Ask PG: Feature request, remove yourself from the leaderboard
45 comments
Why do you think that removing your name from the leaderboard will matter? Will the name-callers even notice?
Rude people are rude people. If they can't complain about your karma they will complain about your socks.
My advice is to ignore them and carry on. Don't take criticism seriously unless it's serious criticism.
Rude people are rude people. If they can't complain about your karma they will complain about your socks.
My advice is to ignore them and carry on. Don't take criticism seriously unless it's serious criticism.
> Why do you think that removing your name from the leaderboard will matter?
Because the leaderboard has positive and negative sides to it.
The negative sides have to do with the people that think that HN is all about 'being in the top 100'.
The positive side is that you can see fairly easily who are the people that have spent a lot of time on the site, in other words who is here for the long haul and who is passing through.
On /. you get a similar feeling by looking at people uid#, here we don't have that so the leaderboard has some of that function.
> Rude people are rude people. If they can't complain about your karma they will complain about your socks.
Ah, but they can't see my socks :)
> My advice is to ignore them and carry on. Don't take criticism seriously unless it's serious criticism.
It gets a little tedious after a while and the negative returns from being on the leaderboard seem to outweigh the positive ones, hence the request.
Because the leaderboard has positive and negative sides to it.
The negative sides have to do with the people that think that HN is all about 'being in the top 100'.
The positive side is that you can see fairly easily who are the people that have spent a lot of time on the site, in other words who is here for the long haul and who is passing through.
On /. you get a similar feeling by looking at people uid#, here we don't have that so the leaderboard has some of that function.
> Rude people are rude people. If they can't complain about your karma they will complain about your socks.
Ah, but they can't see my socks :)
> My advice is to ignore them and carry on. Don't take criticism seriously unless it's serious criticism.
It gets a little tedious after a while and the negative returns from being on the leaderboard seem to outweigh the positive ones, hence the request.
Even if you remove yourself from the scoreboard, they can still see your karma by just going to your profile, I don't think the name calling would stop.
I think it would, otherwise I would not have asked. It seems a simple enough change to the code to me, but then again it isn't my call.
You know how YC always preaches that you should take your users feed back serious and all that ;)
You know how YC always preaches that you should take your users feed back serious and all that ;)
This is a feature of pretty narrow appeal, so I don't think I'd want to clutter the source with it. (I'm not listed because no admins are, but the others don't have enough karma for it to matter.)
It's your call, I figured asking wouldn't harm. On my two bit websites adding that feature would take 10 minutes, and potentially the appeal is huge.
After all, for every person that removes themselves from the leaderboard another one gets the ability to make the decision.
Unless you think that the majority of the HNers is here to make it to the leaderboard, which is a possibility but I highly doubt that a majority here is taking the karma count as their reason for contributing.
edit: this is the third time in as many weeks that I get pretty negative email definitely caused by HN users, it's not at a level where I worry about it (that takes a lot more) but it is a nuisance and it spoils some of the pleasure of being here.
The biggest reason why I am here is because of the people, the second one is the ability to ask and answer 'Ask HN' style postings, the third is to learn and interact. None of that stands a chance of being harmed by a couple of idiotic emails.
I figure that by taking my name off the leaderboard I would make a statement about what I think HN is all about, which is not the leaderboard, anything but.
The silly emails just made me think about it, and in that sense they served a purpose. The alternative, to make another account is also a possibility but then I'm still taking up that slot.
Even if the leaderboard does serve a purpose, which to me is simply to distinguish the frequent contributors from the rest (but for that the leaderboard is actually too small since HN has far more than 100 frequent contributors). I have gone through ever single profile on the leaderboard and visited the sites of the people listed there to see what they're up to.
After all, for every person that removes themselves from the leaderboard another one gets the ability to make the decision.
Unless you think that the majority of the HNers is here to make it to the leaderboard, which is a possibility but I highly doubt that a majority here is taking the karma count as their reason for contributing.
edit: this is the third time in as many weeks that I get pretty negative email definitely caused by HN users, it's not at a level where I worry about it (that takes a lot more) but it is a nuisance and it spoils some of the pleasure of being here.
The biggest reason why I am here is because of the people, the second one is the ability to ask and answer 'Ask HN' style postings, the third is to learn and interact. None of that stands a chance of being harmed by a couple of idiotic emails.
I figure that by taking my name off the leaderboard I would make a statement about what I think HN is all about, which is not the leaderboard, anything but.
The silly emails just made me think about it, and in that sense they served a purpose. The alternative, to make another account is also a possibility but then I'm still taking up that slot.
Even if the leaderboard does serve a purpose, which to me is simply to distinguish the frequent contributors from the rest (but for that the leaderboard is actually too small since HN has far more than 100 frequent contributors). I have gone through ever single profile on the leaderboard and visited the sites of the people listed there to see what they're up to.
Why don't you get a new username without the karma burden ;) You can keep yourself recognizable if you want, just use jacquesm2 and put a short comment in your profile.
Just a checkbox in our profile and "if checked dont list" would suffice to make a happy customer happier.
Enough reasons to add the feature.
Enough reasons to add the feature.
Well make jacquesm an admin then!
It's a matter of privacy. You have created this feature to reward participation, but someone who should be receiving that reward is telling you it is actually a curse.
It may be a narrow appeal, but it is being requested by someone who has demonstrated significant contribution to the community to be rewarded in about the only way one can be rewarded here and you won't free him from that which he considers a punishment.
It may be a narrow appeal, but it is being requested by someone who has demonstrated significant contribution to the community to be rewarded in about the only way one can be rewarded here and you won't free him from that which he considers a punishment.
Why not remove the leaderboard altogether ? I don't see what it brings, except competition because people want to get listed.
It rewards people for their contributions to the site.
the real reward would be if the top 100 people got the ability to add live dofollow links in their profiles. that way people would get a little bit of Google juice for their sites
That puts a horrible incentive on those who would do it just for the links.
The best incentives are non monetary. Real people are motivated by them.
The best incentives are non monetary. Real people are motivated by them.
Not really, the lowest # on the leaderboard right now is ~4.2K.
To get that you'd need to spend like 6-7 months on HN submitting quality stuff or making quality posts(need those votes). Noone is going to do all that for a single link, they'd rather spend that time adding their site to a bunch of directories or writing articles to submit to content farms.
To get that you'd need to spend like 6-7 months on HN submitting quality stuff or making quality posts(need those votes). Noone is going to do all that for a single link, they'd rather spend that time adding their site to a bunch of directories or writing articles to submit to content farms.
I think you underestimate both the capability for automation and the motivation of the spammers.
The motivation for the spammers would be the direct clickthrough from the new page that's what they're doing it for today, their accounts would never have a snowballs chance in hell to make it to the leaderboard.
Votingrings with sockpuppets would be detected long before they would get even near that level, presumably long before they'd reach even 10% of what it takes to get on the leaderboard.
There must be softer targets than the HN leaderboard.
Votingrings with sockpuppets would be detected long before they would get even near that level, presumably long before they'd reach even 10% of what it takes to get on the leaderboard.
There must be softer targets than the HN leaderboard.
You get live dofollow links to stuff you submit, if it gets voted up. And it has actual anchor text, instead of being a raw URL.
yeah but you keep the high PR juice only for as long as your site is on the front page:
front page: PR7 page 2: PR0
the top100 leaderboard user profile on the other hand: PR4
front page: PR7 page 2: PR0
the top100 leaderboard user profile on the other hand: PR4
I second this motion.
There are a lot of guys here working hard on their startups who have also spent a boatload of hours on HN submitting, ranking, and commenting. Giving them a little GoogleJuice doesn't hurt HN at all (want to take a year to get on the board just for one link? Don't think so) and it helps some of us out a bit.
There are a lot of guys here working hard on their startups who have also spent a boatload of hours on HN submitting, ranking, and commenting. Giving them a little GoogleJuice doesn't hurt HN at all (want to take a year to get on the board just for one link? Don't think so) and it helps some of us out a bit.
Hey, that's a really good idea! Is anybody listening?
I would LOVE it if HN did this, and would directly benefit, but I think it's a profoundly bad idea. If you thought people obsessed about karma now... (ahem, Jacques).
I like it in the sense that it starts the transition towards the monetization of karma, which is a pet interest of mine. I would totally sell links in my profile.
Personal leaderboard would serve better - who are the people I upmode the most? Who are the people they upmode the most?
I think the leaderboard is a very good reward for the people who spend quite a lot of time on submitting quality links and contributing to discussions with good comments. every upvote on Hacker News (especially in the comments section) is hard-earned IMHO. the community upvotes quality, and that's one of the main reasons why I love to read links from Hacker News and take part on discussions here. for me it's really rewarding when I see that one of my comments / submissions got an upvote (note: I'm no karma-wh__e by any means!)
I don't see any use of it either.
The term "Leader" makes me uncomfortable in the first place, English is not my first language, that's why maybe it resonate for me as in : "The persons who rules the others".
In my opinion "Top contributors" would be more appropriate.
The term "Leader" makes me uncomfortable in the first place, English is not my first language, that's why maybe it resonate for me as in : "The persons who rules the others".
In my opinion "Top contributors" would be more appropriate.
Leaderboard, one word, is a term from sports leagues meaning the highest scoring players or teams. Obviously in sports no-one gains "authority" over the other players by scoring more goals; it is a means of recognizing equals.
"Leader" doesn't necessarily have those connotations for English speakers. It means, "The person whom others follow." Generally, "the person who rules others," is the "Ruler."
"Leader" can imply "ruler," but it can also mean someone who is winning a competition (his opponent are behind in score and hence are "following" him) or someone whom other voluntarily follow.
It is generally considered a benign term.
"Leader" can imply "ruler," but it can also mean someone who is winning a competition (his opponent are behind in score and hence are "following" him) or someone whom other voluntarily follow.
It is generally considered a benign term.
There's already a way to decouple your posts from the leaderboard: change your nick slightly.
You suggest I create another account ?
That has other effects too, such as splitting the posting history / comment history across several accounts. And the 'sockpuppet' detector might not like that.
That has other effects too, such as splitting the posting history / comment history across several accounts. And the 'sockpuppet' detector might not like that.
We can argue ad nauseam about the pros and cons of different approaches, but if you just posted as jacquesm_, the trolls who are under your skin about karma won't get their ammo, and the people that care to read your whole history can figure out how to get the rest of it.
Hehe, I can see one problem with that approach which will surface in a year or so, and I'll have to switch to jacquesm__ or something like that, but it's worth a try.
Unless you're getting seriously trolled via email, it sounds like a lot of work when you could just press the delete key and move on.
that's weird, I never had a single comment about my karma, and I have more than you.
Must be my charming personality :)
do you get the hate mail via email or just in comments? Because if it's the former, that'd explain it, since I don't have mine in the profile
Email.
And because the return is forged I haven't a clue who it could be. Not that that would matter much but it would at least give an indication why.
The only thing I can think of that could cause this in recent memory is this thread:
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1035080
It generated a fair amount of email, not all of it positive.
And because the return is forged I haven't a clue who it could be. Not that that would matter much but it would at least give an indication why.
The only thing I can think of that could cause this in recent memory is this thread:
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1035080
It generated a fair amount of email, not all of it positive.
Feature requests belong on the feature request thread.
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=363
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=363
I thought you were going to say that.
Perhaps this thread made sense at one time, but this is the first I've noticed it. Its a hell of a long thread and I'm not sure the HN tools are oriented to glean value from old and lengthy threads that few know about.
Thanks for letting us know. There must be a better way though.
Thanks for letting us know. There must be a better way though.
Maybe another way to achieve the same would be to allow optional anonymous posting. (With 2 caveats)
1. There's a way to recognize the same user in a thread - maybe color, or some way to say "This is the same user that you just replied to".
2. admins etc can see who you really are.
I think then you'd be able to truly let your comments win/die on their own.
1. There's a way to recognize the same user in a thread - maybe color, or some way to say "This is the same user that you just replied to".
2. admins etc can see who you really are.
I think then you'd be able to truly let your comments win/die on their own.
jacques, sorry to hear you're getting harassed enough to make this feature request. I don't pay any attention to the leader board (or my own karma), but I guess some do.
I think most of us can tell the difference between a great contributor such as yourself and a karma-whore.
I think most of us can tell the difference between a great contributor such as yourself and a karma-whore.
[deleted]
What, you mean HN isn't about karma-whoring one's way to the top of the leaderboard?
Damn, I've been had!
Damn, I've been had!
Maybe others would like that option too?