free returns via the stores. As an example of how useful this is in general, the tiny corner shop on my street is a Collect Plus collection point.
Another one for the UK, Doddle provides pick up locations at train stations and other places designed for commuters.
They even have places to try on clothes, and packaging materials there, so you can return the items without ever taking them home.
Unfortunately they are quite expensive from a retailers perspective, or roughly equivalent to a Prime membership if the user subscribes directly (so they can use it with all online stores).
They even have places to try on clothes, and packaging materials there, so you can return the items without ever taking them home.
Unfortunately they are quite expensive from a retailers perspective, or roughly equivalent to a Prime membership if the user subscribes directly (so they can use it with all online stores).
I've a 20 minute walk to work along residential streets, and there are 3 collect plus stores on my route. They really are everywhere.
Yes, you'll see post offices in the UK absolutely rammed full of ASOS returns. They must spend an absolute fortune on delivery/postage.
Customers must pay an absolute fortune on returns (embedded in cost of clothing), instead of that money generally going to paying landlords - who constantly put their rent/leases higher.
I feel like your partner should have to pay extra for this service. As it stands the cost of all this extra shipping is built into the base price. Everyone else is subsidizing your partner's behavior. I wonder what percentage of customers do this.
Walk into a post office or collect plus in the UK and look behind the counter. They're all rammed full of asos returns. She is not alone in this behaviour.
There are subscription services that are designed specifically around this behavior. My sister in law uses one I think called stitch fix. You give them your measurements, interview, and then they assign you a fashion consultant who picks out clothes for you and sends them on a regular basis. You send back whatever you don't like. It must be pretty profitable if more traditional retailers are heading partially in that direction.
[deleted]
I think what's special is the first word of the title. (Serious comment.)
$50 minimum for free shipping from almost all major clothing retailers. and no returns after you've worn it.
Not true. Jcrew Factory does $5 flat rate, or more frequently offers it free. A prepaid label is also provided with the shipment. And unlike Amazon, these clothes are not add-on or pantry-like items (i.e. need to spend some crazy amount of money to NOT pay for shipping, even with Prime), and won't be last-miled by their crappy service or Lasership.
J Crew charges for return shipping even when they ship out for free, just FYI. I'd consider that more of a problem than Amazon's $25 add-on program (which generally isn't relevant for clothing anyway).
> Not true. Jcrew Factory does $5 flat rate
Sure, cool, but that helps my original point.
Sure, cool, but that helps my original point.
last ditch effort from JCrew to make money, as they are really hurting right now. JCrew Factory is also their "clearance" brand.
> and no returns after you've worn it
No one lets you return clothes after you've worn them, including Amazon. (With exceptions for defective clothing, typically.)
No one lets you return clothes after you've worn them, including Amazon. (With exceptions for defective clothing, typically.)
I think what's a game-changer here is if they only charge your credit card after the 7 days. It's not very clear, but they do say that you only pay for what you keep. And this could be huge.
15 items could easily be $1,000, and asking someone to pay a $1,000 just to try, even if they know they can return and get a refund, is a huge barrier. If Amazon would indeed charge you only after the 7-days, they could convert a lot of store buyers their ways.
15 items could easily be $1,000, and asking someone to pay a $1,000 just to try, even if they know they can return and get a refund, is a huge barrier. If Amazon would indeed charge you only after the 7-days, they could convert a lot of store buyers their ways.
Indeed this is a very common practice in the high end fashion business where people use personal stylists to help them pick clothes. The stylist grabs a bunch of products for the client, sends them "on memo" or "on consignment" and they pay for only what they don't return. Even when you're dealing with clients for whom floating a few thousand dollars is no big deal, the psychological impact of not actually hitting their card until the return is compelling enough to retailers that they are willing to give up the inventory for that 5 to 10 day period.
Not really. They can just put a hold on your card for 7 days without charging you.
huge difference. people will order clothes without paying, get them super fast, and feel free to return before they've even been charged. Amazon really is doing everything they can to remove purchasing barriers.
For German customers this is nothing special.
As a customer, you can order from any Retailer and return within 14 days without giving any reason, as we have a special "Fernabsatzgesetz" (Distance Selling Act).
Nearly every Retailer offers free returns and above 40 Euro purchase value, returns even have to be free of charge.
Many Retailers offer more than 14 days, 30 days is nothing special and some like Zalando (a Zappos clone) even offer 100 days of free returns.
As a customer, you can order from any Retailer and return within 14 days without giving any reason, as we have a special "Fernabsatzgesetz" (Distance Selling Act).
Nearly every Retailer offers free returns and above 40 Euro purchase value, returns even have to be free of charge.
Many Retailers offer more than 14 days, 30 days is nothing special and some like Zalando (a Zappos clone) even offer 100 days of free returns.
> above 40 Euro purchase value, returns even have to be free of charge
This was removed from the law in June 2014. Retailers can now say that customers need to pay a carrier for the shipment back regardless of value. Some do, most don't. They can however never charge "restocking fees" or whatnot. The same day the EU Consumer Rights Directive was put in force so all EU customers now have this protection.
(The Fernabsatzgesetz was removed in 2002 by the way. This topic is now regulated in the usual BGB.)
This was removed from the law in June 2014. Retailers can now say that customers need to pay a carrier for the shipment back regardless of value. Some do, most don't. They can however never charge "restocking fees" or whatnot. The same day the EU Consumer Rights Directive was put in force so all EU customers now have this protection.
(The Fernabsatzgesetz was removed in 2002 by the way. This topic is now regulated in the usual BGB.)
Amazon's service is not about return policies at all. Customers don't pay up front for the clothes, they only pay once they decide to keep an item.
Not a good day to be Stitch Fix...
Classic Amazon/Google move, take away the easy appeal and marginalize the growing competitor, forcing them to innovate if they're going to find a role.
Classic Amazon/Google move, take away the easy appeal and marginalize the growing competitor, forcing them to innovate if they're going to find a role.
I don't think this will have much of an impact on Stitch Fix.
Stitch Fix's proposition isn't free returns - plenty of places sell clothes online with free returns - Stitch Fix's appeal is that they will do the work of picking out potential items for you so that you don't have to comb through hundreds of items to find what you want.
It mostly just seems like Amazon is bringing free returns to the low end of the market.
Stitch Fix's proposition isn't free returns - plenty of places sell clothes online with free returns - Stitch Fix's appeal is that they will do the work of picking out potential items for you so that you don't have to comb through hundreds of items to find what you want.
It mostly just seems like Amazon is bringing free returns to the low end of the market.
Bear in mind that Amazon already has all the pieces in place to offer ML-driven recommendations, and I would be surprised if it didn't offer that option once this gets out of beta.
It's possible ML-driven recommendations may surpass the recommendations of StitchFix's "personal stylists" in terms of accuracy. And unless "personal stylists" is just a market-facing name for "algorithms," ML-driven recommendations by Amazon would certainly surpass StitchFix in terms of efficiency and operating costs.
It's possible ML-driven recommendations may surpass the recommendations of StitchFix's "personal stylists" in terms of accuracy. And unless "personal stylists" is just a market-facing name for "algorithms," ML-driven recommendations by Amazon would certainly surpass StitchFix in terms of efficiency and operating costs.
You might be surprised how much data science drives StitchFix; I sure was when this came out recently: http://algorithms-tour.stitchfix.com/
Wow. It doesn't tell you fully how they actually do it, but I'm still a little surprised they put that out there
So now knock off clothing will be the new electronics on Amazon. Fake clothing, fake brands.. who really knows.
In our town there is a boutique in a strip mall. They cut off the tags from other store's products and put their on their merchandise. A high schooler kid was heard telling her friends her job is to do this.. Some were clearance from Walmart; others Kohls.
Amazon should really figure out how to not allow knock offs.
In our town there is a boutique in a strip mall. They cut off the tags from other store's products and put their on their merchandise. A high schooler kid was heard telling her friends her job is to do this.. Some were clearance from Walmart; others Kohls.
Amazon should really figure out how to not allow knock offs.
> So now knock off clothing will be the new electronics on Amazon. Fake clothing, fake brands.. who really knows.
It already is, unfortunately, at least that's been my personal experience.
It already is, unfortunately, at least that's been my personal experience.
This is one of the things I miss most of the USA, ability to return anything, especially clothes.
In most of Asia, and maybe around the world. There's no return policy. It sucks.
In most of Asia, and maybe around the world. There's no return policy. It sucks.
In EU you have 14 days to return anything bought online without giving any reason, and seller must refund you as soon as it gets the items back. Some give more weeks, but 14 days is the legal minimum.
The EU 14-day online returns is an extension of the older regulation against high-pressure sales tactics, like telephone sales, door-to-door sales, and booths on the street.
It allows you to change your mind if you made an impulse purchase, but not really to "test" a product. The returned item must be unused and in new condition, with any seals unbroken - generally if you open the box or rip any plastic bags the online retailer doesn't have to accept a return any more.
It allows you to change your mind if you made an impulse purchase, but not really to "test" a product. The returned item must be unused and in new condition, with any seals unbroken - generally if you open the box or rip any plastic bags the online retailer doesn't have to accept a return any more.
The seals unbroken is valid only for a very restricted type of items (sealed audio, video or computer software, such as DVDs, which you have unsealed upon receipt [1]).
Also, in general, there is no "unused" or "box sealed" condition. Just you have to return the item undamaged and "as it was".
You are required to take good care of the goods and you may be liable for the reduced value of goods caused by handling them beyond what’s necessary to be sure they work and are what you ordered. [2]
[1] http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guar... [2] https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/buying-online/your-ri...
Also, in general, there is no "unused" or "box sealed" condition. Just you have to return the item undamaged and "as it was".
You are required to take good care of the goods and you may be liable for the reduced value of goods caused by handling them beyond what’s necessary to be sure they work and are what you ordered. [2]
[1] http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guar... [2] https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/buying-online/your-ri...
However there is no requirement that the return shipping is free (nor the original shipping ofc).
If you ask for express delivery nope, yes for standard
This refund must include any shipping charges you paid when you made your purchase. However, the trader may charge you additional delivery costs if you specifically requested non-standard (express) delivery. [http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guar...]
This refund must include any shipping charges you paid when you made your purchase. However, the trader may charge you additional delivery costs if you specifically requested non-standard (express) delivery. [http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guar...]
So, like every online clothing and shoe retailer has for years,since not long after it was Zappos initial distinguishing feature which everyone copied since it was so obviously highly preferred by consumers.
By now, that's about as notable as delivering goods to your door in cardboard boxes.
By now, that's about as notable as delivering goods to your door in cardboard boxes.
But the game changer is the 10-20% off your purchase. That's a pretty big deal. Not only that, but no upfront costs.
Amazon already had free shipping and returns before for Prime users. This however is a completely different psychology to online shopping.
Amazon already had free shipping and returns before for Prime users. This however is a completely different psychology to online shopping.
> But the game changer is the 10-20% off your purchase.
[...]
> This however is a completely different psychology to online shopping.
“Buy more and get a discount which increases, within some range, based on quantiry” is not new in any area of retail, including online shopping.
[...]
> This however is a completely different psychology to online shopping.
“Buy more and get a discount which increases, within some range, based on quantiry” is not new in any area of retail, including online shopping.
> “Buy more and get a discount which increases, within some range, based on quantiry”
What amazon is doing is not the same as this quote. This isn't buying in bulk. This is more kin to B&M retail shopping where you don't have to pay any upfront costs to try on an article of clothing and assess fit. Only now, it's in the comfort of your own home.
The discount would be icing on the cake, but in the realm of fashion, 10-20% off is game changer.
What amazon is doing is not the same as this quote. This isn't buying in bulk. This is more kin to B&M retail shopping where you don't have to pay any upfront costs to try on an article of clothing and assess fit. Only now, it's in the comfort of your own home.
The discount would be icing on the cake, but in the realm of fashion, 10-20% off is game changer.
> The discount would be icing on the cake, but in the realm of fashion, 10-20% off is game changer.
Quantity-based discounts of 10-20% at volumes of 3-5 items are low in clothing retail; 25% at a quantity of two isn't uncommon (consistency and simplicity across the board of the Amazon discount structure might be somewhat novel, but the level of discount is not.)
Quantity-based discounts of 10-20% at volumes of 3-5 items are low in clothing retail; 25% at a quantity of two isn't uncommon (consistency and simplicity across the board of the Amazon discount structure might be somewhat novel, but the level of discount is not.)
That's exactly the value proposition that Jet is built on.
Sure, discounts for buying more is nothing new, but no upfront costs? No place does that at Amazon's scale.
> Sure, discounts for buying more is nothing new, but no upfront costs?
No upfront costs is isomorphic to “buy on credit with low-friction returns”.
No upfront costs is isomorphic to “buy on credit with low-friction returns”.
Why doesn't Amazon leverage Zappos (an Amazon subsidary)? Their service and return policy (1 year) are amazing.
It seems odd to compete with Zappos when it already has a loyal user base.
It seems odd to compete with Zappos when it already has a loyal user base.
I think it's safe to assume that Amazon has a reason to not "leverage" Zappos, e.g. maybe Zappos margins are much lower or there's substantial upside to having people shop on the main Amazon site and throw some electronics in their cart while they're at it.
I think they have to do this, in the UK, under UK trading laws.
It's a bit of a problem because, "this is why we can't have nice things", some people are arseholes.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37711091
> "I return half of what I buy," says 30-year-old Alex Demetri, who spends £500 to £700 on clothes each month.
> She also admits to wearing some of her clothes first before returning them.
> It is customers like Ms Demetri who are causing problems for shops, which are "struggling to cope" with the number of items returned, new research suggests.
It's a bit of a problem because, "this is why we can't have nice things", some people are arseholes.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37711091
> "I return half of what I buy," says 30-year-old Alex Demetri, who spends £500 to £700 on clothes each month.
> She also admits to wearing some of her clothes first before returning them.
> It is customers like Ms Demetri who are causing problems for shops, which are "struggling to cope" with the number of items returned, new research suggests.
I don't understand why this is a differentiator in clothes shopping online. The thing is you can return stuff without going to the store. But the most time is spent in browsing through items and trying them out. Returning items at a store does not take time at all. He cannot imagine that alone being a selling point for either Amazon prime or for trunkclub.
Psychologically it strikes me as quite a similar approach to micro-transaction mobile gaming. I mean, the incentive to "save" by purchasing more really bothers me on a fundamental level. As in, my imagination is running wild with what percentage of the eventual Customer Base are, for lack of a better term, suffering from a Compulsion or Addiction to Buying Things? I'm sure an algorithm could spot it, but why bother? They're good for business, right?
Between housewares, groceries, and now clothes, is there any more clear philosophy that Amazon wants us to never leave the house and socialize with one another? I mean, it's not that far from potential reality. Between mobile phone self-isolation and never having to actually go to stores where people work to make a living, this is kind of an unnerving future. Well, for those of us who want to preserve some shreds of humanity under the shadow of the Amazonmandyias Bezos is building.
Between housewares, groceries, and now clothes, is there any more clear philosophy that Amazon wants us to never leave the house and socialize with one another? I mean, it's not that far from potential reality. Between mobile phone self-isolation and never having to actually go to stores where people work to make a living, this is kind of an unnerving future. Well, for those of us who want to preserve some shreds of humanity under the shadow of the Amazonmandyias Bezos is building.
> Between housewares, groceries, and now clothes, is there any more clear philosophy that Amazon wants us to never leave the house and socialize with one another?
Well, I suppose you might have a point if your only source of interaction with other people is at a mall. However, the less time I spend in a shopping mall or grocery store, the more time I have to get outside, take a bike ride, hike with the family, sit outside at a cafe, garden, etc. If anything, the less time I need to waste at a physical store, the more free time I have to leave the house and socialize with others in a much more authentic setting.
Well, I suppose you might have a point if your only source of interaction with other people is at a mall. However, the less time I spend in a shopping mall or grocery store, the more time I have to get outside, take a bike ride, hike with the family, sit outside at a cafe, garden, etc. If anything, the less time I need to waste at a physical store, the more free time I have to leave the house and socialize with others in a much more authentic setting.
Nothing can divert the "for your convenience" consolidation train unless we accidentally trigger some really unexpected economic / instinctual landmines along the way.
So, it's up to us on an individual level to preserve our own humanity. It plucks some discomfort cords in me to see the same trajectory you do. It hurts even more to see society roll over for it. We're corralled and herded to their nearest wedge issue that resonates so we can focus all our discomfort and unhappiness at marketeer sanctioned foci. A few people say things like "huh automation, where's that going to go when there's no unskilled jobs?"
"Nah that's not a problem, job retraining and economics and stuff but HEY check out this buffet of exaggerated wedge issues. Don't the guys on the other side really piss you off? Haha yeah."
Millions of people divided into black vs. white issues where both sides are mostly reasonable people pissed off at the other side's crazies. Crazy is distributed evenly enough to support this system. The ebb and flow of the number of crazies on either side of the issue is balanced with media magnification and non-reporting.
Keep the fight going, never come to any conclusions at all costs.
The psychographics industry mastered provoking conspicuous consumption in the 80s and 90s. Household debt peaked in the early 2000's partially because of this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_debt#/media/File:U.S...
I think that over time, so much has wealth and.. potential has been sucked away that it's somehow more profitable for the industry to move on to influencing and directing outrage. "The attention economy" is the new state of things. Too much production for humans to consume it all. We have articles talking about "peak attention". How dehumanizing is that? Your attention and your thoughts have been commoditized. Companies pump it like oil and sell it back to you. We live on a mountain of abstractions that dehumanize us as individuals and stir us all together into a slurry of hardly dissimilar demographic chunks.
It'll be interesting to see what's next.
So, it's up to us on an individual level to preserve our own humanity. It plucks some discomfort cords in me to see the same trajectory you do. It hurts even more to see society roll over for it. We're corralled and herded to their nearest wedge issue that resonates so we can focus all our discomfort and unhappiness at marketeer sanctioned foci. A few people say things like "huh automation, where's that going to go when there's no unskilled jobs?"
"Nah that's not a problem, job retraining and economics and stuff but HEY check out this buffet of exaggerated wedge issues. Don't the guys on the other side really piss you off? Haha yeah."
Millions of people divided into black vs. white issues where both sides are mostly reasonable people pissed off at the other side's crazies. Crazy is distributed evenly enough to support this system. The ebb and flow of the number of crazies on either side of the issue is balanced with media magnification and non-reporting.
Keep the fight going, never come to any conclusions at all costs.
The psychographics industry mastered provoking conspicuous consumption in the 80s and 90s. Household debt peaked in the early 2000's partially because of this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_debt#/media/File:U.S...
I think that over time, so much has wealth and.. potential has been sucked away that it's somehow more profitable for the industry to move on to influencing and directing outrage. "The attention economy" is the new state of things. Too much production for humans to consume it all. We have articles talking about "peak attention". How dehumanizing is that? Your attention and your thoughts have been commoditized. Companies pump it like oil and sell it back to you. We live on a mountain of abstractions that dehumanize us as individuals and stir us all together into a slurry of hardly dissimilar demographic chunks.
It'll be interesting to see what's next.
[deleted]
I remember reading about a large company in Russia doing something at least 4 or 5 years ago (I think it was Lamoda?) where they sent along a "fashion assistant" with your selection of clothes.
The fashion assistant drives to your place with all the clothes you want to try, waits for you to try them on, perhaps offers some suggestions, and then leaves with whatever you don't want.
Has this type of idea ever been explored in the US?
The fashion assistant drives to your place with all the clothes you want to try, waits for you to try them on, perhaps offers some suggestions, and then leaves with whatever you don't want.
Has this type of idea ever been explored in the US?
As a large guy, this could be potentially a big deal (no pun intended). I hate clothes shopping, and usually wind up having to try on 2 sizes of everything, sometimes the larger size fits, sometimes the smaller... often I need to have a collar lifted regardless.
Frankly, if custom ordering shirts/pants weren't hard to do right and as costly, I'd just do that.
Frankly, if custom ordering shirts/pants weren't hard to do right and as costly, I'd just do that.
Noticed there's a flag on certain items for Prime Wardrobe. Since there's a 3 item minimum I wonder if this is really just a way to force people to buy more than they normally would.
They do the same thing (kinda) with Prime Exclusives, which are laughably almost always available at Walmart and Target for the same price or cheaper...
They do the same thing (kinda) with Prime Exclusives, which are laughably almost always available at Walmart and Target for the same price or cheaper...
The most annoying thing (to me) on Amazon is the fact that some items can only be bought as PrimePantry shipments.
I understand PrimePantry for heavy/bulky items like laundry detergent. I don't get it for lightweight stuff like razor blades. I can't figure out why those items can't be bought as Add-On items to regular shipments.
I understand PrimePantry for heavy/bulky items like laundry detergent. I don't get it for lightweight stuff like razor blades. I can't figure out why those items can't be bought as Add-On items to regular shipments.
Even addon-items. I'd gladly pay extra to ship them. But no, gotta force me to buy 30 dollars of junk I don't need all for a little box of paperclips.
My girlfriend does this already, but uses the return system from various stores. Buys identical things in different sizes to see what fits best, returns the ones that does not fit.
Makes sense to have the discount if you keep items, savings from processing returns.
Makes sense to have the discount if you keep items, savings from processing returns.
As a retailer I hate this style and we make sure we add a hefty restocking fee if an outfit is no longer in a pristine condition. We compete on price, strive to bring best deal US-wide to our customers, but can't really sustain/accept model allowing this. It's also unbelievably damaging to environment and customers like this aren't worth anything to us.
Seems to me it's a cost of doing business if you're selling clothes online - unless the industry wants to get off its ass and start offering standard sizes that are actually standard sizes, rather than the status quo where a '36 inch' waist can mean a 41 inch waist [1].
[1] http://www.esquire.com/style/mens-fashion/a8386/pants-size-c...
[1] http://www.esquire.com/style/mens-fashion/a8386/pants-size-c...
As a customer, you sound like a retailer isn't ready to adapt to the customers needs. Buying multiple sizes and returning the ones that don't fit is no different than trying the clothes on in a changing room and keeping the ones that fit, except it's possible from a remote location.
>It's also unbelievably damaging to environment
Citation needed. Are we talking about the fuel costs from picking up and delivering a package?
>customers like this aren't worth anything to us
It sounds like you have an attitude around retail that isn't very future-proof. I feel that, if your attitude persists, soon you will find that the customers do not think your business is worth anything to them.
>It's also unbelievably damaging to environment
Citation needed. Are we talking about the fuel costs from picking up and delivering a package?
>customers like this aren't worth anything to us
It sounds like you have an attitude around retail that isn't very future-proof. I feel that, if your attitude persists, soon you will find that the customers do not think your business is worth anything to them.
We are in business to earn money, give a great service, not to support "spoiled" 1st-world customers, and made a conscious decision not doing this kind of service. Obviously, non-standard sizes are a problem you can't avoid while shopping online and sometimes we can negotiate a return back to manufacturer even after outfits were opened/used, but we can't afford to subsidy customers in this fashion. If they could find a better deal elsewhere, we would be out of business for sure, but we aren't.
Why exactly is this unbelievably damaging to environment is an exercise left to the reader.
Why exactly is this unbelievably damaging to environment is an exercise left to the reader.
Like food business must deal with the cold-chain, Clothes businesses have distinctive features other retail areas don't have, there's a reason fitting rooms exists in clothing brick & mortar stores.
How do you replicate the fitting room experience online? with colors you can see differently on a monitor, texture you can't feel, sizes for each body type that are different, etc. , the best way today is to order more and return.
> Why exactly is this unbelievably damaging to environment is an exercise left to the reader.
Well people need to find clothes that fits them. So they're either left with going to a brick & mortar store, or ordering online and returning items that don't fit.
Me and all other customers driving to the outlet malls (assuming that mall has all the stores we're interested in, otherwise drive to each store separately), and driving back in our cars is certainly more damaging to the environment than one extra shipping, given that UPS, USPS, Fedex and everybody involved in the transportation business is making sure they're wasting the least amount of gas.
How do you replicate the fitting room experience online? with colors you can see differently on a monitor, texture you can't feel, sizes for each body type that are different, etc. , the best way today is to order more and return.
> Why exactly is this unbelievably damaging to environment is an exercise left to the reader.
Well people need to find clothes that fits them. So they're either left with going to a brick & mortar store, or ordering online and returning items that don't fit.
Me and all other customers driving to the outlet malls (assuming that mall has all the stores we're interested in, otherwise drive to each store separately), and driving back in our cars is certainly more damaging to the environment than one extra shipping, given that UPS, USPS, Fedex and everybody involved in the transportation business is making sure they're wasting the least amount of gas.
I get where bitL is coming from.
I was just thinking about a compromise model: what if a retailer would deal with the send/return cost once as a bit of configuration and customer acquisition cost and profile the choices to a standard type of fit. Then from that point on you could shop just for the type of clothing that will fit you well, and would only be able to return if you could show that it wasn't the case.
It obviously wouldn't work with standard brands of clothing since the fit there can be so variable, but if they clothing would be engineered for this I could see it working. It would be an interesting trade off for customers to consider. In the end you get lower prices, unless the real standardization is too costly.
Seems like something lots of people would go for. It seems like more and more people are aware of all the things that are priced into goods, like the cost of physical shops or the cost of shipping/returns for online retailers.
I was just thinking about a compromise model: what if a retailer would deal with the send/return cost once as a bit of configuration and customer acquisition cost and profile the choices to a standard type of fit. Then from that point on you could shop just for the type of clothing that will fit you well, and would only be able to return if you could show that it wasn't the case.
It obviously wouldn't work with standard brands of clothing since the fit there can be so variable, but if they clothing would be engineered for this I could see it working. It would be an interesting trade off for customers to consider. In the end you get lower prices, unless the real standardization is too costly.
Seems like something lots of people would go for. It seems like more and more people are aware of all the things that are priced into goods, like the cost of physical shops or the cost of shipping/returns for online retailers.
Yes, if we could employ some advanced model (ML or alike) to estimate fit depending on previous experience of the customer, that would be a huge efficiency gain. Actually, it might be the next big thing when you think about it...
I work at a company doing retail return analytics (pretty niche) and we've found that looking at returning customer segments gives a wider picture. In many cases, high returning customers can be your most profitable in the long term even after considering cost of returns. Particular segments keep more than any other (from a financial perspective) despite being returning a disporportionate amount of the things they buy. They're the most loyal, most tolerant and often the highest value customers.
What are your "return segments" or whatever you call them?
I work in a store that has, on average, 200-250 returns a day (1/10 sales/traffic). It's a very popular store.
I would segment this way (without any data, just envelope) in no particular order:
Buy A Lot & Return Some or All
Occasional Honest Jane
Mad As Hell With Wild Expectations
Scammers (part 1); Return counter is a bank
Scammers (part 2): Free lease of equipment
Scammers (part 3): Online Returns
Scammers (part 4): Garage Sale Pickups
Scammers (part 5): Anything Electronic or Gift Card-esque
Scammers (part 6): Stolen Goods
Scammers (part 7): "Last 15 minute Jack"
Shoplifter
I clearly see that we affect customer behavior if we turn the screws on our policy.
I work in a store that has, on average, 200-250 returns a day (1/10 sales/traffic). It's a very popular store.
I would segment this way (without any data, just envelope) in no particular order:
Buy A Lot & Return Some or All
Occasional Honest Jane
Mad As Hell With Wild Expectations
Scammers (part 1); Return counter is a bank
Scammers (part 2): Free lease of equipment
Scammers (part 3): Online Returns
Scammers (part 4): Garage Sale Pickups
Scammers (part 5): Anything Electronic or Gift Card-esque
Scammers (part 6): Stolen Goods
Scammers (part 7): "Last 15 minute Jack"
Shoplifter
I clearly see that we affect customer behavior if we turn the screws on our policy.
Clothing retail is super low margin unless you sell high-end luxury goods. This approach eats basically all the profit and it's not worth for us to have an average gain of $0.01 on such a customer; we go gladly without them. It's also like some photographers buy an outfit for a photoshoot and return it back right after they are done. We can then only sell it off for scraps on eBay etc. giving us both headache and unnecessary work. If Amazon wants those customers and burn money on them, let them.
We work primarily with fashion retailers. Our customers have fairly high margins even though their clothes range from low end to high end.
Wear and return is certainly prevalent though our customers see it more often in occasion-wear (for example bridesmaid dresses). Their average customer values (even their highest returning customers) far exceed $0.01. I'd be really interested in learning why things are so different at your organisation (not that I doubt you but it would make for a really interesting dataset!)
We generally try to help clients integrate returns prediction into their business rules. For example if you've got scarcity of stock, perhaps prioritise customers who are most likely to keep items. Or if you're handling customer calls at the contact centre, prioritise customers who are returns sensitive (those who probably won't shop with you ever again if they have a poor returns experience).
Wear and return is certainly prevalent though our customers see it more often in occasion-wear (for example bridesmaid dresses). Their average customer values (even their highest returning customers) far exceed $0.01. I'd be really interested in learning why things are so different at your organisation (not that I doubt you but it would make for a really interesting dataset!)
We generally try to help clients integrate returns prediction into their business rules. For example if you've got scarcity of stock, perhaps prioritise customers who are most likely to keep items. Or if you're handling customer calls at the contact centre, prioritise customers who are returns sensitive (those who probably won't shop with you ever again if they have a poor returns experience).
Well they're worth something to Amazon!
Kohl's is huge and they do this at scale. Of course, if you're an independent retailer, I can see how this would be difficult.
What's your website?
How does this differentiate from the offerings of other clothiers like TrunkClub (which is a Nordstrom's acquisition)?
Perhaps because it's not a subscription model in the way TC works, people feel less pressure to keep something?
Perhaps because it's not a subscription model in the way TC works, people feel less pressure to keep something?
I think the 10-20% discounts based on keeping 3-5 items is one point of appeal.
Also the fact that you are the one choosing the items in the box as opposed to having a "stylist" choose them for you could be considered appealing (depending on the person).
Also the fact that you are the one choosing the items in the box as opposed to having a "stylist" choose them for you could be considered appealing (depending on the person).
> How does this differentiate from the offerings of other clothiers like TrunkClub (which is a Nordstrom's acquisition)?
...because it's Amazon.
No, seriously. Having a feature working somewhere on the internet, is totally different from having it working on Facebook, Google, or Amazon. Usage goes through the roof, because people already know and trust those behemoths.
...because it's Amazon.
No, seriously. Having a feature working somewhere on the internet, is totally different from having it working on Facebook, Google, or Amazon. Usage goes through the roof, because people already know and trust those behemoths.
^Also true
So does this mean I'm going to start getting other people's bedbugs if I buy clothes on amazon?
First they came for the booksellers, and I did not speak out - for I was not Barnes and Noble.
Then they came for retailers, and I did not speak out - for I was not Macy's.
Then they came for the cloud, and I did not speak out - for I was not IBM.
Then they came for grocery delivery, and I did not speak out - for I was not PeaPod.
Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.
RIP TrunkClub and Stitch Fix?
Then they came for retailers, and I did not speak out - for I was not Macy's.
Then they came for the cloud, and I did not speak out - for I was not IBM.
Then they came for grocery delivery, and I did not speak out - for I was not PeaPod.
Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.
RIP TrunkClub and Stitch Fix?
Wow, borrowing a Holocaust quote.
You just compared good customer service to the largest genocide in human history.
You just compared good customer service to the largest genocide in human history.
You lost me at IBM. They don't even use their own cloud.
I think the moment that Amazon starts figuring out and recommending clothes to their end users... yeah, RIP TrunkClub and StitchFix.
The question unanswered is: What are the limits?
- Can I have a box each week?
- How many items can I put in the box?
- Do they need to be washed until return?
Why buy, when I can get free ones every week for a fee I already potentionally pay?
- Can I have a box each week?
- How many items can I put in the box?
- Do they need to be washed until return?
Why buy, when I can get free ones every week for a fee I already potentionally pay?
The best way to get clothes for photo sessions :)