Teardown of Apple 40W dynamic power adapter with 60W max(chargerlab.com)
chargerlab.com
Teardown of Apple 40W dynamic power adapter with 60W max
https://www.chargerlab.com/teardown-of-apple-40w-dynamic-power-adapter-with-60w-max-a3365/
https://archive.ph/tOC9a
225 comments
This teardown is great!
At my work, we have an X-ray machine for PCB reverse engineering. On Fridays we throw in random stuff from around the office, and sometimes make videos about what we find inside.
A few weeks ago we released an X-ray teardown of several other, older chargers. Very interesting to compare with these fancy new ones!
https://youtu.be/4h4qabPsPfI
At my work, we have an X-ray machine for PCB reverse engineering. On Fridays we throw in random stuff from around the office, and sometimes make videos about what we find inside.
A few weeks ago we released an X-ray teardown of several other, older chargers. Very interesting to compare with these fancy new ones!
https://youtu.be/4h4qabPsPfI
Ha! I laughed at the "my left ear enjoyed it" comment.
Note that the audio mix for the microphone fell in the left channel only.
Apart from that, interesting images!
Note that the audio mix for the microphone fell in the left channel only.
Apart from that, interesting images!
I'll let the right people know, thanks to you and the YouTube commenter!
What a funny, positive way to point out our error.
What a funny, positive way to point out our error.
I guess that it was edited with the laptop speakers, instead of headphones, and that's why it wasn't noticed. No worries, it can happen!
Here is the other video we've released so far if anyone is curious:
https://youtu.be/z09X_ZnAcLs
Happy to take recommendations for other stuff to drop in there and film!
Also if this sounds cool to you, we're hiring US citizens.
https://redballoonsecurity.com/company/careers/
https://youtu.be/z09X_ZnAcLs
Happy to take recommendations for other stuff to drop in there and film!
Also if this sounds cool to you, we're hiring US citizens.
https://redballoonsecurity.com/company/careers/
> At my work, we have an X-ray machine for PCB reverse engineering.
Curious, does this machine get past the top copper layer?
Curious, does this machine get past the top copper layer?
Would a CT scanner work better for your use case? (ignoring cost)
A high res 2D X-ray is preferable for a PCB, which is nearly a 2D rectangle itself.
don't those have giant magnets....
That'd be an MRI.
A CT is, simplifying, an x-ray machine that takes lots of images in slices, then analyze them with certain algorithms to reconstruct 2D and 3D images of the interior of the 'subject'.
A CT is, simplifying, an x-ray machine that takes lots of images in slices, then analyze them with certain algorithms to reconstruct 2D and 3D images of the interior of the 'subject'.
Well, not really in slices, but from all angles. So with a computer you can reconstruct the density of whatever you're imaging and also do the slices
Yeah true, I was still half asleep and couldn't explain further. It's more like you image from lots of different viewpoints, then calculate a slice, then join the slices to form a volume.
It's better explained visually (at least to me) :P
It's better explained visually (at least to me) :P
The best part I find about ChargerLab teardowns is identifying all the passive and discrete components.
Western distributors tend to only stock western/japanese brands of these, but they can make up a sizable fraction of the BOM (especially electrolytic capacitors) so knowing who the big players are comfortable with using is very handy. LCSC stock a lot, but its nice to know which suppliers have been proven in use.
Western distributors tend to only stock western/japanese brands of these, but they can make up a sizable fraction of the BOM (especially electrolytic capacitors) so knowing who the big players are comfortable with using is very handy. LCSC stock a lot, but its nice to know which suppliers have been proven in use.
> but its nice to know which suppliers have been proven in use.
Watch out. Some of the suppliers you’ve never heard of are capable of delivering good parts to companies like Apple but still have ultra cheap parts available retail.
You can’t rely on brand names in this space.
Watch out. Some of the suppliers you’ve never heard of are capable of delivering good parts to companies like Apple but still have ultra cheap parts available retail.
You can’t rely on brand names in this space.
Hopefully Apple releases a UK version of this adapter soon. The design looks very similar to my beloved Apple UK 20W charger [1]. I’d buy a 40-60W version in a heartbeat!
[1] https://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-20W-USB-C-Power-Adapter/dp/B0...
[1] https://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-20W-USB-C-Power-Adapter/dp/B0...
Similar design is a Ugreen Nexode 45 watt charger[0]. Folding prongs, May be ever so slightly larger. I just purchased one for an upcoming trip.
0: https://www.amazon.co.uk/UGREEN-Foldable-Charger-Support-Com...
0: https://www.amazon.co.uk/UGREEN-Foldable-Charger-Support-Com...
My Apple 20W UK charger measures 49 × 45 × 30 mm, making it much smaller than this Ugreen one (50 x 50 x 42 mm).
I'm guessing an Apple 40-60W UK version might come in somewhere in between in size?
There's also the Anker Nano 45W, at 49 × 49 × 34 mm: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0DPR2VYQF
I'm guessing an Apple 40-60W UK version might come in somewhere in between in size?
There's also the Anker Nano 45W, at 49 × 49 × 34 mm: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0DPR2VYQF
Don’t buy Apple products from Amazon. Especially power or cables. The counterfeiting is out of control, and they have no plans to fix it
Are you sure of that? For years now I think Amazon and Apple have an agreement where only Apple or Apple-approved third-party vendors can sell Apple products on Amazon?
https://9to5toys.com/2018/11/09/apple-and-amazon-deal-iphone... https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/apple-pumps-up-its-amazon-l...
(I think there may be a few other top-tier brands who get this special treatment from Amazon.)
https://9to5toys.com/2018/11/09/apple-and-amazon-deal-iphone... https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/apple-pumps-up-its-amazon-l...
(I think there may be a few other top-tier brands who get this special treatment from Amazon.)
They are getting rid of comingling which should reduce some of the counterfeiting problems: https://www.geekwire.com/2025/after-years-of-backlash-amazon...
Anecdote: I’ve bought at least a dozen Apple accessories recently and it’s been fine.
Just don’t buy from random listings with vendors named TREGARBLE or something. Inspect it upon arrival and send it back if it’s a problem.
Just don’t buy from random listings with vendors named TREGARBLE or something. Inspect it upon arrival and send it back if it’s a problem.
The thing with commingling is it’s a matter of proximity. That’s going mean some people are consistently more fortunate than others.
Wow, that does look very neat for an Apple charger. The prongs are individually foldable, right?
I wish there was something like this for Europlug chargers. Ironically, the most compact USB adapter for me so far is one with a US plug, combined with an US-to-Europlug adapter, which can be made very compact, but seem a bit risky at 220V, given that US plugs expose the prongs while connected.
I wish there was something like this for Europlug chargers. Ironically, the most compact USB adapter for me so far is one with a US plug, combined with an US-to-Europlug adapter, which can be made very compact, but seem a bit risky at 220V, given that US plugs expose the prongs while connected.
On the U.K. plug, the pins are linked by a mechanism to the earth pin, to prevent the user from plugging it in without the earth pin too - so foldable en masse, rather than individually.
> "Wow, that does look very neat for an Apple charger. The prongs are individually foldable, right?"
Better than that. You just move the biggest (earth) pin and the other pins fold automatically with it (in the opposite direction!), via a perfectly weighted/sprung mechanical linkage. It's a very smooth, elegant, robust action. Whoever designed it should get some design awards!
Better than that. You just move the biggest (earth) pin and the other pins fold automatically with it (in the opposite direction!), via a perfectly weighted/sprung mechanical linkage. It's a very smooth, elegant, robust action. Whoever designed it should get some design awards!
China makes a 50 watt PD version with 2 ports already.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EuPD4j8
It can deliver 50 watts entirely to 1 port, unlike most others where they mean 25 watts per port.
$5.50 with free shipping.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EuPD4j8
It can deliver 50 watts entirely to 1 port, unlike most others where they mean 25 watts per port.
$5.50 with free shipping.
Does it follow the protocol properly? I’ve had some chargers that don’t default to the lowest output for dumb usb-c devices
Yes it does. Multimeter on the output shows 5.2 volts
Please do not save money by using unlisted electrical equipment. Spend the extra $20 for a product that is tested and listed by UL/CE/ETL, it’s not worth burning a building down over $20.
You couldn’t pay me enough money to plug this into a building’s electrical distribution system, it’s drawing ~3A at 120V (60W at 5V plus inefficiency) and in a very small form factor, I sure hope the engineering and QA of that $5 charger is up to par. Did they include an internal fuse or did they forego that to save $0.03? Who knows!
You couldn’t pay me enough money to plug this into a building’s electrical distribution system, it’s drawing ~3A at 120V (60W at 5V plus inefficiency) and in a very small form factor, I sure hope the engineering and QA of that $5 charger is up to par. Did they include an internal fuse or did they forego that to save $0.03? Who knows!
OP is in the UK where every circuit has a GFCI, making it pretty much impossible to get an electrical shock due to isolation failure (in a typical year, not a single person dies from electrocution in UK homes).
Fire is more of a concern, but this is indeed internally fused and the IC has both overcurrent and overheat protection - both of which are effectively 'free', so there are no cost savings to not include them.
Fire is more of a concern, but this is indeed internally fused and the IC has both overcurrent and overheat protection - both of which are effectively 'free', so there are no cost savings to not include them.
Gotcha, there are still locations where non-GFCI receptacles are allowed in residential homes in the US, they’re required in basements, garages, exteriors, and within a certain distance of a sink/plumbing tap but not in bedrooms or general ‘living space’. AFCIs are required in most areas but don’t protect against ground faults, which aren’t as concerning with a device that is injection molded plastic anyways.
The triple built-in protections alleviate the rest of my concerns, my apologies for overreacting but I’ve seen people plug some scary things into receptacles.
The triple built-in protections alleviate the rest of my concerns, my apologies for overreacting but I’ve seen people plug some scary things into receptacles.
In the last 4 years china has really cracked down on dangerous products, so anything newly made will generally have at least the basics of protections. For example all products with batteries have over and under voltage protection with a dedicated chip rather than some microcontroller hopefully stopping the charge at the right time as used to be done in 2018 to save a few cents.
Diodegonewild might disagree with you.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfUGOPyKWwiriWhjmdtvjBw_J...
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfUGOPyKWwiriWhjmdtvjBw_J...
Only relatively new (past 20 years or so) buildings in the UK are required have GFCIs (called RCCBs in the UK) on every circuit.
Older installations can be retrofitted but there is no requirement to do so.
Older installations can be retrofitted but there is no requirement to do so.
Not seeing UL or ETL or FCC certification on those Apple A3365 chargers. Not finding Apple's own Declaration of Conformity for that product.[1]
Anyone know the switching frequency?
[1] https://regulatoryinfo.apple.com/en/eurocompliance
Anyone know the switching frequency?
[1] https://regulatoryinfo.apple.com/en/eurocompliance
You can see the UL logo on the label of the charger on the first picture on the product page. I have no idea about the EU version, I live in the United States.
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MGKN4AM/A/40w-dynamic-pow...
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MGKN4AM/A/40w-dynamic-pow...
I’m seeing $17+.
I think aliexpress A/B test prices. Clear cookies and refresh a few times and you'll get the $5.50 price.
AliExpress offers lower (subsidised) prices for first-time customers. So you often see very low prices when casually browsing, but when you log in with an existing account, the price goes up. When shipping to my country they also don't add sales tax / VAT until the final confirmation page, which is illegal.
Yep. AliExpress things, it is rarely as much of a good deal as it first appears. I have been burned many times.
For things that you don't care about or don't need to rely on it's fine but there is too much fuckery going on to trust it for anything of importance.
That being said, Amazon isn't much better nowadays and I have been pleasantly surprised by some items from AliExpress. However one should not expect western quality standard for most things...
That being said, Amazon isn't much better nowadays and I have been pleasantly surprised by some items from AliExpress. However one should not expect western quality standard for most things...
Oddly I find the reverse. They apply random coupons only at the final checkout stage and I often end up paying only half for the items I'm buying, especially if I order many items.
I seem to get the 'delayed delivery' coupon every time even if the delivery is on time for example, and sometimes that coupon is worth more than the item itself for low value items.
I seem to get the 'delayed delivery' coupon every time even if the delivery is on time for example, and sometimes that coupon is worth more than the item itself for low value items.
I haven't made any purchase recently so maybe that's their way to subsidize the cost of various laws put in place in the EU recently (tax and shipping).
But maybe it's also because you buy from the US?
It doesn't matter much anyway; I stopped buying there because I am a bit tired of too random quality that doesn't make the "savings" really worth it. For example, I bought a connected outlet that was half the price of ones from an EU brand but the app is pretty bad (data logging and display is terrible) and build quality worse. I also bought various RCA cable for an old amplifier and all of them were producing noise, I got a good one from Amazon (made in Germany) and no problem.
It doesn't matter much anyway; I stopped buying there because I am a bit tired of too random quality that doesn't make the "savings" really worth it. For example, I bought a connected outlet that was half the price of ones from an EU brand but the app is pretty bad (data logging and display is terrible) and build quality worse. I also bought various RCA cable for an old amplifier and all of them were producing noise, I got a good one from Amazon (made in Germany) and no problem.
I wonder what temperature this thing hits. I have an even smaller 65 W GAN charger[0] that gets pretty toasty under load. I can't really see Apple wanting to ship a toasty charger, though.
[0]: https://rollingsquare.com/products/supertiny-the-smallest-65...
[0]: https://rollingsquare.com/products/supertiny-the-smallest-65...
https://www.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/1nfhctl/hands...
Hot but not too hot
Hot but not too hot
60C is still more than enough to burn you. Just, not the instant you touch it.
Toastyness is regulated by law for anyone sticking to the law.
Many devices are made larger simply to have more surface area to spread the heat over to stay within the law.
Many devices are made larger simply to have more surface area to spread the heat over to stay within the law.
Chargers that get to hot then thermal cut off (out of action for an hour) are so annoying.
I remember the old macbook pro chargers, they and the cable would get so hot it melted the insulation of the cable (over time). Not to mention the self-desoldering GPU’s inside the actual laptops.
I don't think it was heat melting the insulation, blame the TPE used reacting. Anyways thread from the last time Apple charger stuff was discussed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28054090
Ah thats interesting! The self desoldering gpu’s was also an issue with compliance, switching from leaded to lead free solder iirc.
I had 2 cables that melted like this. I eventually bought the newer version with a different insulator. Used with the same charger and same laptop, but no melting.
Wow, that's really small. Only 43 cm3 (without the plug) for the EU version. I own an a Anker Nano II 65W GaN Charger and that's already small with 64 cm3. I can imagine that Rolling Square one getting even hotter with that low amount of material, and thus cooling.
UGreen and Anker has me already covered for these types of powerful but small chargers. They are not limited to one port like the Apple chargers are.
The one thing I like about the Apple charging bricks is how on certain models the prongs can be swapped out for a cable, which is very useful when the wall plug is cramped. However, this device doesn't seem to incorporate that so I'm not sure what benefit it has over an Anker.
Are they full power to both ports simultaneously, or do they split between them?
Is there a way to slow down these high power chargers? Sometimes I want a fast charge but mostly I want slow to getting hot. I realize overnight charging phones are smart enough to do this but otherwise seems to be impossible without having two different chargers.
The charging smarts are always in the phone, and always have been. Just because a USB port has 15 or 30 or a gazillion Watts available doesn't mean that the phone is required to consume that much. Similarly, the wall outlets in your house may be able to supply a couple of thousand Watts -- but that doesn't mean that a device plugged in is required to use all of that.
And batteries can charge pretty fast these days. Modern pocket supercomputers keep track of battery temperature to keep things within defined limits during charging.
AFAIK the real problem, longevity-wise, for these batteries in normal use is the time spent at extremes of charge (<20% or >80%, ish).
That all said: Sure, some phones have options.
My Samsung phone does some man-behind-the-curtain tricks to attempt to make it reach 100% just before it predicts that I'll unplug it (eg, when I wake up). The idea is to maximize the charge on the phone while also keeping it at 100% SoC for as little time as practical. This probably works great for people with regular schedules (which is to say: people who are not like me).
This phone also lets me explicitly disable various fast-charge modes. I think there's at least two different modes that I can turn off (but I leave them all turned on).
And there's also a mode that limits the maximum charge to 85%, to promote long-term battery health. I have this mode engage automatically when using wireless charging, which is something I only do with the wireless charging cradle on my car's dashboard. (I do want the phone to be powered while I drive, but I don't normally need anything to work extra-hard to cram that last 15% into the battery when I'm on a long drive. It's a good balance, for me.)
And batteries can charge pretty fast these days. Modern pocket supercomputers keep track of battery temperature to keep things within defined limits during charging.
AFAIK the real problem, longevity-wise, for these batteries in normal use is the time spent at extremes of charge (<20% or >80%, ish).
That all said: Sure, some phones have options.
My Samsung phone does some man-behind-the-curtain tricks to attempt to make it reach 100% just before it predicts that I'll unplug it (eg, when I wake up). The idea is to maximize the charge on the phone while also keeping it at 100% SoC for as little time as practical. This probably works great for people with regular schedules (which is to say: people who are not like me).
This phone also lets me explicitly disable various fast-charge modes. I think there's at least two different modes that I can turn off (but I leave them all turned on).
And there's also a mode that limits the maximum charge to 85%, to promote long-term battery health. I have this mode engage automatically when using wireless charging, which is something I only do with the wireless charging cradle on my car's dashboard. (I do want the phone to be powered while I drive, but I don't normally need anything to work extra-hard to cram that last 15% into the battery when I'm on a long drive. It's a good balance, for me.)
[deleted]
It's up to the device. If I have an alarm for the morning my pixel 7 slow charges over the night so that it's full when the alarm goes off. Modern charging standards give all the control to the client device.
Is that with a dock, or without? My Pixel showed me a menu of choices for how to behave when first shown its wireless charging dock (charge to full ASAP, assume we'll need to be charged by alarm time, and some others) but I agree that a device can choose to do this from any power source, I don't feel like it gave the same choice when plugged in to a wall, maybe I'm wrong or it's in a menu somewhere.
You could convert from USB-C to USB-A and back. MicroUSB adapters are popular to chain for devices that only charge on USB-A. There are also adapters just force legacy USB charging for same problem devices. Then your phone will only charge at 12W.
On newer MacBooks you can turn on a similar battery protection mechanism to the phones. I believe vs the phones the smaller chargers won’t stress these cells since they’re a lot larger. 20-40W into a 15Wh battery is more stress than the same through a 52Wh (MBA) battery. A 1C charging rate is healthy.
I've always wondered if lower rates are a problem. Off-topic, but the best my solar panels can do is 0.1C into the battery bank.
I know there’s certainly an efficiency tradeoff when AC to DC conversion is involved. For my car the sweet spot for comfort is between 3kW and 6kW as below 3 a substantial percentage (a few hundred watts) is wasted by the inverter and above 6kW the cooling system has to run (a few hundred more watts). For laptops and phones maybe this still holds true at .1C. Some quick napkin math puts that at 5W and at least with PC power supplies they need a bit of load to hit their 80%+ efficiency rating. I imagine it’s a bit different with small bricks?
More to your question the DIY solar community is torn between the benefits of float voltage which is a pretty low charging rate. I bought some cells (not for my house) and on the data sheet they were fine with .1C. They were more concerned with temperature and very high C rates hurting the lifespan. Since I was going to AC couple I was more worried about total system efficiency so similarly staying under a rate that heats the battery up and above the idle power of the inverter was my goal.
More to your question the DIY solar community is torn between the benefits of float voltage which is a pretty low charging rate. I bought some cells (not for my house) and on the data sheet they were fine with .1C. They were more concerned with temperature and very high C rates hurting the lifespan. Since I was going to AC couple I was more worried about total system efficiency so similarly staying under a rate that heats the battery up and above the idle power of the inverter was my goal.
The device being charged controls the charging current. Typically for smaller gadgets, a single resistor connected to the charge controller IC sets the current. Bigger things like laptops may be more sophisticated.
Re: more sophisticated
USB-PD now has a standard for having sink devices request a particular current from the charger, meaning that you could actually remove a converter from the sink device side, because with a programmable source, the current limiting happens on the power supply side. Cool stuff especially for small electronics like wearables.
Generally though if you want to charge with USB-PD and accept all kinds of chargers, the sink device will have to have its own charge control PMIC.
All this negotiation happens over a side band via the "CC" pins on the USB-C connector.
USB-PD now has a standard for having sink devices request a particular current from the charger, meaning that you could actually remove a converter from the sink device side, because with a programmable source, the current limiting happens on the power supply side. Cool stuff especially for small electronics like wearables.
Generally though if you want to charge with USB-PD and accept all kinds of chargers, the sink device will have to have its own charge control PMIC.
All this negotiation happens over a side band via the "CC" pins on the USB-C connector.
That's an optional USB-PD feature, though (called PPS).
Devices that support it can potentially charge more efficiently (and by extension more quickly, if they're limited by heat dissipation), but they can't rely on any USB-PD adapter supporting it.
It's also different from AVS (which Apple's adapter seems to support), which allows controlling the voltage in finer steps, but not limiting the current in the same way that PPS does.
Devices that support it can potentially charge more efficiently (and by extension more quickly, if they're limited by heat dissipation), but they can't rely on any USB-PD adapter supporting it.
It's also different from AVS (which Apple's adapter seems to support), which allows controlling the voltage in finer steps, but not limiting the current in the same way that PPS does.
[deleted]
I still keep a few 5 watt chargers around and use them for overnight charging whenever possible. I reserve the use of high power chargers for the odd occasion when I need the speed.
Probably wearing your batteries out more. Bunch of studies done have found fast charging causes no additional degradation. Unless you hold the charge below 90% or something letting them dwell at 100% for hours is worse.
Yes I’m aware of the studies re: fast charging , and the importance of avoiding dwelling at high charge levels :)
If a device charged overnight does not support limiting charging to 80%, a 5W charger means the device spends less time between 80% and 100% versus a higher wattage charger.
For a newer device that does support limited charging to 80%, I agree that there’s probably a little difference in battery aging between different speed chargers, however for overnight charging, where I really don’t care how long it takes to charge, I would still go with the lower power.
If a device charged overnight does not support limiting charging to 80%, a 5W charger means the device spends less time between 80% and 100% versus a higher wattage charger.
For a newer device that does support limited charging to 80%, I agree that there’s probably a little difference in battery aging between different speed chargers, however for overnight charging, where I really don’t care how long it takes to charge, I would still go with the lower power.
Why wearing out more? I’d been planning on pulling out an old charger to slow charge overnight.
I suppose the previous comment was likely saying more compared to not charging overnight, and fast charging in the morning.
I would also have guessed the slow charging was better, but that is an uninformed opinion. I'd be quite interested in what people think.
An extra dilemma - often if I'm around the house or the office all day, I'll just plug in my phone every time I see it reach about 70%, and unplug when it reaches 80% (this is easier to spot if you have low-power mode on for an iPhone because the screen lights up at 80% when low-power mode is turned off). Is it worse to do that 2 or 3 times, compared to just charging to 100% and leaving it on the charger all day. Is being at 100% all day, but not using any (fractions of) charge cycles, worse than doing a few shallow discharges?
Of course, I don't think it really matters, but it's the kind of thing that I wonder and then do when I remember.
I would also have guessed the slow charging was better, but that is an uninformed opinion. I'd be quite interested in what people think.
An extra dilemma - often if I'm around the house or the office all day, I'll just plug in my phone every time I see it reach about 70%, and unplug when it reaches 80% (this is easier to spot if you have low-power mode on for an iPhone because the screen lights up at 80% when low-power mode is turned off). Is it worse to do that 2 or 3 times, compared to just charging to 100% and leaving it on the charger all day. Is being at 100% all day, but not using any (fractions of) charge cycles, worse than doing a few shallow discharges?
Of course, I don't think it really matters, but it's the kind of thing that I wonder and then do when I remember.
To be clear, I also don’t think it really matters. :)
That said, my assumption is that most people want to charge overnight precisely because they do not want to have to remember to do a fast charge in the morning. Maybe that’s just me tho. Assuming you want to charge overnight, I totally agree that spending less time between 80% and 100% is good, and software that either prevents this or limits it is good. But whether you have such a device or not, for overnight charging a lower power charger seems prudent.
That said, my assumption is that most people want to charge overnight precisely because they do not want to have to remember to do a fast charge in the morning. Maybe that’s just me tho. Assuming you want to charge overnight, I totally agree that spending less time between 80% and 100% is good, and software that either prevents this or limits it is good. But whether you have such a device or not, for overnight charging a lower power charger seems prudent.
I use USB-A ports on a dumb charger, but most likely, it'd be best for the battery to use a charger with PPS support (programmable power supply - the device can request finely tuned voltages, reducing losses and thus heat inside the device).
If you really want to, you can plug a USB tester (e.g. AVHzY) between your charger and device and manually force the charging mode.
On my Samsung S24 Ultra I have a routine set up where it automatically disables fast charging during the night, but enables it again during the day - the logic being that I don't mind if the phone charges slowly while I sleep, but if I plug it in during the day then I probably want the quickest top-up possible.
This is why I'm glad my phone has a cooling fan that can be set to come on during fast charging https://i.imgur.com/05lhMJA.jpeg
If you buy a crappy one it'll thermal throttle itself after a few minutes
I wish they'd discount their 35W dual port chargers or that I could find a similar 3rd party charger.
My main criteria are (1) dual USB-C ports to charge multiple devices in one location, (2) compact enough to not block the other receptacle, and (3) ports face down/to the side so can fit between the wall and furniture. Unfortunately most chargers fail at least one of these.
My main criteria are (1) dual USB-C ports to charge multiple devices in one location, (2) compact enough to not block the other receptacle, and (3) ports face down/to the side so can fit between the wall and furniture. Unfortunately most chargers fail at least one of these.
This isn't exactly what you're looking for, but it may fit the use case.
I've recently been replacing some of the wiring in my house as part of a renovation, and I discovered that Leviton sells outlets with PD USB-C built in now! Not talking about the useless 2A USB-A "built-in" chargers of yore, now they actually have proper PD up to 60W!
They do also sell non-PD, so it requires some careful checking of the model numbers. And the 60W one is pretty large (the in-wall part) so it might not quite fit in an existing wallbox if it is a small one. But briefly: - T5636: two USB-C PD, up to 60W total / 60W individual or 30W each if both in use - T5635: two USB-C PD, up to 30W total / 30W individual or 15W each for both - T5634: one USB-C PD and one USB-A. USB-A is 10W and USB-C is up to 50W (even if both are in use) They also make T8xx versions of these that have 20A receptacles (NEMA 5-20R) but those are harder to find.
They also make other T56xx/T58xx which have non-PD USB-C, good for places like bathrooms where shavers/etc work fine on 5V.
I've found that putting a few of these around has eliminated a lot of the Anker chargers I used to have sticking out everywhere. They're completely in-wall and they leave both outlets free. If I need 100W for my computer, I'll still use a separate charger, but otherwise these are fine.
The only point they don't hit on your list is the ports facing down, but because they're flush at the wall, that means they don't interfere with furniture (any more than having any plug plugged into the outlets at all would).
If you're in Europe/elsewhere, not sure if other manufacturers make similar devices. I know Legrand makes some 30W PD ones in the US market, and as they're French, maybe they make them for others as well.
I've recently been replacing some of the wiring in my house as part of a renovation, and I discovered that Leviton sells outlets with PD USB-C built in now! Not talking about the useless 2A USB-A "built-in" chargers of yore, now they actually have proper PD up to 60W!
They do also sell non-PD, so it requires some careful checking of the model numbers. And the 60W one is pretty large (the in-wall part) so it might not quite fit in an existing wallbox if it is a small one. But briefly: - T5636: two USB-C PD, up to 60W total / 60W individual or 30W each if both in use - T5635: two USB-C PD, up to 30W total / 30W individual or 15W each for both - T5634: one USB-C PD and one USB-A. USB-A is 10W and USB-C is up to 50W (even if both are in use) They also make T8xx versions of these that have 20A receptacles (NEMA 5-20R) but those are harder to find.
They also make other T56xx/T58xx which have non-PD USB-C, good for places like bathrooms where shavers/etc work fine on 5V.
I've found that putting a few of these around has eliminated a lot of the Anker chargers I used to have sticking out everywhere. They're completely in-wall and they leave both outlets free. If I need 100W for my computer, I'll still use a separate charger, but otherwise these are fine.
The only point they don't hit on your list is the ports facing down, but because they're flush at the wall, that means they don't interfere with furniture (any more than having any plug plugged into the outlets at all would).
If you're in Europe/elsewhere, not sure if other manufacturers make similar devices. I know Legrand makes some 30W PD ones in the US market, and as they're French, maybe they make them for others as well.
This is good to know!
I might use these in my basement remodel since I can easily install deeper boxes. A right angle connector cable would also solve the issue of the port direction.
I might use these in my basement remodel since I can easily install deeper boxes. A right angle connector cable would also solve the issue of the port direction.
YMMV, but if you have an older house, these outlets may not fit.
Depending on your location and exact geometry needs the IKEA SJÖSS might do it.
This is very cool, I might actually get one to charge my laptop.
That being said...
I can't be the only person who consciously avoids fast-charging my phone. My whole apartment is full of wireless charging pads intentionally plugged into weak chargers (wireless charging avoids putting wear on the USB port). 60 watts can't possibly be healthy for a battery small enough to fit into a phone.
That being said...
I can't be the only person who consciously avoids fast-charging my phone. My whole apartment is full of wireless charging pads intentionally plugged into weak chargers (wireless charging avoids putting wear on the USB port). 60 watts can't possibly be healthy for a battery small enough to fit into a phone.
Wireless charging may avoid putting wear on the USB port, but it typically does negatively impact battery health due to higher heat while charging. I suppose with a sufficiently low power charger this may not be a factor, though.
You aren’t, but that concern is mostly superstition.
I work at a place with a huge phone fleet. We have interns study our telemetry and records because I kids like phones and they find ways to save us money. We allow for low friction replacements of phones at 12 months — the average replacement is ~27. The most common issues are cracked screens and excessive scratching on iPhone 16 and a Samsung I cannot recall. Batteries are only an issue for field devices subject to excessive cold or heat.
Unless you’re trying to keep the thing going 5 years, you’re likely seeing marginal benefits.
I work at a place with a huge phone fleet. We have interns study our telemetry and records because I kids like phones and they find ways to save us money. We allow for low friction replacements of phones at 12 months — the average replacement is ~27. The most common issues are cracked screens and excessive scratching on iPhone 16 and a Samsung I cannot recall. Batteries are only an issue for field devices subject to excessive cold or heat.
Unless you’re trying to keep the thing going 5 years, you’re likely seeing marginal benefits.
> Unless you’re trying to keep the thing going 5 years, you’re likely seeing marginal benefits.
Not GP, but yes: that’s exactly what I’m trying to do. I think that people should generally expect 5+ years out of their devices. And in a world where user-replaceable batteries are decreasingly common, it makes increasing sense to change habits to preserve the built-in battery.
Not GP, but yes: that’s exactly what I’m trying to do. I think that people should generally expect 5+ years out of their devices. And in a world where user-replaceable batteries are decreasingly common, it makes increasing sense to change habits to preserve the built-in battery.
What's wrong with expecting 5 years? Am I insane to expect an electronic device to last as much as possible? And if I had to come up with s number, I'd say 10 years at least.
Nothing is wrong with it. I’m an enthusiast for the tech - I care about the cameras in particular and they are still moving forward between generations on the top platforms.
At work, the optimal cash flow is rapid replacement. We buy high volume so as long as I don’t use a lot of labor, we make money on the subsidy. I buy a phone for $1, and net $250 in trade in 18-20 months.
5-10 years means you want a wall phone. There’s nothing wrong with that, but it’s a contrarian position and the options on the market don’t support it well as a result.
At work, the optimal cash flow is rapid replacement. We buy high volume so as long as I don’t use a lot of labor, we make money on the subsidy. I buy a phone for $1, and net $250 in trade in 18-20 months.
5-10 years means you want a wall phone. There’s nothing wrong with that, but it’s a contrarian position and the options on the market don’t support it well as a result.
> 5-10 years means you want a wall phone. There’s nothing wrong with that, but it’s a contrarian position and the options on the market don’t support it well as a result.
Actually no, that's not what it means at all. The phone I want a phone supports various smartphone features like GPS and NFC. It receives regular software and firmware updates, providing whatever new software functionality has been developed lately. It's built to last, without artificial barriers and compromises that prevent 5-10 of use.
The market may not support it very well, especially when looking at the major handset manufacturers. If that makes me a contrarian, fine. But let's not pretend that the "market" (a space dominated by just a few vendors) is optimizing for long-term customer satisfaction or any such things, or that the absence of something in the marketplace means that that things is silly.
I get that you're coming from a specific context, needing and wanting to turn hardware over quickly. But there are plenty of other people (who are generally quieter than tech enthusiasts) who don't have any such need or desire. A well-supported phone with enduring battery technology would be very welcome to me. The fact that the market doesn't meet our needs is reflective of the market-makers, not the would-be customers.
Actually no, that's not what it means at all. The phone I want a phone supports various smartphone features like GPS and NFC. It receives regular software and firmware updates, providing whatever new software functionality has been developed lately. It's built to last, without artificial barriers and compromises that prevent 5-10 of use.
The market may not support it very well, especially when looking at the major handset manufacturers. If that makes me a contrarian, fine. But let's not pretend that the "market" (a space dominated by just a few vendors) is optimizing for long-term customer satisfaction or any such things, or that the absence of something in the marketplace means that that things is silly.
I get that you're coming from a specific context, needing and wanting to turn hardware over quickly. But there are plenty of other people (who are generally quieter than tech enthusiasts) who don't have any such need or desire. A well-supported phone with enduring battery technology would be very welcome to me. The fact that the market doesn't meet our needs is reflective of the market-makers, not the would-be customers.
It might make sense to turn over phones every two years if you are a business that maintains lots of phones.
As an individual, I generally keep my phones for at least five years.
Why should I spend $300 per year instead of $150 when the lower cost option works for me?
(I'm typing this on a 2020 iPhone SE; it runs the latest software. Although this year, that's not necessarily a good thing. Liquid Glass, Safari bugs.)
As an individual, I generally keep my phones for at least five years.
Why should I spend $300 per year instead of $150 when the lower cost option works for me?
(I'm typing this on a 2020 iPhone SE; it runs the latest software. Although this year, that's not necessarily a good thing. Liquid Glass, Safari bugs.)
But you make sure to find homes for the replaced devices, right? And that future owner will appreciate longer battery life.
> Unless you’re trying to keep the thing going 5 years, you’re likely seeing marginal benefits.
My last phone went for 6 years, and the only reason I replaced it is because one of my banking apps dropped support for Android 8.
My last phone went for 6 years, and the only reason I replaced it is because one of my banking apps dropped support for Android 8.
Meanwhile me with a 100 W charger for my OnePlus 13...
How do you manage that with magsafe/qi 2 chargers if you want to benefit from the greater efficiency and magnetic alignment? They’re all USB-C, and you can’t trivially buy USB-C chargers that are good for only 5W.
My phone doesn't support magnetic alignment, so I'm not really concerned with that. While I can't speak for other phones, my S24 has a setting that limits charging power to 10W, which is fine enough for me. I'd love a 5W limiter, though. The rest of the formula is a combination of Apple and Ikea. Stick to the name brand stuff, the horrors within the average 10-30W USB charger would make any electrical engineer cower in fear.
I really like Ikea's cheaper Smahagel chargers, by the way. They have very good electrical separation, they're cheap, and only run at 5W. The way they're shaped makes it easier to cram a bunch of them into a power strip, which is nice. Can't speak for the USB-C Ikea chargers though.
I really like Ikea's cheaper Smahagel chargers, by the way. They have very good electrical separation, they're cheap, and only run at 5W. The way they're shaped makes it easier to cram a bunch of them into a power strip, which is nice. Can't speak for the USB-C Ikea chargers though.
We have a bunch that are USB-A to micro-USB to the charger?
If you want to use the newer chargers, I’d think you’d want cooling and airflow. At some point, I want to build a MagSafe stand with a low RPM silent fan on it.
If you want to use the newer chargers, I’d think you’d want cooling and airflow. At some point, I want to build a MagSafe stand with a low RPM silent fan on it.
Well I want the newer chargers because they have better efficiency, but I still want them fanless and limited to 5W, which is why I ask.
My current thinking is that the phone shouldn’t negotiate a higher wattage than it wants. Hypothetically, you could bolt it to a 1000W charger, and if it only asks for 30W, that’s all it’ll get.
The concern isn't that a 9000W charger will fry a phone expecting 30W, it's that charging at 30W subjects the phone/battery to more stress/wear than charging at 5W.
What is the logic or science behind that claim? I’ve fast charged my iPhone 16 pro (heavy user) daily if not more often for a year using Apple chargers with the charge limit set to 80%. Remaining battery capacity is still 100%, which is something I’ve never had after a whole year. Fast charge doesn’t seem to hurt.
My guess is that, from the factory, Apple's firmware doesn't actually charge the battery all the way up to its 4.2V "full" threshold. It's probably stopping at 4.12 Volts, or something like that. Then, that threshold will slowly rise over the years in order to keep perceived battery life consistent. Eventually, after several hundred (or maybe a couple thousand) cycles, the threshold stops rising at around 4.2 Volts, and that's when you'll start to see the "battery health" number start to decline.
While I'm not an Apple engineer, I am an embedded systems engineer. I promise you, this kind of trickery is commonplace in consumer electronics. It's also far more common in expensive stuff (phones, laptops) than in cheap stuff (power banks, vapes). Cheap stuff could do this, it's not hard, but the people making those devices don't get paid enough to care.
Point being: A lithium ion battery's capacity is reduced every time you charge it - sometimes by only a couple mAh, but still. This is intrinsic to the chemistry. Your phone is doing things behind the scenes to mitigate that wear, but wear still happens. If you intend to keep your phone beyond its designed 2-3 year lifespan, it behooves you to keep charging current down.
While I'm not an Apple engineer, I am an embedded systems engineer. I promise you, this kind of trickery is commonplace in consumer electronics. It's also far more common in expensive stuff (phones, laptops) than in cheap stuff (power banks, vapes). Cheap stuff could do this, it's not hard, but the people making those devices don't get paid enough to care.
Point being: A lithium ion battery's capacity is reduced every time you charge it - sometimes by only a couple mAh, but still. This is intrinsic to the chemistry. Your phone is doing things behind the scenes to mitigate that wear, but wear still happens. If you intend to keep your phone beyond its designed 2-3 year lifespan, it behooves you to keep charging current down.
> Fast charge doesn’t seem to hurt.
For me a year is nothing though, my phone is on its 4th year, my daughter has my old iphone X.
For me a year is nothing though, my phone is on its 4th year, my daughter has my old iphone X.
Yes but if after 1 year I’m at 100% battery health then isn’t it reasonable to assume that what I’m doing isn’t significantly harming my battery and I can continue like this for several more years? On previous iPhones where I didn’t use the 80% charge limit battery health dropped mostly linearly over the 3-5 years that I had the phone.
The logic is that is causes the battery to get hotter.
My device A55 has a fast charging yes/no option. I think that might help tame things?
Sure, but it’ll balance a fast charge with battery longevity. And you may not want any balance. You may just want longevity.
I believe current battery technology is optimized for fast charging. You are incurring damage every time your battery goes below 20% or exceeds 80% (see current EV charging recommendations).
Even LinusTechTips did a video that showed the length of charging doing more damage than fast charging. For the concern about thermal damage, most phones will throttle their charge if they become too warm.
Personally, I feel my wireless charger in the car does the most damage. It generates more heat and holds the battery in a charging state for longer
Even LinusTechTips did a video that showed the length of charging doing more damage than fast charging. For the concern about thermal damage, most phones will throttle their charge if they become too warm.
Personally, I feel my wireless charger in the car does the most damage. It generates more heat and holds the battery in a charging state for longer
I agree. I started using wireless charging with my iPhone 15 Pro Max. After a year of use, I am already near the 80% max capacity.
My previous phones never even got below 90% in their lifetime.
My previous phones never even got below 90% in their lifetime.
Are you using high-power wireless charging? Does your phone heat up significantly?
As a counterpoint, I've been using low-power wireless charging (5W adapters) with my phones for the last several years (three phones at least). The battery degradation was minimal, I was able to pass my phone to my kid after 3 years of use with near perfect battery.
The key here is to prevent heat buildup.
As a counterpoint, I've been using low-power wireless charging (5W adapters) with my phones for the last several years (three phones at least). The battery degradation was minimal, I was able to pass my phone to my kid after 3 years of use with near perfect battery.
The key here is to prevent heat buildup.
Yes, I am using the high powered ones.
Same phone 89% on 535 cycle count, manufactured july 2023, first used september 2023. Almost exclusively wirelessly charged every time.
Thanks for bringing up that LinusTechsTips video - I'll try and track it down. I would not have expected that conclusion. I've already said in another comment on this thread that I'd expect the opposite!
This seems like the video that the GP post was referring to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF2O4l1JprI
Linus is surprised that fast charging does not heat the battery as much as expected.
I interpreted that "length of charging doing more damage than fast charging" meant that slow charging was worse, because the battery spends more time charging, but I don't think this is stated in the video. In the video, Linus confirms that it is the high state of charge that does the damage and that trying to keep the state of charge as close to 50ish % is best. The conclusion that fast charging is better for the battery, is because you are more likely to do it when awake, and can stop the charging once it reaches whatever percentage you require (but the damage really starts to increase above 80%.
Linus is surprised that fast charging does not heat the battery as much as expected.
I interpreted that "length of charging doing more damage than fast charging" meant that slow charging was worse, because the battery spends more time charging, but I don't think this is stated in the video. In the video, Linus confirms that it is the high state of charge that does the damage and that trying to keep the state of charge as close to 50ish % is best. The conclusion that fast charging is better for the battery, is because you are more likely to do it when awake, and can stop the charging once it reaches whatever percentage you require (but the damage really starts to increase above 80%.
Wireless charging is undoing all the gains of low charging speed because it's so much higher temp.
My phone doesn't get hot at all with wireless charging using a low watt power source though.
Also I am using magsafe which due to the magnet alignment leads to a high efficiency transfer at least.
Also I am using magsafe which due to the magnet alignment leads to a high efficiency transfer at least.
If it doesn't get hot you're good, I would say.
Why do so many websites disable pinch-to-zoom for mobile users? This page is full of interesting close-up photos, but at least on my Android phone, I can't zoom in to see any of the details. Who benefits from disabling this feature?
That's something you can override in the accessibility options, both in Chrome and in Firefox.
IMHO, it should be the default, I have never been in a situation where it caused a problem, but I have been in plenty of situations where it helped.
IMHO, it should be the default, I have never been in a situation where it caused a problem, but I have been in plenty of situations where it helped.
Thank you. This is one of those things that annoyed me so much sometimes I would just leave the site.
A workaround: Long press on image, "open image in a new tab"
turning the desktop mode on in the browser always worked for me to bypass such limitations on the mobile browser.
just tested it and the pinching and zooming works fine.
I am able to pinch to zoom fine on my iPhone
The issue seems to be with Chrome based browsers.
The website explicitly disables it; they have a viewport meta tag with:
initial-scale=1.0, minimum-scale=1.0, maximum-scale=1.0, user-scalable=no
Yeah, I actually think Safari has the right behavior here. I use zoom features all the time on all my devices.
I actually prefer pinch zoom than developers implementing accessibility features which often don’t test all hardware and get glitchy at certain zoom levels.
I actually prefer pinch zoom than developers implementing accessibility features which often don’t test all hardware and get glitchy at certain zoom levels.
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Looks very compact. "peak 60W, stable 40W" what length of time can it do 60W?
From the article:
> The thermistor monitors the internal temperature and dynamically adjusts the power level to reduce output power when the temperature rises.
My guess is that it's dependent on the ambient temperature, but that's just a guess! I can't imagine what the restriction on peak power would be other than temperature rise, though...
> The thermistor monitors the internal temperature and dynamically adjusts the power level to reduce output power when the temperature rises.
My guess is that it's dependent on the ambient temperature, but that's just a guess! I can't imagine what the restriction on peak power would be other than temperature rise, though...
I have a generic slim GAN charger that does a similar stepdown, 65W -> 45W. Different form factor, but same 80g weight.
Peak power tends to last about 10 minutes or so.
Peak power tends to last about 10 minutes or so.
I bet their telemetry shows that a lot of people grab a quick charge while in the shower or the like, and that 10mins is a good amount of time for that.
Or put another way, past ten mins it’s just as likely the phone will be plugged in for hours or overnight and the charge speed is irrelevant.
Or put another way, past ten mins it’s just as likely the phone will be plugged in for hours or overnight and the charge speed is irrelevant.
Also, it may be to avoid overheating the phone. Otherwise you might expect to see a GAN charger where the body is a heat sink.
That should be on the phone to increase its own resistance and slow down the power intake.
I believe it’s around 15 minutes.
Regarding ChargerLAB's products:
I have an HP Zbook G1a laptop that uses 140W USB PD charging. However, except for the HP charger, I have not found a charger or cable pair that works. After a while they start cycling charging on and off. Under heavy load that happens almost immediately. Under light loads it might take hours.
Is there a ChargerLAB product that can explain what exactly is going on between the computer and the charger?
I have used Anker, Insignia and some random USB-C PD chargers and cables rated for 100-140-240W from various vendors.
I have an HP Zbook G1a laptop that uses 140W USB PD charging. However, except for the HP charger, I have not found a charger or cable pair that works. After a while they start cycling charging on and off. Under heavy load that happens almost immediately. Under light loads it might take hours.
Is there a ChargerLAB product that can explain what exactly is going on between the computer and the charger?
I have used Anker, Insignia and some random USB-C PD chargers and cables rated for 100-140-240W from various vendors.
I have this laptop and this is so frustrating. I am hoping that they can fix this with a firmware update.
They’re doing a handshake with the adapter to see it’s not an HP charger, Dell does this too on its docks
I don't think that's it because I have seen some reports of this behavior online with the official charger.
There doesn't really seem to be anything interesting about this.
Also while the US plug makes some pretty compact power adapters, the effect is largely ruined in the EU and UK with their wider more cumbersome plugs.
Also while the US plug makes some pretty compact power adapters, the effect is largely ruined in the EU and UK with their wider more cumbersome plugs.
Apple make an excellent UK 20W charger with folding pins.
Physically the design is pretty much the same as this new 60/40W version, so I would expect them to eventually offer a 60/40W folding pin UK charger too.
https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MUVT3B/A/20w-usb-c-pow...
Physically the design is pretty much the same as this new 60/40W version, so I would expect them to eventually offer a 60/40W folding pin UK charger too.
https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MUVT3B/A/20w-usb-c-pow...
What's interesting about it is that it supports SPR AVS, which is a new USB power delivery spec. I'm not aware of any other chargers that support this.
https://www.chargerlab.com/complete-pd-3-2-spr-avs-specifica...
https://www.chargerlab.com/complete-pd-3-2-spr-avs-specifica...
A lot support PPS, which seems like it offers a superset of SPR AVS's functionality? http://spravs.com/iphone-17-spr-avs-vs-pps
Apple will invent PPS for iPhone 18. /s
> There doesn't really seem to be anything interesting about this.
Agreed. Seriously, am I missing something or are the compact chargers from various other companies at least as compelling as this? I've got a nice one from Lenovo with high output and a smaller form factor than this. (Several other manufacturers have a similar size and output so nothing special about Lenovo here). The Apple one, while maybe smaller then their usual, is still bigger and appears to be short and "fat" which can limit where you can plug it sometimes.
Or is just another "but this time it is from Apple" kind of thing. (All the vapor chamber talk from a few days ago had me scratching my head too.)
Agreed. Seriously, am I missing something or are the compact chargers from various other companies at least as compelling as this? I've got a nice one from Lenovo with high output and a smaller form factor than this. (Several other manufacturers have a similar size and output so nothing special about Lenovo here). The Apple one, while maybe smaller then their usual, is still bigger and appears to be short and "fat" which can limit where you can plug it sometimes.
Or is just another "but this time it is from Apple" kind of thing. (All the vapor chamber talk from a few days ago had me scratching my head too.)
It’s slightly interesting in a “look how much stuff they crammed in there” way, but that would be true of a lot of other tiny chargers too.
Having read the article, I’m a little surprised this hit the front page. It’s well done as a tear down. But that’s all it is.
Having read the article, I’m a little surprised this hit the front page. It’s well done as a tear down. But that’s all it is.
Apple has a history of some quality and extremely compact power supplies.
I have to wonder if they have a team with an EE paired with an origami artist, with how creative some of the layouts get.
I have to wonder if they have a team with an EE paired with an origami artist, with how creative some of the layouts get.
Does Apple even design their own chargers? I know previous chargers have been built by Samsung, Flextronics, and other power electronics companies.
Apple sells Anker chargers from within their online store and possibly retail too so I figured they threw in the towel long ago. Honestly it seems quite overpriced when you can get a similar Anker GaN charger for much less.
And no, this isn't 2004 anymore, non-OEM chargers are outstanding as long as they're not $2 crap off AliExpress.
When Apple stopped including the charger in the box with iPhone as a sleazy money grab, it was a tacit admission that non-OEM chargers reigned supreme. Still didn't stop the pious and devout from shelling out an extra $25 though.
Apple sells Anker chargers from within their online store and possibly retail too so I figured they threw in the towel long ago. Honestly it seems quite overpriced when you can get a similar Anker GaN charger for much less.
And no, this isn't 2004 anymore, non-OEM chargers are outstanding as long as they're not $2 crap off AliExpress.
When Apple stopped including the charger in the box with iPhone as a sleazy money grab, it was a tacit admission that non-OEM chargers reigned supreme. Still didn't stop the pious and devout from shelling out an extra $25 though.
For a while Samsung made a lot of everything Apple made. I think that’s maybe more coincidence than ODM.
That said, if it were the case it wouldn’t be the first time. The LG 5K display was very much an Apple/LG project the former wasn’t happy to put their name on (in its defense, I have a revision 2 model and think it’s great). Logitech made Apple keyboards and Mice for a long time (no idea if that’s still the case) and would happily let you know in System Profiler or a manufacturing sticker somewhere in the product. In the 90s, many printing products were straight up HP and Cannon printers with a rainbow Apple logo. I’m guessing we wouldn’t really hear as much about the ODM rebrands of minor devices that work out that don’t make it obvious what they are.
That said, if it were the case it wouldn’t be the first time. The LG 5K display was very much an Apple/LG project the former wasn’t happy to put their name on (in its defense, I have a revision 2 model and think it’s great). Logitech made Apple keyboards and Mice for a long time (no idea if that’s still the case) and would happily let you know in System Profiler or a manufacturing sticker somewhere in the product. In the 90s, many printing products were straight up HP and Cannon printers with a rainbow Apple logo. I’m guessing we wouldn’t really hear as much about the ODM rebrands of minor devices that work out that don’t make it obvious what they are.
>Does Apple even design their own chargers?
Good question. For this one it says right on the package, designed by Apple in California.
Good question. For this one it says right on the package, designed by Apple in California.
Quality, yes. Extremely compact, no.
Something like the Anker Prime 100W GaN charger is far more compact than any charger Apple has shipped.
Now, granted, many compact chargers lie about how long they can provide sustained power. That's exactly what this "dynamic" charger is doing, except that it's being more up-front about the fact that it's not a 60W charger, it's a "60W until it's inevitably too hot" charger.
Something like the Anker Prime 100W GaN charger is far more compact than any charger Apple has shipped.
Now, granted, many compact chargers lie about how long they can provide sustained power. That's exactly what this "dynamic" charger is doing, except that it's being more up-front about the fact that it's not a 60W charger, it's a "60W until it's inevitably too hot" charger.
In the age of ultra-miniaturization it's fun to still see through-hole components that would be recognizable to someone from 100 years ago.
I wish they could do a 2 port version. During holiday I tend to charge both my Phone and Battery pack at the same time over night. Unless All Hotels around the world start doing integrated GaN 30 to 40W charging port as standard I will still need to bring my own USB-C Adaptor.
Even the same 60W max, 30W per port is enough to charge both to full in 2-3 hours.
Even the same 60W max, 30W per port is enough to charge both to full in 2-3 hours.
Why would it have to be GaN? a 40W charger wouldn't suffice at a hotel?
From my experience every hotel integrated charger is barely 5V 0.5A, much less PD or anything else. Parent comment was talking about the integrated usb chargers in rooms, if I’m understanding correctly (hence the need to still bring their own)
Confused since 2x10W sounds adequate for their overnight charging. (Which is still an upgrade for hotels, but a rather old one..)
Great that Apple is making smaller chargers. I use a 65w anker 715 charger which weighs 120g for my laptop - ridiculously small compared to the massive 140w charger the laptop came with.
I use a tiny 15 watt charger for my laptop.
It can just about charge the laptop whilst web browsing, but if anything CPU heavy happens then the battery discharges a bit.
But over a whole workday I find the charger is enough, and I prefer a smaller lighter charger over the ability to run a game 24x7.
It can just about charge the laptop whilst web browsing, but if anything CPU heavy happens then the battery discharges a bit.
But over a whole workday I find the charger is enough, and I prefer a smaller lighter charger over the ability to run a game 24x7.
I have one of the first Thinkpads to have a USB-c socket, and the PC can be recharged slowly that way using a low-wattage adapter, but then it will not draw any power at all from the charger when you turn the laptop on, you get a message informing you of this.
Install the BIOS update. after my update it charges on everything except a 5V only adapter, although it doesn't tell the OS it's charging unless it's on a 45 watt or more supply.
Thanks for this, looks like there is a BIOS update, I'll give it a try soon.
We have one a couple years older before USB-c and no more updated BIOS for that one though.
We have one a couple years older before USB-c and no more updated BIOS for that one though.
Yes. I probably could do with an even smaller charger.
I have an Anker nano II that get's very hot while charging my laptop (~25-35W average). I should run a thermometer on it. If I held it for more than a second, I might get a burn.
i went with ugreen gan charger, it has outlasted my apple chargers.
If anyone is in the market for power adapters I find SlimQ to be top tier.
https://slimq.life/
https://slimq.life/
I was mildly impressed until it got to the wall of slack-jawed selfies featuring titles like “gen-streamer” and my scam alarm bell started ringing.
I own a couple of these devices and they are the real deal but I understand how that can be off putting.
Full disclosure: they use some Chinese shipping service I’ve never heard of that may raise scam alerts further.
The adapters are smaller than comparables I have and work with every device I’ve tried. That being said, I haven’t done a teardown and I’ve only used them about half a year so far.
Full disclosure: they use some Chinese shipping service I’ve never heard of that may raise scam alerts further.
The adapters are smaller than comparables I have and work with every device I’ve tried. That being said, I haven’t done a teardown and I’ve only used them about half a year so far.
I also like these chargers. I use adapters to several companies' proprietary charging ports. I like they will do 240W in a SFF and have bonus USB-C ports for my phone and tablet (or whatever).
Would you bother to explain your motivation?
My motivation for buying one was that I used to have a huge laptop charger and my SlimQ is much easier to carry around.
My motivation for sharing is that I like the product and thought others might too. People responding in a thread about power adapters might be in the market for power adapters so I want to help them find good products.
My motivation for sharing is that I like the product and thought others might too. People responding in a thread about power adapters might be in the market for power adapters so I want to help them find good products.
How does one distinguish between all the tiny devils in the details between all possible chargers to have the maximum efficiency in ones iPhone charging?
There really aren’t any nuances to be aware of here. If the charger can provide 45W or more, it will charge your iPhone 17 Pro as fast as it can go. If you have an older iPhone, you don’t even need that much.
The Apple charger is mildly interesting because they made a slightly smaller than usual one that displays a dynamic behavior where it boosts up to 60W. That’s it.
(If you actually mean efficiency of energy delivered, and not time efficiency… the energy efficiency of charging your own personal phone is completely irrelevant to anything. You could save many times that amount of energy per year by switching to a heat pump water heater, or a heat pump clothes dryer, but most people haven’t.)
The Apple charger is mildly interesting because they made a slightly smaller than usual one that displays a dynamic behavior where it boosts up to 60W. That’s it.
(If you actually mean efficiency of energy delivered, and not time efficiency… the energy efficiency of charging your own personal phone is completely irrelevant to anything. You could save many times that amount of energy per year by switching to a heat pump water heater, or a heat pump clothes dryer, but most people haven’t.)
There was some speculation that chargers would need the AVS spec to full speed charge the new iPhones, rather than just any USB-PD. Has that been tested yet?
This post[0] seemed to be the main source of confusion, but it has since been updated at the bottom to apologize and say it wasn’t true.
You don’t need some kind of special charger.
[0]: https://9to5mac.com/2025/09/13/iphone-17-pro-fast-charging-p...
You don’t need some kind of special charger.
[0]: https://9to5mac.com/2025/09/13/iphone-17-pro-fast-charging-p...
That said, the Apple 40W charger does support AVS according to the fine print on its exterior:
https://photos5.appleinsider.com/gallery/65105-135925-Dynami...
I could definitely see maximum sustained charging speeds only being sustained with optimal supply voltages, which minimizes converter loss (and thereby heat, which is the actual limiting factor for fast charging these days) in the phone.
https://photos5.appleinsider.com/gallery/65105-135925-Dynami...
I could definitely see maximum sustained charging speeds only being sustained with optimal supply voltages, which minimizes converter loss (and thereby heat, which is the actual limiting factor for fast charging these days) in the phone.
I didn’t say the charger doesn’t support AVS. AVS is fine, but the practical impact on charging time is going to be difficult to notice in this specific case, if it exists at all. Apple does not even hint that AVS is needed to meet their charging time claim in their official documentation: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102574
Apple simply says “For iPhone 17 models, you can charge up to 50% battery in around 20 minutes with a 40W adapter or higher.”
Sure, it would be fun to see someone do a thorough test on this. No, I don’t agree with all the posts that are fear mongering people into believing they need some super fancy charger to reach the charging speeds Apple claimed, when Apple themselves doesn’t claim that, and the original 9to5Mac article no longer claims this true. There is simply no reason to believe that AVS is required, and anyone saying that has the burden of proof here.
Apple simply says “For iPhone 17 models, you can charge up to 50% battery in around 20 minutes with a 40W adapter or higher.”
Sure, it would be fun to see someone do a thorough test on this. No, I don’t agree with all the posts that are fear mongering people into believing they need some super fancy charger to reach the charging speeds Apple claimed, when Apple themselves doesn’t claim that, and the original 9to5Mac article no longer claims this true. There is simply no reason to believe that AVS is required, and anyone saying that has the burden of proof here.
It could of course also be included only for power efficiency without being strictly necessary for optimal charging performance, but cooling performance can vary between cases and with environmental conditions, so I suspect it might be at least partially a functional requirement.
More fearmongering. Provide proof, or please stop confusing people. This thread was asking for recommendations to understand how to charge their phone. The answer is extremely simple. This is not the thread to dig into irrelevant details. Read the room.
If you want to get technical, the difference in conversion losses between AVS at 13.3V@3A and a non-AVS 15V PDO @ 2.667A is going to be rounding error. Both need to be regulated down to about 3.5V to 4.2V by the phone's internal circuitry. A hypothetical buck converter that is just as efficient at 15V -> 3.5V as it is at 13.3V -> 3.5V would see no difference at all in heat generation. In the real world, such a small difference in input voltages at >1A would likely yield a less than 1% efficiency difference. 1% of 40W is 0.4W, but I repeat: I am saying less than 1%, not 1%. Based on tests I've seen in the past, previous iPhones could dissipate at least 4W of power continuously, forever, in normal ambient conditions. For a 95% efficient buck converter (which is probably conservative here), the total thermal load from charging at 40W is 2W. Unless the thermal load exceeds 4W, there should be no difference in charging speed potential. 2W + 0.4W would be 2.4W, which is well below the 4W threshold, and the buck converter on a high end smartphone is probably more than 95% efficient, while the difference in input voltages probably yields less than 1% difference in efficiency, so 2.4W is a very conservative number here. Keep in mind that phones can dissipate significantly more than 4W for brief bursts, and the charge curve on the battery isn't going to allow 40W charging for very long regardless of the thermals, so the phone likely has even more thermal headroom here in the real world. Even a 20V PDO @ 2A -> 3.5V should be perfectly fine here. I see no evidence that there is even a possibility of AVS making a difference here unless you wrap the phone in real insulation (not a phone case) or stick it in a toaster oven while charging.
Talking about how there might be an imperceptible difference under very specific extreme conditions is exactly what I would call fearmongering in a thread where someone was specifically asking for recommendations. It won't matter to anyone, ever, in any real world situation. This is not the thread to be contrarian for the sake of digging into minutiae. You're welcome to start a thread where that is the goal.
In summary: OP does not need to buy a fancy AVS-enabled charger. They shouldn't avoid such chargers, but there is no reason to get one. Unless you have material proof to the contrary that you want to present, but it seems like you don't.
If you want to get technical, the difference in conversion losses between AVS at 13.3V@3A and a non-AVS 15V PDO @ 2.667A is going to be rounding error. Both need to be regulated down to about 3.5V to 4.2V by the phone's internal circuitry. A hypothetical buck converter that is just as efficient at 15V -> 3.5V as it is at 13.3V -> 3.5V would see no difference at all in heat generation. In the real world, such a small difference in input voltages at >1A would likely yield a less than 1% efficiency difference. 1% of 40W is 0.4W, but I repeat: I am saying less than 1%, not 1%. Based on tests I've seen in the past, previous iPhones could dissipate at least 4W of power continuously, forever, in normal ambient conditions. For a 95% efficient buck converter (which is probably conservative here), the total thermal load from charging at 40W is 2W. Unless the thermal load exceeds 4W, there should be no difference in charging speed potential. 2W + 0.4W would be 2.4W, which is well below the 4W threshold, and the buck converter on a high end smartphone is probably more than 95% efficient, while the difference in input voltages probably yields less than 1% difference in efficiency, so 2.4W is a very conservative number here. Keep in mind that phones can dissipate significantly more than 4W for brief bursts, and the charge curve on the battery isn't going to allow 40W charging for very long regardless of the thermals, so the phone likely has even more thermal headroom here in the real world. Even a 20V PDO @ 2A -> 3.5V should be perfectly fine here. I see no evidence that there is even a possibility of AVS making a difference here unless you wrap the phone in real insulation (not a phone case) or stick it in a toaster oven while charging.
Talking about how there might be an imperceptible difference under very specific extreme conditions is exactly what I would call fearmongering in a thread where someone was specifically asking for recommendations. It won't matter to anyone, ever, in any real world situation. This is not the thread to be contrarian for the sake of digging into minutiae. You're welcome to start a thread where that is the goal.
In summary: OP does not need to buy a fancy AVS-enabled charger. They shouldn't avoid such chargers, but there is no reason to get one. Unless you have material proof to the contrary that you want to present, but it seems like you don't.
I don't have access to, nor a need for, the 40W charger, yet I'll continue speculating about it (which is why I prefixed my comments with "I could see", "it could", and "I suspect"), thank you very much.
Mainly, I'm trying to understand why AVS is supported by both the phone and the adapter if supposedly it makes effectively no difference.
It could be as simple as being a requirement for PD 3.2 wall adapters, of course, but that raises the question for why it's required as well, if it's supposedly that irrelevant.
Mainly, I'm trying to understand why AVS is supported by both the phone and the adapter if supposedly it makes effectively no difference.
It could be as simple as being a requirement for PD 3.2 wall adapters, of course, but that raises the question for why it's required as well, if it's supposedly that irrelevant.
There is nothing to speculate about here, other than to create confusion for others. The physics is immensely clear. AVS is not needed here, and OP can save money by buying whatever is the cheapest option that provides >40W.
Since I have shown through basic math that it isn’t related to the ability to charge the phone any faster, that possibility is obviously eliminated.
AVS is likely supported because there’s no reason not to support it. It is part of the newer USB-C PD specs, which Apple wants to support, and it continues to iteratively refine the energy efficiency of the charging process, which matters a small amount at a scale of billions of devices, but doesn’t matter at all for a single individual’s purchasing decision.
Since I have shown through basic math that it isn’t related to the ability to charge the phone any faster, that possibility is obviously eliminated.
AVS is likely supported because there’s no reason not to support it. It is part of the newer USB-C PD specs, which Apple wants to support, and it continues to iteratively refine the energy efficiency of the charging process, which matters a small amount at a scale of billions of devices, but doesn’t matter at all for a single individual’s purchasing decision.
Sorry, I wasn't aware this was a tech purchasing recommendation site instead of a discussion forum for hackers ;)
The pictures in the article are very nice and well done but I could not stop noticing the dirty yellow cable they used in some shots…
Didn't see that, but they do tend to look that way after some real-world usage.
Yeah its just a shame – the photos look so professional and clean otherwise.
I'm really impressed by Anker's 30w charger that's the size of Apple's original 5w charger.
Amazing tear down and such compact design, but it's such a shame that these devices are glued together. Every time you see a glued device, just think "future e-waste".
This criticism seems fair of devices with consumable parts, like batteries. But of a charger? How can this be anything other than waste once it's no longer useful?
Exactly! Shameless plug: we do a repairable design for e-bike battery which uses no glue (https://gouach.com)
Really nice, and in the future those cells could be upcycled or repaired. The design is also quite dense.
To be clear, I have designed high-density electronics myself which were repairable - it's tough but doable.
To be clear, I have designed high-density electronics myself which were repairable - it's tough but doable.
Exactly! It's known that recycling pristine cells that haven't been glued/welded etc makes it much easier and efficient to recover lithium, so that's also a win for recycling
Not bad, I thought the folding prongs on this Apple adapter made it a fairly shameless plug itself :)
haha :)
All this info but wheres the rating out of 10?
Anyone else think those inductor windings look sloppy like they were done by hand instead of a machine?
Site seems to be down?
It eventually loaded for me. Alternatively: https://archive.is/tOC9a
For me, it triggered the Google Safe Browsing blocklist (I'm using NextDNS).
Thank you! This was my issue as well.
i was already sad the link wasn't righto.com when it's about chargers, and then it completely disappointed by not loading :)
and it's barely past 10 votes.
and it's barely past 10 votes.
Very innovative --- if it had multiple ports and had been released in 2019.
GaN in action!
Very cool to see more incredibly detailed and well photographed teardowns outside of Ifixit.
Wonder if they could compare this to GAN options from Anker or other competitors?
Still kind of annoyed how much my apple power adapter weighs, but I'm too cheap to really buy another one just so it weighs less haha.
Wonder if they could compare this to GAN options from Anker or other competitors?
Still kind of annoyed how much my apple power adapter weighs, but I'm too cheap to really buy another one just so it weighs less haha.
Its so classically Apple that just when most brands are starting to standardize on PPS (Programmable Power Supply) to allow any voltage to be used, they come with an alternate standard AVS (Adjustable Voltage Supply) just to force people to buy their certified chargers.
The sole benefit of AVS over PPS is that AVS goes beyond 100W. But these chargers only do 60W. And it would have cost Apple almost nothing to also add PPS to their phones and chargers.
Edit: hello fanboys :)
The sole benefit of AVS over PPS is that AVS goes beyond 100W. But these chargers only do 60W. And it would have cost Apple almost nothing to also add PPS to their phones and chargers.
Edit: hello fanboys :)
AVS was created by the USB PD specification team (the USB Promoter Group/USB-IF), not Apple. AVS was introduced as part of PD 3.1 in 2021, albeit for >100W only. I believe Google was technically first out of the gate with a charger that supports the PDS 3.2 flavor of AVS.
You're completely ignoring that Apple is purposely choosing not to also add support PPS and instead use AVS so they can push people from generic Anker / Belkin / Baseus PPS chargers to their own Apple chargers. For a while anyway.
It would make more sense if they used it for their MacBook chargers, but AFAIK the sole charger they having going beyond 100W is the 16" Pro charger at 140W. Every other Macbook charger is between 45W-96W.
It would make more sense if they used it for their MacBook chargers, but AFAIK the sole charger they having going beyond 100W is the 16" Pro charger at 140W. Every other Macbook charger is between 45W-96W.
This is coming across as more than a bit delusional. Adding a new standard to a charger is not “forcing” anyone to avoid other chargers in any sense. AVS adds functionality to this charger, it doesn’t take it away from other ones.
If AVS is only part of the USB-C PD spec over 100W then yes Apple is doing something non-standard and not "adding a new standard." They're going to make 3rd party charger providers add some Apple-specific logic that isn't in the PD spec and isn't used by any other devices if this is true.
If this is true, then if you own a 3rd party charger that is up-to-date with the very latest USB PD specs, your charger is going to charge an iPhone 17/Air/17 Pro more slowly than buying Apple's new charger.
(I don't claim to know the technical details of whether AVS is part of the spec below 100W or not, I am just going by the comments in this thread and speaking of the hypothetical)
If this is true, then if you own a 3rd party charger that is up-to-date with the very latest USB PD specs, your charger is going to charge an iPhone 17/Air/17 Pro more slowly than buying Apple's new charger.
(I don't claim to know the technical details of whether AVS is part of the spec below 100W or not, I am just going by the comments in this thread and speaking of the hypothetical)
Since I wrote my comment I found out that yes this is a standard, the 3.2 version of USB-PD.
https://youtu.be/TYEqCgMnA8U
https://youtu.be/TYEqCgMnA8U
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