Dan Gillmor: This Mac devotee is moving to Linux(salon.com)
salon.com
Dan Gillmor: This Mac devotee is moving to Linux
http://www.salon.com/technology/dan_gillmor/2010/06/20/from_mac_to_linux/index.html
17 comments
I was actually disappointed to learn that his move was a political one. He started really great with "My strategy is to use what works best, period." That should have been the best reason to switch. It was, in my case: playing with random OSS projects is much easier on Linux because most often it's the #1 target platform for software I'm interested in.
Speaking of "use what works best": I still have the MBP to run Photoshop, precisely for that reason.
Speaking of "use what works best": I still have the MBP to run Photoshop, precisely for that reason.
That should have been the best reason to switch.
I'm pretty sure most early Linux adopters switched from whatever proprietary platform they were using for political reasons (i.e. freedom). I'd argue that without the people who switched for political reasons, Linux would never have acquired its current level of awesomeness.
I'm pretty sure most early Linux adopters switched from whatever proprietary platform they were using for political reasons (i.e. freedom). I'd argue that without the people who switched for political reasons, Linux would never have acquired its current level of awesomeness.
"Playing with random OSS projects is much easier on Linux"
I couldn't agree more. I am primarily a .NET/Windows programmer, but I have an Ubuntu VM that I have been using to hack on OSS-based work I've been doing recently. Package managers make it super simple to get everything up and running quickly, and mean I can keep each of my machine's VMs up to date with whatever new thing I'm mucking around with.
I couldn't agree more. I am primarily a .NET/Windows programmer, but I have an Ubuntu VM that I have been using to hack on OSS-based work I've been doing recently. Package managers make it super simple to get everything up and running quickly, and mean I can keep each of my machine's VMs up to date with whatever new thing I'm mucking around with.
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He made the specific claim in the article that he believes the cost of switching operating systems escalates with time; if he sees it as inevitable that OSX will go walled, it's reasonable for him to cut his losses now.
I don't necessarily agree with him that OSX will inevitably go walled, but given that belief his behavior is sensible.
I don't necessarily agree with him that OSX will inevitably go walled, but given that belief his behavior is sensible.
he believes the cost of switching operating systems escalates with time
Where's the evidence for that?
Desktop OS behavior has been converging for years. Linux gradually gets more and more features that were formerly restricted to proprietary systems (e.g. iPod compatibility). Emulators have gotten better. The hardware has converged: Everything runs on Intel now. The OS has converged: Everything runs with Unix underneath now. The browsers have converged: there's Webkit browsers for Mac, and Webkit browsers for Linux.
What makes it harder to move from Mac to Linux (or vice versa) than it was, say, three years ago, or five years ago?
What I really don't understand is how you can simultaneously argue that Apple isn't going to continue introducing new Mac OS features and that Mac OS is going to get increasingly hard to migrate away from. Stationary targets are easy to hit. It's moving targets that are difficult to track.
Where's the evidence for that?
Desktop OS behavior has been converging for years. Linux gradually gets more and more features that were formerly restricted to proprietary systems (e.g. iPod compatibility). Emulators have gotten better. The hardware has converged: Everything runs on Intel now. The OS has converged: Everything runs with Unix underneath now. The browsers have converged: there's Webkit browsers for Mac, and Webkit browsers for Linux.
What makes it harder to move from Mac to Linux (or vice versa) than it was, say, three years ago, or five years ago?
What I really don't understand is how you can simultaneously argue that Apple isn't going to continue introducing new Mac OS features and that Mac OS is going to get increasingly hard to migrate away from. Stationary targets are easy to hit. It's moving targets that are difficult to track.
The cost escalates even if the OSes don't change, because you've invested more effort and have more data to migrate.
not for a lot of us. All of my code is in a repo somewhere. All of my notes/docs are in a cloud service somewhere. Etc, etc.
The only thing that I have to move is my personal/family stuff. Movies, music, pictures, etc.
The only thing that I have to move is my personal/family stuff. Movies, music, pictures, etc.
I think you're underestimating the effect of habit. As you work in an environment and become comfortable with it, you develop a workflow that supports that work. The longer you spend in a given environment, the more difficult it is when you finally do switch and have to relearn fundamental things.
Fortunately for those switching from Mac to Linux, several people have made the switch already (or use both simultaneously) and have written free software to mimic much of the functionality they came to expect with Mac and missed in Linux.
Fortunately for those switching from Mac to Linux, several people have made the switch already (or use both simultaneously) and have written free software to mimic much of the functionality they came to expect with Mac and missed in Linux.
I won't pretend to know what the author was thinking, but one obvious answer is that the central authority approach makes data lock-in a whole lot easier.
Is there actually evidence for increasing data lock-in though? It seems to me that we’re all using compatible and often openly standardized formats for the files we create/consume on our local machines slightly more often than in the past, or else are storing data in web apps, where it’s accessible from any platform with a browser.
I think his worry is that Apple will extend their control over what software can be installed from the iphone/ipad/itouch realm to their PCs. That would dramatically increase the cost of switching.
The optimal time to switch would be after Apple announces OS X Evil Empire Edition, but before they ship it. Switching earlier (as Gillmor is doing) has no benefit.
This reminds me of a Grigori Perelman quote (the guy who turned down the Fields Medal and the Millennium Prize on principal):
"There are many mathematicians who are more or less honest. But almost all of them are conformists. They are more or less honest, but they tolerate those who are not honest.”
Apple not only "tolerates" walled-gardens, they build them and encourage others to do so. That is enough reason to not use a Mac.
"There are many mathematicians who are more or less honest. But almost all of them are conformists. They are more or less honest, but they tolerate those who are not honest.”
Apple not only "tolerates" walled-gardens, they build them and encourage others to do so. That is enough reason to not use a Mac.
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Or perhaps, more to the point he could keep the MacBook but drop the iPhone (assuming he hasn't already.)
However, one good reason he has to move now as opposed to later, is that later might be too late. Moving to a new platform can be costly and difficult and Linux can be trickier than most to pick up. He might want to have more experience with it when the time comes to drop Mac entirely if that's his goal.
However, one good reason he has to move now as opposed to later, is that later might be too late. Moving to a new platform can be costly and difficult and Linux can be trickier than most to pick up. He might want to have more experience with it when the time comes to drop Mac entirely if that's his goal.
This guy sounds like quite the martyr if he is indeed leaving the platform he's been using for more than a decade on political grounds. I think he's either lying to try and stir up a response from Apple or he's that crazy. Linux isn't easy to get into, but going from one platform to any other is going to take a lot of effort.
>Linux isn't easy to get into
I moved into Linux from a background in Windows. The way I did it was to start by gradually replacing the proprietary Windows applications I was using with FOSS equivalents that had good cross-platform support.
The next step was to install Ubuntu as a dual-boot onto my secondary computer and play around with it. I quickly determined that it was considerably easier to do most of the things I do on computers under Ubuntu than it was under Windows. Going back to my primary OS came to feel more and more like returning to prison after a weekend pass.
When it came time to replace my main PC, I bought a new box with no OS and installed Ubuntu as my primary system. Migrating my data was painless, since it was all stored in open formats by this time (moving my email was particularly nice - I just grabbed my Thunderbird profile and dragged it across to the new computer).
The final test was my wife, who is not that interested in technology and just wants the computer to work. The transition was painless for her, since she could use all the same applications on the new computer that she had been accustomed to using on the old.
I moved into Linux from a background in Windows. The way I did it was to start by gradually replacing the proprietary Windows applications I was using with FOSS equivalents that had good cross-platform support.
The next step was to install Ubuntu as a dual-boot onto my secondary computer and play around with it. I quickly determined that it was considerably easier to do most of the things I do on computers under Ubuntu than it was under Windows. Going back to my primary OS came to feel more and more like returning to prison after a weekend pass.
When it came time to replace my main PC, I bought a new box with no OS and installed Ubuntu as my primary system. Migrating my data was painless, since it was all stored in open formats by this time (moving my email was particularly nice - I just grabbed my Thunderbird profile and dragged it across to the new computer).
The final test was my wife, who is not that interested in technology and just wants the computer to work. The transition was painless for her, since she could use all the same applications on the new computer that she had been accustomed to using on the old.
This strikes me as an especially misguided, misinformed expedition. To start out on your journey by purchasing a notebook that's incompatible is a sure sign you're doing something wrong. Like a man protesting the oil spill in the gulf by abandoning their car only to buy a goat instead of a horse by accident.
Why do people rail against Apple for making the iOS "walled garden" and yet have nothing to say about Sony or Microsoft and their locked down game platforms? At least Apple lets people produce applications and opens up their marketplace to everyday people. Microsoft charges an extraordinary amount of money for their 360 developer kit, XNA being a toy when compared with the real thing. The PS3, likewise, is way beyond the reach of any hobbyist.
Apple charges $99 for the developer kit, cost of Mac notwithstanding, and your application has a very good chance of being accepted. Call the App Store what you will, but it's a very good place to do business.
Why do people rail against Apple for making the iOS "walled garden" and yet have nothing to say about Sony or Microsoft and their locked down game platforms? At least Apple lets people produce applications and opens up their marketplace to everyday people. Microsoft charges an extraordinary amount of money for their 360 developer kit, XNA being a toy when compared with the real thing. The PS3, likewise, is way beyond the reach of any hobbyist.
Apple charges $99 for the developer kit, cost of Mac notwithstanding, and your application has a very good chance of being accepted. Call the App Store what you will, but it's a very good place to do business.
Why do people rail against Apple for making the iOS "walled garden" and yet have nothing to say about Sony or Microsoft and their locked down game platforms?
Consoles aren't trying to replace general purpose computers, iOS devices are.
Consoles aren't trying to replace general purpose computers, iOS devices are.
And you don't think that Apple has sent the clear message that they don't see the iPad or iPhone as a general purpose computing device?
I think they've done a pretty great job of indicating that these are appliances and are not to be considered as a smaller Mac. I don't think this is necessarily the right thing to do, but sometimes you need a dictatorship before a democracy. It'll be interesting to see how this pans out.
I think they've done a pretty great job of indicating that these are appliances and are not to be considered as a smaller Mac. I don't think this is necessarily the right thing to do, but sometimes you need a dictatorship before a democracy. It'll be interesting to see how this pans out.
And you don't think that Apple has sent the clear message that they don't see the iPad or iPhone as a general purpose computing device?
My point exactly: in Apple's world, general purpose computing is gradually going away. My prediction is that in 5 to 10 years, the ability to run software of your choice on Apple products will be limited to ludicrously priced "pro" and "developer" systems. If the rest of the industry follows suit, as Microsoft is doing with Windows 7 phones, it's not going to be fun.
My point exactly: in Apple's world, general purpose computing is gradually going away. My prediction is that in 5 to 10 years, the ability to run software of your choice on Apple products will be limited to ludicrously priced "pro" and "developer" systems. If the rest of the industry follows suit, as Microsoft is doing with Windows 7 phones, it's not going to be fun.
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No, Apple has not sent that message. The hugely successful, continuing "there's an app for that" campaign actually sends the exact opposite message.
Some people are replacing their computers with the iPad and the iPhone. The media is doing a very good job of saying that the iDevices are the future of computing.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9175600/The_iPad_is_t...
http://gizmodo.com/5506692/ipad-is-the-future
http://www.macworld.com/article/146038/2010/01/ipad_future_s...
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/02/ipad-future/
http://techcrunch.com/2010/01/27/ipad/
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9175600/The_iPad_is_t...
http://gizmodo.com/5506692/ipad-is-the-future
http://www.macworld.com/article/146038/2010/01/ipad_future_s...
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/02/ipad-future/
http://techcrunch.com/2010/01/27/ipad/
I think you miss the point. iOS is part of the Apple stack, and to Gilmore's point, development of the main OS X platform has been shifted towards iOS. The whole Apple set up assumes you use OS X + iOS + iPods, etc.
Sony have nothing to do with being part of the stack of any operating system, and while Microsoft owns XBOX it too has little-to-no integration with Windows. Your comparison therefore seems irrelevant.
Comparing the Apple App store as a 'better place to do business' than XBox or Sony PlayStation is also strange as the two are completely different in terms of proposition, customer demographic, development resource requirement and potential return on investment.
Sony have nothing to do with being part of the stack of any operating system, and while Microsoft owns XBOX it too has little-to-no integration with Windows. Your comparison therefore seems irrelevant.
Comparing the Apple App store as a 'better place to do business' than XBox or Sony PlayStation is also strange as the two are completely different in terms of proposition, customer demographic, development resource requirement and potential return on investment.
Yeah this guy has it backwards. OSX is still a *nix. It's still open, and you can do more or less anything you would need with it.
It's the iOS devices that are locked down. The lock down was one of the major reasons i got a Nexus One instead of an iphone.
Protest Apple where their behavior is bad, not where their behavior is decent.
It's the iOS devices that are locked down. The lock down was one of the major reasons i got a Nexus One instead of an iphone.
Protest Apple where their behavior is bad, not where their behavior is decent.
Same: I bought a Nexus One because I was upset with Apple's approach with the iPhone.
My primary concern with Apple and the iOS platform is how they block applications that they view as strategically damaging. The best examples are Google Voice and any ad platform other than iAds for use within apps.
Do I miss the iPhone? I miss the "Apple experience" in some ways, but not enough to move back.
I think Apple is underestimating the power of small but influential communities like this one (followers of Hacker News). The more technologically fluent one is, the more likely you are to move away from the iPhone . . . even though you may have used and loved Apple products for years.
Losing this community will not affect sales numbers directly, but it will affect investment of ideas into the iOS platform over time.
I anticipate more innovation on Android than on iOS until Apple changes their protectionist ways.
My primary concern with Apple and the iOS platform is how they block applications that they view as strategically damaging. The best examples are Google Voice and any ad platform other than iAds for use within apps.
Do I miss the iPhone? I miss the "Apple experience" in some ways, but not enough to move back.
I think Apple is underestimating the power of small but influential communities like this one (followers of Hacker News). The more technologically fluent one is, the more likely you are to move away from the iPhone . . . even though you may have used and loved Apple products for years.
Losing this community will not affect sales numbers directly, but it will affect investment of ideas into the iOS platform over time.
I anticipate more innovation on Android than on iOS until Apple changes their protectionist ways.
If you disagree with a company's policies it's much more effective to boycott them entirely than it is to boycott individual products.
Why? If they see their sales decline equally in distinct products under both objectionable and reasonable policies, shouldn't they assume they have a branding problem rather than a policy problem?
It's not my responsibility to pay for the privilege of giving them data. If they want to know why someone switches they can ask.
It is *nix, ish. Everything works, ish. Sometimes there are really isoteric workarounds for certain things, and some things plain just don't work. I've been much happier just switching to Linux than if I had continued to struggle with OS X.
OS X is a UNIX (http://images.apple.com/macosx/technology/docs/L416017A_UNIX...) Linux, on the other hand, is not. (Though it is UNIX-like.)
Certification is meaningless when stuff doesn't run.
Then you might as well run Windows. Technically, OS X is superior to Linux in a number of areas.
Not to be a dick, but I always feel like these operating system posts are written by people who haven't ever written an operating system kernel. I wish people would just use whatever they want and stop taking pot shots at operating systems they really don't know anything about. This isn't really targeted at you specifically, Daishiman.
Not to be a dick, but I always feel like these operating system posts are written by people who haven't ever written an operating system kernel. I wish people would just use whatever they want and stop taking pot shots at operating systems they really don't know anything about. This isn't really targeted at you specifically, Daishiman.
Your post doesn't have anything to do with my claim, which is that despite it being a certified Unix, it doesn't change the fact that many FOSS apps are difficult to get up and running. Same thing with HP-UX or AIX.
Actually, the iPhone is a UNIX too. Jailbreak it (and install the UNIX utilities) and you have SSH access to it. You can compile and install all sorts of *nixy things on it.
However, the default kernel state is require a codesign for everything.
However, the default kernel state is require a codesign for everything.
I'm a Ubuntu user myself, but I found it a bit amusing that he bought a laptop to run Linux, and the laptop can't run Linux.
There isn't an easy place to find out how well various laptops are supported. Years ago I decided to buy a laptop and did a lot of research to find one that worked well with Linux, and I found many people who claimed to have Linux working well on their laptops. However, when I looked for detailed information and dug into write-ups people did, I found that there were always problems. Suspend and hibernate didn't work right, usually, and various laptops had various other issues as well. Config files had to be changed, firmware had to be patched, kernel patches from obscure places had to be applied, and surprisingly often there was a small kernel patch written by the author himself. I would find these problems in reports of "success" stories, so I just assumed that everyone was struggling, and people who said they had no problems had crazy expertise and were just like the people who said the Linux desktop was totally awesome and fine in 1999.
As the situation of Linux on laptops has improved, however, it's been harder to find installation write-ups, which probably means that people who have no problems simply do not bother posting detailed accounts of the fact that they have no problems! I mean, here's one, but how many people are meticulous enough to write a blog post about the fact that their laptop works, and then add the post to http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/ so I can find it?
http://wernerroth.de/index.php/2009/12/18/kubuntu-910-runs-a...
So true success stories are mostly invisible, or at least outwardly look the same as the "success" stories where a guy applied six kernel patches and wrote a shell script that he runs manually whenever he needs to hibernate and claims, "Hey, wow, my laptop works great now, and it was so easy!"
For a person like me, who doesn't want purchasing a laptop to turn into a major educational experience, it would be nice to have some way of knowing whether a specific laptop will work out of the box with major Linux distributions.
As the situation of Linux on laptops has improved, however, it's been harder to find installation write-ups, which probably means that people who have no problems simply do not bother posting detailed accounts of the fact that they have no problems! I mean, here's one, but how many people are meticulous enough to write a blog post about the fact that their laptop works, and then add the post to http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/ so I can find it?
http://wernerroth.de/index.php/2009/12/18/kubuntu-910-runs-a...
So true success stories are mostly invisible, or at least outwardly look the same as the "success" stories where a guy applied six kernel patches and wrote a shell script that he runs manually whenever he needs to hibernate and claims, "Hey, wow, my laptop works great now, and it was so easy!"
For a person like me, who doesn't want purchasing a laptop to turn into a major educational experience, it would be nice to have some way of knowing whether a specific laptop will work out of the box with major Linux distributions.
Isn't this at least partly the manufacturer's fault? I think Ubuntu is trying to work with PC makers to get drivers written and tested before the hardware ships.
Maybe it's a bit chicken-and-egg to get that to happen - people won't buy Linux boxes until it works on every machine, but makers won't try to get it to work on their machines until people are buying Linux boxes.
I did manage to buy a Linux box from Dell a while back. Even though I immediately wiped their custom install and upgraded to the latest version, set up dual-boot, etc, buying one with Ubuntu pre-installed was the best way I could determine to make sure the hardware would actually be compatible.
Maybe it's a bit chicken-and-egg to get that to happen - people won't buy Linux boxes until it works on every machine, but makers won't try to get it to work on their machines until people are buying Linux boxes.
I did manage to buy a Linux box from Dell a while back. Even though I immediately wiped their custom install and upgraded to the latest version, set up dual-boot, etc, buying one with Ubuntu pre-installed was the best way I could determine to make sure the hardware would actually be compatible.
Yeah, I definitely think it's a chicken-and-egg problem. In general, my experience is that the hardware that has official support in Linux works much better there than in other OS'es.
Things are certainly getting better than they used to be, now I'm more surprised if things like wifi and webcams don't work out of the box, whereas a while ago, it was almost a certainty that they wouldn't.
Things are certainly getting better than they used to be, now I'm more surprised if things like wifi and webcams don't work out of the box, whereas a while ago, it was almost a certainty that they wouldn't.
It's weird; I have one of those Thinkpads, and it works great with Ubuntu.
Yeah, I've always found Thinkpads to be some of the most compatible machines for running Linux (after Dell business machines, which tend to/used to be spec'd to be available for purchase with an Ubuntu flavor).
I do think Thinkpads have lost some of their *nix roots since the Lenovo split because IBM was traditionally a big supporter of Linux, Lenovo less so.
I do think Thinkpads have lost some of their *nix roots since the Lenovo split because IBM was traditionally a big supporter of Linux, Lenovo less so.
I'm running on a ThinkPad X41. It has the following issues:
- The headphone jack stops working after the second suspend-to-ram after a fresh reboot. The only way to get it working again (without rebooting) is to suspend-to-disk (hibernate). It will then work until after the next time I wake from suspend-to-ram.
- I'm still on Jaunty, but the last couple of revisions of Ubuntu failed to correctly detect and set-up scrolling on my TrackPoint. Prior to the move to evdev, it worked out of the box. There are various write-ups on ubuntuforums.org and blog posts about the fix, but IIRC as of 9.10 it still wasn't in the default install. It may be working now.
- Both the Cardbus slot and the SD reader slot work out of the box, but they seem to have IRQ issues. Reading data off of either slot (the only cardbus card I have is a CompactFlash reader) causes the system to slow to a crawl with hte mouse jerking all over the place and windows refreshing at a snail's pace.
- The mute button only mutes. Pressing it a second time does not unmute the audio. I suspect this is as the BIOS level, but GNOME sees the second press and thinks that the sound is un-muted, and thus reports sound as un-muted. (The only way to un-mute is to hit the volume up or down buttons)
All of that said my biggest gripes with the X41 are the lack of a working headphone jack, and the fact that IBM didn't use a standard 2.5" hard drive. I'm stuck with a max of 60GB of space due to their usage of non-standard 1.8" hard drives.
- The headphone jack stops working after the second suspend-to-ram after a fresh reboot. The only way to get it working again (without rebooting) is to suspend-to-disk (hibernate). It will then work until after the next time I wake from suspend-to-ram.
- I'm still on Jaunty, but the last couple of revisions of Ubuntu failed to correctly detect and set-up scrolling on my TrackPoint. Prior to the move to evdev, it worked out of the box. There are various write-ups on ubuntuforums.org and blog posts about the fix, but IIRC as of 9.10 it still wasn't in the default install. It may be working now.
- Both the Cardbus slot and the SD reader slot work out of the box, but they seem to have IRQ issues. Reading data off of either slot (the only cardbus card I have is a CompactFlash reader) causes the system to slow to a crawl with hte mouse jerking all over the place and windows refreshing at a snail's pace.
- The mute button only mutes. Pressing it a second time does not unmute the audio. I suspect this is as the BIOS level, but GNOME sees the second press and thinks that the sound is un-muted, and thus reports sound as un-muted. (The only way to un-mute is to hit the volume up or down buttons)
All of that said my biggest gripes with the X41 are the lack of a working headphone jack, and the fact that IBM didn't use a standard 2.5" hard drive. I'm stuck with a max of 60GB of space due to their usage of non-standard 1.8" hard drives.
I have a recent Thinkpad X201 (got in May) and it required some tweaking to get any kind of graphics (even for the OS installer itself) to work with Lucid Lynx.
Some features still don't work as well as they do under Windows 7 on the same machine, mostly in power management department:
- Battery life is not as good (4 hours max)
- Fan seems to be on more under Linux
- Screen brightness can't be adjusted
- Fingerprint scanner doesn't work, but I don't need it anyway
Otherwise, the machine is great under Ubuntu:
- It's fast and powerful but very light
- Easily fits into any bag (12 inch screen)
- Quite sturdy construction
- 500GB of hard drive space allows me to run any kind of VMs I need
- Up to 8GB of RAM
- 802.11n networking (works fine with Ubuntu)
- All of this for about $1200 Canadian, including taxes (13%) and shipping - it was under a promotion
Some features still don't work as well as they do under Windows 7 on the same machine, mostly in power management department:
- Battery life is not as good (4 hours max)
- Fan seems to be on more under Linux
- Screen brightness can't be adjusted
- Fingerprint scanner doesn't work, but I don't need it anyway
Otherwise, the machine is great under Ubuntu:
- It's fast and powerful but very light
- Easily fits into any bag (12 inch screen)
- Quite sturdy construction
- 500GB of hard drive space allows me to run any kind of VMs I need
- Up to 8GB of RAM
- 802.11n networking (works fine with Ubuntu)
- All of this for about $1200 Canadian, including taxes (13%) and shipping - it was under a promotion
Ditto this, although I did have a few issues when trying to run the 64-bit version. That had more to do with 3rd party driver support than Ubuntu itself, though. I'm completely addicted to the lightning quick boot times of Linux on modern hardware.
And, slightly older MacBooks always run Ubuntu great :-)
I thought that was surprising also. ThinkPads have a good track record of Linux compatibility.
Is it IBM versus Lenovo difference, I wonder? IBM used to be fairly good about using reasonably open or at least industry-standard hardware when they were running the ThinkPad show.
Is it IBM versus Lenovo difference, I wonder? IBM used to be fairly good about using reasonably open or at least industry-standard hardware when they were running the ThinkPad show.
I'm trying to do the same thing with OpenBSD.
A lot of vendor lock in on the ol' MacBook Pro hardware. Broadcom wireless chipset, Nvidia chipset, etc. I've been hacking through my dmesg one by one trying to tackle everything.
Instead of reverse engineering the drivers, like a lot of the community has done (my hats off to you!), I broke down and got a USB wireless stick (rum(4)), and am running on Vesa drivers :) It's not "pretty", but lets me run my WM (xmonad) and everything is still pretty snappy.
It's not something you setup overnight, especially when you've lost your .muttrc and a ton of other crucial dotfiles after spending too much time in OSX land and using their native applications. That's my fault.
Eventually, I'd like to give back to the community, and that's what I'm going to do.
A lot of vendor lock in on the ol' MacBook Pro hardware. Broadcom wireless chipset, Nvidia chipset, etc. I've been hacking through my dmesg one by one trying to tackle everything.
Instead of reverse engineering the drivers, like a lot of the community has done (my hats off to you!), I broke down and got a USB wireless stick (rum(4)), and am running on Vesa drivers :) It's not "pretty", but lets me run my WM (xmonad) and everything is still pretty snappy.
It's not something you setup overnight, especially when you've lost your .muttrc and a ton of other crucial dotfiles after spending too much time in OSX land and using their native applications. That's my fault.
Eventually, I'd like to give back to the community, and that's what I'm going to do.
imho, Ubuntu's user experience (when your computer's hardware is supported out of the box) is now superior than both window's and mac's user experience. Mac's UX is not bad to the extent they have adopted a Gnome like desktop.
Where they strayed away from Linux, the UX is usually inferior, for example the very poor Spaces implementation and that bar at the bottom that doesn't have separate icons for the different opened windows of applications. When I'm on a mac, I'm always shuffling around piles of windows with no good way to organize them and change between them. I'm horrified when I have to press those side mouse button that makes it look like someone sneezed out barely recognizable small versions off all my programs on my monitor. It's like the computer equivalent, for finding a document in a pile of throwing the whole pile across the floor and walking around to find what you are looking for.
My pattern for trying out the latest & greatest Linux distros is something like this:
-- Install: Gets better every time. Rarely have issues anymore with the basics of video, networking, sound, etc.
-- First boot: Gets better every time. Things tend to look nicer, fonts are nicer, icons are better, defaults are more reasonable. Installing software is easy.
-- First week of usage: Defeat that all the usual suspects suggested as alternatives to the apps I use on OSX or Windows just haven't made much progress. They're still borderline unusable or no viable alternatives exist. No amount of perceived freedom justifies downgrading my applications, dual booting, emulating, etc. Just not worth it.
-- Install: Gets better every time. Rarely have issues anymore with the basics of video, networking, sound, etc.
-- First boot: Gets better every time. Things tend to look nicer, fonts are nicer, icons are better, defaults are more reasonable. Installing software is easy.
-- First week of usage: Defeat that all the usual suspects suggested as alternatives to the apps I use on OSX or Windows just haven't made much progress. They're still borderline unusable or no viable alternatives exist. No amount of perceived freedom justifies downgrading my applications, dual booting, emulating, etc. Just not worth it.
> Defeat that all the usual suspects suggested as alternatives to the apps I use on OSX or Windows just haven't made much progress. They're still borderline unusable or no viable alternatives exist.
I pretty much only use my home computer for entertainment purposes, so I haven't had these issues really. I will admit that I prefer to run foobar2000 and Firefox through WINE, but I've mostly been satisfied or happier with the Linux alternatives. There clearly is an issue with some professional applications (GIMP vs PS comes to mind); I'm just curious which ones you have in mind.
I pretty much only use my home computer for entertainment purposes, so I haven't had these issues really. I will admit that I prefer to run foobar2000 and Firefox through WINE, but I've mostly been satisfied or happier with the Linux alternatives. There clearly is an issue with some professional applications (GIMP vs PS comes to mind); I'm just curious which ones you have in mind.
The big ones for me:
-- Logic Express: Not my job -- just a hobbyist. ardour is way too unstable and doesn't even compare to GarageBand in terms of features at this point.
-- OmniGraffle: Big part of my job. Better than Visio IMO. Dia is maybe on par with a 10 year old version of Visio at this point and I haven't seen any significant improvements in Dia in years.
-- iWork: My office needs are pretty simple so on features OpenOffice's feature set is good enough but it's always been buggy and clunky. Just stupid stuff like a dialog box drawing underneath and active window causing the program to appear to be frozen. Compatibility with MS Office formats is subpar even compared to iWork which isn't quite good enough for me not to keep MS Office installed.
-- Mail clients: I still prefer a desktop mail client and I haven't found anything I like on Linux. Evolution is clunky in the UI department. Thunderbird is clunky in the performance department. My IMAP store is kind of big (3GB-ish) so when I was using Linux I actually had to keep both Evolution and Thunderbird installed because one of the two handled big IMAP folders better than the other. (though at this point I can't remember which was which)
-- VPN clients: At this moment I have VPN profiles for Cisco IPSEC, L2TP, PPTP, and use both Cisco & Juniper SSL VPNs on a regular basis. It was too difficult to set them up. At some point Cisco offered a client that handled Cisco IPSEC but it would break every time I did a kernel update. L2TP/PPTP weren't a big problem though I had to fight to make split tunneling work properly. Juniper SSL VPN flat out did not work at the time though I've heard they released Linux support over the last 18 months or so?
There are a few other examples that would be pure personal preference. If I really had to I could use something else but basically I just don't want to. A more motivated person could probably overcome these issues.
-- Logic Express: Not my job -- just a hobbyist. ardour is way too unstable and doesn't even compare to GarageBand in terms of features at this point.
-- OmniGraffle: Big part of my job. Better than Visio IMO. Dia is maybe on par with a 10 year old version of Visio at this point and I haven't seen any significant improvements in Dia in years.
-- iWork: My office needs are pretty simple so on features OpenOffice's feature set is good enough but it's always been buggy and clunky. Just stupid stuff like a dialog box drawing underneath and active window causing the program to appear to be frozen. Compatibility with MS Office formats is subpar even compared to iWork which isn't quite good enough for me not to keep MS Office installed.
-- Mail clients: I still prefer a desktop mail client and I haven't found anything I like on Linux. Evolution is clunky in the UI department. Thunderbird is clunky in the performance department. My IMAP store is kind of big (3GB-ish) so when I was using Linux I actually had to keep both Evolution and Thunderbird installed because one of the two handled big IMAP folders better than the other. (though at this point I can't remember which was which)
-- VPN clients: At this moment I have VPN profiles for Cisco IPSEC, L2TP, PPTP, and use both Cisco & Juniper SSL VPNs on a regular basis. It was too difficult to set them up. At some point Cisco offered a client that handled Cisco IPSEC but it would break every time I did a kernel update. L2TP/PPTP weren't a big problem though I had to fight to make split tunneling work properly. Juniper SSL VPN flat out did not work at the time though I've heard they released Linux support over the last 18 months or so?
There are a few other examples that would be pure personal preference. If I really had to I could use something else but basically I just don't want to. A more motivated person could probably overcome these issues.
Run the following command to add Cisco IPSEC to ubuntu:
sudo apt-get install network-manager-vpnc
> Evolution is clunky in the UI department. Thunderbird is clunky in the performance department.
Did you try Claws Mail? I prefer it to Evolution and Thunderbird.
Did you try Claws Mail? I prefer it to Evolution and Thunderbird.
Kmail (the KDE client) is pretty sane. Worth a shot.
Wait, you run Firefox through WINE? Whatever for?
I used to run Mac OS X, and there's still one or two things I miss about iTunes (album-shuffle in a generated playlist, for example) but Quod Libet fulfils my music playing needs nicely.
One thing I do miss is iPhoto. I'm stumbling along with F-spot at the moment, but so far as I can tell there are no decent photo-management tools available for Linux.
I used to run Mac OS X, and there's still one or two things I miss about iTunes (album-shuffle in a generated playlist, for example) but Quod Libet fulfils my music playing needs nicely.
One thing I do miss is iPhoto. I'm stumbling along with F-spot at the moment, but so far as I can tell there are no decent photo-management tools available for Linux.
Firefox on Linux actually used to be faster through WINE. Insane, but true. I was also dual-booting, and that was an easy way to keep it in sync.
Gimp and vim [1] may be difficult to learn, but invest a little time in them and you won't need anything else [2].
[1] Many would prefer to substitute emacs
[2] This doesn't cover sound or video editing, but there are programs to do that as well.
[1] Many would prefer to substitute emacs
[2] This doesn't cover sound or video editing, but there are programs to do that as well.
This is said tongue-in-cheek, right? There are many people with usage cases that require different things. Hell, I'm a developer and that doesn't come close to describing my workflow.
Vim is totally worth the time, though.
Vim is totally worth the time, though.
This doesn't cover sound or video editing, but there are programs to do that as well.
...like emacs. :)
http://1010.co.uk/gneve.html
...like emacs. :)
http://1010.co.uk/gneve.html
And the sound system is still a mess.
> Mac's UX is not bad to the extent they have adopted a Gnome like desktop.
To be clear, GNOME adopted an OSX like desktop.
To be clear, GNOME adopted an OSX like desktop.
I don't think so. Ideas have flowed both ways, but I've been using Gnome since the 90s and OSX has taken more from Gnome in my opinion than Gnome from OSX.
I hesitate to go down this road, but what features do you think originated in GNOME and found their way into OSX? I think you're giving quite a bit of credit where it is not due.
I know it didn't originate in GNOME, but GNOME was perhaps the most popular environment using virtual desktops at the time that Apple introduced Spaces:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaces_%28software%29#Compariso...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaces_%28software%29#Compariso...
Jesus, virtual desktops have been around since the mid-80s. Crediting them to Gnome is like crediting cars to Preston Tucker.
Virtual desktops are a feature of X11, not GNOME.
Really? Gnome definitely didn't come up with them, and most WMs have virtual desktops, but if you just launch X11 without a WM I definitely don't see any virtual desktops unless I'm missing something.
I'm a little rusty on this stuff (haven't messed with it for ~5 years) but IIRC you have the ICCCM specification and some non-standard but well adopted extensions[1] that define how a window manager communicates with the X server, and in this specification you will find all the virtual desktop goodies that every X window manager implements (including metacity, beryl, kwin, twm, fvwm2, etc).
In short, as far as virtual desktops go, what GNOME (metacity/beryl) does is the exactly same thing every window manager has been doing for the past decade at least, and the concept of virtual desktops (non-ICCCM+ implementations) goes much further back than that.
[1] http://standards.freedesktop.org/wm-spec/wm-spec-latest.html
In short, as far as virtual desktops go, what GNOME (metacity/beryl) does is the exactly same thing every window manager has been doing for the past decade at least, and the concept of virtual desktops (non-ICCCM+ implementations) goes much further back than that.
[1] http://standards.freedesktop.org/wm-spec/wm-spec-latest.html
My guess would be that features you see as "OSX taking from Gnome," both Gnome and OSX got from NeXTStep.
Agreed. There are some apps I miss on Linux (well, maybe just Ableton Live), but I find the experience superior overall too. Certainly this is partly because I'm a very command-line oriented users and Mac and Windows systems just can't compete in that respect, but I also find the gnome UI more efficient and ergonomic.
Laptops can still be a little dodgy though. Support for common desktop hardware is very very good in modern Linuxes but laptops can still require a bit of tweaking. If you want to run Linux on a laptop you need to either do a bit of homework and make sure you buy something that works well or buy a pre-installed machine with support. If a novice friend asked me for advice on switching I'd probably suggest the latter. Nothing takes the shine off a new machine like having to download and compile drivers by hand.
Laptops can still be a little dodgy though. Support for common desktop hardware is very very good in modern Linuxes but laptops can still require a bit of tweaking. If you want to run Linux on a laptop you need to either do a bit of homework and make sure you buy something that works well or buy a pre-installed machine with support. If a novice friend asked me for advice on switching I'd probably suggest the latter. Nothing takes the shine off a new machine like having to download and compile drivers by hand.
If an ultraportable came with ubuntu by default I'd dump macos in a heartbeat.
Check out the laptop offerings from System76. They offer two netbooks and a 14" 'ultrathin' model.
http://www.system76.com/index.php?cPath=28
Any idea what the battery life is like on the 14" ultrathin?
The consensus in the support forums seems to be that it's about 3-5 hours:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1334489
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1514754
There are forum posts with people reporting two hours or less, but these may have a defective battery (a company rep offered to replace it):
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1379644
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1334489
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1514754
There are forum posts with people reporting two hours or less, but these may have a defective battery (a company rep offered to replace it):
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1379644
I think he's making a stand at the wrong time. He says that he's leaving the Mac to protest Apple's gradual move towards walled gardens, away from open platforms.
When the Mac ceases to be an open platform, and becomes a walled garden; when something he _actually wants to do_ becomes impossible because of Apple's policies, moving away in protest makes sense. But moving away in protest of something that hasn't happened?
When the Mac ceases to be an open platform, and becomes a walled garden; when something he _actually wants to do_ becomes impossible because of Apple's policies, moving away in protest makes sense. But moving away in protest of something that hasn't happened?
Why should he wait until something becomes impossible, rather than less than ideal? Sometimes you just need to see the writing on the wall.
He writes "As noted, I've been happy in the relatively free Mac world. But given the slowing pace of Mac OS development, there's reason to believe Apple is mostly milking Mac OS users. Will it phase out serious PC development? Or will it eventually move its command-and-control methods up the value chain to the Mac? Apple says it's committed to the Mac's future. I'm not so sure, especially after Jobs, speaking at the Wall Street Journal's All Things Digital conference earlier this month, made it clear that he believes the iPhone/iPad ecosystem is the real future of personal computing, with PCs becoming a much smaller player."
He writes "As noted, I've been happy in the relatively free Mac world. But given the slowing pace of Mac OS development, there's reason to believe Apple is mostly milking Mac OS users. Will it phase out serious PC development? Or will it eventually move its command-and-control methods up the value chain to the Mac? Apple says it's committed to the Mac's future. I'm not so sure, especially after Jobs, speaking at the Wall Street Journal's All Things Digital conference earlier this month, made it clear that he believes the iPhone/iPad ecosystem is the real future of personal computing, with PCs becoming a much smaller player."
I'd say that "slowing pace of Mac OS development" simply isn't true; if anything, I've felt like there is more development going on now that iOS is creating a large pool of Cocoa/ObjC developers.
And also, it's still not less than ideal. Nothing has changed wrt. MacOS's openness; in fact, Apple continues to promote new APIs that are cross vendor (OpenCL, for example) with new releases of MacOS.
Apple isn't going to one day magically turn off "unapproved" applications with no warning; it will be a gradual process if it ever happens. Indeed, one must see the writing on the wall, but it has to be written first.
And also, it's still not less than ideal. Nothing has changed wrt. MacOS's openness; in fact, Apple continues to promote new APIs that are cross vendor (OpenCL, for example) with new releases of MacOS.
Apple isn't going to one day magically turn off "unapproved" applications with no warning; it will be a gradual process if it ever happens. Indeed, one must see the writing on the wall, but it has to be written first.
If he sticks with Mac, then he's funding the company that he believes is trying to destroy desktop computing.
>> It's much lighter than my MacBook Pro, yet has a great set of hardware features that Apple can't seem to provide in its own laptops despite their high prices. (Example: The ThinkPad has a reader for flash-memory cards.)<<
So do the current lineup of Macbook Pros.
http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html
So do the current lineup of Macbook Pros.
http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html
>I'm not so sure, especially after Jobs, speaking at the Wall Street Journal's All Things Digital conference earlier this month, made it clear that he believes the iPhone/iPad ecosystem is the real future of personal computing, with PCs becoming a much smaller player.
Well of course! I think the vision Apple sees is computers being for producing and everything else being for consuming [1], so since most of what every computer user does is consuming it stands to reason that consumption devices will make up the majority of computing devices.
Life is hard to live if you're looking for conspiracies under ever rock and assuming that everyone just has the most evil purpose possible.
[1] Actually by "producing" I mean 80% producing and 20% consuming, and with "consuming" I mean the reverse.
Well of course! I think the vision Apple sees is computers being for producing and everything else being for consuming [1], so since most of what every computer user does is consuming it stands to reason that consumption devices will make up the majority of computing devices.
Life is hard to live if you're looking for conspiracies under ever rock and assuming that everyone just has the most evil purpose possible.
[1] Actually by "producing" I mean 80% producing and 20% consuming, and with "consuming" I mean the reverse.
The reasons given are a bit odd, but it actually makes sense in one respect. If you want to be working with Android phones and tablets because you don't like Apple's direction with iOS, then there's going to be an impedance mismatch between your new devices and Mac OS X.
Compared to what? I would believe that Android phones don't integrate flawlessly with OS X, but do they work any better with Linux or Windows? My impression is that Android only cares about the cloud and it barely acknowledges the existence of PCs, let alone integrate with them.
Syncing music (including transcoding). Using your phone as a remote control. These are things that work okay if you live entirely within the Apple ecosystem, once you start straying outside and using FLAC or Vorbis or Android or Rhythmbox you'd be as well leaving completely rather than muddle along half-in and half-out and relying on 3rd party support like Doubletwist.
(Though it's worth noting that the Linux guys are getting really god with iDevice support, but longer term I'd bet on Android working best.)
(Though it's worth noting that the Linux guys are getting really god with iDevice support, but longer term I'd bet on Android working best.)
People always talk about switching. Switching to Linux is easy. Sticking with Linux is an entirely different situation. I'd be more inclined to enjoy stories like this if it was more about how the person has been using the OS for a few months already.
Edit: This isn't a jab at Linux, either. I just think a "I switched months ago" story is more valuable then "I just switched an hour ago, rebel me!"
Edit: This isn't a jab at Linux, either. I just think a "I switched months ago" story is more valuable then "I just switched an hour ago, rebel me!"
I switched my last computer to Ubuntu 13 months ago, and haven't looked back. I haven't regretted it once! Emacs and Firefox/Chrome work fine, there's finally a reasonable 64-bit version of Flash, Steam works well under WINE, and OpenOffice and GIMP are.. ahem workable.
It hasn't been all sunshine: I installed Kubuntu on a new desktop 3 months ago, and a month later had to do a complete wipe/reinstall to Ubuntu. I couldn't find the incantation to completely switch to Ubuntu using apt-get.
It hasn't been all sunshine: I installed Kubuntu on a new desktop 3 months ago, and a month later had to do a complete wipe/reinstall to Ubuntu. I couldn't find the incantation to completely switch to Ubuntu using apt-get.
I agree with this, after having a linux dual-boot for four years on my last laptop, it got to a point where I didn't even remember the password for it. I've been happy with just using a cygwin shell inside of windows these days.
I'm sure Dan is replacing his TV and cable hookup with a network-connected computer and HDTV monitor so he won't be forced to watch only the programming the cable network provides (and takes a cut of) but will be free to watch the vast array of entertainment programs available on the net. The fact that there are almost none of these shouldn't sway his decision, because if everyone did the same, surely there would be some, sometime.
I feel the same about this as I do about any economic or technical decision made for religious reasons. You're free to think what you want, but, as Scott Adams says, I'm free to hear what you say on the subject as incoherent babbling.
I feel the same about this as I do about any economic or technical decision made for religious reasons. You're free to think what you want, but, as Scott Adams says, I'm free to hear what you say on the subject as incoherent babbling.
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Does anyone have experience working with WINE? (WINE Is Not an Emulator). Also switching from Mac to Linux (Ubuntu), but have a few applications that require Windows.
http://appdb.winehq.org/ will tell you if your app is supported on Wine. Most of my Windows-only apps work, albeit with some minor glitches...sometimes.
Just be aware that just because an app is listed as working in the appdb, doesn't mean you can reasonably expect to type "wine app.exe" on your computer and have it work. All it means is that someone somewhere managed to get it to run once under one particular configuration.
I don't see why he can't simply keep using OSX and just not buy an iPod or iPad or iPhone and use Android based devices instead.
Oh my. I feel like some people on the internet over-exagerate because they hope the corporation will respond to their cries. So you're getting a linux hand-held? Oh, no you're getting rid of your Mac because you don't like the iPhone policies? I guess that hasn't been tried.
Unfortunately, Ubuntu's latest version, called "Lucid Lynx," won't run properly yet on the X201.
Meanwhile, Lucid Lynx is running nicely in a "virtual machine" on my MacBook Pro.
wow! so you already moved ? what are you waiting for ? 10 years to get an OS that at least run on your hardware ?
wow! so you already moved ? what are you waiting for ? 10 years to get an OS that at least run on your hardware ?
It seems to me the better strategy would be to support the Mac until Apple tries to control Mac software development in the same way they do iOS development and then go to Linux. That way Apple can clearly see that people are rejecting the walled garden philosophy.