harlowja

Just fyi :)

Docs:

https://docs.openstack.org/infra/jenkins-job-builder/

Reviews:

https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack-infra/jen...

Code:

https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/jenkins-job-b...

harlowja

9년 전discuss

It also seems pretty much the same as ansible (which suffers the same problems as you mentioned).

I pretty much agree with you, they should of provided 2 entrypoints IMHO, they can make there DSL and all that and make it (eventually) turing complete and at the same time they should just provide composeable objects in <some> language as well.

I've never quite figured out who the target audience is for these kind of DSL(s), is it people that can't program, or people that can't program well/at all (without adult supervision)?

harlowja

10년 전discuss

You should remove zookeeper from 2 and move it to 3.

https://zookeeper.apache.org/doc/trunk/zookeeperReconfig.htm...

That's been out for a while now.

harlowja

10년 전discuss

Thanks for the part of the response though I'm still concerned at the 'felt' part though, especially if that felt part didn't involve talking with much/any(?) of that community in a public forum. Is there anything I can do to help you understand it better, I'd at least like to be able to echo whatever concerns you had to that community, because at that point it can be actual data that made the decision to go with CNCF creation and not just feelings or thoughts of movement or positive signals (all very fluffy things IMHO).

harlowja

10년 전discuss

So being a PTL in OpenStack I have some various comments and questions that would be nice to have your thoughts on.

In terms of looking at OpenStack hard; and reaching decisions based on various <things> did you do any reach out to the OpenStack community to actually communicate the things you found or heard or concluded so that the group there (including myself) can actually work on improving itself (or perhaps some of the reasons you stated aren't even correct and the community could have helped you clarify those)? If not then it concerns me that you may have reached conclusions without actually talking with that community (but I don't want to jump to any conclusions without getting your thoughts/input).

So far from looking outwards in on the CNCF and seeing how it compares to the OpenStack community (which I am more involved with, including other small side-communities that I also work in) I've yet to understand what exactly the CNCF is targeting. It seems to be a body that is just adopting various projects that align to some mission (?); I have personally a hard time understanding the reasoning some of the projects have been adopted, maybe you can shed some light on that (what is true north for the CNCF, where is it written down, what is the TOC actually making adoption yes/no decisions on? what criteria? what is the technical taste you talk about, where is it written down?)

The nice thing about OpenStack is that they are writing most/all of this down and agreeing on those kinds of questions in public:

https://github.com/openstack/governance/tree/master/referenc... (github is a mirror, not the source of this repo, but easier for browsing purposes).

harlowja

10년 전discuss

Where are you getting the 60% number from?

From an analysis of all commits in the k8s (main) repo this is the data I am getting about domains and the breakup of which users under which domains commit/author the most.

  -----------------------
  Top 20 author (domains)
  -----------------------
  
  google.com => 16825
  gmail.com => 8220
  redhat.com => 4051
  fathomdb.com => 501
  bedafamily.com => 420
  coreos.com => 398
  huawei.com => 352
  raintown.org => 269
  zte.com.cn => 183
  mesosphere.io => 172
  zju.edu.cn => 140
  apache.org => 126
  mirantis.com => 72
  hotmail.co.uk => 67
  amadeus.com => 67
  163.com => 64
  us.ibm.com => 64
  tmrts.com => 44
  box.com => 43
  canonical.com => 42
  
  --------------------------
  Top 20 committer (domains)
  --------------------------
  
  google.com => 16655
  gmail.com => 7130
  redhat.com => 4065
  fathomdb.com => 493
  bedafamily.com => 419
  coreos.com => 388
  huawei.com => 348
  raintown.org => 268
  zte.com.cn => 180
  mesosphere.io => 174
  zju.edu.cn => 131
  apache.org => 121
  amadeus.com => 66
  163.com => 65
  us.ibm.com => 64
  hotmail.co.uk => 63
  mirantis.com => 63
  ebay.com => 53
  box.com => 43
  tmrts.com => 42

Btw you (google?) should really invest in something like http://stackalytics.com/ if the community wants to have good transparency around this type of data.

Crappy script to generate that data @ https://gist.github.com/harlowja/aca0b3c7d94c78014798fd9eb88...

harlowja

10년 전discuss

Pick your favorite programming language (or say ansible if u really love more yaml, or ...).

harlowja

10년 전discuss

So out of curiosity, what did you see about OpenStack that made you go this route?

I myself am a PTL (project technical lead) in one of the OpenStack projects and although I do understand where you are coming from I wonder what the gist of the experience you had was...

Care to share what experiences you have that made you think 'total dumpster fire'?

I know the software isn't perfect, but then what software is? Also I've seen that the OpenStack 'having a bad time experience' is as much of a cultural change as it is a software change; ie, OSS in general isn't a take and not contribute kind of thing, that's not how it really works/gets better.

harlowja

10년 전discuss

I have a somewhat confused feeling that your definition from above of 'fully production-ready cluster' is different than mine and others ;)

harlowja

10년 전discuss

So is there ongoing work to replace borg with K8s (afaik the adoption of omega pretty much stalled and/or died)?

I myself would feel more confidence in K8s if there was usage of K8s outside of GKE and the dogfood being created was eaten by the rest of google as well (or at least there was a publicized plan to make that happen), because otherwise it feels more like K8s is a experiment that google folks are waiting to see what happens before the rest of google adopts it.

Thoughts?

harlowja

10년 전discuss

Has anyone figured out how to debug and/or analyze deep ANN?

That's the problem I always had, you may get them into a trained state, but good luck figuring out any reason 'why' they ended up in that state (or even what that state really is).

harlowja

10년 전discuss

While I agree with the fact that it isn't terrible as it once was; I personally can't say pip is really starting to look any better until the following is solved:

https://github.com/pypa/pip/issues/988

''Pip needs a dependency resolver''

Without such a thing you really don't quite have a way to ensure what you are requesting to be installed actually is a valid set of things.

harlowja

10년 전discuss

Call it 'googles view of a stack', at least that doesn't make it sound like an elitist view on (one of many) versions of a stack (that yes is just one version of many stacks that have and do work for the <wider world>).

harlowja

10년 전discuss

Well that's odd, they sort of forget to mention the whole premise of (all the projects composed in) openstack (which is to provide the same APIs across providers, vendors... by its very nature escaping lock-in by doing this).

Also sadly (and maybe I'm taking this wrong) but calling the holy land 'Google Infrastructure For Everyone Else' seems condescending ...

harlowja

10년 전discuss

Do you (or people you know?) plan on publishing peer reviewed papers for how the lease algorithm works, how the multi-version concurrency control model works (and so on)?

None of these are afaik things built in to raft but are add-ons that etcd has created (that may or may not even use raft).

It'd be great to instill confidence in these add-on features by having them peer-reviewed in a similar manner as raft is/was/has been.

harlowja

10년 전discuss

I would tend to agree, knowing what zookeeper has been doing and actually using zookeeper (and etcd) I can say that the API and the primitives offered by zookeeper are IMHO better (although this multi-version concurrency control model is interesting) and more mature.

It feels like etcd is 'still discovering itself' for lack of better words.

Btw: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/ZOOKEEPER-2169 (this is the equivalent of TTLs for zookeeper).

harlowja

10년 전discuss

Nice handling of the crappy question at the end...

harlowja

10년 전discuss

Same for me; 46.0.1 windows 7 (if authors care to reproduce).

harlowja

10년 전discuss

U may also want to mention that #5 is pretty much violated in all of these if say a nested dict (or really any other object that is by reference) is in default or user.

  >>> x = {'a': {}}
  >>> y = x.copy()
  >>> y['a']['b'] = 'c'
  >>> x
  {'a': {'b': 'c'}}

harlowja

10년 전discuss

FATpython is starting to become some of this.

https://fosdem.org/2016/schedule/event/fat_python/

Submissions

FOSDEM 2016 – FAT Python new static optimizer for CPython

Google bringing container expertise to OpenStack

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