Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features(electrek.co)
electrek.co
Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features
https://electrek.co/2023/08/03/hackers-manage-unlock-tesla-software-locked-features/
741 comments
There's a lot of missing the point in these threads about software locks.
Building a car in a uniform way for economy of scale savings, fine.
Having a software unlock for hardware you already have (but didn't pay for in the price). Fine.
Using software to rent-seek on one time costs like heated seats. Not fine. Less fine too if the seat subscription can't carry to secondary market. This can he used to cripple secondary markets: sorry, the BMW account you have isn't linked to this VIN. Heated seats and android auto are disabled.
Let's stop the third.
Building a car in a uniform way for economy of scale savings, fine.
Having a software unlock for hardware you already have (but didn't pay for in the price). Fine.
Using software to rent-seek on one time costs like heated seats. Not fine. Less fine too if the seat subscription can't carry to secondary market. This can he used to cripple secondary markets: sorry, the BMW account you have isn't linked to this VIN. Heated seats and android auto are disabled.
Let's stop the third.
> Software-locked features that need to be activated by the owner paying or subscribing to a service are becoming increasingly popular in the auto industry.
Sorry, WHAT? People should absolutely boycott companies that try to squeeze bucks in this miserable way.
Sorry, WHAT? People should absolutely boycott companies that try to squeeze bucks in this miserable way.
I'm torn. On one hand, I absolutely think that a capability available in the vehicle/device when you purchased it should be available for you to use, and not behind a software lock (heated seats, etc). On the other hand, an "upgrade" or 100% new software delivered via OTA (self driving, etc) seems a little more like it should be a separate thing.
Game theory at play. Tesla and its customers are adversaries, vying for the same dollars. Tesla implementing these security measures directly translates to being able to charge more for services. Same as John Deere and many others. This is a minmax problem. How to pay the least to cause the other actor to pay the most. If the feature costs $15K and breaking security costs $15K then it is effective security. Obviously not the case here.
Can they fix the power steering too then?
Ref: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/08/steering-failures-are-t...
Apparently it's a software problem.
Ref: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/08/steering-failures-are-t...
Apparently it's a software problem.
Rent-seeking is the true American way, it seems.
Good on the hackers. Good on everyone who helps to liberate us from the overreach of big business.
Good on the hackers. Good on everyone who helps to liberate us from the overreach of big business.
The real question is Tesla Supercharger capability. If you can't plug your car into that network, then you've lost a ton of value. But here's the thing. In order to disable supercharging, Tesla remotes into your vehicle to turn it off. It doesn't happen on the charger side, it happens on the vehicle. So if you have root on your Tesla, you can make sure you can always supercharge, which isn't mentioned anywhere else.
This should be "hacked" by the regulator and not by the hackers. If they sold you a car with heated seats (so if the hardware is there), the heated seats should be available for the consumer to use.
I would have thought that EFF and FSF would be more active in trying to promote open source in automobiles for privacy, security and being able to repair and modify the vehicle. I would think that it would be rather mind blowing how much information is gathered by the new vehicles about oneself. I have enough money to buy any model of Tesla, but will not due to privacy, security and safety reasons. (I consider drive by wire braking and acceleration a safety issue. With a stick shift I can insert the clutch and know that the drive system can be disabled. I also consider that the software can be modified over the air forcibly by Tesla a safety issue because it could be used for nefarious purposes.)
Cue the "You wouldn't download a car" memes.
While the exploit that allows them to run arbitrary code is unfixable, that doesn't mean Tesla couldn't update the vehicle to make accessing these features more difficult. For example, simply not delivering chunks of FSD to unauthorized vehicles server-side.
I guess my point is: This will start an arms race. Eventually you'll need to pick between an on-network Tesla getting software updates from them, or an off-network Tesla with FSD and other things that unlocked can provide. Heated seats can likely be re-enabled electronically without software (i.e. splice in a switch).
Personally, purely from a utilitarian perspective, I wouldn't choose to use FSD that wasn't getting continuous updates because it may not include road changes, state law changes, and frankly still has a lot of room for safety/reliability improvement. Maybe "Enhanced Autopilot" ($6K) just for lane change.
PS - 9/10 of Tesla's recalls have been software updates. So you'd lose those with an off-network Tesla.
I guess my point is: This will start an arms race. Eventually you'll need to pick between an on-network Tesla getting software updates from them, or an off-network Tesla with FSD and other things that unlocked can provide. Heated seats can likely be re-enabled electronically without software (i.e. splice in a switch).
Personally, purely from a utilitarian perspective, I wouldn't choose to use FSD that wasn't getting continuous updates because it may not include road changes, state law changes, and frankly still has a lot of room for safety/reliability improvement. Maybe "Enhanced Autopilot" ($6K) just for lane change.
PS - 9/10 of Tesla's recalls have been software updates. So you'd lose those with an off-network Tesla.
Big fan of anything that harms the control companies have over computers they've sold people, especially in deadly weapons like cars. Excellent work
They haven't managed to "unlock" the features yet. They've got root on the IC which "could" lead to unlocking them.[1]
https://www.blackhat.com/us-23/briefings/schedule/index.html...
https://www.blackhat.com/us-23/briefings/schedule/index.html...
Seeing this gives me the same warm, fuzzy feeling I had when I jailbroke my first iPhone to gain features that were impossible otherwise.
I wonder if Tesla will start using physical one-shot fuse bits buried deep in hard-to-access components (eg. hardwire a heater control relay open in the final programming step at the factory) to make these type of attacks more difficult. Of course that would preclude up-selling the feature later.
I wonder if Tesla will start using physical one-shot fuse bits buried deep in hard-to-access components (eg. hardwire a heater control relay open in the final programming step at the factory) to make these type of attacks more difficult. Of course that would preclude up-selling the feature later.
That's very cool. Especially if this could compromise the desktop version of this tech as well. Extracting my own TPM keys could be useful if MS/GOOG decides to boil the frog even harder.
"Full Self-Driving ... will soon allow the car to steer on its own". April 6 2023 [1]
I think the hackers should have waited.
[1] https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/is-tesla-full-self-drivin...
I think the hackers should have waited.
[1] https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/is-tesla-full-self-drivin...
Will be interesting to see how they did it. Using low cost off the shelf parts means nothing if you have to dismantle the entire car and solder to the tiniest of points. I still remember the first Xbox mod...30+ wires attached to the smallest of points on the motherboard.
At least in France if you have a serious accident there’s a technical examination of your car. If the insurance company finds out you tampered your car software (debridage) you’re left without any coverage.
> Software-locked features that need to be activated by the owner paying or subscribing to a service are becoming increasingly popular in the auto industry.
Popular is the wrong word. Common, maybe. But popular?
Popular is the wrong word. Common, maybe. But popular?
"Tesla has been known for their advanced and well-integrated car computers, from serving mundane entertainment purposes to fully autonomous driving capabilities."
No, the word "autonomous" should not be used in conjunction with any Tesla vehicles. That means it can drive itself with no one inside. No Tesla vehicle is anywhere near autonomous.
No, the word "autonomous" should not be used in conjunction with any Tesla vehicles. That means it can drive itself with no one inside. No Tesla vehicle is anywhere near autonomous.
Now comes the funny part, were tesla tries to make the platform trusted and locked down, and then people start to flash there own firmware and solder chip-mods, cause there is nothing GNUnder the sun.
Wouldn't be surprised if Tesla has a defeat-device buried somewhere that allows for remote permanent deactivation once parked in case of piracy
Wouldn't be surprised if Tesla has a defeat-device buried somewhere that allows for remote permanent deactivation once parked in case of piracy
I would have said I'm surprised that so many "hAcKeRz" are eager to prostrate themselves at the altar of eternal rent-seeking and powerlessness, but a lot of people here love simping for profit extractors, especially Lord Xoldermort. Another day, another rote disappointment.
> enable us to extract an otherwise vehicle-unique hardware-bound RSA key
not ed25519? I know very little about these encryption thingies. The Internet recommends ed25519 over rsa.
not ed25519? I know very little about these encryption thingies. The Internet recommends ed25519 over rsa.
I won't be buying any car with software locked features.
The 21st century equivalent of yanking the governor chip out of the Grand National? Well, OK, not quite.
https://www.thedrive.com/cars-101/39941/what-is-a-buick-gran...
https://www.thedrive.com/cars-101/39941/what-is-a-buick-gran...
There are already third party garages offering to unlock various things for less than Tesla wants (or upgrades Tesla simply doesn't sell).
They tend to involve a gizmo intercepting can messages though. The gizmo is usually keyed to the serial number of the car so you can't clone/move/resell them.
They tend to involve a gizmo intercepting can messages though. The gizmo is usually keyed to the serial number of the car so you can't clone/move/resell them.
A mostly-software solution would be cool. I've heard of hardware solutions before, a la https://ingenext.ca/collections/bonus-module
It seems the thought that Teslas are not cars, but rather tablets with wheels is accurate.
Injury Reserve said it best: Fuck it, jailbreak the Tesla
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWQL_XORalY
Buried in the article is the claim that this will let them pull the RSA private key the car owns out for other uses -- while this is likely to remain a very niche attack vector, that's got to be really bad news for someone in vehicle security at Tesla. On the other hand, post jailbreak you could anonymize your location on Tesla's servers, which would be nice.