I Can't Breathe(blog.citigroup.com)
blog.citigroup.com
I Can't Breathe
https://blog.citigroup.com/2020/05/i-cant-breathe/
63 comments
Pretty bold of Citi to publish something like this. I wish more companies had the balls to do something like this... Not just some "Yay equality!!" Tweet, but a real and specific stance. Kudos.
My cynical brain is working overtime finding a flaw in this statement, or the angle from which it is selfish, and it's failing. One of the things I like about it is that its personal, not a company statement. Its a risk for them, though, and I am also, reluctantly, impressed.
Don’t forget Citi Bank was involved one of the most racist economic foreign policy to ever exist instituted by France and the US against Haiti.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_debt_of_Haiti
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_debt_of_Haiti
I'd love to see it more. Ibram Kendi makes the point that in the US, there's not really a thing like "neutral" or "non-racist". One either supports the status quo, loudly or quietly. Or one is an anti-racist. Being "apolitical", which is what most companies pretend to be, is just a fancy way of saying, "Things are fine as they are."
As press critic Jay Rosen suggests, we are all political, especially in times like these. The trick is to be political, to advocate for our own values, without politicizing things: https://pressthink.org/2020/05/you-cannot-keep-from-getting-...
As press critic Jay Rosen suggests, we are all political, especially in times like these. The trick is to be political, to advocate for our own values, without politicizing things: https://pressthink.org/2020/05/you-cannot-keep-from-getting-...
IDK, I’m a little more skeptical of this post. It seems more posturing than actually effecting change. CFOs have other means of doing that, in better ways than a simple blog post. This is no different than the celebrity cause du jour tweet except that it’s coming from a business leader rather than some actor/actress/pop star. Let’s see this CFO use their connections and influence to make things better in real ways.
> CFOs have other means of doing that, in better ways than a simple blog post.
I believe this CFO agrees with you. Most of the "celebrity cause du jour" tweets are just that, tweets. At least at the end of this post he listed groups that he's donating to
[1] NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund
[2] Advancement Project
[3] Color of Change
This may not mean much to you, but at least he's claiming to put his money where his mouth is.
[1] https://www.naacpldf.org/
[2] https://advancementproject.org/
[3] https://colorofchange.org/
I believe this CFO agrees with you. Most of the "celebrity cause du jour" tweets are just that, tweets. At least at the end of this post he listed groups that he's donating to
[1] NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund
[2] Advancement Project
[3] Color of Change
This may not mean much to you, but at least he's claiming to put his money where his mouth is.
[1] https://www.naacpldf.org/
[2] https://advancementproject.org/
[3] https://colorofchange.org/
Meh, some of us have been making charitable contributions to (not these exact ones but similar) like charities for years. This just seems a little too convenient and charlatan.
Saying "meh" and declaring virtue signal! to someone donating money or otherwise doing good is the ultimate 21st century turnoff.
Quit being so cynical, it's not healthy.
Quit being so cynical, it's not healthy.
This is such a toxic and cynical stance. You are putting all responsibility onto people with "connections" so that you don't have to feel guilty about doing nothing. But at the same time, you are complaining that a rich and powerful person is using both their money and their influence to try and help!
You are part of the problem.
You are part of the problem.
Agreed. Actions speak louder than words. This (and many other company statements like this) are mostly empty nice feel good words, but merely that. Just like what a populist or demagogue would say/do to appear favorably in the eyes of others...
IMO donating to an organization seems weak. It's like outsourcing the problem to someone else, and thinking your helping them because you're giving them money. If you really want to help, get your hands dirty, and take matters into your own hands...
IMO donating to an organization seems weak. It's like outsourcing the problem to someone else, and thinking your helping them because you're giving them money. If you really want to help, get your hands dirty, and take matters into your own hands...
Strongly disagree with this sentiment. Not everyone has the time, skills, or even the "cred" to get their hands dirty.
Giving money to good causes is never weak. It is an extraordinarily effective tool for those of us who want to help.
An effective legal advocacy or lobby group is a force multiplier - they're hands down the best "bang for your buck" in this situation.
By contrast, me spending a day working with inner city youth or building Habitat for Humanity is laudable or protesting in the streets is at best effective on a much smaller scale.
And secondly, this message is clearly aimed squarely at other well to do concerned citizens like him who are looking for ways to help.
He is effectively vetting these organizations as "acceptable by the CitiGroup C suite." As an example, I forwarded this to my parents who would never "get their hands dirty" but also are open to donating to good causes.
This will reach them in a way no celebrity tweet or protest sign possibly could.
Giving money to good causes is never weak. It is an extraordinarily effective tool for those of us who want to help.
An effective legal advocacy or lobby group is a force multiplier - they're hands down the best "bang for your buck" in this situation.
By contrast, me spending a day working with inner city youth or building Habitat for Humanity is laudable or protesting in the streets is at best effective on a much smaller scale.
And secondly, this message is clearly aimed squarely at other well to do concerned citizens like him who are looking for ways to help.
He is effectively vetting these organizations as "acceptable by the CitiGroup C suite." As an example, I forwarded this to my parents who would never "get their hands dirty" but also are open to donating to good causes.
This will reach them in a way no celebrity tweet or protest sign possibly could.
What do you expect him to do?? This mindset is incredibly toxic. "If you are not personally fixing all the problems in the world you are weak". And what are you doing?? Complaining about it on HN?
There is a very reasonable argument that says this guy is using all the tools at his disposal. He has money, and he has influence. He is exercising both to make the world a better place. How can you possibly complain about that?
There is a very reasonable argument that says this guy is using all the tools at his disposal. He has money, and he has influence. He is exercising both to make the world a better place. How can you possibly complain about that?
Yet and still HN thought it was some type of act of martyrdom when a multi millionaire old enough to retire resigned from Amazon as an act of protest.
Taylor Swift for instance didn’t exactly gain fans among Trump supporters for speaking out against him. What exactly are they suppose to do besides use their platform?
Taylor Swift for instance didn’t exactly gain fans among Trump supporters for speaking out against him. What exactly are they suppose to do besides use their platform?
what do you suggest?
I would hope and can safely assume that they (Citi) have relatively decent community and governmental connections. Leverage those.
Leverage them how? What are specific actions you think a bank can reasonably take to effect large scale social change?
I’m sure that the current administration will be willing participants in a forum about police conduct with respect to minorities.
It is. And it is hard to overstate given that in any large institution that kind of post has to go through multiple layers of bureaucracy. Doubly so in a bank. While I can't shake off the feeling that there is a cynical calculation there for some good PR, I believe it is still a good move.
A C-level exec needs to pass "multiple layers of bureaucracy" to post a personal note on the company blog? That seems excessive, even for a large corporation. If you can't trust your executive management team to represent the company, what are they good for?
Do you have any idea how PR is managed..
Coming from a University research background for the last 5 years after obtaining my PhD, no I don't. Could you elaborate on this?
What process would this CFO need to go through to share this possibly "contentious" post on one of the world's largest and globally recognised banks' websites?
What process would this CFO need to go through to share this possibly "contentious" post on one of the world's largest and globally recognised banks' websites?
At a minimum it has been reviewed by the PR / marketing manager, legal team, and more than likely the CEO. There was also a lengthy editing process.
A large company doesn't release anything without a review like this, no matter how mundane. You can bet they will double down when discussing sensitive social issues.
A large company doesn't release anything without a review like this, no matter how mundane. You can bet they will double down when discussing sensitive social issues.
I think this is entirely depended on the way the C*O management culture (for lack of better expression). But at least I would expect he's let know legal, CEO, and the PR officer before.
it seems like PR for usury to me. there's been quite a bit of 'bankers are nice guys' propaganda since the coronu.
Perhaps scared of the mass uprisings, people are angry, and frustrated and this situation could explode in the next few weeks. Interesting that you used the word usury. You never really see that word used to refer to predatory loans except in an Islamic context.
many have seen the power of usury through time. most declare it hurts people and is very destructive so should not be practiced, some saw the power and decided to use it. 'lend unto other nations, and you shall rule over those nations'
[deleted]
How many people did they foreclose upon during the mortgage crisis? How many people have they extracted usurious amounts of interest from? How many people have they lured into debt and deceitful loans?
This is a large corporation with as much a hand in perpetuating systemic inequality as any other large corporation. Moreso because it exists in the financial sector. Calling out inequality and donating funds generated from parasitic practices is not enough. Let's talk about debt forgiveness, defunding the carceral state and dismantling other structures of oppression.
This is a large corporation with as much a hand in perpetuating systemic inequality as any other large corporation. Moreso because it exists in the financial sector. Calling out inequality and donating funds generated from parasitic practices is not enough. Let's talk about debt forgiveness, defunding the carceral state and dismantling other structures of oppression.
That was 12 years ago. Perhaps they have learned from it?
(I don't believe they have learned anything, but this tiny chink in the armor suggests that at least I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on this blog post.)
(I don't believe they have learned anything, but this tiny chink in the armor suggests that at least I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on this blog post.)
When it comes to speaking for racial justice and equality for LGBTQ, private corporations have been much more on the side of the angels than the government.
The same government that wants to shut down Twitter.
The same government that wants to shut down Twitter.
You mean the same corporations that got bailed out by the us tax payer, had billions of dollars of fines, and should have executives in prison for misconduct. Yeah they are the ones we should look up to /s
You’ll have to excuse me if I’m a lot less concerned about white collar crime than I am about a government that systematically targets people who look like me.
But speaking of which, the government is also run by a President who actually quoted a segregationist governor about how to deal with protestors.
As far as crimes, he also was fined for both running a fake charity and a fake “university” and members of Congress basically got away with insider trading pre-Covid.
But your statement kind of demonstrates the problem. Unarmed Black people are getting killed by police and it getting covered up by corrupt government. When I have to worry about my son who has grown up all of his life in the burbs being seen as a threat because he is a big Black guy living in a predominantly White city, I really don’t give a damn about a corrupt CEO compared to a corrupt justice system.
But speaking of which, the government is also run by a President who actually quoted a segregationist governor about how to deal with protestors.
As far as crimes, he also was fined for both running a fake charity and a fake “university” and members of Congress basically got away with insider trading pre-Covid.
But your statement kind of demonstrates the problem. Unarmed Black people are getting killed by police and it getting covered up by corrupt government. When I have to worry about my son who has grown up all of his life in the burbs being seen as a threat because he is a big Black guy living in a predominantly White city, I really don’t give a damn about a corrupt CEO compared to a corrupt justice system.
Those private corporations are the ones buying that government.
This investigation will likely end in nothing.
This will be delayed until news coverage stop, then everyone can continue their life business as usual.
The cops that choked Eric Gardner to death are all free right now.
This will be delayed until news coverage stop, then everyone can continue their life business as usual.
The cops that choked Eric Gardner to death are all free right now.
The cops that choked Eric Gardner to death are all free right now.
"Despite the progress the United States has made, Black Americans are too often denied basic privileges that others take for granted. I am not talking about the privileges of wealth, education or job opportunities. I'm talking about fundamental human and civil rights and the dignity and respect that comes with them. I'm talking about something as mundane as going for a jog."
What progress?
This song was written in 1966. It could have been written this morning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFNkacckLBU
We have made technological progress, which has brought it's own benefits, but that may be more in the form of keeping us busy / distracted; pointing our genetically evolved anger and biases towards the Internet rather than the real world.
But progress within humanity itself?
There can't be progress if there are no consequences, or if the consequences are escaped too frequently, or if the blame is laid upon the symptoms and not the cause: Rioting and looting is anti-social and illegal, yes, but property destruction isn't the same ball park as murder. Focus on the cause, and the symptoms disappear.
But then it's impossible to provide any absolute answer. There's overwhelming beauty in humanity. The good ones are forgiving, and the bad ones will take advantage, and this takes us into game theory. The only way the game changes is if the rules are changed to have more / worse consequences for the bad actors; better systems to ensure the enforcement of these consequences.
Bad elements of humanity will persist despite all this; we'll be colonising Mars in parallel with children being brought up to hate anything unfamiliar, female circumcision will still be law in some countries, and there will still governments that censor and censure even minor dissent, flat-earthers, anti-vaxxers, holocaust deniers.
I don't know if the US is making progress in race relations. That song from 1966 says a resounding no. I don't know if the political will exists within those with the political power to change things. US politics (only because that's the current example) is like my parents' fashion sense: stuck in their favourite era and showing no signs of even the consideration of modernising.
I don't know the answer, and it's maddening and depressing. But it's ignorable, for me, and therein lies the cause of the lack of political will: the symptoms aren't bad enough warrant the cost of seeing the doctor. School shootings once a month aren't bad enough to change gun laws; one dead black man doesn't have anywhere near the political capital of a dozen dead children.
For there to be change, the symptoms have to be more extreme, and they have to persist. History says so.
Technologically, this is 2020. Sociologically this might as well be 1966.
What progress?
This song was written in 1966. It could have been written this morning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFNkacckLBU
We have made technological progress, which has brought it's own benefits, but that may be more in the form of keeping us busy / distracted; pointing our genetically evolved anger and biases towards the Internet rather than the real world.
But progress within humanity itself?
There can't be progress if there are no consequences, or if the consequences are escaped too frequently, or if the blame is laid upon the symptoms and not the cause: Rioting and looting is anti-social and illegal, yes, but property destruction isn't the same ball park as murder. Focus on the cause, and the symptoms disappear.
But then it's impossible to provide any absolute answer. There's overwhelming beauty in humanity. The good ones are forgiving, and the bad ones will take advantage, and this takes us into game theory. The only way the game changes is if the rules are changed to have more / worse consequences for the bad actors; better systems to ensure the enforcement of these consequences.
Bad elements of humanity will persist despite all this; we'll be colonising Mars in parallel with children being brought up to hate anything unfamiliar, female circumcision will still be law in some countries, and there will still governments that censor and censure even minor dissent, flat-earthers, anti-vaxxers, holocaust deniers.
I don't know if the US is making progress in race relations. That song from 1966 says a resounding no. I don't know if the political will exists within those with the political power to change things. US politics (only because that's the current example) is like my parents' fashion sense: stuck in their favourite era and showing no signs of even the consideration of modernising.
I don't know the answer, and it's maddening and depressing. But it's ignorable, for me, and therein lies the cause of the lack of political will: the symptoms aren't bad enough warrant the cost of seeing the doctor. School shootings once a month aren't bad enough to change gun laws; one dead black man doesn't have anywhere near the political capital of a dozen dead children.
For there to be change, the symptoms have to be more extreme, and they have to persist. History says so.
Technologically, this is 2020. Sociologically this might as well be 1966.
What progress?
Seeing that my parents grew up in the segregated south where racism was the law - ie Jim Crow - I wouldn’t say there is no progress. Also redlining was the law.
While the criminal justice system is just as corrupt as it ever was. It isn’t getting worse - it’s getting filmed.
Technologically, this is 2020. Sociologically this might as well be 1966.
Did you or your parents grow up in the 60s? Have they told you what life was like then?
Seeing that my parents grew up in the segregated south where racism was the law - ie Jim Crow - I wouldn’t say there is no progress. Also redlining was the law.
While the criminal justice system is just as corrupt as it ever was. It isn’t getting worse - it’s getting filmed.
Technologically, this is 2020. Sociologically this might as well be 1966.
Did you or your parents grow up in the 60s? Have they told you what life was like then?
I admit, I was cringing when I saw the Citi logo at first thinking they would somehow pivot this into some marketing ploy.
Good on Citi for taking a firm stand and calling on some organizations people can donate to, which I personally hadn’t heard of until I read the post.
Good on Citi for taking a firm stand and calling on some organizations people can donate to, which I personally hadn’t heard of until I read the post.
Police stood by and watch someone presumably getting murdered. Aside from also heart condition present, society can't tolerate bullying any longer. Grow some spine, even if they break you.
Some information on the pressures driving statements like these, beyond the writer's personal impetus: https://www.corp-research.org/citigroup
I wish he'd gone a little further in condemning the rioting. It would have been the courageous thing to do.
The rioting is a mistake. It will not change hearts and minds. It will not undo the problems endemic to police forces. In fact, it may very well exacerbate them.
The problematic archetype is the bigoted cop who's drunk with power and behaves more like an animal operating on instinct than a thinking human. These people, in the collective, are irrational, aggressive, and reactionary. They also hide behind authority and a convenient veneer in the "rule of law". We also are now seeing that there may be many of more of them (and many more enablers of them still) than we thought.
And it is exactly these people who will feel vindicated and emboldened in the face of the rioting currently underway. If we're not careful, it may also give them a pretext to resort to even more horrible tactics in the future. Increased surveillance of political organizers and low-income neighborhoods, more military weaponry at their disposal, laxer guidelines around 'use of force'.
The current trajectory is not the way. We need to use the system of governance we have at our disposal to try and fix this. It's the harder but also only truly effective means of recourse society has at its disposal.
The rioting is a mistake. It will not change hearts and minds. It will not undo the problems endemic to police forces. In fact, it may very well exacerbate them.
The problematic archetype is the bigoted cop who's drunk with power and behaves more like an animal operating on instinct than a thinking human. These people, in the collective, are irrational, aggressive, and reactionary. They also hide behind authority and a convenient veneer in the "rule of law". We also are now seeing that there may be many of more of them (and many more enablers of them still) than we thought.
And it is exactly these people who will feel vindicated and emboldened in the face of the rioting currently underway. If we're not careful, it may also give them a pretext to resort to even more horrible tactics in the future. Increased surveillance of political organizers and low-income neighborhoods, more military weaponry at their disposal, laxer guidelines around 'use of force'.
The current trajectory is not the way. We need to use the system of governance we have at our disposal to try and fix this. It's the harder but also only truly effective means of recourse society has at its disposal.
From reports across the country, it's definitely unclear who is responsible for most of the rioting. Some people are clearly outsiders, provocateurs. In other places, it's clear that the cops are the ones escalating and provoking. There's a fair bit of evidence that protest organizers worked hard to stop rioting.
Moreover, I think focusing too much on the property destruction is missing the point. As MLK says, "Riot is the language of the unheard." White people have had a couple hundred years to "use the system of governance" to fix this. We haven't.
I get why you'd want to call for patience, for peaceful pursuit through the law and courts. But you should read "A Call for Unity", an open letter 8 pastors wrote to MLK in 1963:
https://web.archive.org/web/20181229055408/https://moodle.ti...
his response to this is the famous Letter From Birmingham Jail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_from_Birmingham_Jail
Like you, the white pastors wanted patience, wanted people to trust the system to eventually provide justice. MLK eloquently explained why that was wrong. And little in the nearly 60 years since makes the case any more persuasive.
Moreover, I think focusing too much on the property destruction is missing the point. As MLK says, "Riot is the language of the unheard." White people have had a couple hundred years to "use the system of governance" to fix this. We haven't.
I get why you'd want to call for patience, for peaceful pursuit through the law and courts. But you should read "A Call for Unity", an open letter 8 pastors wrote to MLK in 1963:
https://web.archive.org/web/20181229055408/https://moodle.ti...
his response to this is the famous Letter From Birmingham Jail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_from_Birmingham_Jail
Like you, the white pastors wanted patience, wanted people to trust the system to eventually provide justice. MLK eloquently explained why that was wrong. And little in the nearly 60 years since makes the case any more persuasive.
I never said violent revolution isn't a possibly effective means of enacting political change. History in fact demonstrates that quite vividly.
But violent revolution is also not, in the aggregate, a net benefit in the immediate term. Not even for black people. Believing otherwise represents a failure to anticipate 2nd/3rd order consequences and beyond. In the best case, you might experience a lot of suffering today to benefit people in the far future. I don't think we'll see that best case play out with the current rioting. We've been here before, many times (e.g. Rodney King). It doesn't work.
Take a look at Hong Kong. They got rid of Carrie Lam and just a few days ago lost their special trading status with the United States. Stay tuned for more consequences.
The flaw in MLK's logic and the reason that black people still encounter systemic mistreatment 60 years later is that it fails to account for economic conditions (where do stereotypes come from? vivid, sticky ideas that trigger fear, like violent crime; where does violent crime come from? economic disenfranchisment) and the glacial pace of cultural change (relatedly, the 'hearts and minds problem'; sometimes you just need to wait for enough bigots to be better educated, achieve empathy by actually knowing black people personally, or die out).
But violent revolution is also not, in the aggregate, a net benefit in the immediate term. Not even for black people. Believing otherwise represents a failure to anticipate 2nd/3rd order consequences and beyond. In the best case, you might experience a lot of suffering today to benefit people in the far future. I don't think we'll see that best case play out with the current rioting. We've been here before, many times (e.g. Rodney King). It doesn't work.
Take a look at Hong Kong. They got rid of Carrie Lam and just a few days ago lost their special trading status with the United States. Stay tuned for more consequences.
The flaw in MLK's logic and the reason that black people still encounter systemic mistreatment 60 years later is that it fails to account for economic conditions (where do stereotypes come from? vivid, sticky ideas that trigger fear, like violent crime; where does violent crime come from? economic disenfranchisment) and the glacial pace of cultural change (relatedly, the 'hearts and minds problem'; sometimes you just need to wait for enough bigots to be better educated, achieve empathy by actually knowing black people personally, or die out).
We've been here before, many times (e.g. Rodney King). It doesn't work.
It caused an overhaul of the LAPD. Do you really think the Bush administration would have charged the cops otherwise?
The flaw in MLK's logic and the reason that black people still encounter systemic mistreatment 60 years later is that it fails to account for economic conditions
The Poor People’s Campaign.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poor_People%27s_Campaign
It caused an overhaul of the LAPD. Do you really think the Bush administration would have charged the cops otherwise?
The flaw in MLK's logic and the reason that black people still encounter systemic mistreatment 60 years later is that it fails to account for economic conditions
The Poor People’s Campaign.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poor_People%27s_Campaign
When you have the police state escalating the violence against you, you either get violent in return or you get the knee to your neck.
The reason why things have gotten violent is as I mentioned in a prior post is self-defense. People don't trust the police at all, and why should they? We've seen them attack journalists multiple times, we've seen them assault people who were protesting peacefully and increasingly it looks like they're employing agent provocateurs to give themselves a reason to get violent. Who is going to hold them accountable when the system refuses to hold them accountable?
The reason why things have gotten violent is as I mentioned in a prior post is self-defense. People don't trust the police at all, and why should they? We've seen them attack journalists multiple times, we've seen them assault people who were protesting peacefully and increasingly it looks like they're employing agent provocateurs to give themselves a reason to get violent. Who is going to hold them accountable when the system refuses to hold them accountable?
I'd be careful to generalize from the almost certainly distorted view you have of the "facts on the ground". Also keep in mind the irony of weaponizing sweeping generalizations against a particular group of people.
You should naturally expect some amount of badness in almost any sample of humans, including the police. It might also help to empathize with a cop on the ground in this situation when police stations have literally been blown up.
You should naturally expect some amount of badness in almost any sample of humans, including the police. It might also help to empathize with a cop on the ground in this situation when police stations have literally been blown up.
A few things:
First, I didn't realize blue was a race now. Or are we not allowed to criticize the police state? Does your 'sweeping generalization' rule also apply when we criticize things like the Chinese government because 'I'm sure some of the politicians are good people'?
Second, you don't say. The problem is that the police have zero accountability. They get away with murder and assault like in [1] or [2] or [3] and for what? Can you tell me what laws they violated? Are you personally going to go out there and hold those cops accountable for what they did? It sounds like you should go outside and get the real view of what's happening on the ground.
[1] https://twitter.com/imactuallynina/status/126691262719377408...
[2] https://www.businessinsider.com/nypd-officer-shoves-woman-ge...
[3] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/30/us/minneapolis-protests-p...
First, I didn't realize blue was a race now. Or are we not allowed to criticize the police state? Does your 'sweeping generalization' rule also apply when we criticize things like the Chinese government because 'I'm sure some of the politicians are good people'?
Second, you don't say. The problem is that the police have zero accountability. They get away with murder and assault like in [1] or [2] or [3] and for what? Can you tell me what laws they violated? Are you personally going to go out there and hold those cops accountable for what they did? It sounds like you should go outside and get the real view of what's happening on the ground.
[1] https://twitter.com/imactuallynina/status/126691262719377408...
[2] https://www.businessinsider.com/nypd-officer-shoves-woman-ge...
[3] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/30/us/minneapolis-protests-p...
Here's another one for you: Police shooting at a woman on her own property [1]. Are all of those cops the bad ones? Should I empathize with them assaulting someone on their own property?
[1] https://twitter.com/tkerssen/status/1266921821653385225
[1] https://twitter.com/tkerssen/status/1266921821653385225
Why in the hell should I “empathize” with a police department that tried to cover it up until video was shown?
You should naturally expect some amount of badness in almost any sample of humans, including the police.
And the “badness” seems to only affect people who look like me...
But as Chris Rock said...
Well, it’s not most cops. It’s just a few bad apples. It’s just a few bad apples.” Bad apple? That’s a lovely name for murderer. That almost sounds nice. I’ve had a bad apple. It was tart, but it didn’t choke me out. Here’s the thing....But some jobs can’t have bad apples. Some jobs, everybody gotta be good. Like … pilots. Ya know, American Airlines can’t be like, “Most of our pilots like to land. We just got a few bad apples that like to crash into mountains. Please bear with us.”
You should naturally expect some amount of badness in almost any sample of humans, including the police.
And the “badness” seems to only affect people who look like me...
But as Chris Rock said...
Well, it’s not most cops. It’s just a few bad apples. It’s just a few bad apples.” Bad apple? That’s a lovely name for murderer. That almost sounds nice. I’ve had a bad apple. It was tart, but it didn’t choke me out. Here’s the thing....But some jobs can’t have bad apples. Some jobs, everybody gotta be good. Like … pilots. Ya know, American Airlines can’t be like, “Most of our pilots like to land. We just got a few bad apples that like to crash into mountains. Please bear with us.”
It's true that we need to be careful about generalization. But in the 6 years since Ferguson, nobody has done so much to convince me of the deep systemic problems in police departments as the heads of police unions. Time after time after time they have made it clear whose side they're on.
This will not fly:
> the reason that black people still encounter systemic mistreatment 60 years later
The reason that black people encounter systemic mistreatment is white racism. Full stop. It's not due to a "flaw in MLK's logic".
Also, MLK was not advocating "violent revolution", so I think the flawed logic here is yours. Especially your notion that we just have to keep waiting for bigots to improve. It's two full generations since MLK walked the earth. Waiting doesn't work.
> the reason that black people still encounter systemic mistreatment 60 years later
The reason that black people encounter systemic mistreatment is white racism. Full stop. It's not due to a "flaw in MLK's logic".
Also, MLK was not advocating "violent revolution", so I think the flawed logic here is yours. Especially your notion that we just have to keep waiting for bigots to improve. It's two full generations since MLK walked the earth. Waiting doesn't work.
Maybe with only a finite amount of attention at his disposal, he opted to focus on the cause of the rioting?
I know there's a whole bunch of galaxy-brain takes on this about how counterproductive the rioting is, but it's not like cops have needed any pretext to resort to "more horrible tactics" already.
I know there's a whole bunch of galaxy-brain takes on this about how counterproductive the rioting is, but it's not like cops have needed any pretext to resort to "more horrible tactics" already.
Virtue signaling the obvious is a poor "return on attention", to borrow your way of looking at it. My point at the top was that it's the easy thing to do.
Perhaps; it's not clear to me that making a statement of "the obvious" is necessarily an "easy" thing to do from the heights of corporate America.
Incidentally, the overuse of "virtue signalling" to describe other people taking positions that they presumably sincerely believe in and wish to share with each other is incredibly snide, and if you don't want to come off like an asshole, you should stop. It's become one of those phrases that seems more like a pointless tribal "tic" (like "political correctness").
Incidentally, the overuse of "virtue signalling" to describe other people taking positions that they presumably sincerely believe in and wish to share with each other is incredibly snide, and if you don't want to come off like an asshole, you should stop. It's become one of those phrases that seems more like a pointless tribal "tic" (like "political correctness").
How did that whole peacefully kneeling thing work out?
But yes rioting does change things. It forces people to pay attention.
Increased surveillance of political organizers and low-income neighborhoods, more military weaponry at their disposal, laxer guidelines around 'use of force'.
Because those types of things never happened in during the peaceful marches in the 60s...
We need to use the system of governance we have at our disposal to try and fix this. It's the harder but also only truly effective means of recourse society has at its disposal.
We don’t have that system at our disposal when the majority prioritizes the life of a fetus (or for that matter a dog) over the life of minorities.
But yes rioting does change things. It forces people to pay attention.
Increased surveillance of political organizers and low-income neighborhoods, more military weaponry at their disposal, laxer guidelines around 'use of force'.
Because those types of things never happened in during the peaceful marches in the 60s...
We need to use the system of governance we have at our disposal to try and fix this. It's the harder but also only truly effective means of recourse society has at its disposal.
We don’t have that system at our disposal when the majority prioritizes the life of a fetus (or for that matter a dog) over the life of minorities.
And that's why we as black people need to step up and get into those positions of governance with the help of good white people who are already benefitting from their privilege.
We don't need more rappers, we need more politicians, doctors, engineers. People in positions of power so that the status quo can change.
Until then nothing's going to change, and IMHO that would take more than a couple generations
We don't need more rappers, we need more politicians, doctors, engineers. People in positions of power so that the status quo can change.
Until then nothing's going to change, and IMHO that would take more than a couple generations
Politicians like the Black mayor who got the police called on him - in his own city?
https://www.ebony.com/news/chase-bank-calls-cops-on-black-ma...
The Black doctor who got shot by a policeman while helping his patient?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Charles_Kinsey
A title doesn’t give you power in America if you are a minority. You will still be seen as a threat. I live in the most affluent county in my state, and our household is above the median household income, my son and his (Black) friend still gets stares walking around unless they are hanging out with their larger group of White friends.
https://www.ebony.com/news/chase-bank-calls-cops-on-black-ma...
The Black doctor who got shot by a policeman while helping his patient?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Charles_Kinsey
A title doesn’t give you power in America if you are a minority. You will still be seen as a threat. I live in the most affluent county in my state, and our household is above the median household income, my son and his (Black) friend still gets stares walking around unless they are hanging out with their larger group of White friends.
>We need to use the system of governance we have at our disposal to try and fix this.
It is not working. People are being murdered by our government, and the murderers are not punished. There could not be a stronger argument against your position.
It is not working. People are being murdered by our government, and the murderers are not punished. There could not be a stronger argument against your position.
Rioting is not a tactic, it's a pretty understandable reaction to powerlessness within the system, and also murderous violence from the system. There's no reason to condemn it.