Netbooks are still a great deal(scripting.com)
scripting.com
Netbooks are still a great deal
http://www.scripting.com/stories/2010/04/27/netbooksAreStillAGreatDeal.html
11 comments
Why all the hostility towards the writer? Look at the title of the article: "Netbooks are still a great deal"
He's not saying he doesn't like his iPad, or that it doesn't have value for him. He's simply saying that there are situations where he prefers the netbook's form factor and OS.
He's not saying he doesn't like his iPad, or that it doesn't have value for him. He's simply saying that there are situations where he prefers the netbook's form factor and OS.
> Why all the hostility towards the writer?
Because he wasted our time with idiotic complaints and comparisons. For saying nothing everybody already knew.
Because he wasted our time with idiotic complaints and comparisons. For saying nothing everybody already knew.
That's funny. Safari on my iPad remembers my Facebook (and HN) passwords fine.
It is interesting that half of your solutions to Winer's pain points involve buying additional products from Apple.
I think some of Winer's complaints are a bit silly, but I also think there is a very good case to be made that a netbook is significantly more useful per dollar than an iPad. Most people who pay $300-$400 for a netbook will never need to spend another cent on hardware or software for it.
I think some of Winer's complaints are a bit silly, but I also think there is a very good case to be made that a netbook is significantly more useful per dollar than an iPad. Most people who pay $300-$400 for a netbook will never need to spend another cent on hardware or software for it.
You are out of your fricking mind -- buy the wifi SD card and the keyboard or -- buy a netbook and get a CPU, hard drive, screen, battery, etc thrown in for free.
Which netbook comes with IPS screen? What's the typical battery life?
LOL, @indiginous welcome to HN. You will find that comments such as this just won't fly with the community. Get a better argument or attitude. (By the way, I didn't down-vote your comment, someone else did, as the original commenter cannot down-vote replies made to his/her comment)
I will entertain your reply for just a short moment.
1. Nothing is "thrown in for free" There are always cost associations. Some food for thought, that also goes for software. - A comment such as that will make your credibility for intelligent conversation go down the drain.
2. You are missing the real point of my comment above.
I will entertain your reply for just a short moment.
1. Nothing is "thrown in for free" There are always cost associations. Some food for thought, that also goes for software. - A comment such as that will make your credibility for intelligent conversation go down the drain.
2. You are missing the real point of my comment above.
That's funny -- I've been reading HN for a long time and am aware that most comments are left by lonely idiots with super low IQs. I've tried to adjust for that, but even so your position is even more inane than most. Keep trying. :-)
May I ask what you gain from calling him inane without any arguments to back up the point?
My wife has an iPad. Its completely awesome for our toddler to play games on, and for the wife to check her e-mail, surf the web a little, and see her calendar. Adding events to the calendar on the iPad is annoying, best to do it in iCal on the real computer (though iCal's UI is really weak in my opinion).
I have a 10" ASUS eeePC and its completely awesome for me to do a lot of typing on (also has great battery life), have an Ubuntu environment setup running identical versions of the services that the server runs, and for overall hacking.
They're two completely different things and I think it is disingenuous to directly compare an iPad to other form factors, much as you wouldn't compare your iPhone to your desktop in terms of functionality. Just because two devices have a similar screen size does not mean they are equal!
I have a 10" ASUS eeePC and its completely awesome for me to do a lot of typing on (also has great battery life), have an Ubuntu environment setup running identical versions of the services that the server runs, and for overall hacking.
They're two completely different things and I think it is disingenuous to directly compare an iPad to other form factors, much as you wouldn't compare your iPhone to your desktop in terms of functionality. Just because two devices have a similar screen size does not mean they are equal!
As with all winer whining, you have to take it with a large pinch of salt. On this one, he's made 3 factual errors before he even gets to his point:
> I have both an iPad and a netbook, and the netbook is strictly more useful than the iPad. > If I go out with the iPad invariably I hit a wall. No SD card slot. No USB. The keyboard is hunt-and-peck.
not so much. SD and USB connectivity is provided by peripherals sold by apple. Are they fully open and free to use? no. but that's of course the price you pay to use an ipad. As mentioned below, plenty of people (including me) are able to use the keyboard just fine.
> The iPad doesn't remember my Facebook password, so when I want to check Facebook I must reach for the netbook. > A small thing you say -- but operating systems are collections of hundreds of small things, and new operating systems > like the one in the iPad don't have them and old ones like XP do
Or just get 1Password, shipping with the iPad from day one, which, if perhaps haphazardly, solves his problems and syncs everywhere.
> I had pictures in my camera the other day. No way to get them up to Flickr through the iPad. > If I had had the netbook with me, no problem. (I used my Droid instead.)
The usb/sd peripheral is designed specifically for this.
> The netbook has a real keyboard. I'm writing this blog post on it. It's taken a couple of minutes so far. I'd still be on paragraph 2 > if I had used the iPad. And I'd be entering it on one of my WordPress blogs because my customized content tools don't and > will never run on Apple's new platform. (Unless they change their mind.)
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC533LL/A?fnode=MTc0MjU4Nj... (or, the bluetooth one, which also works). Though, i prefer to just suggest to him that he learns how to use the new keyboard, and stops trying to make it behave like the one he has on his netbook.
> There's an awful glitch in the way the clipboard works on the iPad. Try to put the cursor on a mis-spelling. > It always selects the whole word. I've gotten in the habit of retyping the word when there's a one character spelling error. > These little things are of course little, but they mount up.
Yes. then you press again to stop selecting and make it go to the misspelling.
I think he's trying to fit a round peg in a square hole again, and that has limited appeal outside his echo chamber. It's a shame, though, as he has an abnormally large audience who reads what he turfs out. He reminds me of the computer professor who refuses to accept obsolescence but insists that all his students learn fortran and nothing else.
> I have both an iPad and a netbook, and the netbook is strictly more useful than the iPad. > If I go out with the iPad invariably I hit a wall. No SD card slot. No USB. The keyboard is hunt-and-peck.
not so much. SD and USB connectivity is provided by peripherals sold by apple. Are they fully open and free to use? no. but that's of course the price you pay to use an ipad. As mentioned below, plenty of people (including me) are able to use the keyboard just fine.
> The iPad doesn't remember my Facebook password, so when I want to check Facebook I must reach for the netbook. > A small thing you say -- but operating systems are collections of hundreds of small things, and new operating systems > like the one in the iPad don't have them and old ones like XP do
Or just get 1Password, shipping with the iPad from day one, which, if perhaps haphazardly, solves his problems and syncs everywhere.
> I had pictures in my camera the other day. No way to get them up to Flickr through the iPad. > If I had had the netbook with me, no problem. (I used my Droid instead.)
The usb/sd peripheral is designed specifically for this.
> The netbook has a real keyboard. I'm writing this blog post on it. It's taken a couple of minutes so far. I'd still be on paragraph 2 > if I had used the iPad. And I'd be entering it on one of my WordPress blogs because my customized content tools don't and > will never run on Apple's new platform. (Unless they change their mind.)
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC533LL/A?fnode=MTc0MjU4Nj... (or, the bluetooth one, which also works). Though, i prefer to just suggest to him that he learns how to use the new keyboard, and stops trying to make it behave like the one he has on his netbook.
> There's an awful glitch in the way the clipboard works on the iPad. Try to put the cursor on a mis-spelling. > It always selects the whole word. I've gotten in the habit of retyping the word when there's a one character spelling error. > These little things are of course little, but they mount up.
Yes. then you press again to stop selecting and make it go to the misspelling.
I think he's trying to fit a round peg in a square hole again, and that has limited appeal outside his echo chamber. It's a shame, though, as he has an abnormally large audience who reads what he turfs out. He reminds me of the computer professor who refuses to accept obsolescence but insists that all his students learn fortran and nothing else.
Without implying any particular support for Mr. Winer's views, I don't think it's fair to say he made "3 factual errors". The point of his post was to compare the iPad (as delivered) and a netbook (as delivered). To that end, he points out that:
1) the iPad does not include SD card slot or USB - the fact that you can add peripherals for this purpose does not invalidate his point
2) the iPad doesn't remember his Facebook password - again, you appear to be suggesting that an add-on product addresses this concern, but that doesn't negate the fact that the iPad as delivered is not equivalent to a basic netbook
3) the netbook has a "real" keyboard, versus the "soft" keyboard of the iPad - again, the fact that you can add an external peripheral doesn't mean his post was factually incorrect.
1) the iPad does not include SD card slot or USB - the fact that you can add peripherals for this purpose does not invalidate his point
2) the iPad doesn't remember his Facebook password - again, you appear to be suggesting that an add-on product addresses this concern, but that doesn't negate the fact that the iPad as delivered is not equivalent to a basic netbook
3) the netbook has a "real" keyboard, versus the "soft" keyboard of the iPad - again, the fact that you can add an external peripheral doesn't mean his post was factually incorrect.
Sure. I was commenting more to the between-the-lines idea that he'd make a comparison between a tablet touch screen and a miniature laptop. It's a bit of an apples-and-oranges comparison.
He also complains about sd/usb/keyboard/password as if they are unsolvable failings of apple. I think he seems to miss the point of Apple's approach to life- the 80/20 rule. Not to mention that _everything_ he complained about is solved already.
In other words: Winer has a widely read website in which he has used it as a pulpit to rant about the iPad without doing any research. In other places, he calls himself a journalist- and I feel offended that he'd do that and show such shoddy examples of the trade. :(
He also complains about sd/usb/keyboard/password as if they are unsolvable failings of apple. I think he seems to miss the point of Apple's approach to life- the 80/20 rule. Not to mention that _everything_ he complained about is solved already.
In other words: Winer has a widely read website in which he has used it as a pulpit to rant about the iPad without doing any research. In other places, he calls himself a journalist- and I feel offended that he'd do that and show such shoddy examples of the trade. :(
"The keyboard is hunt-and-peck."
Not for me. Only if I'm lying down or carrying it in one hand. In fact, my one-handed typing speed at this point is probably faster on the iPad than it would be on a netbook, simply because I have gotten used to using completion and I can glide over the virtual keyboard with minimal motions, not worrying about exerting enough force to depress real keys.
If I am sitting down, I can type at full speed on the iPad keyboard in landscape orientation.
Not for me. Only if I'm lying down or carrying it in one hand. In fact, my one-handed typing speed at this point is probably faster on the iPad than it would be on a netbook, simply because I have gotten used to using completion and I can glide over the virtual keyboard with minimal motions, not worrying about exerting enough force to depress real keys.
If I am sitting down, I can type at full speed on the iPad keyboard in landscape orientation.
Strange but true. I also find that I can "dont-touch" type at near full speed in landscape mode propped up on the folded case. I don't think I'd like to do it for extended periods, but for minutes at a time it is good.
Exactly. I'm amazed at how fast I can type on this thing with just one hand. My palm barely moves at all, just the fingers doing the moving and mostly just extending through muscle memory.
How fast can you type with one hand on a physical keyboard? I recently did an online typing test for the heck of it, and with my left hand I managed around 35 words in a minute with one or two errors (compared to about 100 wpm with both hands). I have yet to get my hand(s) on an iPad, but I'm skeptical that I could be any faster typing with one hand than I am on a physical keyboard.
(on typography) I find the little hash signs (#) at the paragprahs' ends to be disturbing when reading: I always think for a split second I missed a starting quotation mark somewhere.
Confirms my belief that the iPad is for consumption and a laptop/netbook for production.
EDIT: of course the question then is if an ordinary user can do with an iPad most of the time or not.
When you look at a user generated site there's a 90/9/1-rule, that is, 90% of visitors are viewers only, 9% comment or rate or make small contributions and 1% create stuff.
Perhaps a similar division can be seen in how we use the internet during a day. 90% of the time we only consume - then an iPad is fine. It's the the other 10% we need a laptop with a keyboard.
EDIT: of course the question then is if an ordinary user can do with an iPad most of the time or not.
When you look at a user generated site there's a 90/9/1-rule, that is, 90% of visitors are viewers only, 9% comment or rate or make small contributions and 1% create stuff.
Perhaps a similar division can be seen in how we use the internet during a day. 90% of the time we only consume - then an iPad is fine. It's the the other 10% we need a laptop with a keyboard.
Your comment is biased towards production in the narrow context of computers/web browsing. That sort of activity, for most people, requires a computer keyboard, which the iPad lacks, so it's a foregone conclusion.
There are other sorts of activities that do not have a computer keyboard as the most efficient input method.
http://hexler.net/software/touchosc
There are other sorts of activities that do not have a computer keyboard as the most efficient input method.
http://hexler.net/software/touchosc
I'm probably nit-picking here, but TouchOSC doesn't generate sound by itself. It is just a controller application that you use to send OSC messages to either a synthesizer or a "real" computer that actually generates the sound.
A question for the iPad musicians: Surely there are pro-audio iPad applications that generate sound, but does the sound have to go through the consumer-grade audio output or can you send it to the DAW via the USB add-on?
A question for the iPad musicians: Surely there are pro-audio iPad applications that generate sound, but does the sound have to go through the consumer-grade audio output or can you send it to the DAW via the USB add-on?
I'm probably nit-picking here, but TouchOSC doesn't generate sound by itself.
You're probably missing the point. Interface is the whole point of the iPad. Interface + processing ability is a lot of what the ongoing computer revolution has been and will be about.
You're probably missing the point. Interface is the whole point of the iPad. Interface + processing ability is a lot of what the ongoing computer revolution has been and will be about.
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My conclusion is that the iPad is cool (as well as any other tablet device), but the netbook is more productive: Get Both. Each device has its' own uses. Both can be useful and fun.
I have a netbook, but I don't feel comfortable taking it everywhere, the keywords is also annoying when you are in bed and you just want to read or watch. So if you have money, buy a netbook, if you still have, buy an iPad. If you don't have money, work and make money or just read and watch people using those gadgets. (Back to work, so I can save money for the next Sony Rocket ;)
I have a netbook, but I don't feel comfortable taking it everywhere, the keywords is also annoying when you are in bed and you just want to read or watch. So if you have money, buy a netbook, if you still have, buy an iPad. If you don't have money, work and make money or just read and watch people using those gadgets. (Back to work, so I can save money for the next Sony Rocket ;)
"Productive" -- depends on what you're producing.
I find myself using the iPad to do research, mockup, sketch and design stuff. (The sort of thing I've always have a hard time doing at a desk and that has stubbornly remained 'on paper'.) Then I sit down at a workstation to "do the work".
Overall, the tablet is making me more productive, even though what's getting produced on it is never finished work.
It obviates a netbook for me, because it more cleanly splits my computing into buckets where the netbook pales to the laptop because it's underpowered, or pales to the tablet because it's burdened by the desktop OS and keyboard/mouse assumptions.
Certainly, YMMV based on what "work" you do. The rule-of-thumb I've been using is to ask people how much they still use paper in the course of being productive. (that is, when you still use it because it's a good solution; as opposed to merely being stubborn, natch)
If you still use paper in the course of your work, it may help. But if you generate almost exclusively text, it probably won't.
I find myself using the iPad to do research, mockup, sketch and design stuff. (The sort of thing I've always have a hard time doing at a desk and that has stubbornly remained 'on paper'.) Then I sit down at a workstation to "do the work".
Overall, the tablet is making me more productive, even though what's getting produced on it is never finished work.
It obviates a netbook for me, because it more cleanly splits my computing into buckets where the netbook pales to the laptop because it's underpowered, or pales to the tablet because it's burdened by the desktop OS and keyboard/mouse assumptions.
Certainly, YMMV based on what "work" you do. The rule-of-thumb I've been using is to ask people how much they still use paper in the course of being productive. (that is, when you still use it because it's a good solution; as opposed to merely being stubborn, natch)
If you still use paper in the course of your work, it may help. But if you generate almost exclusively text, it probably won't.
I can't agree more. I'm not against the tablet idea (may be I don't like the iPad, but tablets seems cool to me).
You can make use of both. For example, when I'm contributing to HN, I feel a netbook is better for me. When I'm just reading, then a tablet will probably serve me better.
For writing it depends, if you are typing, a netbook with keyboard is a better option, if you are drawing things and writing (with a pen), a tablet will serve better.
You can make use of both. For example, when I'm contributing to HN, I feel a netbook is better for me. When I'm just reading, then a tablet will probably serve me better.
For writing it depends, if you are typing, a netbook with keyboard is a better option, if you are drawing things and writing (with a pen), a tablet will serve better.
Two words: Facebook app
When people recommend an app that is just a substitute for a website, it confirms my impression that Safari is not that great on the iPad. I used to think this was the case on the iPhone solely because of screen size, but if apps are still better on the iPad I guess not.
Using the apps nets you stuff like notifications, file uploading and chat.
The Facebook app is able to do things the web interface can't.
Mobile Safari is pretty decent. apps are a way to handle auth better etc...
Safari on the iPad remembers passwords fine. Just because the author is too blinded to figure it out doesn't make it true.
I tried the Facebook App, and didn't like it much. I'm not a hardcore facebook user or anything. I mostly use it to share photos with my family. But I never liked the App. The website was generally a better experience.
Couple this with the fact that I still haven't upgraded to the 3.0 version of the iPhone OS (Why? Because none of the features they were/are promoting are anything I'd use), and it makes a lot of the current breed of apps not usable.
Couple this with the fact that I still haven't upgraded to the 3.0 version of the iPhone OS (Why? Because none of the features they were/are promoting are anything I'd use), and it makes a lot of the current breed of apps not usable.
I had a similar feeling with the OS 2.0 version of the Facebook app, the OS 3.0 version is much better. Doesn't crash when opening large photo albums, for example.
Gawd, I have a spoon and a shovel and really need to eat my soup but don't know which one to use.
Help!
Help!
From the article:
"I hear Asus is coming out with an Android netbook-style tablet in June. Sign me up. I bet it's a nice computer. Android of course is just as immature as the iPad."
If Android is just as immature as the iPad, then why does he "bet it's a nice computer"?
"I hear Asus is coming out with an Android netbook-style tablet in June. Sign me up. I bet it's a nice computer. Android of course is just as immature as the iPad."
If Android is just as immature as the iPad, then why does he "bet it's a nice computer"?
Apparently the USB Camera kit dongle supports USB headsets, USB speakers and USB keyboards to some degree too.
You kind of wonder why they didn't just add a USB connector and SD card slot.
You kind of wonder why they didn't just add a USB connector and SD card slot.
It would disrupt the flawless smooth lines of the device.
Design is important.
Design is important.
1. "The iPad doesn't remember my Facebook password, so when I want to check Facebook I must reach for the netbook. A small thing you say -- but operating systems are collections of hundreds of small things, and new operating systems like the one in the iPad don't have them and old ones like XP do."
A: Use the Facebook app...
2. "I had pictures in my camera the other day. No way to get them up to Flickr through the iPad. If I had had the netbook with me, no problem. (I used my Droid instead.)"
A: Use a wifi sd card? Or, buy the adapter if you must use "USB"
3. "The netbook has a real keyboard. I'm writing this blog post on it. It's taken a couple of minutes so far. I'd still be on paragraph 2 if I had used the iPad. And I'd be entering it on one of my WordPress blogs because my customized content tools don't and will never run on Apple's new platform. (Unless they change their mind.)"
A: While I cannot stand the iPad's virtual keyboard, if you are going to do this task get the keyboard attachment. It's not what it was really meant for, but if you want to use it more like a netbook or laptop or desktop, get the keyboard. And, with the real estate of the iPad and the external keyboard, it is not adding that much more bulk to your travel bag if necessary.
4. "I hate the font they chose for Safari. How do I change it? There does not appear to be a way to do that. That was a new feature in Windows in 1995. Or was it 1994?"
A: This is where it starts to sound ridiculous. I understand his point, but what was the point in the third sentence? While totally ignoring how to use this properly, he then moves on to a point and opinion with a jab like this that make him seem somewhat of a shill.
5. "Apple has a long way to go before the iPad is a useful tool. Lots of little things to fix and tweak, and a philosophy that's going to keep the really innovative stuff flowing elsewhere (where -- not determined yet)."
A: Maybe he has a long way to go before writing a proper and useful review?