Cooking and bird safety(teflon.com)
teflon.com
Cooking and bird safety
https://www.teflon.com/en/consumers/teflon-coatings-cookware-bakeware/safety/bird-safety
230 comments
I think carbon steel is better than stainless. It can be seasoned to almost Teflon levels of non-stickness, just by burning some cooking oil, the seasoning is maintained by cooking, often comes pre-seasoned, is cheap (there’s no reason to buy an expensive carbon steel pan! Get one from a restaurant supplier)
So you eat burnt oil every time you cook?
No, like with a cast iron skillet, the hard, black, very-attached, coating is the burnt oil. Cast iron and carbon steel are normally shiny metal, not dull black, without this layer.
The oil fills the pores of the metal and polymerizes. Subsequent layers cross-link with each other to develop the non-stick coating. It doesn't really 'come off' although I'm sure small amounts will occasionally. It doesn't contribute to flavor and it's not exactly toxic. Same deal as cast iron, details here. [1]
[1] https://www.lodgecastiron.com/cleaning-and-care/cast-iron/sc...
The oil fills the pores of the metal and polymerizes. Subsequent layers cross-link with each other to develop the non-stick coating. It doesn't really 'come off' although I'm sure small amounts will occasionally. It doesn't contribute to flavor and it's not exactly toxic. Same deal as cast iron, details here. [1]
[1] https://www.lodgecastiron.com/cleaning-and-care/cast-iron/sc...
Most oils polymerize at high temperatures. Getting the temperature juuuust right is pretty tricky in a home setting. Much easier is to just burn the shit out of the oil and wipe away the burnt oil, leaving any oil that happened to polymerize behind.
This is in fact how they used to make linseed based paints. They'd boil the oil, setting the stage for it to polymerize, and add pigments. The oil would slowly polymerize after being applied, locking the pigment into place. These days I think they mostly use chemical accelerants instead, Which makes the curing times much more tolerable.
This is in fact how they used to make linseed based paints. They'd boil the oil, setting the stage for it to polymerize, and add pigments. The oil would slowly polymerize after being applied, locking the pigment into place. These days I think they mostly use chemical accelerants instead, Which makes the curing times much more tolerable.
only if you don't clean out your pan. Any youtube video on seasoning it will explain it quite well. Seasoning isn't "burnt oil" by any stretch or chemistry.
Ton of people here mentioned carbon steel, so I've ordered one :) Will see how it goes! Thanks folks.
I would add that is far better and easier to season, almost as easy to maintain, and much less cantankerous. I use stainless for sauces and such but carbon steel or trust old cast iron is a much better choice for the majority of kitchens. Stainless steel is great for commercial though since it's nearly maintenance free
I switched to stainless last year after getting fed up of going through so many teflon pans, and decided I wanted to stop ingesting teflon flakes (I know PFOA is not technically in the end result and it's supposed to be inert, but I'd rather not ingest it all the same).
Cooking on stainless is not as bad as I expected in terms of sticking, it does require better care over temperature control, but that also seems to have resulted in me cooking better. Also when stuff does get a little stuck or burnt, it comes off without deteriorating the pan unlike non-stick.
Cooking on stainless is not as bad as I expected in terms of sticking, it does require better care over temperature control, but that also seems to have resulted in me cooking better. Also when stuff does get a little stuck or burnt, it comes off without deteriorating the pan unlike non-stick.
Honestly my favorite thing about non-nonstick pans is how if something gets stuck you can just dig it out with a metal implement. Turns out things sticking is much less a problem if you can just force a sharp metal spatula under there.
We use seasoned cast iron for eggs with very few issues. We used to use butter which led to some sticking, however recently we've been using olive oil and it's much better, with little to no sticking depending on what style we're cooking the eggs.
Wow I've had the opposite experience with my lodge cast iron pan.
Butter is the only thing that allows my eggs to not stick.
Olive oil and vegetable oils in general cause more sticking.
Maybe we preheat our pans differently? Do you use very low heat but preheat for a longer time?
Butter is the only thing that allows my eggs to not stick.
Olive oil and vegetable oils in general cause more sticking.
Maybe we preheat our pans differently? Do you use very low heat but preheat for a longer time?
Thanks for the replies everyone. I've loved and cooked on my cast iron and carbon steel pans for years but recently life got busy and I went back to non stick for some things (like scrambled eggs or salmon skin).
I think we just forget how low maintenance a non stick pan is for normal people who don't care about cooking. To normal folks, the idea of preheating a pan slowly, or wiping some oil on with a piece of paper and reheating the pan to dry it (after cooking!) are extra steps that take time out of your busy day. I do notice I use fewer paper towels once switching back to nonstick. I probably also use less oil in my cooking too!
I think we just forget how low maintenance a non stick pan is for normal people who don't care about cooking. To normal folks, the idea of preheating a pan slowly, or wiping some oil on with a piece of paper and reheating the pan to dry it (after cooking!) are extra steps that take time out of your busy day. I do notice I use fewer paper towels once switching back to nonstick. I probably also use less oil in my cooking too!
Do you mean just salmon skin? How do you prepare it?
I just smoked a batch of salmon, skin-on. When we eat some, some very happy dogs get the skin. I would be curious if there was a good prep for human consumption though.
I'm not usually a fan of the texture straight off the meat, but frying it up does sound good! And after all, this has been smoked already, so there's a ton of flavor.
Humans can eat it the same way. I just pan fry until it's crispy and add some salt to taste. My kids love fried salmon skin (along with salmon + rice + dry seaweed wrap).
This sounds great! A salmon version of pork cracklings but somewhat more umami.
Once properly seasoned (not in the r/castiron sense, but cooked on for a while on top of a solid base coast of seasoning) I just don't really get any sticking at all on my lodge pans. Oil or butter. There's recommendations for pan temp, etc, but I'd say just cook on it some more and it stops mattering.
When I first get a new pan it's very picky with technique, but cooking some bacon and steak on it for a few weeks, and nothing sticks anymore.
When I first get a new pan it's very picky with technique, but cooking some bacon and steak on it for a few weeks, and nothing sticks anymore.
I love my Lodge but modern cast irons like Lodge can never get that true non-stick texture that people talk about, although it can reach a not bad level [1]
[1] https://www.seriouseats.com/the-truth-about-cast-iron#toc-my...
[1] https://www.seriouseats.com/the-truth-about-cast-iron#toc-my...
This guy seemed to manage. Here's a video of an egg cooked on a cast iron skillet without oil. [1]
It doesn't have to be absolutely perfect without oil - a thin coat will yield perfectly comparable results.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33OaD3RikXo
It doesn't have to be absolutely perfect without oil - a thin coat will yield perfectly comparable results.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33OaD3RikXo
Higher heat means there's a more robust steam layer, but then that means you either need to be stirring or flipping or adding some water and a lid for steaming.
To heat the pan I turn the electric range to high for a bit and then down to 4 (of 10), and then I turn it off before the eggs are done, as the thick cast-iron pan and the glass and coil has enough residual energy. Same for popcorn, same for pancakes, etc.
To heat the pan I turn the electric range to high for a bit and then down to 4 (of 10), and then I turn it off before the eggs are done, as the thick cast-iron pan and the glass and coil has enough residual energy. Same for popcorn, same for pancakes, etc.
No love for shortening, lard, or good old bacon grease (if you're eating eggs you're likely eating bacon as well)?
Interesting, I've also got a Lodge. I use a low heat with a longer preheat, usually somewhere between a 3 or 4 out of 10 for for I'd say 2-3 minutes or so to preheat (not sure if that's relatively long or not).
Maybe it's the seasoning? I haven't seasoned ours in a long time but the last time I did I used flax seed oil.
Maybe it's the seasoning? I haven't seasoned ours in a long time but the last time I did I used flax seed oil.
I generally preheat my cast iron until drops of water instantly sizzle away or for searing dance around the pan . I pretty much only use extra virgin olive oil (low heat cooking) or avacado oil (high heat cooking, like searing a steak) in a well seasoned cast iron pan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leidenfrost_effect
Same here. One thing that works really well to cook eggs in our daily-use cast-iron pan is to add a tablespoon or so of water and put a lid on; the steam cooks the top of the eggs this way. Not great if you like your eggs brown and crispy, but it is very easy to clean; if there are any stray bits I just wipe them out with paper and put that in the compost.
yeah I use my hexclad or well seasoned cast iron for eggs. An unsung hero is also carbon steel, as it's lighter and smoother (unless want to pay arm and a leg for super smooth bottom ground cast iron). Stainless is great for sauces or something that has a lot of acid (which can eat away at your seasoning in in cast/carbon steel). Carbon steel is super easy to season as well because it's extremely smooth.
If you've got a respirator & an angle grinder, cast iron is easy to grind smooth.
but y tho? I use (in addition to my carbon steel pans) the standard cast iron el cheapo version of Lodge and nothing sticks if you season your pan and heat to the proper temperature.
Carbon steel seasons more effectively and is both lighter and heats more evenly than cast iron (but requires similar maintenance). Well worth a look.
If you don't mind using a moderately high amount of fat (~1.5 tbsp for 4-5 eggs), stainless is perfectly fine for eggs. If you start with med-high heat be sure to drop it down relatively quickly. Or fry on medium to med-low heat the whole way through. For whatever reason beaten eggs seem to stick even less (basically not at all) so omelets and scrambled eggs are my go-to. I've gotten my technique down so I can flip my omelets with the stainless pan, no spatula required.
I’ll give that a try tomorrow! I normally put scrambled eggs in a cold pan and whisk while heating because either I’m a masochist, like creamy eggs, or both.
Cast iron is fantastic for eggs. After you season it well and use it for a bit it's almost as non-stick as a teflon pan. There's videos of well seasoned pans cooking eggs without oil. You can throw metal utensils at it, and just wipe it down with some oil when you're done. Holds heat well, sears well, goes into the oven. If you're only going to have two pieces of cookware, a stainless stock pot and lodge 10" skillet is all you really need. Best of all if you mess up, you can just take the seasoning off and re-do it. It will outlast your grandchildren.
Agree. We are 100% on stainless steel and cast iron now for a few years. Teflon is not really needed.
I’m not sure you can really season stainless steel? It’s not porous
I have gotten an amazing season on stainless steel by slowly cooking oil onto it. It crosslinke into a super hard super smooth almost ceramic surface.
You can also use a drill attachment polish one stainless steel pan to a mirror chrome finish, then heat it up, add oil and add the rgg to thr cold oil. For me that guarantees teflon level performance of nonstick. However, the mirror finish has lower emissivity so its a bit weird at first when a hot pan doesnt seem to transfer heat to the food at nearly the rate that it “should”.
You can also use a drill attachment polish one stainless steel pan to a mirror chrome finish, then heat it up, add oil and add the rgg to thr cold oil. For me that guarantees teflon level performance of nonstick. However, the mirror finish has lower emissivity so its a bit weird at first when a hot pan doesnt seem to transfer heat to the food at nearly the rate that it “should”.
You’re right that you don’t season stainless steel, but I think it is porous, that’s why it sticks (don’t quote me on that)
You can’t season it like cast, but you can definitely get a really nice anti-stuck surface on it.
A lot of people will treat their woks with oil to get that type of low stick surface.
A lot of people will treat their woks with oil to get that type of low stick surface.
Usually woks are carbon steel rather than stainless though, and definitely need an oil seasoning.
It still works. I do it on my stainless wok.
It certainly isn't as resilient as my cast iron, but it works and is super easy.
It certainly isn't as resilient as my cast iron, but it works and is super easy.
Woks are carbon steel, not stainless
I’ve switched over from nonstick to pre-seasoned carbon steel for my eggs and meats. Stainless steel for all other things.
I have great success with stainless steel and butter for non-stick when cooking eggs. Never use Teflon.
Ramen eggs is where it's at.
I really love eggs, but they’re really high in cholesterol. It’s better to skip them, sadly.
I wouldn’t normally offer unsolicited advice like this, but this is a thread about optimizing for health/safety. If you’re going to avoid teflon, you should probably avoid eggs too.
I wouldn’t normally offer unsolicited advice like this, but this is a thread about optimizing for health/safety. If you’re going to avoid teflon, you should probably avoid eggs too.
You don't need to skip eggs! They are high in cholesterol, but the dietary cholesterol from eggs doesn't impact your serum (blood) cholesterol levels the way other fats do. Eggs are one of the best bang-for-your-buck foods you can work into your diet.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-ch...
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-ch...
The site you linked says that studies have shown a link between eating eggs and heart disease, which was the basis of my suggestion that they be avoided.
> Although some studies have found a link between eating eggs and heart disease, there could be other reasons for these findings.
and:
> Health experts now suggest eating as little dietary cholesterol as you can, aiming to keep intake under 300 milligrams (mg) a day. One large egg has about 186 mg of cholesterol — all of which is found in the yolk.
People really like eggs, me included. That unfortunately doesn’t change the fact that they’re bad for you and we shouldn’t eat them (and I no longer do). Two eggs is more than the recommended daily total amount of cholesterol, and a good omelette is 3. I don’t imagine most people are going to be vegan for 60 hours following to compensate.
> Although some studies have found a link between eating eggs and heart disease, there could be other reasons for these findings.
and:
> Health experts now suggest eating as little dietary cholesterol as you can, aiming to keep intake under 300 milligrams (mg) a day. One large egg has about 186 mg of cholesterol — all of which is found in the yolk.
People really like eggs, me included. That unfortunately doesn’t change the fact that they’re bad for you and we shouldn’t eat them (and I no longer do). Two eggs is more than the recommended daily total amount of cholesterol, and a good omelette is 3. I don’t imagine most people are going to be vegan for 60 hours following to compensate.
Straight from the 2015 USDA guidelines:
Previously, the Dietary Guidelines for Americans recommended that cholesterol intake be limited to no more than 300 milligrams per day. The 2015 DGAC will not bring forward this recommendation because available evidence shows no appreciable relationship between consumption of dietary cholesterol and serum cholesterol, consistent with the conclusions of the AHA/ACC report. Cholesterol is not a nutrient of concern for overconsumption.
Page 72: https://health.gov/sites/default/files/2019-09/Scientific-Re...
Previously, the Dietary Guidelines for Americans recommended that cholesterol intake be limited to no more than 300 milligrams per day. The 2015 DGAC will not bring forward this recommendation because available evidence shows no appreciable relationship between consumption of dietary cholesterol and serum cholesterol, consistent with the conclusions of the AHA/ACC report. Cholesterol is not a nutrient of concern for overconsumption.
Page 72: https://health.gov/sites/default/files/2019-09/Scientific-Re...
Straight from the actual current guidelines:
"A note on trans fats and dietary cholesterol: The National Academies recommends that trans fat and dietary cholesterol consumption to be as low as possible without compromising the nutritional adequacy of the diet. The USDA Dietary Patterns are limited in trans fats and low in dietary cholesterol. Cholesterol and a small amount of trans fat occur naturally in some animal source foods. As of June 2018, partially hydrogenated oils (PHOs), the major source of artificial trans fat in the food supply, are no longer Generally Recognized as Safe (GRAS). Therefore, PHOs are no longer added to foods."
Source: https://www.dietaryguidelines.gov/sites/default/files/2020-1...
"A note on trans fats and dietary cholesterol: The National Academies recommends that trans fat and dietary cholesterol consumption to be as low as possible without compromising the nutritional adequacy of the diet. The USDA Dietary Patterns are limited in trans fats and low in dietary cholesterol. Cholesterol and a small amount of trans fat occur naturally in some animal source foods. As of June 2018, partially hydrogenated oils (PHOs), the major source of artificial trans fat in the food supply, are no longer Generally Recognized as Safe (GRAS). Therefore, PHOs are no longer added to foods."
Source: https://www.dietaryguidelines.gov/sites/default/files/2020-1...
So, I've read the linked report. I think it's important to include the full context. If it wasn't important, it wouldn't be in the report in the first place.
The quote appears on page 44. On the same page, before the quote, there's additional information about saturated fats:
> Healthy U.S.-Style Dietary Pattern include saturated fat. Approximately 5 percent of total calories inherent to the nutrient-dense foods in the Healthy U.S.-Style Dietary Pattern are from saturated fat from sources such as lean meat, poultry, and eggs; nuts and seeds; grains; and saturated fatty acids in oils. As such, there is little room to include additional saturated fat in a healthy dietary pattern while staying within limits for saturated fat and total calories.
Following that, on page 45, there's figure 1-11 called "Top Sources and Average Intakes of Saturated Fat: U.S. Population Ages 1 and Older". It breaks down the average saturated fat consumption by food types. It's summarized on the page 44:
> The main sources of saturated fat in the U.S. diet include sandwiches, including burgers, tacos, and burritos; desserts and sweet snacks; and rice, pasta, and other grain-based mixed dishes.
The Figure 1-11 shows that eggs amount to 3% of the average saturate fat intake; same as starchy vegetables (3%) and slightly less than non-starchy vegetables (4%). The main sources, as mentioned before, are sandwiches (19%) and desserts and snacks (11%).
Right after that there are practical recommendations about limiting saturated fats intake:
> Strategies to lower saturated fat intake include reducing intakes of dessert and sweet snacks by consuming smaller portion sizes and eating these foods less often. Additional strategies include reading food labels to choose packaged foods lower in saturated fats and choosing lower fat forms of foods and beverages (e.g., fat-free or low-fat milk instead of 2 percent or whole milk; lean rather than fatty cuts of meat). When cooking and purchasing meals, select lean meat and lower fat cheese in place of high-fat meats and regular cheese—or replace them with ingredients with oils, such as nuts, seeds, or avocado. Cook and purchase products made with oils higher in polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fat (e.g., canola, corn, olive, peanut, safflower, soybean, and sunflower) rather than butter, shortening, or coconut or palm oils.
Careful readers will notice eggs don't appear in the above paragraph.
The quote appears on page 44. On the same page, before the quote, there's additional information about saturated fats:
> Healthy U.S.-Style Dietary Pattern include saturated fat. Approximately 5 percent of total calories inherent to the nutrient-dense foods in the Healthy U.S.-Style Dietary Pattern are from saturated fat from sources such as lean meat, poultry, and eggs; nuts and seeds; grains; and saturated fatty acids in oils. As such, there is little room to include additional saturated fat in a healthy dietary pattern while staying within limits for saturated fat and total calories.
Following that, on page 45, there's figure 1-11 called "Top Sources and Average Intakes of Saturated Fat: U.S. Population Ages 1 and Older". It breaks down the average saturated fat consumption by food types. It's summarized on the page 44:
> The main sources of saturated fat in the U.S. diet include sandwiches, including burgers, tacos, and burritos; desserts and sweet snacks; and rice, pasta, and other grain-based mixed dishes.
The Figure 1-11 shows that eggs amount to 3% of the average saturate fat intake; same as starchy vegetables (3%) and slightly less than non-starchy vegetables (4%). The main sources, as mentioned before, are sandwiches (19%) and desserts and snacks (11%).
Right after that there are practical recommendations about limiting saturated fats intake:
> Strategies to lower saturated fat intake include reducing intakes of dessert and sweet snacks by consuming smaller portion sizes and eating these foods less often. Additional strategies include reading food labels to choose packaged foods lower in saturated fats and choosing lower fat forms of foods and beverages (e.g., fat-free or low-fat milk instead of 2 percent or whole milk; lean rather than fatty cuts of meat). When cooking and purchasing meals, select lean meat and lower fat cheese in place of high-fat meats and regular cheese—or replace them with ingredients with oils, such as nuts, seeds, or avocado. Cook and purchase products made with oils higher in polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fat (e.g., canola, corn, olive, peanut, safflower, soybean, and sunflower) rather than butter, shortening, or coconut or palm oils.
Careful readers will notice eggs don't appear in the above paragraph.
? This is about dietary cholesterol, not saturated fat.
And you got downvoted. I guess the guideline only matter to people when it doesn't comes to their favorite foods.
Maybe just avoid heart diseases and then you can have as many eggs as you would like. Correlation works both ways.
A few points to demonstrate why your comment might be seen as unpopular:
1) Dietary (exogenous) cholesterol has been shown to have a lesser affect to the total cholesterol levels in the blood (70-80% of all the cholesterol in your body is produced by your body endogenously by your liver and other tissues).
2) Eggs are an affordable source of various fats and proteins that are essential to metabolic health.
3) There are a group of people who assert that correcting hypercholesterolemia is best done by understanding the root cause of the overproduction of endogenous cholesterol.
4) We are beginning to understand that not all cholesterol is the same, and that high total cholesterol alone isn't a sufficient biomarker for predicting heart disease. Advanced lipoprotein fractionation tests looking for the ratio of small dense LDL to normal LDL, and HDL cholesterol is a better test; small dense LDL is bad and is a biomarker for inflammation and artery calcification, which can lead to heart disease.
1) Dietary (exogenous) cholesterol has been shown to have a lesser affect to the total cholesterol levels in the blood (70-80% of all the cholesterol in your body is produced by your body endogenously by your liver and other tissues).
2) Eggs are an affordable source of various fats and proteins that are essential to metabolic health.
3) There are a group of people who assert that correcting hypercholesterolemia is best done by understanding the root cause of the overproduction of endogenous cholesterol.
4) We are beginning to understand that not all cholesterol is the same, and that high total cholesterol alone isn't a sufficient biomarker for predicting heart disease. Advanced lipoprotein fractionation tests looking for the ratio of small dense LDL to normal LDL, and HDL cholesterol is a better test; small dense LDL is bad and is a biomarker for inflammation and artery calcification, which can lead to heart disease.
Of serum cholesterol about 80% is made by your liver, it doesn't come from your diet. [1]
[1] https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/how-its-made-cho...
[1] https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/how-its-made-cho...
Being high in cholesterol doesn't necessarily mean they need to be omitted. Look up Japanese egg consumption & see the country's relative good health.
If your aim is to avoid anything that could potentially be dangerous for you in high quantities, how fun would life really be?
You can lower your intake rather than skipping out on life's gold like scrambled eggs.
You can lower your intake rather than skipping out on life's gold like scrambled eggs.
Some good comments on this already. The series of posts at [0] probably has more detail than needed. Some quotes from the summary of part 1.
> Most of the cholesterol we eat is not absorbed and is excreted by our gut...
> ...most of the cholesterol in our body was made by our body.
> The process of regulating cholesterol is very complex and multifaceted with multiple layers of control.
> Eating cholesterol has very little impact on the cholesterol levels in your body.
[0] https://peterattiamd.com/the-straight-dope-on-cholesterol-pa...
> Most of the cholesterol we eat is not absorbed and is excreted by our gut...
> ...most of the cholesterol in our body was made by our body.
> The process of regulating cholesterol is very complex and multifaceted with multiple layers of control.
> Eating cholesterol has very little impact on the cholesterol levels in your body.
[0] https://peterattiamd.com/the-straight-dope-on-cholesterol-pa...
Just eat pasture raised eggs. It’s only the grain fed eggs that have bad cholesterol.
They’re expensive, but given the nutrient density it’s worth it for me.
They’re expensive, but given the nutrient density it’s worth it for me.
There is no such thing as dietary “bad cholesterol”.
When people use that term, it generally refers to low-density lipoproteins, which are an endogenous transportation mechanism for cholesterol in your body.
All dietary cholesterol is just cholesterol, and it essentially has no impact on serum (blood) cholesterol levels.
When people use that term, it generally refers to low-density lipoproteins, which are an endogenous transportation mechanism for cholesterol in your body.
All dietary cholesterol is just cholesterol, and it essentially has no impact on serum (blood) cholesterol levels.
Are you saying that dietary fat won't make me fat?
I have nothing to back this up with* but my understanding is that simple carbohydrates like sugar are more readily converted to bodily fat. Dietary fat is digested and processed by the body into component parts that are less readily converted into bodily fat. It's not like your body just takes fat and stores it directly in your love handles unmodified.
*Found this though: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1199523/
*Found this though: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1199523/
Yes, unless you eat too much.
Since a few years, I do own only iron pans. Teflon for home use as pans was a ridiculous idea: you need to take care of it and it will wear out after some time and needs to be replaced. Iron pans need very little care and get better with age. What is the point?
It's super non-stick.
I know you're going to rebut with saying that iron pans are too, and I'm sure they are, but most people don't want to put in any level of the effort needed to make iron pans as non-stick as teflon.
A lot of people care only a mild amount about cooking, and don't want to invest the time to know how to properly use a cast iron or a carbon steel (which I have and only seldom use). They'd rather get a non-stick pan which lasts a while anyway, throw whatever on there, and never worry about food sticking or cleaning it after.
I know you're going to rebut with saying that iron pans are too, and I'm sure they are, but most people don't want to put in any level of the effort needed to make iron pans as non-stick as teflon.
A lot of people care only a mild amount about cooking, and don't want to invest the time to know how to properly use a cast iron or a carbon steel (which I have and only seldom use). They'd rather get a non-stick pan which lasts a while anyway, throw whatever on there, and never worry about food sticking or cleaning it after.
This. I absolutely hate cooking. With a passion. I don't want to spend time on it.
I wish it was possible to buy decent home cooked food for a reasonable fee :(
We can outsource pretty much everything else that's a chore. I drop my washing in a bag to be ready for a tenner tomorrow. Groceries can be delivered for cheap.
But delivered or takeaway food is generally very expensive and not very healthy. It's still viewed as a luxury.
There's just no benefit to cooking for a single person and I just hate doing it so much. So I get implements that make cleanup as simple as possible. Like the non-stick pans.
It's very different for someone who would view coming as a hobby and takes pride in it.
I wish it was possible to buy decent home cooked food for a reasonable fee :(
We can outsource pretty much everything else that's a chore. I drop my washing in a bag to be ready for a tenner tomorrow. Groceries can be delivered for cheap.
But delivered or takeaway food is generally very expensive and not very healthy. It's still viewed as a luxury.
There's just no benefit to cooking for a single person and I just hate doing it so much. So I get implements that make cleanup as simple as possible. Like the non-stick pans.
It's very different for someone who would view coming as a hobby and takes pride in it.
Idk to me this sounds like: I hate washing myself or I hate going to the bathroom. Maybe it’s a cultural thing but adults just need to be able to cook in my society. No place for hefty emotions. Just a fact of life.
It might be nice to live in a society where not cooking is possible. Probably less healthy though, you have different incentives than people making your food. (Taste [salt levels] and “adictiveness” vs healthy and nutritious).
Cooking is a skill, it takes practices and you have to develop some dexterity. But I usually enjoy it now.
I have to admit I never really cooked extensively for 1 person. I imagine I’d use the freezer a lot for lasagnas and sauces etc.
Check out “Nat’s what I reckon”.
It might be nice to live in a society where not cooking is possible. Probably less healthy though, you have different incentives than people making your food. (Taste [salt levels] and “adictiveness” vs healthy and nutritious).
Cooking is a skill, it takes practices and you have to develop some dexterity. But I usually enjoy it now.
I have to admit I never really cooked extensively for 1 person. I imagine I’d use the freezer a lot for lasagnas and sauces etc.
Check out “Nat’s what I reckon”.
>Maybe it’s a cultural thing but adults just need to be able to cook in my society. No place for hefty emotions. Just a fact of life.
I have an impaired sense of smell, as do 20% of the adult population. Most foods are utterly bland or actively repulsive to me. Sweet tastes are mildly pleasant, but otherwise I do not enjoy eating, I just do it to avoid hunger. I maintain a BMI of 19, but only because I actively monitor my food intake to avoid becoming clinically underweight.
Cooking is a chore that I will perform in the most perfunctory way possible in order to keep myself alive, but it is also something I will avoid wherever possible. Any effort I might put into making a delicious meal is wasted on me, because I don't have the sensory apparatus to perceive deliciousness.
From my perspective, the world seems almost pathologically obsessed with food. People often struggle to understand my complete indifference to food ("surely there must be some foods you enjoy"), but I struggle to understand how vast numbers of people eat so much that they become disabled and die prematurely. I can only make sense of it through the lens of addiction, which would raise all sorts of questions about the way in which we think talk about food versus other addictive substances.
My experience is obviously atypical (although not as uncommon as you might imagine), but I can't help thinking that the rest of you would be better off if you took a slightly more functional and utilitarian approach to eating. Obviously you can't just all pretend that you don't enjoy eating, but maybe you could all spend a bit less time talking and thinking about food?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15064632/
I have an impaired sense of smell, as do 20% of the adult population. Most foods are utterly bland or actively repulsive to me. Sweet tastes are mildly pleasant, but otherwise I do not enjoy eating, I just do it to avoid hunger. I maintain a BMI of 19, but only because I actively monitor my food intake to avoid becoming clinically underweight.
Cooking is a chore that I will perform in the most perfunctory way possible in order to keep myself alive, but it is also something I will avoid wherever possible. Any effort I might put into making a delicious meal is wasted on me, because I don't have the sensory apparatus to perceive deliciousness.
From my perspective, the world seems almost pathologically obsessed with food. People often struggle to understand my complete indifference to food ("surely there must be some foods you enjoy"), but I struggle to understand how vast numbers of people eat so much that they become disabled and die prematurely. I can only make sense of it through the lens of addiction, which would raise all sorts of questions about the way in which we think talk about food versus other addictive substances.
My experience is obviously atypical (although not as uncommon as you might imagine), but I can't help thinking that the rest of you would be better off if you took a slightly more functional and utilitarian approach to eating. Obviously you can't just all pretend that you don't enjoy eating, but maybe you could all spend a bit less time talking and thinking about food?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15064632/
I don't agree. I lived in Thailand where it's common to just buy a plastic bag of food from a street vendor. Most houses apparently don't even have full kitchens.
People in ancient Pompeii didn't either. They bought bread from bakers, or paid for time in public ovens, and bought premade food from pubs or other vendors. Preserved homes very clearly did not typically have the means to prepare food.
It's a statement kind of like insisting that everyone should know how to farm or do animal husbandry, when those were specialist jobs (sometimes serfs' jobs...) since time immemorial. Humans built cities millennia ago and lived in semi-specialized social groups before that.
The outmoded self-sufficiency obsession is very culturally American, due to its relatively recent status as a more or less agrarian colony.
It's a statement kind of like insisting that everyone should know how to farm or do animal husbandry, when those were specialist jobs (sometimes serfs' jobs...) since time immemorial. Humans built cities millennia ago and lived in semi-specialized social groups before that.
The outmoded self-sufficiency obsession is very culturally American, due to its relatively recent status as a more or less agrarian colony.
Yeah I loved that about Thailand, I’d eat small things all day from street vendors. Good stuff.
I would say paying a tenner to wash a bag of clothes is luxury pricing, it's far more expensive than sticking it in the washing machine. It wouldn't surprise me if it was the same factor more expensive as takeaway vs cooking, and cooking is more laborious.
I do agree that it's annoying cooking as a single person though. Batch cooking and freezing can help.
I do agree that it's annoying cooking as a single person though. Batch cooking and freezing can help.
I've heard of people finding a large family (through Craigslist or something) that's already making many servings for every meal, often days ahead, and paying them to make one more serving and freeze and deliver it on a weekly basis.
> I wish it was possible to buy decent home cooked food for a reasonable fee :(
I mean that’s pretty much what supermarkets sell right? Ready meals that can be heated, which are effectively cooked the same way as at the home but just on an industrial scale. Or pasta that’s pre-made and pre-filled and you just have to heat and add some sauce that’s already pre-made.
Im in the UK where we have services like Cook that are good quality meals you can heat up.
I mean that’s pretty much what supermarkets sell right? Ready meals that can be heated, which are effectively cooked the same way as at the home but just on an industrial scale. Or pasta that’s pre-made and pre-filled and you just have to heat and add some sauce that’s already pre-made.
Im in the UK where we have services like Cook that are good quality meals you can heat up.
There is still a trade off here. Typically pre-made at industrial scale is looking for 'cheats' they can use to increase transportability and shelf life of food before it's served. It is not common it means the quality of 'decent home cooked' food.
There are made at store foods like you're talking about, but quite often they are 2-3x the cost of the ingredients.
There are made at store foods like you're talking about, but quite often they are 2-3x the cost of the ingredients.
Shelf life can also be improved by freezing rather than other techniques (as is the case with Cook).
Those ready meals are full of salts to preserve them. And not very nutritional.
With the added bucket-load of sugar to ensure the taste meets the standard of those without any taste buds.
I like cooking, but I don't want to take care of the small details, so I just get a non-stick pan and cook what I like with it.
(Similarly, I like programming, but that doesn't mean I enjoy taking care of all the mallocs/free that a C program requires, I just use a language with a GC)
(Similarly, I like programming, but that doesn't mean I enjoy taking care of all the mallocs/free that a C program requires, I just use a language with a GC)
The utility isn’t what’s in question, it’s the safety. There’s enough questions around the safety of teflon for consumption… is it really worth risking your or your family’s health to avoid some annoying cleanup?
Lots of things about cooking are risky. If you ask one by one if that's really worth risking, it's tempting to say no every time, and then there's almost nothing left. It doesn't work to treat risk as a binary factor.
I think the Teflon question is different though. It is like lead in a sense, we know it is carcinogenic, just like we know lead is a neuro-poison. The only question is whether we are doing good enough job at preventing it from leaking into our bodies.
With lead, a lot of people thought so, but still they put it in our gasoline, in solder for our water pipes, etc. and a lot of people got some pretty bad neuro-developmental disorders as a result. I certainly hope we are not repeating the same story with teflon, though I, personally am not willing to risk my and my families bodies to it.
With lead, a lot of people thought so, but still they put it in our gasoline, in solder for our water pipes, etc. and a lot of people got some pretty bad neuro-developmental disorders as a result. I certainly hope we are not repeating the same story with teflon, though I, personally am not willing to risk my and my families bodies to it.
> we know it is carcinogenic
Do we? PFOA is "possibly carcinogenic" but they've stopped using it when making teflon.
Do we? PFOA is "possibly carcinogenic" but they've stopped using it when making teflon.
We do not know that PTFE is carcinogenic. Some of the products that can be used to make it are, but they should not be in the final product, if they are it's a manufacturing defect.
We also know that using more oil in cooking is bad, and who knows what results from the incomplete polymerization of oil and carbonized food. I'm at least as suspicious of it as I am of Teflon.
We also know that using more oil in cooking is bad, and who knows what results from the incomplete polymerization of oil and carbonized food. I'm at least as suspicious of it as I am of Teflon.
Hm. My cast-iron skillet I've used for 20 years doesn't stick. Ever.
If there's a little stuck-on stuff on the bottom after use (should have put a little wine in there, gotten that flavor back into the dish, oh well) then a Scotch-brite bad and 30 seconds fixes it.
If there's a little stuck-on stuff on the bottom after use (should have put a little wine in there, gotten that flavor back into the dish, oh well) then a Scotch-brite bad and 30 seconds fixes it.
> If there's a little stuck-on stuff on the bottom after use (should have put a little wine in there, gotten that flavor back into the dish, oh well) then a Scotch-brite bad and 30 seconds fixes it.
For people seriously care about cooking (perhaps you're one of them), this is non sticking.
For a lot of people this is the definition of sticking.
For people seriously care about cooking (perhaps you're one of them), this is non sticking.
For a lot of people this is the definition of sticking.
> doesn't stick. Ever.
> If there's a little stuck-on stuff
So it does stick?
> If there's a little stuck-on stuff
So it does stick?
Not so I should use exotic plastic coatings (Teflon) and expensive cleaners to avoid. A few seconds gentle washing.
There's way, way too much made over so-called 'non-stick' pans. Worst experience I even had with sticking? A non-stick pan.
There's way, way too much made over so-called 'non-stick' pans. Worst experience I even had with sticking? A non-stick pan.
The best frying pan I've ever owned is the cheapest-possible cast iron one I got when I moved out of my parents' house 30 years ago or so. Very rarely does anything stick and when it does I fill the pan half way with water, put it back on the stove, let it boil for a couple of minutes while I do something else and then wipe it clean.
I have parrots so I theoretically have a strict "no Teflon in my house" rule but with a Japanese wife I've had to grudgingly tolerate a Teflon-coated rice cooker.
I have parrots so I theoretically have a strict "no Teflon in my house" rule but with a Japanese wife I've had to grudgingly tolerate a Teflon-coated rice cooker.
I use non-stick pans so that I don't ever have to care about things like that.
"should have put a little wine in there" - well, I should not have to! I expect that after I sear some meat, there will be nothing that will require scrubbing the pan with a Scotch-brite pad and that I don't even have to check if there's any little stuck-on stuff.
I don't care if fixing this is easy, because I can live in a world where it isn't something that needs fixing in the first place - and apparently moving to a cast-iron skillet would make me have to fix them. Also, why would I want to spend time (and, more importantly, attention) on 'seasoning the pan'? I expect the tool to be functional with minimal maintenance, a good tool is one that reduces the amount of care and attention that needs to be done, and a tool that requires extra attention itself isn't worth it if there are alternatives that don't require that. It makes sense to spend an hour preparing or maintaining an expensive tool, but it doesn't make sense to do that for something like pan, where you can get a new functional one for less than an hour of pay.
"should have put a little wine in there" - well, I should not have to! I expect that after I sear some meat, there will be nothing that will require scrubbing the pan with a Scotch-brite pad and that I don't even have to check if there's any little stuck-on stuff.
I don't care if fixing this is easy, because I can live in a world where it isn't something that needs fixing in the first place - and apparently moving to a cast-iron skillet would make me have to fix them. Also, why would I want to spend time (and, more importantly, attention) on 'seasoning the pan'? I expect the tool to be functional with minimal maintenance, a good tool is one that reduces the amount of care and attention that needs to be done, and a tool that requires extra attention itself isn't worth it if there are alternatives that don't require that. It makes sense to spend an hour preparing or maintaining an expensive tool, but it doesn't make sense to do that for something like pan, where you can get a new functional one for less than an hour of pay.
Not a cook, are we? You put wine in there to get all the 'fond' back into the finished dish, so it tastes yards better. Not a burden or a duty; something good cooks know to do.
I never seasoned my pan. I never work to clean it, not any more than washing that non-stick on.
We've been sold a bill of goods, by the non-stick pan people, that there's some problem that needs solving. There isn't. The worst sticking problem I ever had, was with a non-stick pan. Threw it away, went back to iron.
I never seasoned my pan. I never work to clean it, not any more than washing that non-stick on.
We've been sold a bill of goods, by the non-stick pan people, that there's some problem that needs solving. There isn't. The worst sticking problem I ever had, was with a non-stick pan. Threw it away, went back to iron.
FYI scotch-brite pads are plastic and shed microplastics into your pan.
As a replacement, there are coconut fiber based pads that work better actually.
As a replacement, there are coconut fiber based pads that work better actually.
For cast iron, the best scrubbers are steel chainmail, IME.
Last forever, too.
Last forever, too.
I mean, you'd typically rinse it pretty thouroughly, I doubt a lot of micro anything remains. I'm not sure pan cleaning is a significant source of overall micro plastics emissions, though I'm open to it.
Yeah really hard to measure, but the thought of little bits of plastic melting back into the pan makes it worth the 5$ to "splurge" on a nicer scrubber that causes less anxiety haha.
My cast iron is 4 years old and every time I use scotch-brite on it, I have to spend hours stinking up my house with flaxseed oil to reseason the pan because scotch-brite makes little dots of shiny iron show up.
Don’t use flaxseed!
https://www.reddit.com/r/castiron/comments/b4pxaq/yay_kenji_...
https://www.reddit.com/r/castiron/comments/b4pxaq/yay_kenji_...
Good lord.
> You MUST use flaxseed oil to season your pan.
Then
> You MUST NOT use flaxseed oil to season your pan.
Just season the fucking pan with some cooking oil and be done with it.
I swear, the internet has made some of the simplest things into this relentless pursuit of perfection.
> You MUST use flaxseed oil to season your pan.
Then
> You MUST NOT use flaxseed oil to season your pan.
Just season the fucking pan with some cooking oil and be done with it.
I swear, the internet has made some of the simplest things into this relentless pursuit of perfection.
flaxseed has an atrociously low smoke point (225 F). You really shouldn't be using it for cooking whatsoever, let alone seasoning cast iron.
In general I agree with your sentiment though. Find something that works for you and go with it.
In general I agree with your sentiment though. Find something that works for you and go with it.
I don't mean for my salty comment to justify a not-ideal method. But for this topic, the proper use of the pan will generate a good seasoning as it is used.
That seems excessive to me. I use my cast iron every day, clean it off with steel wool, and just throw a little oil on there. No fancy prep, and it cleans up with less effort than 2 year old no longer non-stick pans
Put oil in the skillet next time you use it (every time you use it). No problem.
Hell, I scrub the hell out of it sometimes. Use oil the next time - no problem.
Hell, I scrub the hell out of it sometimes. Use oil the next time - no problem.
Nothing can beat Teflon on non-stickiness, for sure. But really, it’s actually fairly rare that it is a useful property when cooking: mostly for eggs. I mostly use stainless steel and have no problem of food sticking.
It asks for a bit of technique, but it’s just technique needed to make good food anyway (preheating pan, using fat, deglazing, managing heat)
I wouldn’t recommend cast iron either, it’s just too much faff. Stainless steel by default, Teflon for the few things that it’s useful for!
It asks for a bit of technique, but it’s just technique needed to make good food anyway (preheating pan, using fat, deglazing, managing heat)
I wouldn’t recommend cast iron either, it’s just too much faff. Stainless steel by default, Teflon for the few things that it’s useful for!
I usually use stainless and cast iron but with green chef meals I’m often tasked with searing chicken or fish in a pan and cleaning those types of pan after a cook like that gets mighty old. So I bought a Tramontina non stick exclusively for those cooks. I suspect it may last a bit longer since it’s a secondary pan I only use for those cases so it feels less wasteful as a purchase.
Can you sear with a non stick? Searing requires preheating the pan hot, which isn’t recommended with Teflon I think
Asking the biochemists here…
Is all searing associsted with carcinogens regardless of how it is done — eg toaster, grill in open flame, in a pan? I tend to really like the seared pieces on bread, steaks, and especially slices of Schwarma / Gyro / Doner
Is all searing associsted with carcinogens regardless of how it is done — eg toaster, grill in open flame, in a pan? I tend to really like the seared pieces on bread, steaks, and especially slices of Schwarma / Gyro / Doner
AFAIK almost all charred compounds contain some amount of carcinogens of some kind. The question is just whether it’s worth it to you.
You’re not really supposed to blast heat stainless without anything in it either. But you can certainly get it hot. Just as with nonstick. At least to Leidenfrost temps.
you can deglaze that on the stove. heat a very shallow layer of water in the pan, the stuck layer will soften and dissolve. push a roux spoon gently around the bottom and then simply pour it out.
beyond that, if you are using stainless, go ahead and clean it with steel wool. a bundle of small chain is a good equivalent for cast iron.
beyond that, if you are using stainless, go ahead and clean it with steel wool. a bundle of small chain is a good equivalent for cast iron.
White vinegar does a better job deglazing than hot water.
Yeah I usually deglaze my dishes at some point if I am cooking with my stainless.
Huh. Stainless steel is like the perfect cooking surface for searing chicken and salmon. Cleanup is super easy, ten seconds with a steel wool and/or, unique among pans, you can put it in the dishwasher with zero worries.
I mean you’re not wrong (well kinda wrong, it’s more like a few minutes). But with 2 kids, a full time job and myriad other hobbies, I couldn’t be arsed to spend another 10 seconds on dishes.
It seems some people have misconception that excessive oil and overcooking are causes for sticking, while opposite of that is how to completely eliminate sticking. When they can't accept the latter, they might resort to Teflon and steel wool sponges.
A tbsp or three of a good vinegar or wine + some scraping at the end of a nice sear adds so much flavor back into the dish, and cleanup is that much easier. When the pan is extra crusty just put a bit of warm water in it while the pan is still hot and let it sit till after the meal. Unless you are charring the absolute crap out of your food (in which case, practice your technique and heat management), everything is going to come off with a few seconds of hot water + soap + scrubbing.
Teflon is hot garbage. I wont even use it for eggs.
Teflon is hot garbage. I wont even use it for eggs.
I care about cooking. I have a bunch of pans I experimented with in my kitchen, including cast iron, carbon steel, stainless steel.
None are as non-stick as the non-stick ones. Sometimes I can cook eggs in them without it sticking, but the results are inconsistent and underwhelming. Of course, when the cooking fails and it sticks, I need to re-do the non-stick layer of oil.
I also need to use way more oil when cooking than when using non-stick. I care about this because I'm trying to cut and I'm calorie counting.
And my wife is unhappy whenever I pull out the "wierd" pans, since she can't use them and they're heavy as hell for her.
So, overall, the non-stick sees the most usage.
None are as non-stick as the non-stick ones. Sometimes I can cook eggs in them without it sticking, but the results are inconsistent and underwhelming. Of course, when the cooking fails and it sticks, I need to re-do the non-stick layer of oil.
I also need to use way more oil when cooking than when using non-stick. I care about this because I'm trying to cut and I'm calorie counting.
And my wife is unhappy whenever I pull out the "wierd" pans, since she can't use them and they're heavy as hell for her.
So, overall, the non-stick sees the most usage.
“An early use was in the Manhattan Project as a material to coat valves and seals in the pipes holding highly reactive uranium hexafluoride”
Considering the applications, I’ll pass :)
Considering the applications, I’ll pass :)
Why?
One of the first uses for wood was burning it for heat, creating toxic poisonous fumes.
I don’t have any problem using it as a material for my utensils, though.
One of the first uses for wood was burning it for heat, creating toxic poisonous fumes.
I don’t have any problem using it as a material for my utensils, though.
As one commenter posted. It is unreactive and it bioaccumulates in your body. Removing unwanted molecules from your body is done by means of chemical reaction. If a substance doesn’t react then what?
By your analogy, we should all be eating uranium because it produces clean nuclear energy. Yes?
By your analogy, we should all be eating uranium because it produces clean nuclear energy. Yes?
No. My analogy doesn't say what we should eat. It only says that in spite of something having an association with something bad for you, it might still be just fine for you.
Here's another example. "Potassium explodes on contact with water! I think I'll pass on potassium in my diet, thanks!" That would not be a good reaction. Note the logical difference between saying "that's a bad reaction" and saying "you should eat everything that explodes." You're implying that I'm saying the latter. I'm not. I'm saying the former.
Here's another example. "Potassium explodes on contact with water! I think I'll pass on potassium in my diet, thanks!" That would not be a good reaction. Note the logical difference between saying "that's a bad reaction" and saying "you should eat everything that explodes." You're implying that I'm saying the latter. I'm not. I'm saying the former.
Okay Mr Logic. My response was tongue in cheek but this detracts from the main point.
I hope you’re not living under the DuPont shitstorm umbrella as appealing as it may sound.
Check out the 3M/DuPont Missisipi teflon lawsuits as well as the story of Robert Bilott, and his nationwide class action lawsuit for anyone with detectable teflon in their blood:
https://www.taftlaw.com/news-events/news/taft-wins-class-cer...
https://theintercept.com/2018/10/06/dupont-pfas-chemicals-la...
More recently, https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-08/how-cance...
I hope you’re not living under the DuPont shitstorm umbrella as appealing as it may sound.
Check out the 3M/DuPont Missisipi teflon lawsuits as well as the story of Robert Bilott, and his nationwide class action lawsuit for anyone with detectable teflon in their blood:
https://www.taftlaw.com/news-events/news/taft-wins-class-cer...
https://theintercept.com/2018/10/06/dupont-pfas-chemicals-la...
More recently, https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-08/how-cance...
Just wait until you hear what stainless steal gets used for!
So, highly unreactive. Sounds like a great thing to use for cooking.
Cast iron wares are heavy.
I had a lovely fight with my wife many years ago, because she threw away my cast irons; in her words it was “dirty” and “sticky” and she replaced them with teflon.
Years later she is a convert—from small, personal pans to dutch ovens that heat retention makes a difference—but I’m called to move them around but she’ll ensure that it gets oiled and seasoned after every use.
We also have high quality multi-ply stainless steel pots and pans but lightweight or not those are used less frequently.
If you only want non-stick without the fuss and don’t care about the health implications, it’s hard to beat teflon.
I had a lovely fight with my wife many years ago, because she threw away my cast irons; in her words it was “dirty” and “sticky” and she replaced them with teflon.
Years later she is a convert—from small, personal pans to dutch ovens that heat retention makes a difference—but I’m called to move them around but she’ll ensure that it gets oiled and seasoned after every use.
We also have high quality multi-ply stainless steel pots and pans but lightweight or not those are used less frequently.
If you only want non-stick without the fuss and don’t care about the health implications, it’s hard to beat teflon.
I used to cook almost exclusively with cast iron but lately I bought a set of heavy carbon steel skillet, they are now my favorites. They have a very similar heat retention as CI but are a bit lighter and that make them a real charm to work with.
I received a granite pan recently and I can't recommend it enough.
It doesn't stick and contains no teflon or any other such material.
It doesn't stick and contains no teflon or any other such material.
I’m assuming this is one of those enamel/ceramic non-stick pans. I’ve used a number of these over the years. They’re great for “non-stick that isn’t teflon” (I have a bird, so that is useful to me), but they do degrade very fast if you’re not extremely careful, and even if you are careful they still usually only last a short while before becoming significantly less non-stick. I’d recommend saving them for eggs and other very sticky foods, and using cast iron or stainless or carbon steel for everything else.
I’ve never heard of an actual granite pan. You surely mean a metal pan coated with a combination of silicone-ish things and silica, and maybe the silica is derived from granite.
Sadly, it seems that some of these things still contain potentially nasty highly fluorinated compounds. Here’s a patent for such a thing:
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/6d/25/ca/9ff2bbd...
Hmm, the “FAS” additive in the outermost layer has a perfluorinated C6 chain. Whoops. I wonder whether this is better or worse than PTFE. At least intact PTFE ought to be harmless. PFHxA is not so wonderful:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorohexanoic_acid
edit: some brands of “ceramic” nonstick pans are quite explicit about being PFAS-free, and CA AB1200 really ought to help here.
Sadly, it seems that some of these things still contain potentially nasty highly fluorinated compounds. Here’s a patent for such a thing:
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/6d/25/ca/9ff2bbd...
Hmm, the “FAS” additive in the outermost layer has a perfluorinated C6 chain. Whoops. I wonder whether this is better or worse than PTFE. At least intact PTFE ought to be harmless. PFHxA is not so wonderful:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorohexanoic_acid
edit: some brands of “ceramic” nonstick pans are quite explicit about being PFAS-free, and CA AB1200 really ought to help here.
I thought those pans that are marketed as "granite" with a speckled pattern where just PTFE coated aluminium, is this something different?
I think “granite pans” (which aren’t) are basically enamel, like a Le Creuset
I have one of these "marble" pans.
https://www.amazon.com/Ceramic-Marble-Coated-Aluminium-KW/dp...
I bought it at an Asian kitchen store 8-9 years ago because I needed a pan, and it's still unbelievably nonstick. I have overheated it multiple times, but carefully avoided using metal utensils on it. I'm not sure if it's really made of marble but it certainly is durable.
https://www.amazon.com/Ceramic-Marble-Coated-Aluminium-KW/dp...
I bought it at an Asian kitchen store 8-9 years ago because I needed a pan, and it's still unbelievably nonstick. I have overheated it multiple times, but carefully avoided using metal utensils on it. I'm not sure if it's really made of marble but it certainly is durable.
It really depends on your kitchen, and the sort of cooking you do. There's definitely been a trend towards disposable kitchen equipment in the pro kitchens, no longer do you see chefs with carbon steel knives, but cheap stainless knives with plastic handles, plastic cutting boards etc. These are considered consumables, which I find weird, but that's what their world now looks like.
I personally use hard anodised aluminium pans for non-stick duties, and use le creuset pots for lots of stuff, and these last a long time if you take care of them. The non-stick stuff is typically eggs or reheating stuff like soup. I'd guess 10 years from the anodised stuff without much trouble, and more like 50 years for a le creuset (i've got a hand-me-down one from an aunt which was from the 70s).
I personally use hard anodised aluminium pans for non-stick duties, and use le creuset pots for lots of stuff, and these last a long time if you take care of them. The non-stick stuff is typically eggs or reheating stuff like soup. I'd guess 10 years from the anodised stuff without much trouble, and more like 50 years for a le creuset (i've got a hand-me-down one from an aunt which was from the 70s).
The point was to sell Teflon pans to you repeatedly.
Iron pans are heavy and work horribly on anything but gas, which is even worse for the lungs.
They work phenomenally well on induction stoves! I use a single-burner plug-in induction unit in my small apartment kitchen and it works so well cast iron pans and an iron dutch oven.
They work just fine. If anything, the high heat capacity makes the heating more even if your heat source is unstable.
Teflon allows pans to be made of aluminum, which makes fabrication easy. The coating also scratches easily, leading to more sales. There is no point for consumers but there are few reasons market as a whole erroneously incentivize Teflon pans.
I use steel or iron where possible but fish… it’s just impossible. I have some nice greenpans for that but those are also controversial.
Probably a good idea to keep any birds away from the kitchen when actively cooking regardless of the type of cookware you’re using. The main danger from Teflon cookware comes from overheating it but anything cooked to a sufficiently high temperature would produce potentially toxic fumes to a bird not to mention if they’re flighted the trouble the could get into with hot pans or boiling water, etc.
You can do quite a lot with All-Clad stainless cookware. Heat the empty pan for 120s then add oil and reduce heat as desired. From there any sticking will be truly minimal, and for any of that use a metal spatula and you'll be all set.
I like all clad for durability, and if you use copious oil or scale the pan as you cook, you usually meet minimal sticking substance, but it does require some cooking background to get there.
It also requires some $$. For most people who aren’t keen cooks, there’s much cheaper stainless steel alternatives that get the job done, a simple ikea pan is fine
Tramontina are really good value in stainless pans imo
agreed, but harder to find in Europe
Ha - I had a line cook show me to get a pan fuming hot, no oil, before throwing mushrooms in, the moisture from the mushrooms create a ledenfrost effect and you get as close as you can to having some browning on the mushrooms (while keeping a lot if moisture in). Can't burn em!
I'm unhappy that I've done this exclusively with t-fal non stick pans over the years. Going to get myself a nice 3 ply stainless pan today!
Edit0: If you try it, the mushrooms sound like sneakers squeaking in a gymnasium.
I'm unhappy that I've done this exclusively with t-fal non stick pans over the years. Going to get myself a nice 3 ply stainless pan today!
Edit0: If you try it, the mushrooms sound like sneakers squeaking in a gymnasium.
Another good method for getting mushrooms to brown and crisp without getting them oil-logged is to cook them in some water to break down their structure. The end of this video details the technique, although I usually use more than 1/4 cup of water. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XLPLCmwBLBY&pp=ygUOZGFuIG11c2h...
Very high heat + Teflon is the exact combination you want to avoid.
Carbon steel and cast iron are worthy choices as well
My main issue with non-stick cookware, aside from the temperature constraints which limit its culinary usage, and the physical constraints which limit implement usage, is the way it liberally absorbs modern dishwashing soaps, then imparts a nice soapy taste to the next thing cooked in it.
Some online anecdotes <everyone sits up and pays attention> suggest that such absorbed odors are oil soluble and will not 'wash out' easily, except by way of the next batch of hot oil - a speculation borne out by my experience.
Some online anecdotes <everyone sits up and pays attention> suggest that such absorbed odors are oil soluble and will not 'wash out' easily, except by way of the next batch of hot oil - a speculation borne out by my experience.
This really undersells the risk here. If you have birds and don’t want to watch them die in agony just put the PTFE stuff in the bin.
PTFE fumes are also not exactly healthy for us humans.
Extremely toxic - https://www.science.gov/topicpages/p/ptfe+fume+exposure.html....
It’s funny, if you are into 3d printing a huge safety thing is not heating your hot end above 250c if you have a bowden tube - made of PTFE.
Over 250C is the breakdown point, which seems like a stove would hit pretty easily.
It’s funny, if you are into 3d printing a huge safety thing is not heating your hot end above 250c if you have a bowden tube - made of PTFE.
Over 250C is the breakdown point, which seems like a stove would hit pretty easily.
That’s kinda half-right. The issue isn’t having a Bowden tube, it’s having teflon that extends into the hot part of the hotend. For example, a v6 lite can’t go above 250 regardless of whether it’s in a Bowden config or not, while a V6 can hit 350 with a Bowden tube.
Yes, recently swapped my hotend and discovered that the PTFE tube in my old hotend extended all the way into the heatbreak and started to disintegrate into brown-ish goo.
I was pretty glad that I run it in a spare room.
I was pretty glad that I run it in a spare room.
This. As in, don't do anything in places where you breathe that would kill a canary, even if you don't have a canary.
That's a clickbait title, the article implies that a lot of kitchen fumes are toxic to birds and that can include fumes released when a skillet is left on the stove with nothing in it. It could me that teflon is worse than everything else, but there is not enough information to reach this conclusion. Would a plastic handle melting and burning on the stove be better? Chili fumes of strengths that make humans cough and eyes water? I don't yet see evidence that if one gets rid of teflon, it's Ok to cook around birds without same precautions.
This article from Teflon.com is not clickbait, they’re just massively underselling the risk of fluorocarbons to birds. Burning a teflon pan will straight up kill any birds in your home. It’s not a minor irritant like onions, you can’t just crack a window to let the fumes out, if they’re exposed they’ll start having seizures within minutes and be dead before you could get them to a vet (not that there’s really anything that could be done).
Just as a general rule birds are delicate, there’s a lot given up to allow for flight. Teflon is somewhat risky for humans too but it’s not remotely on the same scale.
Just as a general rule birds are delicate, there’s a lot given up to allow for flight. Teflon is somewhat risky for humans too but it’s not remotely on the same scale.
Real title: Cooking and Bird Safety
Ceramic pans these days seem like a pretty great option - non stick and non toxic. Only trade off is lower heat.
I use ceramic mainly then switch to cast iron for high heat
I use ceramic mainly then switch to cast iron for high heat
My ceramic pans all died in 10yeara. just threw out my last one. stainless and iron some beeing 30 yo are still working fine (and the ceramic would get sticky with time anyway)
Ceramic that works with induction doesn't seem that common. Non-induction electric sucks (inefficient, slow response) and gas spews out indoor pollution.
Anyone try to physically polish cast iron? My Lodge pans are well seasoned but still have a rough surface area that can cause bits to catch.
Yes, I used a DA orbital sander (pneumatic) to remove all the rough surface from the inside base of a Lodge pan. This, of course, removed the seasoned finish. The new surface was harder to season (took several months to get a uniform surface with no spots that would wear off under scraping/abrasion), but it's very capable now. I prefer it to the rough stock surface.
Wear a respirator unless you want to taste rust every time you breathe for several days.
Wear a respirator unless you want to taste rust every time you breathe for several days.
Get a Carbon Steel pan instead.
These are similar metal composition to cast iron, where you can season them with oils, but are forged (ie pressed) into shape, rather than cast. So you get a smooth surface, which is easier for non-stick use and lighter weight.
Carbon steel are better for eggs, omelettes, etc, but cast iron are often better for steaks/meats, because they retain heat better. There are tons of videos on Youtube if you are curious.
These are similar metal composition to cast iron, where you can season them with oils, but are forged (ie pressed) into shape, rather than cast. So you get a smooth surface, which is easier for non-stick use and lighter weight.
Carbon steel are better for eggs, omelettes, etc, but cast iron are often better for steaks/meats, because they retain heat better. There are tons of videos on Youtube if you are curious.
I have done it. I picked a lodge cast iron off of a stoop once and it had started to rust. I used fine grit sandpaper in an electric sander and got a decent result. Compared to the other lodge pan that I bought new, the one I polished is smoother and nicer to use.
[edit]: I did not polish it nearly as much as the mirror finished ones in the link nearby. I only did the cooking surface, and probably worked on it for 15 minutes.
[edit]: I did not polish it nearly as much as the mirror finished ones in the link nearby. I only did the cooking surface, and probably worked on it for 15 minutes.
I would like to know as well.
A 12" Lodge skillet costs $30 [1].
A mirror-polished 12" Lodge skillet costs an eye-watering $250 [2].
Even if this is a special case, what is it about the polishing process that adds $100 or more to the base cost? I'd be interested to hear from anyone in the know.
----------------------------------------
[1] https://www.lodgecastiron.com/product/round-cast-iron-classi...
[2] https://www.summershinemetalpolishing.com/product-page/mirro...
A 12" Lodge skillet costs $30 [1].
A mirror-polished 12" Lodge skillet costs an eye-watering $250 [2].
Even if this is a special case, what is it about the polishing process that adds $100 or more to the base cost? I'd be interested to hear from anyone in the know.
----------------------------------------
[1] https://www.lodgecastiron.com/product/round-cast-iron-classi...
[2] https://www.summershinemetalpolishing.com/product-page/mirro...
Dont do this.
Get a carbon steel pan instead. Same material as wok's, and they will take a seasoning.
I like the BelleVie, because it hits the mark on cost/quality, but you have to be accepting of a slightly uneven seasoning, or strip them once a year and start over (spring cleaning project).
Get a carbon steel pan instead. Same material as wok's, and they will take a seasoning.
I like the BelleVie, because it hits the mark on cost/quality, but you have to be accepting of a slightly uneven seasoning, or strip them once a year and start over (spring cleaning project).
Carbon steel is a great choice for light cookware and general use (i.e., what you'd use a Teflon pan for), but cast iron beats it handily for e.g., searing or use over a fire. Cast takes longer to heat (and to develop even heat), but it has a high thermal mass (resists variation in heating) and is happy to dump that heat quickly into e.g., a steak.
It takes small flap/disk sanders, lots of flaps/disks, and lots of time. Just taking off the high spots takes 10-15 minutes. A mirror finish requires working through progressively finer polishing compounds and can be quite time consuming, particularly in the spots harder to reach with power/pneumatic tools (like the transition between the base of the pan and the walls).
Edit: Given the text on the site, it appears this is a single individual craftsman polishing those pans, which likely also contributes.
Edit: Given the text on the site, it appears this is a single individual craftsman polishing those pans, which likely also contributes.
seems the polishing is done by a second party. by the website's own text, they are made to order. 250 for something an individual probably spends an hour or two on is not that bad in terms of price.
Especially since you can just get a carbon steel pan for 50
Supply and demand?
Polishing likely isn't required, but there are cast iron pans out there with a milled surface that seem to be a good compromise. That said, food sticking is mostly due to proteins bonding to the surface, so I'm not sure how important surface roughness is. I also have a carbon steel pan which is quite smooth, and I've not been able to get a seasoning on it that is as good as my cast iron pan so the cast iron remains more non-stick.
I tried this. It was a huge pain in the ass, made a big mess, took a lot of time, and still isn’t perfect. It definitely has a better nonstick surface now, but while I’m usually inclined to be cheap and do things myself,
I might spring for a pre-polished one in the future.
Either deglaze with water and scrub with a wooden spoon or try hot water and a bamboo brush or add a bit salt and scrub it with a sponge.
Generally the more you use it the better it gets.
Generally the more you use it the better it gets.
The JWST folks contacted me about my mirror-finish cast iron. Eggs still stick.
I went through about a dozen different seasoning formulas from reddit. Still stick. Someone then insisted my #10 Lodge must be from the 40s when the iron had too much boron or whatever because of war shortages. Really.
Every conspiracy in modern times is a distraction effort from the only real one: seasoning doesn’t work.
I’m sure a few of them will show up here. They’re everywhere.
I went through about a dozen different seasoning formulas from reddit. Still stick. Someone then insisted my #10 Lodge must be from the 40s when the iron had too much boron or whatever because of war shortages. Really.
Every conspiracy in modern times is a distraction effort from the only real one: seasoning doesn’t work.
I’m sure a few of them will show up here. They’re everywhere.
Not really sure what half of what you said actually means, but you can get excellent results with a cheapo lodge, grapeseed seasoning and cooking with butter. I'm lazy as hell, and it typically lasts me many months of effectively non-stick cooking.
You can't cook acids with it, but I'm not sure where you've gotten the idea that seasoning doesn't work. Perhaps you haven't been able to make it work yet?
Vintage cast iron pans have a smoother surface
Some modern, e.g., Stargazer, pans also have a smoother surface, though with the requisite price bump due to the extra care and finishing needed post-casting.
Thrift store/"buried in the back yard" pans are still my preference.
Thrift store/"buried in the back yard" pans are still my preference.
I clean mine with steel wool, which does the same thing as polishing. Works like a charm
I recall reading about a thanksgiving meal and the off gassing from teflon killed 15 parrots throughout the house in about 15 minutes.
If you are of British or Irish ancestry you may want to get genetically tested before you switch to iron cookware. Hemochromatosis (iron overload disease) is a genetic disease that is common in that population. Everyone in my family has it and we have to be mindful. There are probably millions with the mutation that are unaware.
Just use ceramic pans instead, they're pretty affordable nowadays. Admittedly, they wear out just like Teflon pans but it does the same job. The biggest caveat is that you have to clean them well. I usually let some water boil on it and it gets off any of the gunk that makes food stick to it.
I have two small birds and to accommodate them we switched over to ceramic nonstick only. The Greenpan ones are fantastic if you keep metal out and don’t put them in the dishwasher, which i noticed accelerated the wear. I wish it could be repaired more easily but better than than eating or breathing a Teflon flake
Canary in the coal mine...
Its a tempting thought, but remember that chocolate and grapes are toxic to dogs and we don’t worry about their effect on humans.
PTFE fumes are pretty toxic to us too - https://www.science.gov/topicpages/p/ptfe+fume+exposure.html....
Came here to add that I've never looked back ever since being gifted two forged iron pans (thanks Birgit!). Because they had been in use for years (decades?) at that point already I could just start using them. I immediately became a big fan of these pans, if a bit incredulous, wondering how on Earth we've all come to use Teflon and other PFASes stuck to the heated things we prepare our food with when one of the oldest and most available materials known to mankind does such a great job.
At first I didn't listen and cleaned the pan with hot water and dish soap; don't do that. Just take a piece of suitable paper (I'm keeping a toilet paper roll around for that kitchen to avoid wasting the kitchen paper which is overkill here IMO) and get rid of the excess fat after use; after using butter, I warm the pan a bit first. It's just swipe swipe swipe, done and the paper goes to the compost. A very satisfactory state of affairs. Of course one can also re-use the fat or oil if deemed not too over-used; in that case just get out any bits the messy cook left in from the previous meal.
When you get a new pan then the first burn-in may seem intimidating but it's not rocket science; you're even allowed to let the oil smoke a bit nd if you don't believe me search for Adam Ragusea on YouTube who did a great video specifically on burn-in (of cast iron pans but no difference with forged ones AFAICT).
Hardly anything gets stuck in my pan, ever; even the sunny-side-up eggs just lift off. Before the iron pan I had a white ceramic one; that love lasted but a few months before the ceramic had one tiny dent and, worse, some micro-scratches and, presumably, many more nano-scratches that subtracted from its ability to repel stuff; it's been hanging for months on its hook, unused because why would I. It's not quite clear to me what caused the scratches because I was quite religious with only using a wooden spatula with this pan, although in some occasions I neglected that and sometimes the only thing that worked would be a thin metal lifter (orwhachamaycallit); I am not at all careful in that regard with the iron pan and it just bears with me, thank you pan.
To the people out there with slight eating <del>disorders</del> challenges and those inexperienced in cooking slash unwilling to cook—getting the right, mostly fairly cheap tools is an essential step because it lowers the entry fee to getting shit done. Even if it's just another sunny-side-up, well if it always sticks to the pan and / or if your pan forbids you to use that very capable flat-metal lifter, then it's just that much more frustrating each and every time.
At first I didn't listen and cleaned the pan with hot water and dish soap; don't do that. Just take a piece of suitable paper (I'm keeping a toilet paper roll around for that kitchen to avoid wasting the kitchen paper which is overkill here IMO) and get rid of the excess fat after use; after using butter, I warm the pan a bit first. It's just swipe swipe swipe, done and the paper goes to the compost. A very satisfactory state of affairs. Of course one can also re-use the fat or oil if deemed not too over-used; in that case just get out any bits the messy cook left in from the previous meal.
When you get a new pan then the first burn-in may seem intimidating but it's not rocket science; you're even allowed to let the oil smoke a bit nd if you don't believe me search for Adam Ragusea on YouTube who did a great video specifically on burn-in (of cast iron pans but no difference with forged ones AFAICT).
Hardly anything gets stuck in my pan, ever; even the sunny-side-up eggs just lift off. Before the iron pan I had a white ceramic one; that love lasted but a few months before the ceramic had one tiny dent and, worse, some micro-scratches and, presumably, many more nano-scratches that subtracted from its ability to repel stuff; it's been hanging for months on its hook, unused because why would I. It's not quite clear to me what caused the scratches because I was quite religious with only using a wooden spatula with this pan, although in some occasions I neglected that and sometimes the only thing that worked would be a thin metal lifter (orwhachamaycallit); I am not at all careful in that regard with the iron pan and it just bears with me, thank you pan.
To the people out there with slight eating <del>disorders</del> challenges and those inexperienced in cooking slash unwilling to cook—getting the right, mostly fairly cheap tools is an essential step because it lowers the entry fee to getting shit done. Even if it's just another sunny-side-up, well if it always sticks to the pan and / or if your pan forbids you to use that very capable flat-metal lifter, then it's just that much more frustrating each and every time.
So is butter
https://doi.org/10.1080/0002889738506828
https://doi.org/10.1080/0002889738506828
I wonder how, it's not supposed to react with anything? Clearly that's not actually true. And if so, what else we know about it isn't?
Teflon heated above around 300C releases toxic gases as it breaks down. That is what this article is referring to.
Toxic only to birds of course. Because we can trust chemicals companies when they tell us to relax :)
They're toxic to humans as well, just far less. Under no circumstance should you allow PTFE pan to exceed 250C, as the manufacturer normally tells you to.
> Unattended cookware that overheats—or cookware that’s heated up without anything added to the pan—can release fumes that are toxic to birds
So, it's not Teflon. It's burning your pan
(I wouldn't recommended breathing that in neither. And I would definitely not recommend you put your pan in the fire without any thermal load)
So, it's not Teflon. It's burning your pan
(I wouldn't recommended breathing that in neither. And I would definitely not recommend you put your pan in the fire without any thermal load)
No, its teflon burning in your pan…
The list of things that become toxic once you burn them is a very long one
Fortunately your stove isn't capable of burning steel. Preheating the empty pan is a basic technique in more than one culinary tradition.
Your stove is capable of burning your oil and your food, which will make carcinogens.
Preheating an empty pan is just not something you should do if you're cooking with Teflon. You'll want to at least put some oil or something in there, or have a temperature control stove. It's a tradition that doesn't apply.
Preheating an empty pan is just not something you should do if you're cooking with Teflon. You'll want to at least put some oil or something in there, or have a temperature control stove. It's a tradition that doesn't apply.
You may have missed who I was replying to in the thread. The toplevel comment quotes Teflon's website talking about "cookware" in a generic sense, like heating up a pan with nothing in it is universally bad. That's bullshit. Obviously Teflon doesn't want to directly admit that it is specifically Teflon that, when heated, releases gases that will kill your birds dead. This happens at temperatures that would be no problem at all for stainless or carbon steel. That was my point. It's not the "overheating cookware" that's the problem, corporate weasel wording aside, it's specifically the Teflon that is the problem. I don't own or use any non-stick cookware.
Not any of the other common materials for pans. Steel, cast iron, ceramic, none of these become toxic even at 500 C
"Still" toxic? Like you expected birds to evolve out of it or something?
Just to birds, of course. We have nothing to worry about until 15 years from now that we learn burning teflon causes some poorly understood conditions the maker knew about all along. Ban it already.
https://theintercept.com/series/the-teflon-toxin/
https://theintercept.com/series/the-teflon-toxin/
What could be a better alternative to non-stick pans?
I don't understand the question. What would be a better alternative to poisonous cookware?
It's not clear how convenience is even part of the equation. It's not their proper use, it's the manufacturing of teflon, the disposal of used cookware and use of it when scratched. What's better than non-stick cookware? Literally anything. Teflon is a scourge.
It's not clear how convenience is even part of the equation. It's not their proper use, it's the manufacturing of teflon, the disposal of used cookware and use of it when scratched. What's better than non-stick cookware? Literally anything. Teflon is a scourge.
Learning to cook properly and cast iron.
plate steel or iron?
non-stick is suchs a weird concept considering you don't require it for nearly any dish, and non-stick pans get damaged very, very easily by utensils.
non-stick is suchs a weird concept considering you don't require it for nearly any dish, and non-stick pans get damaged very, very easily by utensils.
Cast iron perhaps? With an enamel coating?
Cast iron is better without enamel and regular seasoning IMHO.
We’ve completely transitioned to stainless steel and regular cast iron for all cooking.
We’ve completely transitioned to stainless steel and regular cast iron for all cooking.
Hemochromatosis is the largest genetic issue in the American population affecting millions. Iron cookware can be toxic to that population.
Regular pans?
Anodized Aluminum
At what temperature does Teflon begin to break down?
Do we know it's 100% stable below such a temperature? It doesn't really matter as its production alone has been an environmental catastrophe.
Alternatives (1) Carbon steel (2) Stainless Steel (3) Cast Iron
I think all three work on induction stoves as well.
I think all three work on induction stoves as well.
I've sometimes wondered how they get the non-stick Teflon to stick to the metal pan base?
Everyone here be talking about cookware where increasingly teflon is getting produced via gore-tex and going into higher end products for companies like Vans, Nike and Adidas as a waterproof feature.
Increasingly? It's been there for decades.
This "article" is specifically about overheating teflon-coated cookware, and nothing else. (Sure hope your shoes are not on fire!)
This "article" is specifically about overheating teflon-coated cookware, and nothing else. (Sure hope your shoes are not on fire!)
[deleted]
I do keep a non stick around just for eggs though, hard to beat.