Ask HN: Conflicted about my FAANG work place
41 comments
Not a FAANG person, but have done a start up. I think a good rule of doing a start up is “ only do it if you must do it” what is meant by that is your passion for the problem you are trying to solve needs to be obsession level. That is generally needed to invest the level of work that success requires and sustain the level of pain required to survive. Wanting to get rich can be a strong motive for people but I think it would need to be coupled with a burning need to address the problem for a start up to have much of a chance.
Since throwaway I can be totally transparent- I am obsessed with financial independence and providing for my family. Everything else is a means to it. I don’t really care for a “career” as society defines it. I also believe that you can (and should) do well while doing good. As such I agree. That building something the world needs is super critical but am not sure if I need to be as obsessed with the problem and solution. I am rather obsessed with the over arching idea of “build something people want”. Also with startups there is a high chance one may have to shift/pivot from the problem they started with.
Part of my challenge, (because of my obsession with build something people want) with jumping into my own startup is don’t have an “idea” or problem and how to go exploring it. So I feel I don’t have anything that people want. Since you have done a startup can you share anything that helped you through the ideating phase to pick a direction to start with? Any books or resources would also be great that expand on the ideating phase. If I had an understanding of how to go through that journey I would do that in my spare time and that would also allow me to jump into the idea more confidently when the time came.
Part of my challenge, (because of my obsession with build something people want) with jumping into my own startup is don’t have an “idea” or problem and how to go exploring it. So I feel I don’t have anything that people want. Since you have done a startup can you share anything that helped you through the ideating phase to pick a direction to start with? Any books or resources would also be great that expand on the ideating phase. If I had an understanding of how to go through that journey I would do that in my spare time and that would also allow me to jump into the idea more confidently when the time came.
You will have more financial independence at faang, most starts up fail.
It sounds like you're pretty secure in your job but generally unfulfilled so there's no reason you can't start a business on the side. That way you can find fulfillment while providing for your family and still moving solidly towards financial independence.
With regards to financial independence, I recommend reading the likes of Mr. Money Mustache. He was able to achieve it in his 30's making less than you do.
With regards to financial independence, I recommend reading the likes of Mr. Money Mustache. He was able to achieve it in his 30's making less than you do.
I think an important question here is: why do you think that joining/founding a startup will be any different? If you were actively trying to take initiative at your current position and being rebuffed (which certainly can happen in FAANG and other large companies) I could understand why you'd feel that way, but it sounds like you haven't tried, and I'm skeptical that a change of jobs will suddenly inspire you to be more ambitious.
Good point about initiative, should have listed in the facts section: shared a few proposals on how to improve things in my org and it didn’t go anywhere. Two reasons 1) don’t have funding atm 2) reorg where bought in leader left. The reality is my org is not in a growth mode. HC is 0 for this year and next most probably
Fair enough, the fact that you've been trying here and there suggests that it's possible things would be better at a startup. That's a tough decision to make, I certainly wouldn't feel confident telling you one way or the other is the "right" choice. But I would suggest a few other possibilities that you may not have considered yet:
- If your current role is in a non-growth area and you're a good performer, maybe see what your options are in terms of transferring to a team that better matches what you're looking for?
- You've mentioned side projects in the context of financial independence; have you considered side projects or hobbies as a way of finding meaning that you're lacking at work?
- If you haven't already, consider seriously discussing career growth with your manager -- any decent manager should be interested in helping you find opportunities.
Also keep in mind differences in work-life balance.
- If your current role is in a non-growth area and you're a good performer, maybe see what your options are in terms of transferring to a team that better matches what you're looking for?
- You've mentioned side projects in the context of financial independence; have you considered side projects or hobbies as a way of finding meaning that you're lacking at work?
- If you haven't already, consider seriously discussing career growth with your manager -- any decent manager should be interested in helping you find opportunities.
Also keep in mind differences in work-life balance.
Not from a FANG background but was in a high paying senior role before taking the plunge to start a startup ~6 years ago. Also sole earner. I made the decision to do it as I genuinely loved the problem space, building things and had enough savings to take a chance on building something big. I also am less risk adverse than average (and perhaps what is sensible).
I think if your goal is financial independence at this stage, founding a startup is a poor strategy. Perhaps lowing your cost of living somehow and looking at traditional investments to bulk up savings would be a better option. To combat the boredom you could look for a high paid job in a more interesting large company. Or, experiment with side projects and see how you go. Obviously your chances of success are lower when you don't go "all-in", but it gives you a taste of entrepreneurship.
I think if your goal is financial independence at this stage, founding a startup is a poor strategy. Perhaps lowing your cost of living somehow and looking at traditional investments to bulk up savings would be a better option. To combat the boredom you could look for a high paid job in a more interesting large company. Or, experiment with side projects and see how you go. Obviously your chances of success are lower when you don't go "all-in", but it gives you a taste of entrepreneurship.
Yup soloprenuer is what I also think of might be a decent middle ground, but then what you said is what makes it less desirable - low chance of success because of not being all in. Kinda like “he who chases two hares catches none” - some Russian author if I remember correctly
How did your risk turn out for you? What would you do differently if you were to do it again?
How did your risk turn out for you? What would you do differently if you were to do it again?
With that sort of income you should not have this level of anxiety about your options, you should have plenty in the bank to play startup with, fail, and reenter the traditional job market having learned your lesson: with padding to spare.
Id start by seriously reconsidering your finances. If you make all the money, you call all the shots, your three dependents all on a free ride need to respect that. Furthermore- “family of 4 that I support with my income alone” - barring the case that you have an infant, your partner should be pulling more weight, too. Single income households are not feasible in California without major compromise: and that major compromise is currently occurring at your expense
Id start by seriously reconsidering your finances. If you make all the money, you call all the shots, your three dependents all on a free ride need to respect that. Furthermore- “family of 4 that I support with my income alone” - barring the case that you have an infant, your partner should be pulling more weight, too. Single income households are not feasible in California without major compromise: and that major compromise is currently occurring at your expense
The family respects it a lot. We don’t have any extravagant expenses. We try to live only on salary and RSUs go untouched. The partner would work in a heartbeat but we’d take an absolute nose dive in quality of life as we’d be running from work duties to house duties to kid duties to work duties (based on prior personal experience) While I personally would be willing to suffer such a life I don’t thinks it fair for kids to get the tiered, grumpy and curt parents. We brought them into this world and we owe them better if we can (if my backs against the wall sure all of that can go out of the window )
We have one life and there is something to be said about raising kids in a home environment that is “healthy” especially when we brought them into this world. I feel especially strongly about this as my kids are still little (< 10 years)
Totally understand that this may not be a point of view shared across the masses - specially here in USA where the general attitude is everybody is doing it so you shouldnt crib about it. For us our kids are a big priority and not sacrifing the evnromment they are raised in is a core value. Fyi I don’t mean environment as physically the size of house we live in etc it’s the softer thing - the home atmosphere. I live in a small apartment and we are cool with it. More importantly we live in a happy home.
We have one life and there is something to be said about raising kids in a home environment that is “healthy” especially when we brought them into this world. I feel especially strongly about this as my kids are still little (< 10 years)
Totally understand that this may not be a point of view shared across the masses - specially here in USA where the general attitude is everybody is doing it so you shouldnt crib about it. For us our kids are a big priority and not sacrifing the evnromment they are raised in is a core value. Fyi I don’t mean environment as physically the size of house we live in etc it’s the softer thing - the home atmosphere. I live in a small apartment and we are cool with it. More importantly we live in a happy home.
Wow, you are a genuinely good human being. And I am happy for your kids that they have parents like you and your partner.
$350k a year is an absolutely massive amount, even assuming you have nothing (no savings/equity) at the moment, you could achieve financial indepdenence within just a couple of years, if you make some lifestyle adjustments.
For starters, check out this blog: https://earlyretirementextreme.com/.
It's written by a guy who achieved FI within just 5 years of making $80k a year. Granted, he didn't have kids, but you're making over 4x as much as he was.
For starters, check out this blog: https://earlyretirementextreme.com/.
It's written by a guy who achieved FI within just 5 years of making $80k a year. Granted, he didn't have kids, but you're making over 4x as much as he was.
I'm not Faang but I am OG SV and the problem with a lot of these large, very flat companies is that once you reach a certain level you are stuck and it really takes an ask of god to get a promotion. That said we're paid well and the job is a place where you can stay for a decade or two if you want. As far as doing your own thing, have you talked to your partner about this? When I was young and trying to make a lot of money quickly my now wife was happy to work a steady job and provide the health insurance while I chased startup after startup. In the event that one of those startup took an unexpected crash she could cover the bills. If I was the sole source of income I likely would have taken a much safer route, taking care of my family is my priority, making a killing is nice but not required. If I were you I'd stay at your well paying job and see what you can do during your free time, when you get to the point where you can no longer do both then quit but until then you'll have an income -I had a business once where for the first three years we didn't break even so I'd be the boss during the day and then go baby sit a data center for the second shift, it was how my employees got paid, as a business owner you do what you have to do to keep the doors open.
Life is too short to do something you don't like. Start your own thing on the side for a while and if it looks promising (hits a $ threshold) put in your notice at work.
It's exactly what I did and I have never looked back (going on 7 years now).
It's exactly what I did and I have never looked back (going on 7 years now).
Yeah I agree, try ideas on the side without quitting your high-paying job. If something starts getting traction, then you have a decision to make.
If you don't have the motivation to work an extra hour or two after your day job, you won't have the motivation to make a startup work.
If you don't have the motivation to work an extra hour or two after your day job, you won't have the motivation to make a startup work.
> Start your own thing on the side
Finding that "thing" always seems like a daunting task.
Finding that "thing" always seems like a daunting task.
Hmm, if you have been working for 20 years and you're at FAANG making $350k/yr, how come you aren't close to financial independence? Sure, the bay area is expensive, but not that expensive. Have you joined your current company only very recently?
IMHO, financial independence does not mean "Having a fuck-you money to do whatever I want, whenever I do." It's more about managing your own expectation.
IMHO, financial independence does not mean "Having a fuck-you money to do whatever I want, whenever I do." It's more about managing your own expectation.
> Have you joined your current company only very recently
Yes. ~4.5 years. Prior was small companies.
> ~FU Money
In the words of JL Collins (youtube him for fu money) ,to me , it’s about operating from a place where you have options to say no to things that does not interest you. I would still work but not for “the man” and deal with the politics and be on the receiving end of task given by people who are above me simply trying to further their agenda and/or have no idea the real need of the organization/team/customer etc
Yes. ~4.5 years. Prior was small companies.
> ~FU Money
In the words of JL Collins (youtube him for fu money) ,to me , it’s about operating from a place where you have options to say no to things that does not interest you. I would still work but not for “the man” and deal with the politics and be on the receiving end of task given by people who are above me simply trying to further their agenda and/or have no idea the real need of the organization/team/customer etc
A lot of my team switched product areas when they needed to spice things up. They had a wide range of years on my team, from 2 to 10 years, and AFAIK there was no stigma attached to it. Have you considered that? If you are an IC, they might have some small project in mind for you to test the waters that it's a good fit. Maybe your manager is giving you the run around because there is just not much growth available in your area. Generally managers _want_ to promote because it makes them more important.
Do you have meetings with your skip manager? It sounds like your manager is not going to bat for you. I have had to drive my own promotions at various times in my career. I am not interested in leadership though, and that's a pretty different skill set. If that's of interest, you may need to actually cut things that don't better demonstrate that skill as best you can.
Do you have a FIRE number? I won't be leaving this cushy gig until I hit my number, but I do have a number. It has helped me time box my working career. I don't really need to be above-and-beyond satisfied with my job because that's not why I am working. I do get that being interested in the work helps the time pass, but IMO that's a double edged sword. People that care too much tend to get sucked into more responsibilities, which in turn can cause a brittle team dynamic with too much landing on one person. Of course experience and personalities vary.
For me, I would easily get obsessive if I were to start my own company and it would not be in a healthy way. I have also had too many friends try the startup route and really paid the price in a stagnated career. With a clear path to FIRE it's just not worth the risk IMO. I have family and plenty of hobbies to enjoy my time until then.
Good luck!
Do you have meetings with your skip manager? It sounds like your manager is not going to bat for you. I have had to drive my own promotions at various times in my career. I am not interested in leadership though, and that's a pretty different skill set. If that's of interest, you may need to actually cut things that don't better demonstrate that skill as best you can.
Do you have a FIRE number? I won't be leaving this cushy gig until I hit my number, but I do have a number. It has helped me time box my working career. I don't really need to be above-and-beyond satisfied with my job because that's not why I am working. I do get that being interested in the work helps the time pass, but IMO that's a double edged sword. People that care too much tend to get sucked into more responsibilities, which in turn can cause a brittle team dynamic with too much landing on one person. Of course experience and personalities vary.
For me, I would easily get obsessive if I were to start my own company and it would not be in a healthy way. I have also had too many friends try the startup route and really paid the price in a stagnated career. With a clear path to FIRE it's just not worth the risk IMO. I have family and plenty of hobbies to enjoy my time until then.
Good luck!
I am partially in similar situation, maybe the hard questions for you to decide are what if even you get promoted will you enjoy your day to day work? If the money is good to pay the bills and as you said family is priority then you should continue for more to accumulate savings. I am sure there are many people who work very hard and don't even reach to the figures/lifestyle you have, so take day job as your income generation and start using free time to explore if you do have passion for something which can lead to financial independence.
Most of the successful people had some passion/skills which they could monetize but if you start looking for options to just earn money then eventually you would still land in same situation where you don't enjoy what you do but it pays the bills.
Most of the successful people had some passion/skills which they could monetize but if you start looking for options to just earn money then eventually you would still land in same situation where you don't enjoy what you do but it pays the bills.
You could get your MBA. It would help with getting promoted, and with operating a startup.
There’s some science behind leadership. It’s not an ability you need to be born with, and it doesn’t matter if you’re introverted or extroverted.
Jumping into a startup is taking a big chance. I did it and spent everything I had. You could try a side project, and if it gets some traction, look for investors. Then think about quitting your FAANG job.
If you’re looking for some more meaningful work, see if your company has 20% time. Then you can work on something because you like it, not because you have to.
There’s some science behind leadership. It’s not an ability you need to be born with, and it doesn’t matter if you’re introverted or extroverted.
Jumping into a startup is taking a big chance. I did it and spent everything I had. You could try a side project, and if it gets some traction, look for investors. Then think about quitting your FAANG job.
If you’re looking for some more meaningful work, see if your company has 20% time. Then you can work on something because you like it, not because you have to.
Not quite like your situation, left a comfortable office job to start my own..
Both can be boring. Solo can be boring when the thrill wears off and becomes a grind.
Both can be boring. Solo can be boring when the thrill wears off and becomes a grind.
I’m in a similar position, albeit no dependents.
I don’t see myself getting promoted to leadership because software is generally extremely uninteresting to me. My goal is to just work and save as much as I can for as long as I can until I can retire (relatively young) or work on side projects and hopefully eventually monetize.
Don’t know if this helps, but you definitely aren’t the only person feeling this way.
I don’t see myself getting promoted to leadership because software is generally extremely uninteresting to me. My goal is to just work and save as much as I can for as long as I can until I can retire (relatively young) or work on side projects and hopefully eventually monetize.
Don’t know if this helps, but you definitely aren’t the only person feeling this way.
I don't think the choice is that stark. Working at a small startup can be great; you can get a real salary (not 350k, but you can clear 200, let's say, given your experience), and you won't have to deal with a lot of the negatives that can come with working at a big company.
How should I think about the opportunity cost of leaving? Working where I work as been the biggest contributor to my net worth. I don’t come from means. Nobody has ever seen money like this in my family so I feel I would be naive or stupid to give it up. Thoughts ?
Well, what do you think your ability would be to go back to a comparable company after a few years of working at a smaller one?
If I were to think in a measured manner it would be very hard but not impossible. Uncertainty would be around the duration it would take to get in. Could be months to years given how these things work and it’s circumstantial nature.
How much freedom do you have at work? Is there something that stops you from learning/exploring new things besides boredom?
Also, regarding creating your own startup, do you have any VC friends? How would you like to get funding for it? Network is important.
Also, regarding creating your own startup, do you have any VC friends? How would you like to get funding for it? Network is important.
> However I don’t look forward to what do at work
Why not?
>I know rsijg up at my current job to a Leadership role would get me to financial independence but I just don’t see the path.
Why don't you see a path?
How long can you support your family without a job?
Why not?
>I know rsijg up at my current job to a Leadership role would get me to financial independence but I just don’t see the path.
Why don't you see a path?
How long can you support your family without a job?
> Why not?
It’s a good question and I don’t know the answer. I wish I knew the answer as I know it would help me. I show up and I just am not motivated as I feel like what’s the point. There is no reward (for me) or appreciation or any real benefit to what I provide (as I see leadership factions questioning my project and general politics of furthering their own agenda for their own growth. I am all for doing the work but if I know there is no growth for me here what’s the point.
> Why don’t you see a path
So many reorgs and changes of directions every few months. I know my (mid level) manager is a good person but he has no choice but the feed be BS that you will be promoted in a year or so and hang in there. I would do the same if I were in his shoes cos I know he has no control of any of this.
> how long can I support my family. At least a year (depleting all my cash savings)
I wonder a lot if am I an anomaly or there are a lot of people in FANGs just like this.
It’s a good question and I don’t know the answer. I wish I knew the answer as I know it would help me. I show up and I just am not motivated as I feel like what’s the point. There is no reward (for me) or appreciation or any real benefit to what I provide (as I see leadership factions questioning my project and general politics of furthering their own agenda for their own growth. I am all for doing the work but if I know there is no growth for me here what’s the point.
> Why don’t you see a path
So many reorgs and changes of directions every few months. I know my (mid level) manager is a good person but he has no choice but the feed be BS that you will be promoted in a year or so and hang in there. I would do the same if I were in his shoes cos I know he has no control of any of this.
> how long can I support my family. At least a year (depleting all my cash savings)
I wonder a lot if am I an anomaly or there are a lot of people in FANGs just like this.
I've been in similar work environments and a change of teams completely changed how I felt about things. Got promoted after that too. Maybe there is an internal transfer program you can explore.
At the end of the day you are supporting a family so that in itself is the point of what you're doing. I think most ppl that have ever lived had to do stuff they didnt quite enjoy every day and can relate, but probably not most ppl in FAANG.
Maybe also seek some kind of therapy, just talking to a professional could help.
The startup / work for yourself thing is risky and may end up more stressful, but at least you do have cushion to try it. But I don't think that's the answer.. there's something deeper.
At the end of the day you are supporting a family so that in itself is the point of what you're doing. I think most ppl that have ever lived had to do stuff they didnt quite enjoy every day and can relate, but probably not most ppl in FAANG.
Maybe also seek some kind of therapy, just talking to a professional could help.
The startup / work for yourself thing is risky and may end up more stressful, but at least you do have cushion to try it. But I don't think that's the answer.. there's something deeper.
Thanks for sharing. Any thoughts on what kind of therapy helps here. I have no idea where to start. Psychological or Psychiatric or something else?
(not the parent, but) You might want to try CBT / ACT, but to be frank, any therapy would help (as long as the therapist is good)
You don’t need to quit your job to start a company.
Assuming you make $0 in income, what kind of runway do you have?
Little over a year (but that would deplete my cash savings. )
A key question is: why so little runway with such a large compensation? Even in the Bay Area that’s a bit odd.
I also am obsessed about financial independence, in the Bay Area, with comparable years of experience, started from 0, but circumstances are very different from yours (with a partner but no kids). I currently have 100 years of living expenses saved up, by a combination of frugality, aggressive job hopping to find the highest bidder, and diligent investing. For me there was never anything else than financial independence.
Is it possible that you are really not optimizing for financial freedom, and that’s not as important of a goal for you compared to providing a really good lifestyle for your family, which you clearly are?
You don’t need to answer me, but please ask yourself this question.
I also am obsessed about financial independence, in the Bay Area, with comparable years of experience, started from 0, but circumstances are very different from yours (with a partner but no kids). I currently have 100 years of living expenses saved up, by a combination of frugality, aggressive job hopping to find the highest bidder, and diligent investing. For me there was never anything else than financial independence.
Is it possible that you are really not optimizing for financial freedom, and that’s not as important of a goal for you compared to providing a really good lifestyle for your family, which you clearly are?
You don’t need to answer me, but please ask yourself this question.
Just curious, with so much runway do you still work? What motivates you?
I live fairly frugally compared to other people in the Bay Area whose actual yearly expenses might be $150k+ (did I say financial independence is my obsession? :-)), so I don’t mind accumulating more, it will give me more flexibility.
But I am fairly burned out so it’s likely I will permanently quit within the next couple years or so. In a weird way, I would welcome a layoff as forcing function to move on from corporate.
But I am fairly burned out so it’s likely I will permanently quit within the next couple years or so. In a weird way, I would welcome a layoff as forcing function to move on from corporate.
I know I am in an extremely privileged position but nevertheless I need help.
Facts: I work at “the” FAANG company as a Software Engineer. I make about ~350k per year living in the Bay Area. I am close to 20 years into my career and have never gotten promoted or risen through a corporate ladder for various reasons. We are a family of 4 that I support on my income alone.
Thoughts: I am reasonably “smart”. I can do what I need to do at my job. Typically get EE ratings for performance at my current job. However I don’t look forward to what do at work. I do my work because it’s pays the bills and I know that so many people would metaphorically speaking kill to have what I have. I feel guilty about complaining. I am not sure what’s the best approach for me me is to move forward if my goal is financial independence. I know rsijg up at my current job to a Leadership role would get me to financial independence but I just don’t see the path. My company is extremely large and I am a cog in the wheel. I have always thought about being my own boss but never have actually done it. I would like to create my own startup but I also realize that pursuing that means quitting my well paying job to take a MASSIVE chance. While I would have no problems do that if it were just me I have 3 people that depend on me and it’s not like if I create a startup I can earn a comparable salary in the early days. Logically speaking I should keep my job and try to do something on the side that gets me to financial independence doing something that actually interests me or make my peace and try an rise up where I am. But I also know you can’t rise up if you are bored at work.
I want to hear from people who are or have been in a similar boat to understand how you have thought through this.