Driving for Uber as an Iraq War Vet(vice.com)
vice.com
Driving for Uber as an Iraq War Vet
https://www.vice.com/read/driving-uber-as-an-iraqi-war-veteran
106 comments
I agree with your statement. I think the clamoring for entitlements and awareness is driven by veterans advocacy groups, not the veteran community as a whole. In my opinion, it's a reaction to the neglect and apathy that veterans of previous wars experienced, most recently the Vietnam War. (If you want to be depressed, read about the maltreatment of WW1 vets in the US.) The veterans groups fight for entitlements because they believe they are subject to revocation as soon as awareness drops.
Through the lens of being a veteran, I find most of it to be overblown, though in the case of the author I think it's perhaps somewhat justified. However, he should admit that his issues aren't systemic; they're personal. His issues are 99% due to psychological issues from his combat service, not a tech-industry imposed Jim Crow Era (the Driving Miss Daisy comment in the article).
I don't think I'd ever comment on a CIB on display, it seems about as appropriate as the proverbial ignorant question, "Did you kill anybody?"
A good half of my friends who returned from combat had significant difficulty fitting into normal American life, and experienced psychological and relationship issues. I wish veterans groups would focus their rhetoric on that specific problem. Pay for servicemembers has increased far beyond parity with civilian jobs for the vast majority of occupational specialties, the Post-9/11 GI Bill truly solves the post-service employment training issue, and the stigma of being a veteran is essentially nonexistent. The hard problem that needs to be focused on is the significant therapy and rehabilitation need for the minority of veterans who actually were in combat.
What gets me is that he's whining about his raw deal as a veteran (pysch issues aside, is nonexistent), but he fails to accept responsibility for his life choices of 1) graduating (for free) with what I presume is a creative writing degree and failing to take internships, 2) failing to live in an affordable city (what's wrong with living in Oakland or Union City and driving over the Bay Bridge?), and 3) lamenting his lack of money as he wastes it at the bar (presumably in SoMa, and expensive).
The reason for the above is not because he's intentionally avoiding reality, it's because veterans often self-segregate in veterans groups. He lives in the TL because that's where his veterans organization operates (originally for Vietnam War vets with a more dire situation than his). Hopefully now that his Vice article has gotten him some more exposure, he'll have more interaction with non-vets and gain some perspective.
Through the lens of being a veteran, I find most of it to be overblown, though in the case of the author I think it's perhaps somewhat justified. However, he should admit that his issues aren't systemic; they're personal. His issues are 99% due to psychological issues from his combat service, not a tech-industry imposed Jim Crow Era (the Driving Miss Daisy comment in the article).
I don't think I'd ever comment on a CIB on display, it seems about as appropriate as the proverbial ignorant question, "Did you kill anybody?"
A good half of my friends who returned from combat had significant difficulty fitting into normal American life, and experienced psychological and relationship issues. I wish veterans groups would focus their rhetoric on that specific problem. Pay for servicemembers has increased far beyond parity with civilian jobs for the vast majority of occupational specialties, the Post-9/11 GI Bill truly solves the post-service employment training issue, and the stigma of being a veteran is essentially nonexistent. The hard problem that needs to be focused on is the significant therapy and rehabilitation need for the minority of veterans who actually were in combat.
What gets me is that he's whining about his raw deal as a veteran (pysch issues aside, is nonexistent), but he fails to accept responsibility for his life choices of 1) graduating (for free) with what I presume is a creative writing degree and failing to take internships, 2) failing to live in an affordable city (what's wrong with living in Oakland or Union City and driving over the Bay Bridge?), and 3) lamenting his lack of money as he wastes it at the bar (presumably in SoMa, and expensive).
The reason for the above is not because he's intentionally avoiding reality, it's because veterans often self-segregate in veterans groups. He lives in the TL because that's where his veterans organization operates (originally for Vietnam War vets with a more dire situation than his). Hopefully now that his Vice article has gotten him some more exposure, he'll have more interaction with non-vets and gain some perspective.
> I think the clamoring for entitlements and awareness is driven by veterans advocacy groups, not the veteran community as a whole. In my opinion, it's a reaction to the neglect and apathy that veterans of previous wars experienced, most recently the Vietnam War.
I think this is true, but kind of missing the recent "veteran outrage" that has been going on in the community. For example, the stolen valor shaming is totally out of control. It's not illegal to parade around in uniform and claim you were a badass - but there are tons of vets out there making name and shame videos and then plastering them around of people that do, claiming that they will call the cops or that the person will go to jail etc...
Same with the recent "furor" over some people wading into the reflecting pool at the WWII memorial, or some kids playing on the Vietnam memorial.
In my opinion it's taking it too far and burning up all the good feedback and positive relations we have had over the past decade.
That is all under the backdrop of probably the most supportive civilian population in recent history. I can't tell you how often I was thanked for my service or stopped and given thumbs up or free stuff when I was in uniform.
I think this is true, but kind of missing the recent "veteran outrage" that has been going on in the community. For example, the stolen valor shaming is totally out of control. It's not illegal to parade around in uniform and claim you were a badass - but there are tons of vets out there making name and shame videos and then plastering them around of people that do, claiming that they will call the cops or that the person will go to jail etc...
Same with the recent "furor" over some people wading into the reflecting pool at the WWII memorial, or some kids playing on the Vietnam memorial.
In my opinion it's taking it too far and burning up all the good feedback and positive relations we have had over the past decade.
That is all under the backdrop of probably the most supportive civilian population in recent history. I can't tell you how often I was thanked for my service or stopped and given thumbs up or free stuff when I was in uniform.
I have to agree that Stolen Valor nonsense got out of hand (although i have say pretending to be a vet is disgusting)
However, even though i have rather ambivalent opinion on military (especially the modern one), mistreatment of monuments regarding human sacrifice is disgraceful.
I am a hardcore atheist but I'd think to me it's as bad as having kids play on an altar to religious people. Just don't do it. Show some token respect, we all would be better off. (I do not refer to the person above, just to whoever does aforementioned stuff!)
I think there is a difference between mistreating a monument and just not having self-awareness.
The way I look at it, if there are kids laughing and playing on a monument, that is a better representation of freedom and security than any amount of pillars or stone could ever represent.
The way I look at it, if there are kids laughing and playing on a monument, that is a better representation of freedom and security than any amount of pillars or stone could ever represent.
I think one of the unfortunate things is that most people don't understand what the military experience is, and how it might help their companies. Veterans should do a better job selling it to help bring awareness too.
Veterans often deserve some fault as well - many don't make good decisions with their life due to some desire, and end up regretting their choices. I've seen many not make every effort to set themselves up for long term success, and often shoot for & encourage short term success, even if it ends up in a long term dead end. Perhaps they are not much different than a lot of the US population in that regard, but wishing for things to be different based on past experience is not going to do anyone any good.
Veterans often deserve some fault as well - many don't make good decisions with their life due to some desire, and end up regretting their choices. I've seen many not make every effort to set themselves up for long term success, and often shoot for & encourage short term success, even if it ends up in a long term dead end. Perhaps they are not much different than a lot of the US population in that regard, but wishing for things to be different based on past experience is not going to do anyone any good.
>Veterans should do a better job selling it to help bring awareness too.
The problem is, there is no good way to do this. A lot of large companies and banks have veteran specific programs to get us in the door, which are great. Aside from those however it's an education game, and educating your potential employer who has no idea that you just got done running a program larger than their organization won't really help.
I think a lot of combat veterans don't understand that going into the private sector after 5 or more years in the military is akin to a software developer trying to get a job on an oil-field. Outside of specific military jobs that translate perfectly - like IT and for people with more time in service to management - it's a wholesale change. From a skills perspective you are at a disadvantage from someone who has been in the industry for those 5 years. It's hard to sell the veteran specific "soft skills" that are hard to impossible to quantify.
A big struggle for me was trying to break into the investor side of the tech world coming straight out of the military. So even though I had been working for years on my startup, had a co-founder, customers and an MVP - I had absolutely no network to raise seed money. I got lucky and hooked up with an Angel group that specifically targets guys like me (Hivers & Strivers Angel fund) and it ended up working out, but even though we passed that first hurdle, since I don't have that deeper network it's still an uphill battle because I am unproven in the tech startup world and my rolodex is very limited.
The problem is, there is no good way to do this. A lot of large companies and banks have veteran specific programs to get us in the door, which are great. Aside from those however it's an education game, and educating your potential employer who has no idea that you just got done running a program larger than their organization won't really help.
I think a lot of combat veterans don't understand that going into the private sector after 5 or more years in the military is akin to a software developer trying to get a job on an oil-field. Outside of specific military jobs that translate perfectly - like IT and for people with more time in service to management - it's a wholesale change. From a skills perspective you are at a disadvantage from someone who has been in the industry for those 5 years. It's hard to sell the veteran specific "soft skills" that are hard to impossible to quantify.
A big struggle for me was trying to break into the investor side of the tech world coming straight out of the military. So even though I had been working for years on my startup, had a co-founder, customers and an MVP - I had absolutely no network to raise seed money. I got lucky and hooked up with an Angel group that specifically targets guys like me (Hivers & Strivers Angel fund) and it ended up working out, but even though we passed that first hurdle, since I don't have that deeper network it's still an uphill battle because I am unproven in the tech startup world and my rolodex is very limited.
Just curious. Is the division between civilians and officers different from the division between civilians and enlisted?
My guess is that it's easier for HN to relate to the vets who have college degrees. And the problems faced by enlisted men are completely alien.
My guess is that it's easier for HN to relate to the vets who have college degrees. And the problems faced by enlisted men are completely alien.
A civilian is someone who is not a uniformed member of the Armed services. There are civilians who work for the branches of the military (Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force) but they do not (typically) wear the military uniform, do not (typically) fall under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, get paid on a different scale and have different legal standing.
Commissioned officers and Enlisted members are two sides of the same coin. Commissioned officers are formally appointed by the president and have certain constitutional provisions applied to them. Junior enlisted members and non-commissioned officers do not have the same constitutional charter. In practice these differences range from marginal to extreme in terms of how the groups interact with each other and the general public.
Interestingly enough, the amount of enlisted and non-commissioned officers with college degrees has never been higher, so it's not really that much of a differentiation anymore. It is however increasingly common with commissioned officers that they will have pursued a masters degree within 6-7 years of commissioning.
Commissioned officers and Enlisted members are two sides of the same coin. Commissioned officers are formally appointed by the president and have certain constitutional provisions applied to them. Junior enlisted members and non-commissioned officers do not have the same constitutional charter. In practice these differences range from marginal to extreme in terms of how the groups interact with each other and the general public.
Interestingly enough, the amount of enlisted and non-commissioned officers with college degrees has never been higher, so it's not really that much of a differentiation anymore. It is however increasingly common with commissioned officers that they will have pursued a masters degree within 6-7 years of commissioning.
Really? I always assumed people needed college degrees to become offers. And enlisted men were ones without.
Also to clarify, I don't mean civilians on a military base. My question is "Is it hard for people like me to relate to enlisted men than the ROTC officers, etc?"
Also to clarify, I don't mean civilians on a military base. My question is "Is it hard for people like me to relate to enlisted men than the ROTC officers, etc?"
Sorry I should clarify: Officers do need a college degree prior to commissioning.
To your question: I don't think so, but it largely depends on the person.
To your question: I don't think so, but it largely depends on the person.
Yikes. Way to betray your brothers who risk their lives for our freedoms. For me, I can only say I'd never have the balls to sign up for the army... These guys do something we can't pay for directly and maintain our standard of living, so we must find other ways to reward them. Certainly when one of them is lonely, I'd hate to think anyone .. especially a fellow veteran, would call it 'whining'.
I feel the same way about teachers, farmers, policemen as well.
I feel the same way about teachers, farmers, policemen as well.
To be clear, having issues with fundamental care of our veterans is not what is in discussion. We should absolutely be outraged at poor care of our defenders military, firefighters or otherwise.
What I object to is the "APPRECIATE ME FOR MY SERVICE" attitude that is running rampant in the vet community.
What I object to is the "APPRECIATE ME FOR MY SERVICE" attitude that is running rampant in the vet community.
Well said, Andrew.
This article propagates the 'veterans as victims' narrative.
And no, I don't want to talk to you either, Uber driver.
This article propagates the 'veterans as victims' narrative.
And no, I don't want to talk to you either, Uber driver.
Wow, what an amazing read. That guy is a great writer. It almost sounded like the narration of film noir.
Anyways, I had no idea that Uber drivers made so much money. $40-$50 an hour! That's incredible. I make the low end of that working as the tech lead of a ~15-person tech startup. I bet that car maintenance takes a big chunk out of his pay but still.
My first reaction to this piece was "what the fuck are you whining about? You make more than most people, and even more than me and my job is way harder than yours!"
Then again, I totally empathize with his alienation from his own job. It's hard, spending the precious hours of your short life on things other than what you're really passionate about. It sucks that our society rewards being a taxi driver more than creative things -- like this guy's amazing writing. I don't know what to do about that, and I feel his pain there.
Anyways, I had no idea that Uber drivers made so much money. $40-$50 an hour! That's incredible. I make the low end of that working as the tech lead of a ~15-person tech startup. I bet that car maintenance takes a big chunk out of his pay but still.
My first reaction to this piece was "what the fuck are you whining about? You make more than most people, and even more than me and my job is way harder than yours!"
Then again, I totally empathize with his alienation from his own job. It's hard, spending the precious hours of your short life on things other than what you're really passionate about. It sucks that our society rewards being a taxi driver more than creative things -- like this guy's amazing writing. I don't know what to do about that, and I feel his pain there.
It's hard, spending the precious hours of your short life on things other than what you're really passionate about
Isn't this true for the vast majority? Most people take jobs not because they're passionate about them, but because they need money to pay bills and buy stuff - simple as that. Some earn more, some earn less, but at the end of the day almost everyone would like to do something else. Even in IT, where wages are high and work is comfortable, I doubt most are passionate about their work - it's a different thing hacking some fun app or game in your spare time and working on some monstrous enterprise software, where you're just a tiny cog doing what you're told to do.
Isn't this true for the vast majority? Most people take jobs not because they're passionate about them, but because they need money to pay bills and buy stuff - simple as that. Some earn more, some earn less, but at the end of the day almost everyone would like to do something else. Even in IT, where wages are high and work is comfortable, I doubt most are passionate about their work - it's a different thing hacking some fun app or game in your spare time and working on some monstrous enterprise software, where you're just a tiny cog doing what you're told to do.
I was actually going to reply to that point, as well. This guy, despite his somewhat unique circumstances (and superb writing) isn't really alone in that he has to do what he needs, however unfulfilling, to get by.
I think about the people who work in fast food chains. Their entire working lives circumscribed by a binder written by people so many levels above them that thinking about it risks vertigo.
Decrease labor costs. Increase productivity per worker. Decrease food prices / increase profit with savings. *Footnote: Make working just attractive enough so that people will apply in sufficient numbers
I think about what kind of life that would be every time I see someone post-teen working in a BurgChickeBoxMcKingBell. Try going through one sometime out in the country, when you're far enough away from a city that there aren't any other jobs. See who's being employed there.
.... What a disgusting system we've created. Writer is right about the tech haves and the have-nots.
PS: BasicIncome
Decrease labor costs. Increase productivity per worker. Decrease food prices / increase profit with savings. *Footnote: Make working just attractive enough so that people will apply in sufficient numbers
I think about what kind of life that would be every time I see someone post-teen working in a BurgChickeBoxMcKingBell. Try going through one sometime out in the country, when you're far enough away from a city that there aren't any other jobs. See who's being employed there.
.... What a disgusting system we've created. Writer is right about the tech haves and the have-nots.
PS: BasicIncome
When I was a kid, I bought a box of thumb tacks at the dollar store. When I got home and was using them, I suddenly got very sad: I started thinking about the people who assembled the tacks and put them in the boxes. Being naïve at that age I assumed everything was done manually, and I just felt awful about people who spent all day doing this just to sell them at the dollar store - they must be paid pennies!
To me, the perversion is creating a system where it's cheaper for the thumb tack manufacturer to employ people in mindless, repetitive, soul-crushing work (no offense intended to the few people out there who love assembling thumb tacks) than to automate the task.
Minimum wage is afaict a "below this wage a person cannot support themselves" barrier.
But we really don't have a "below this level of boredom a human shouldn't be doing the job" metric. (And moreover, I'd cynically quip that it's probably in capital owners' interests to ensure that never happens, thus affording them a cheaper alternative to investing in automation -- even if the price is a substantial portion of a person's life)
Minimum wage is afaict a "below this wage a person cannot support themselves" barrier.
But we really don't have a "below this level of boredom a human shouldn't be doing the job" metric. (And moreover, I'd cynically quip that it's probably in capital owners' interests to ensure that never happens, thus affording them a cheaper alternative to investing in automation -- even if the price is a substantial portion of a person's life)
I sometimes watch How Its Made (well, more so it is a show my father loves so it is what is playing when I'm visiting my parents). There is a lot of automation, but there is almost always someone doing some part of the job that looks really repetitive and boring. I get a bit saddened reflecting on what it is like doing something so repetitive for so much of one's life.
Really, downvotes but no comment? Touch a nerve?
Its easy to make $45/hr 9pm-3am on the weekend. The problem is confusing 6 hours per week with 40 hours per week.
This has occasionally been an issue for me with contracting... hey I got a gig 8 hours/one day per week. Um, ok, great hourly pay, but how am I supposed to feed my family working only 8 hours/week, even if the hourly pay is 2x what I get now?
That's why writing is a good second gig for the article author. No way to make $45 between 10am and 11am Sunday, well, go write something, its not like you're losing fares...
This has occasionally been an issue for me with contracting... hey I got a gig 8 hours/one day per week. Um, ok, great hourly pay, but how am I supposed to feed my family working only 8 hours/week, even if the hourly pay is 2x what I get now?
That's why writing is a good second gig for the article author. No way to make $45 between 10am and 11am Sunday, well, go write something, its not like you're losing fares...
> $40-$50 an hour
No. Especially outside Bay Area. More like $10-$20/h.
No. Especially outside Bay Area. More like $10-$20/h.
> I had no idea that Uber drivers made so much money. $40-$50 an hour
He said he didn't make that much.
He said he didn't make that much.
The article said...
> According to my weekly reports from Uber emails, I average anywhere from $40 to $50 an hour doing this shit—by my count, it's less.
You know, when I read that I thought he meant "it's less" in the sense of "It's not worth that much to me" rather than literally, "Uber's average wage statistics are incorrect." But I'm probably totally wrong.
If I'm wrong, it's weird that Uber's calculations are wrong there. I wonder if they're like, not calculating time spent waiting for a fare?
> According to my weekly reports from Uber emails, I average anywhere from $40 to $50 an hour doing this shit—by my count, it's less.
You know, when I read that I thought he meant "it's less" in the sense of "It's not worth that much to me" rather than literally, "Uber's average wage statistics are incorrect." But I'm probably totally wrong.
If I'm wrong, it's weird that Uber's calculations are wrong there. I wonder if they're like, not calculating time spent waiting for a fare?
From what I understand its revenue, not profit.
Uber just adds up the transactions that you've been a part of.
Then they take their 25% fee, then the driver has to subtract whatever they paid in insurance + gas + tolls + maintenance + amenities (food or water). For most (who can't buy a car outright) they have to pay their car loan/lease payments.
Then to really calculate "take home pay", like the rest of us, you have to subtract taxes. Another 25%-35% depending on state+federal tax brackets.
P.S. Hopefully they do their taxes correctly. I imagine if you did it as a "small business" you could subtract all of your expenses first and even subtract depreciation of your capital (depreciation of your car), then do your taxes on the far smaller amount rather than on $50 per hour gross income. Honestly, if they weren't curious enough to educate themselves about their taxes, I don't even know how it would be profitable.
Uber just adds up the transactions that you've been a part of.
Then they take their 25% fee, then the driver has to subtract whatever they paid in insurance + gas + tolls + maintenance + amenities (food or water). For most (who can't buy a car outright) they have to pay their car loan/lease payments.
Then to really calculate "take home pay", like the rest of us, you have to subtract taxes. Another 25%-35% depending on state+federal tax brackets.
P.S. Hopefully they do their taxes correctly. I imagine if you did it as a "small business" you could subtract all of your expenses first and even subtract depreciation of your capital (depreciation of your car), then do your taxes on the far smaller amount rather than on $50 per hour gross income. Honestly, if they weren't curious enough to educate themselves about their taxes, I don't even know how it would be profitable.
But you cost your employer almost twice that. Benefits, health care, insurance, supplies, furniture, equipment etc.
"If it makes you feel any better", Google seems to be pretty close to making driving a taxi worth almost nothing.
How so? Do you mean driverless cars or something else they are working on?
He might refer to self-driving cars.
Also relevant https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/uber-ceo-tesla-sell-half-milli...
Also relevant https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/uber-ceo-tesla-sell-half-milli...
society rewards being a taxi driver more than creative things
The best creative people make a lot more than the best tax drivers.
"Society" does reward them.
The best creative people make a lot more than the best tax drivers.
"Society" does reward them.
When people call taxi they don't hope to see interesting human to talk with, they need a car to move them from point A to point B. This driver expects his clients to be wondered about him or his life, when they don't expect it and often don't want to spend their time to be somebody's psychotherapist.
It's sad he is so lonely, but taxi is not that place which should fix it - maybe dating sites.
It's sad he is so lonely, but taxi is not that place which should fix it - maybe dating sites.
I think you've mis-read the tone, or just plain don't understand/have experience of the military mindset.
This isn't a pity piece, he not expecting something from his passengers or expecting them to wonder about him. In fact, I'd say that's the whole point of the piece - how he knows he an outsider, a nobody in a world of somebodies, a dispassionate observer, one who recognises his own lack of humanity to his charges:
> A robot could do my fucking job
He's grateful for the job, grateful for the lifeline and merely telling the objective story of an outsider in a different world.
> Where I live, people are already dead. But at night, I pick up people with lives, and money in their pockets, places to go, things to do, people to see.
And yet, he reminds us throughout that people are fuck ups no matter their monetary wealth or 'social standing':
>One pick-up I had was outside a restaurant in Hayes Valley. I had my hazards on while I waited patiently, observing them passionately kiss each another. They kissed as if they were in love. It reminded me of the way I kissed, when I too was in love. Their goodbye took forever and when she finally got in my car, she pulled out her cell phone.
>"Hey honey, how's it going? Oh, it was boring, I wanted to leave the whole time. How are the kids? Good... Oh, remember that one coworker I told you about? I just found out he's been sleeping with all the associates... he's married too, I like his wife... he's a good guy..." I'm sure he is.
I think the piece is fascinating, not least because I've felt the sting of invisibility myself, but don't go mistaking it as a pining lament to be one of the chosen ones or that he's calling on his passengers to be his psychologist.
This isn't a pity piece, he not expecting something from his passengers or expecting them to wonder about him. In fact, I'd say that's the whole point of the piece - how he knows he an outsider, a nobody in a world of somebodies, a dispassionate observer, one who recognises his own lack of humanity to his charges:
> A robot could do my fucking job
He's grateful for the job, grateful for the lifeline and merely telling the objective story of an outsider in a different world.
> Where I live, people are already dead. But at night, I pick up people with lives, and money in their pockets, places to go, things to do, people to see.
And yet, he reminds us throughout that people are fuck ups no matter their monetary wealth or 'social standing':
>One pick-up I had was outside a restaurant in Hayes Valley. I had my hazards on while I waited patiently, observing them passionately kiss each another. They kissed as if they were in love. It reminded me of the way I kissed, when I too was in love. Their goodbye took forever and when she finally got in my car, she pulled out her cell phone.
>"Hey honey, how's it going? Oh, it was boring, I wanted to leave the whole time. How are the kids? Good... Oh, remember that one coworker I told you about? I just found out he's been sleeping with all the associates... he's married too, I like his wife... he's a good guy..." I'm sure he is.
I think the piece is fascinating, not least because I've felt the sting of invisibility myself, but don't go mistaking it as a pining lament to be one of the chosen ones or that he's calling on his passengers to be his psychologist.
> he not expecting something from his passengers
That the author is passing judgement on the non-talkers shows that he is expecting something from them. Like when he talks of his Combat Infantry Badge, and the only two options available are 'not notice' or 'notice and not care'. Plenty of people would notice and care a lot, but not want to get into a discussion that they think would lead to an argument. He's basically expecting to get his ego soothed with the medal.
It's a well-written piece, but he is projecting a lot of motivation onto people that doesn't necessarily exist. For example, when I catch a cab, I don't like to talk to the driver. It's not because I think they're a robot or the 'hired help' or beneath me or whatever. It's because I loathe small talk, and most cab conversations are exactly the same. There's also a fair chance of getting into a conversation with a passionate bigot, which is never fun. The last taxi I had included a generally one-sided conversation where the driver kept trying to suggest-sell a brothel visit to me. Frankly, cab conversations are just not that interesting. Bit of an aside there, but I would guess a lot of people feel the same.
That the author is passing judgement on the non-talkers shows that he is expecting something from them. Like when he talks of his Combat Infantry Badge, and the only two options available are 'not notice' or 'notice and not care'. Plenty of people would notice and care a lot, but not want to get into a discussion that they think would lead to an argument. He's basically expecting to get his ego soothed with the medal.
It's a well-written piece, but he is projecting a lot of motivation onto people that doesn't necessarily exist. For example, when I catch a cab, I don't like to talk to the driver. It's not because I think they're a robot or the 'hired help' or beneath me or whatever. It's because I loathe small talk, and most cab conversations are exactly the same. There's also a fair chance of getting into a conversation with a passionate bigot, which is never fun. The last taxi I had included a generally one-sided conversation where the driver kept trying to suggest-sell a brothel visit to me. Frankly, cab conversations are just not that interesting. Bit of an aside there, but I would guess a lot of people feel the same.
> most cab conversations are exactly the same
I know you said "most" but I have had plenty of conversations with cab drivers that I remember years into the future.
Two examples:
- a very elderly man picked us up in London, he was cheerful and chatty in his 1940s-war-broadcast-style accent, turns out he spent a chunk of his life as an engineer in what you might call "frontier" countries. So many stories. He had plenty of cash, but drove to chat with strangers and because he couldn't stand doing nothing.
- we got picked up in Duxton Hill in Singapore by a chap in his 60s, whose tone was a lot calmer and more attentive than your average "so where you from-aaaah?" happy taxi uncle. He made two fortunes from nothing, one per Asian boom, then retired and travelled the world with his wife for a decade. He got very bored of the luxury life, and also took up driving to meet new people and collect stories about humans. Singapore being great for this.
There's plenty of occasions where, if you spend a bit of attention on the driver, you unearth either life stories worth preserving and thinking about, glimpses of a completely different world, or just fun stories where you wonder how much was made up.
I learnt a lot about his community in a 25 minute ride with an Indonesian driver having his 8th kid (all boys, amazingly) and working Uber in his spare time from working on oil rigs. A Polish man gave me a glimpse of the harsh life as a low-earning immigrant in a major European city, their main preoccupation in life seemed to be which alcohol to buy that was the cheapest yet still relatively drinkable. A driver was missing a couple fingers and complained about how Africans and Pakistans slept 6-aside in the cabin he used to have to himself in the "golden days" of the merchant navy (I never got the story about the fingers). He also had 6 wives in as many cities (none the one he lived in now).
I'm going to miss the human drivers.
I know you said "most" but I have had plenty of conversations with cab drivers that I remember years into the future.
Two examples:
- a very elderly man picked us up in London, he was cheerful and chatty in his 1940s-war-broadcast-style accent, turns out he spent a chunk of his life as an engineer in what you might call "frontier" countries. So many stories. He had plenty of cash, but drove to chat with strangers and because he couldn't stand doing nothing.
- we got picked up in Duxton Hill in Singapore by a chap in his 60s, whose tone was a lot calmer and more attentive than your average "so where you from-aaaah?" happy taxi uncle. He made two fortunes from nothing, one per Asian boom, then retired and travelled the world with his wife for a decade. He got very bored of the luxury life, and also took up driving to meet new people and collect stories about humans. Singapore being great for this.
There's plenty of occasions where, if you spend a bit of attention on the driver, you unearth either life stories worth preserving and thinking about, glimpses of a completely different world, or just fun stories where you wonder how much was made up.
I learnt a lot about his community in a 25 minute ride with an Indonesian driver having his 8th kid (all boys, amazingly) and working Uber in his spare time from working on oil rigs. A Polish man gave me a glimpse of the harsh life as a low-earning immigrant in a major European city, their main preoccupation in life seemed to be which alcohol to buy that was the cheapest yet still relatively drinkable. A driver was missing a couple fingers and complained about how Africans and Pakistans slept 6-aside in the cabin he used to have to himself in the "golden days" of the merchant navy (I never got the story about the fingers). He also had 6 wives in as many cities (none the one he lived in now).
I'm going to miss the human drivers.
Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge people who do like to talk, and more power to you. I just loathe small talk, and find the signal-to-noise ratio too low to do it with cab drivers or other people you spend only a few minutes with out of circumstance. I'm just trying to provide an angle on why some people don't like talking to drivers, as the article felt like it was unduly blaming them for not entertaining the driver enough.
To be honest, when I have been forced to use a Taxi; I honestly don't want to talk to anyone. I don't want to driver. I don't talk on my cell phone. I don't talk to the person I'm usually with. I do talk to Taxi Drivers if they initiate the conversation, but don't mind driving in silence.
I figure this driver has lived enough, and the last thing he/she needs is listening to me yak on about my pathetic life. They are paid to drive--not entertain, nor provide free therapy, or expect to know anything other than how to get to my destination. (That goes double for Bartenders too!). I don't believe, since I paid for this taxi, I have the right to do, and say whatever I want in that back seat. Noise pollution is real. Uber drivers should have to listen to us yak?
This Uber driver actually sounds like he wants a little conversation? That's fine--doesn't the Uber app put a little bit of pressure on the driver with their rating system? I honestly couldn't imagine having to be nice, and chit/chatty to some snotty, ego centric, future Titan of the business world? Oh yea, what's up with expecting the driver to offer you a free beverage? "The Uber driver is there to move you--period." Get in the car, shut up, and don't look for things to criticize when you fill out that ridiculous rating system. (I understand the need for a rating system, but it should be "Did they get me there safety?" Personally, I see no reason to make the ratings public? Uber can fire the driver if they don't move people to their destinations safety? (Maybe it's just me, but I'm tired of this whole rating thing anyways. Everyone has become a critic, and has a platform that makes it easy to tell the world what you think, or feel. Wether Uber, EBay, Businesses on Yelp; do we need public rating systems? Why can't these companies have internal rating systems? Rating systems that just fire an employee if they don't meet company standards? Ebay could ban a Seller if they are a bad Appple? Yelp could refuse to list a business that had a bunch of negative reviews? Uber could fire the driver if they had bad reviews? Call me old fashioned, but I was taught to not expect people to kiss my ass in order to get a favorable review, especially with a lousey job like working for Uber. What I'm trying to say is I'm used to just rating a service with my wallet? Especially business/services that aren't that important. When it comes to rating a Doctor, lawyer, or business that requires a contract or any other vital service, I'm all for detailed detailed reviews. A bad doctor, or lawyer can ruin you life. These two professions seem to be reviewed to least? We love to rate the service industry--the bottom rung of the service industry?
Sorry, got off track. I feel this young veteran is just venting? He sounds like he's just disenchanted with life, and his circumstances? Does he have a right to be a bit disappointed; a resounding Yes! He had PTSD. He has a mental condition that makes functioning in this brutal world difficult. He signed up to serve his country, and maybe learn a trade? The reality is the military doesn't do much for the average grunt.
I always though if I had a kid who was thinking about joining the military in order to protect their country, or learn a trade; I would drive them Tiburon, CA on a bright sunny day. I would let him/her see just how care free the 1 percenter's live. I would make them sit on a bench, with a full view of the show. I would encourage them to listen to what these people talk about--what they complain about. I would point out the people whom drive $400,000 plus cars. I would keep them there all day. On the way home, my only question would be, "Would you risk your life for these people?"
If the guy driving for Uber reads this; I feel your pain. Try to make friends with people who care--they are out there. You are not alone with your with the horrid symptomology of PTSD. I have suffered in life with a similar affliction. I know it's difficult stomaching some people, but don't assume they are all narcisstic rich kids. Sometimes, it does seem like no one gives a dam, unless it directly benefits them, or their family/contacts in some way. Some people do care. Would you really want a woman who judged you for driving for Uber? Would you want to be around anyone who judges you on how much money you make? Sorry folks, but my generation(the 70's) didn't judge a person on how thick their wad was--we cared about how you made(ethically) your money, and just how compassionate, or caring you were. We didn't say it, but we despised the filthy lucre. The Lucre seems lionized these days? I don't get it?
As to the way we treat our veterans; well I find it appalling on all levels. America shouldn't have one homeless vet--period, unless it's by choice. We need to build low income, or free housing for these individuals on a massive scale. We did it after WW2? If the particular veteran doesn't need free room, it could go to a homeless civilian? Most veterans won't need a free room, but it should be made available?
If you respond to this post--fine. I never come back to a post. I don't think I said anything that controversial?
This Uber driver actually sounds like he wants a little conversation? That's fine--doesn't the Uber app put a little bit of pressure on the driver with their rating system? I honestly couldn't imagine having to be nice, and chit/chatty to some snotty, ego centric, future Titan of the business world? Oh yea, what's up with expecting the driver to offer you a free beverage? "The Uber driver is there to move you--period." Get in the car, shut up, and don't look for things to criticize when you fill out that ridiculous rating system. (I understand the need for a rating system, but it should be "Did they get me there safety?" Personally, I see no reason to make the ratings public? Uber can fire the driver if they don't move people to their destinations safety? (Maybe it's just me, but I'm tired of this whole rating thing anyways. Everyone has become a critic, and has a platform that makes it easy to tell the world what you think, or feel. Wether Uber, EBay, Businesses on Yelp; do we need public rating systems? Why can't these companies have internal rating systems? Rating systems that just fire an employee if they don't meet company standards? Ebay could ban a Seller if they are a bad Appple? Yelp could refuse to list a business that had a bunch of negative reviews? Uber could fire the driver if they had bad reviews? Call me old fashioned, but I was taught to not expect people to kiss my ass in order to get a favorable review, especially with a lousey job like working for Uber. What I'm trying to say is I'm used to just rating a service with my wallet? Especially business/services that aren't that important. When it comes to rating a Doctor, lawyer, or business that requires a contract or any other vital service, I'm all for detailed detailed reviews. A bad doctor, or lawyer can ruin you life. These two professions seem to be reviewed to least? We love to rate the service industry--the bottom rung of the service industry?
Sorry, got off track. I feel this young veteran is just venting? He sounds like he's just disenchanted with life, and his circumstances? Does he have a right to be a bit disappointed; a resounding Yes! He had PTSD. He has a mental condition that makes functioning in this brutal world difficult. He signed up to serve his country, and maybe learn a trade? The reality is the military doesn't do much for the average grunt.
I always though if I had a kid who was thinking about joining the military in order to protect their country, or learn a trade; I would drive them Tiburon, CA on a bright sunny day. I would let him/her see just how care free the 1 percenter's live. I would make them sit on a bench, with a full view of the show. I would encourage them to listen to what these people talk about--what they complain about. I would point out the people whom drive $400,000 plus cars. I would keep them there all day. On the way home, my only question would be, "Would you risk your life for these people?"
If the guy driving for Uber reads this; I feel your pain. Try to make friends with people who care--they are out there. You are not alone with your with the horrid symptomology of PTSD. I have suffered in life with a similar affliction. I know it's difficult stomaching some people, but don't assume they are all narcisstic rich kids. Sometimes, it does seem like no one gives a dam, unless it directly benefits them, or their family/contacts in some way. Some people do care. Would you really want a woman who judged you for driving for Uber? Would you want to be around anyone who judges you on how much money you make? Sorry folks, but my generation(the 70's) didn't judge a person on how thick their wad was--we cared about how you made(ethically) your money, and just how compassionate, or caring you were. We didn't say it, but we despised the filthy lucre. The Lucre seems lionized these days? I don't get it?
As to the way we treat our veterans; well I find it appalling on all levels. America shouldn't have one homeless vet--period, unless it's by choice. We need to build low income, or free housing for these individuals on a massive scale. We did it after WW2? If the particular veteran doesn't need free room, it could go to a homeless civilian? Most veterans won't need a free room, but it should be made available?
If you respond to this post--fine. I never come back to a post. I don't think I said anything that controversial?
>That the author is passing judgement on the non-talkers shows that he is expecting something from them.
In fact you are judging the writer through the window of your own experience. You see judgement, but he didn't actually judge anyone.
What the writer did was comment on behaviour, about how people didn't notice the thing that was of pivotal importance in his life but instead the black and white version of the Uber logo, something unusual yet familiar to their own.
He's really just making a comment on behaviour rather than a judgement on human nature. He's highlighting how we tend to be drawn to things that are important to ourselves and not look to what others might be displaying that are of importance to them.
I get the overall impression the writer is a man who knows himself and his lot in life. He's under no illusion about his utility to Uber as a PR piece for instance. There might be a twinge of bitterness under it all but the piece seems quite careful to avoid that and instead reveals a man resigned to his current situation but so self aware as to not be a prisoner to it.
In fact you are judging the writer through the window of your own experience. You see judgement, but he didn't actually judge anyone.
What the writer did was comment on behaviour, about how people didn't notice the thing that was of pivotal importance in his life but instead the black and white version of the Uber logo, something unusual yet familiar to their own.
He's really just making a comment on behaviour rather than a judgement on human nature. He's highlighting how we tend to be drawn to things that are important to ourselves and not look to what others might be displaying that are of importance to them.
I get the overall impression the writer is a man who knows himself and his lot in life. He's under no illusion about his utility to Uber as a PR piece for instance. There might be a twinge of bitterness under it all but the piece seems quite careful to avoid that and instead reveals a man resigned to his current situation but so self aware as to not be a prisoner to it.
Where did I say that I wasn't judging him? Of course I'm judging him, just like you and aaronem are judging my comment and I was judging yours. The point of my first paragraph was a counter to your comment, not the article. While I agree that he sees himself as an outsider, I disagree that he is expecting nothing from passengers.
And, as I said, he considers the non-conversation about his medal to equate to either not noticing or not caring, which definitely aren't the only options on the table. He's a bit hurt that no-one wants to engage with him about it, so the only reasons he allows are 'uncaring strangers'. Throughout, while he considers himself an outsider, he's miffed that people aren't engaging with him... but I never really felt that he was understanding where the passengers' motivations were.
And, as I said, he considers the non-conversation about his medal to equate to either not noticing or not caring, which definitely aren't the only options on the table. He's a bit hurt that no-one wants to engage with him about it, so the only reasons he allows are 'uncaring strangers'. Throughout, while he considers himself an outsider, he's miffed that people aren't engaging with him... but I never really felt that he was understanding where the passengers' motivations were.
You claim he isn't passing judgment by pointing out he is commenting on behavior; but then you follow that up with his interpretation of that behavior, which is a judgment.
I also think he happens to have made the wrong judgment. People talk about the Uber badge not because it is familiar or important to them, but because it is a conversation starter that is safe. A conversation about a medal earned during war time is not a "safe" conversation. It can lead to a lot of uncomfortable places.
I also think he happens to have made the wrong judgment. People talk about the Uber badge not because it is familiar or important to them, but because it is a conversation starter that is safe. A conversation about a medal earned during war time is not a "safe" conversation. It can lead to a lot of uncomfortable places.
aaronem(1)
>> ...don't understand/have experience of the military mindset.
I think this describes where I am now. I just don't fully understand where they're coming from, because I have little experience of it. And so sometimes ex-military personnel can seem to me to be un-necessarily confrontational/combatitive in their approach to life and people.
Can you (or anyone else reading this) recommend some good reading material to help understand the position of current-generation military veterans?
I think this describes where I am now. I just don't fully understand where they're coming from, because I have little experience of it. And so sometimes ex-military personnel can seem to me to be un-necessarily confrontational/combatitive in their approach to life and people.
Can you (or anyone else reading this) recommend some good reading material to help understand the position of current-generation military veterans?
I'm relatively confident I can, even as an outsider, give you some insight on their situation. All my closest friends were in the military in different branches even and they all shared a pretty similar story.
They spend years of their life excluded to mostly just people in their team. They chant words of brotherhood and tell tales of hardships and emotional struggle. They daily reaffirm to each other that their only hope for life is to rely on their brothers inside of this team they are on. They are given uniforms, they are given mottos and they are regularly put through emotionally and physically demanding situations. This is just the training phase.
The sign-up for such a job is promised acts heroism and tales for the grandkids, but then after all that hard training and attitude altering for this promised adventure, you end up sitting on your ass and doing mundane crap in another country. In an attempt to keep your dreams relevant you start making up hardships and talking about your brothers who died in combat (usually people they've barely even met) and then you come home and find out people don't think you're quite the hero you we're promised you would be.
You come home and find employers pissed they had to make special accommodations for you and you come home expecting people to pat you on the back. You come home with promises of bonuses you never got because the military lied to you and the VA doesn't give a shit about you.
You joined up as a bright eyed young man looking for adventure and spent so much time being fed that bullshit that when you come back home it's hard to cope with the fact so many people lied to you.
They spend years of their life excluded to mostly just people in their team. They chant words of brotherhood and tell tales of hardships and emotional struggle. They daily reaffirm to each other that their only hope for life is to rely on their brothers inside of this team they are on. They are given uniforms, they are given mottos and they are regularly put through emotionally and physically demanding situations. This is just the training phase.
The sign-up for such a job is promised acts heroism and tales for the grandkids, but then after all that hard training and attitude altering for this promised adventure, you end up sitting on your ass and doing mundane crap in another country. In an attempt to keep your dreams relevant you start making up hardships and talking about your brothers who died in combat (usually people they've barely even met) and then you come home and find out people don't think you're quite the hero you we're promised you would be.
You come home and find employers pissed they had to make special accommodations for you and you come home expecting people to pat you on the back. You come home with promises of bonuses you never got because the military lied to you and the VA doesn't give a shit about you.
You joined up as a bright eyed young man looking for adventure and spent so much time being fed that bullshit that when you come back home it's hard to cope with the fact so many people lied to you.
Based on your comment below, tool, it appears you have a real axe to grind.
"So I'm supposed to pay tax dollars for your salary and then give up my seat on a plane because you're working just like the rest of us?"
Your 'closest friends in the military' are giving you a skewed view of reality, and I am sorry for it.
1)It sounds like your friends were not in combat so their experiences are not comparable to the author's experiences. BTW, the author plays into the narrative of 'veterans are victims' perfectly.
2) If your friends are fabricating their relationships with servicemen who were killed, it sounds like they will fabricate anything they tell you.
3) The military is like any other organization, with good employees and less than good employees. Your friends appear to fall into the latter category.
4) In my experience, there is a population of service members who got to do what they signed up to do (pull triggers, of course) and who have reintegrated into society such that you would not know that they served, nor would they advertise that fact. I believe that these 'good employees' comprise the majority of veterans but they aren't a vocal group (unlike the author) so you will probably not hear their opinions.
"So I'm supposed to pay tax dollars for your salary and then give up my seat on a plane because you're working just like the rest of us?"
Your 'closest friends in the military' are giving you a skewed view of reality, and I am sorry for it.
1)It sounds like your friends were not in combat so their experiences are not comparable to the author's experiences. BTW, the author plays into the narrative of 'veterans are victims' perfectly.
2) If your friends are fabricating their relationships with servicemen who were killed, it sounds like they will fabricate anything they tell you.
3) The military is like any other organization, with good employees and less than good employees. Your friends appear to fall into the latter category.
4) In my experience, there is a population of service members who got to do what they signed up to do (pull triggers, of course) and who have reintegrated into society such that you would not know that they served, nor would they advertise that fact. I believe that these 'good employees' comprise the majority of veterans but they aren't a vocal group (unlike the author) so you will probably not hear their opinions.
It's interesting how easily I can point out the willing bias in both of our comments. Either way, you're probably right about the majority of veterans doing just fine. That's why I lead with the qualifier of veterans who lead with their title. No one leads introductions with "I used to service vehicles.", except in very relevant situations. While being a veteran for some people (as you say likely a small minority) is a token to deserved respect.
"I didn't fight for your freedoms so you could do XYZ" is not an uncommon phrase on social media for me. I've never heard "I didn't build houses for 20 years so city council could draft up unsafe regulations" or anything resembling the veterans mantra.
"I didn't fight for your freedoms so you could do XYZ" is not an uncommon phrase on social media for me. I've never heard "I didn't build houses for 20 years so city council could draft up unsafe regulations" or anything resembling the veterans mantra.
I'm not sure where you heard this, but the military experience is not your exaggerated guestimate. Plenty understand what their chosen jobs entail, and the possibilities are. Plenty also understand that nobody owes them everything, and it is all about what value can be provided now.
I am in the process of getting admin separated from the Marine Corps as a result of a bureaucracy circle I was put in when changing units, but I have no reason to slam the military, especially since it is highly unlikely to affect my career. It was a great experience, even if I never got to deploy (I am a reserve infantryman). I only had an issue with one employer holding something against me despite me being completely transparent about having reserve duties. Otherwise, they were perfectly accommodating.
If anything, the military service should instill in people to not take anything for granted - at least, that was my experience in the Marine Corps. Hard work never changes, inside the Corps or outside, and the mentality is to work harder to impress, since no one can fault you for showing tremendous work ethic.
I am in the process of getting admin separated from the Marine Corps as a result of a bureaucracy circle I was put in when changing units, but I have no reason to slam the military, especially since it is highly unlikely to affect my career. It was a great experience, even if I never got to deploy (I am a reserve infantryman). I only had an issue with one employer holding something against me despite me being completely transparent about having reserve duties. Otherwise, they were perfectly accommodating.
If anything, the military service should instill in people to not take anything for granted - at least, that was my experience in the Marine Corps. Hard work never changes, inside the Corps or outside, and the mentality is to work harder to impress, since no one can fault you for showing tremendous work ethic.
On Killing by Dave Grossman is a little outdated, but still an excellent read about how the military conditions soldiers to become killers. I'd strongly recommend it.
Maybe a professional therapist plus friends and family would be better than randoms.
Are therapists expensive?
Hopefully they are covered by the medical system.
from the VA? nope, you get more drugs than is wise after you wait over a year for the paperwork.
At this point, closing all the VA centers and paying for the same medical insurance that Congress gets for our veterans would be cheaper and better.
A lot of the problems is the US's approach (or lack thereof) to Mental Health issues. We attack symbols instead of dealing with the actual problem that we have some folks with broken brains. Some of those folks are veterans and the US needs to deal with the breakage. The current system is a disaster. Lord help our Native American Veterans who not only get to deal with the VA but also IHS.
At this point, closing all the VA centers and paying for the same medical insurance that Congress gets for our veterans would be cheaper and better.
A lot of the problems is the US's approach (or lack thereof) to Mental Health issues. We attack symbols instead of dealing with the actual problem that we have some folks with broken brains. Some of those folks are veterans and the US needs to deal with the breakage. The current system is a disaster. Lord help our Native American Veterans who not only get to deal with the VA but also IHS.
Did you not read the part about what it's like to try to get benefits through the VA? World War II was the last time the United States gave anything like a genuine damn about their expended soldiers; they've never given less of one than they do today. Why else would so many have no better option than to work for a company which plainly regards its human drivers as nothing more or less than an eminently disposable means of bootstrapping to the point where robot cars are practicable?
God forbid we should actually interact with our fellow humans.
I guess the next step down this path is to replace waiters etc with robots - again reducing the amount you have to interact with other humans.
When I get in a taxi, I actually enjoy talking to the driver, asking about the local area, the news, and making both our days a tiny bit more interesting.
As the world population increases, and cities grow and grow I can only see this getting worse - millions of humans bunched together, and all of them scared to talk to each other.
(In case you hadn't guessed I'm not a city person)
I guess the next step down this path is to replace waiters etc with robots - again reducing the amount you have to interact with other humans.
When I get in a taxi, I actually enjoy talking to the driver, asking about the local area, the news, and making both our days a tiny bit more interesting.
As the world population increases, and cities grow and grow I can only see this getting worse - millions of humans bunched together, and all of them scared to talk to each other.
(In case you hadn't guessed I'm not a city person)
I find that it depends quite heavily on the city in question. I live in Boston, where a lot of folks do generally keep to themselves, and it does suck sometimes (if I could get a good gig in a city that wasn't worse--hello, New York, hello, San Francisco--I would), but there are plenty of cities that emphatically don't feel this way. Portland, Oregon comes to mind. Both Dublin and Galway, in Ireland, too.
Wow, that is a great read. It hits on a lot of points about our society these days.
Though I was surprised to read that very few people talk to him. I always chat up the taxi or uber or lyft drivers. You will meet the most fascinating of people.
The Nigerian Uber driver who also runs a West African Chamber of Commerce to facilitate trade and business among the local immigrant population. The motorhead Uber driver who explained to me how to drive a motorcycle from Atlantic City to Philadelphia in under 45 minutes. The Lyft driver who was in school getting a masters degree in physics. The taxi driver who is a fanatical Chelsea fan and almost comes to the bar with you on a Sunday morning to watch the games, but can't quite do it because the last time he did that they lost.
Though I was surprised to read that very few people talk to him. I always chat up the taxi or uber or lyft drivers. You will meet the most fascinating of people.
The Nigerian Uber driver who also runs a West African Chamber of Commerce to facilitate trade and business among the local immigrant population. The motorhead Uber driver who explained to me how to drive a motorcycle from Atlantic City to Philadelphia in under 45 minutes. The Lyft driver who was in school getting a masters degree in physics. The taxi driver who is a fanatical Chelsea fan and almost comes to the bar with you on a Sunday morning to watch the games, but can't quite do it because the last time he did that they lost.
> Though I was surprised to read that very few people talk to him. I always chat up the taxi or uber or lyft drivers. You will meet the most fascinating of people.
I'm an introvert. I don't particularly want to talk to people. There are times when I'll specifically take the subway, even when a cab would make more sense, just so I can be alone and read a book or listen to a podcast or something.
On my last trip, I took about six rides, and talked to all but one. One conversation was fantastic, one was kinda fun, and the rest were just boring conversations I've already forgotten. And I consider that particular trip, with its ~20% "success" rate an outlier.
There are days where I don't want to meet a fascinating person, but just want to get from point A to point B.
I'm an introvert. I don't particularly want to talk to people. There are times when I'll specifically take the subway, even when a cab would make more sense, just so I can be alone and read a book or listen to a podcast or something.
On my last trip, I took about six rides, and talked to all but one. One conversation was fantastic, one was kinda fun, and the rest were just boring conversations I've already forgotten. And I consider that particular trip, with its ~20% "success" rate an outlier.
There are days where I don't want to meet a fascinating person, but just want to get from point A to point B.
> Most of the time I'm completely invisible to the people I drive. Perhaps we're all conditioned not to speak to the hired help.
... or to strangers.
... or to strangers.
Sure, because we're all six years old and walking home from school.
What is the use of this comment? To ridicule him? It looks like (seeing your other comments) you are just angry because people are criticizing the driver justifying why they would not talk to him. Maybe they are in the wrong, but you are too agressive and your message will not get through.
[deleted]
It's a good companion piece to the Fred Wilson blog post on the Gig Economy: if we took care of our veterans, if we treated poor people like we want to be treated, if we didn't make rules for the economy that let wealth grow at the expense of the poor: then Uber couldn't exist in their current business plan.
Saying "at least Uber lets people make some money" is an excuse for exploitation. It may be true, it may be better than nothing, but it's not actually a good solution.
Saying "at least Uber lets people make some money" is an excuse for exploitation. It may be true, it may be better than nothing, but it's not actually a good solution.
It's only exploitation if you define it as such. Uber is a business (and if they weren't, then I at least wouldn't be interested in them) - they voluntarily give people money for voluntarily performing a task for them - what a concept. They like to hire vets because: 1) there are tax breaks, 2) it's a marketing point, 3) vets have already proven themselves to some degree. But point one is the most impactful - tax incentives are the self-abuse zits of our existence - you have to address them, but they only exist to balance out some other issue of complication.
Being a vet doesn't make him particularly special - there are 20 million of us for the VA to ignore, after all. Any solution that puts the $160 billion annual budget of the VA and $60 billion DOD health budget into non-political hands is a non starter - and giving up political control doesn't happen in civilized society, especially one where vets vote for one party 20 points more than the other - there's no particular pressure on either party to fix that - one party doesn't appeal to most vets for a myriad of reasons, and the other has already captured those votes in spite of their general indifference.
The "Gig Economy" exists because of the complications of doing it any other way, and is the only perturbation likely to get us off whatever local maxima our ever-increasing bureaucratic approach to life has captured us on.
Being a vet doesn't make him particularly special - there are 20 million of us for the VA to ignore, after all. Any solution that puts the $160 billion annual budget of the VA and $60 billion DOD health budget into non-political hands is a non starter - and giving up political control doesn't happen in civilized society, especially one where vets vote for one party 20 points more than the other - there's no particular pressure on either party to fix that - one party doesn't appeal to most vets for a myriad of reasons, and the other has already captured those votes in spite of their general indifference.
The "Gig Economy" exists because of the complications of doing it any other way, and is the only perturbation likely to get us off whatever local maxima our ever-increasing bureaucratic approach to life has captured us on.
Why do you think Uber couldn't function without signing up poor drivers (veterans or otherwise)?
Hard to judge anyone's economic circumstances from a 15 minute ride, but anecdotally most of my drivers have seemed to be folks with available hours and an available car looking to make some extra money. Never heard anyone describe Uber as something they were forced into by circumstance.
Hard to judge anyone's economic circumstances from a 15 minute ride, but anecdotally most of my drivers have seemed to be folks with available hours and an available car looking to make some extra money. Never heard anyone describe Uber as something they were forced into by circumstance.
I know someone who works a marketing/sales job, they're making enough and saving enough to afford a condo in the near future. They also do some uber driving. It isn't always poor people, it's people who want to make some extra cash and who want more flexible schedules.
You know what I think every time I see an article like this?
Did you really go to Iraq? Because the Iraq that I saw made me thankful as shit that I basically won the lottery of living in the developed world. Got some first world problems? Who cares. I have a CIB, too. But you know what I hate almost more than anything? People that shim their CIB into a conversation hoping to add more weight to their words.
Life is rough for the vast majority of people on the planet. Take your experiences in hand and be thankful you made it out of that shithole alive.
Did you really go to Iraq? Because the Iraq that I saw made me thankful as shit that I basically won the lottery of living in the developed world. Got some first world problems? Who cares. I have a CIB, too. But you know what I hate almost more than anything? People that shim their CIB into a conversation hoping to add more weight to their words.
Life is rough for the vast majority of people on the planet. Take your experiences in hand and be thankful you made it out of that shithole alive.
That is sure some good writing because it touches so many problems our generation face. I would like to point out the question mentioned, why are we different from the great generation?
So here is a little love story about a vet from the great generation. Grandfather had 6 gunwounds and worked all his life on a coal mine in Siberia. He also was the happiest man I ever met.
He was sent to army because he was dating the wrong girl, my grandmother. Some local "boss" wanted to merry her so he sent my grandpa to the army. After three years of service grandfather had been offered to go to a Militar Academy, thats when he got a letter telling him that he had a daughter. It also stated thet grandmother went to work on coalmines on Shpitzbergen (google it), so her parents and little daughter get additional food supplies.
So he rejected the offer, droped out of the force and went back to Siberia. The army was not happy about it. He didnt get any military benefits, no badges, no pension, no documents of where he's been or what he's done. Only 6 gunwounds on his leg, arm and torso. When he got back he's made a fake electricians papers and got a job on a local coal mine. When grandmother found out that he is back she returned home in a few months. They got married and had 2 more kids. My granddad worked on the same coal mine for the rest of his life. They lived and died in the same 500sf wooden duplex. Coal heating, cold water 300 meters away from the home, WC in the yard. He drove one single motorcycle all his life. They have never had a phone, so he walked to the post office once a week to talk to his daughters.
How come he's been the happiest man I've ever met? Well, he loved fishing, his yard, cards and his family. He died a few years ago. His daughters had to fly half the world to get to the funeral. One lives in Tuscany, Italy, another in Santa Clara, CA.
What made that generation great? Maybe they did what had to be done and were happy about it. Perhaps they never expected much from life and tresured little what they had. Sure they had something our generation is missing.
PS: Grandfather's sister told this story to my aunt only after he died. He's never mentioned army or the hardtimes.
So here is a little love story about a vet from the great generation. Grandfather had 6 gunwounds and worked all his life on a coal mine in Siberia. He also was the happiest man I ever met.
He was sent to army because he was dating the wrong girl, my grandmother. Some local "boss" wanted to merry her so he sent my grandpa to the army. After three years of service grandfather had been offered to go to a Militar Academy, thats when he got a letter telling him that he had a daughter. It also stated thet grandmother went to work on coalmines on Shpitzbergen (google it), so her parents and little daughter get additional food supplies.
So he rejected the offer, droped out of the force and went back to Siberia. The army was not happy about it. He didnt get any military benefits, no badges, no pension, no documents of where he's been or what he's done. Only 6 gunwounds on his leg, arm and torso. When he got back he's made a fake electricians papers and got a job on a local coal mine. When grandmother found out that he is back she returned home in a few months. They got married and had 2 more kids. My granddad worked on the same coal mine for the rest of his life. They lived and died in the same 500sf wooden duplex. Coal heating, cold water 300 meters away from the home, WC in the yard. He drove one single motorcycle all his life. They have never had a phone, so he walked to the post office once a week to talk to his daughters.
How come he's been the happiest man I've ever met? Well, he loved fishing, his yard, cards and his family. He died a few years ago. His daughters had to fly half the world to get to the funeral. One lives in Tuscany, Italy, another in Santa Clara, CA.
What made that generation great? Maybe they did what had to be done and were happy about it. Perhaps they never expected much from life and tresured little what they had. Sure they had something our generation is missing.
PS: Grandfather's sister told this story to my aunt only after he died. He's never mentioned army or the hardtimes.
I find this mildly frightening, though hopefully that is just my imagination getting the best of me. A combat soldier who takes strangers around town all day, while thinking how much he identifies with the main character of Taxi Driver, a recluse vigilante who also kept a written diary of his thoughts before attempting to assassinate a politician.
He identifies with the character, but the movie is an exaggeration or taking the mindset to an extreme.
Many people identify with the main character from Fight Club, and quote it often, but none of us are developing split personality disorders or fighting with ourselves in a bar parking lot or starting an underground fighting club.
What should frighten you is that being an Uber driver is the best employment option for a war veteran with PTSD. This guy has his writing, and I'd hire him on the spot just reading that article, but not all vets have that even.
Many people identify with the main character from Fight Club, and quote it often, but none of us are developing split personality disorders or fighting with ourselves in a bar parking lot or starting an underground fighting club.
What should frighten you is that being an Uber driver is the best employment option for a war veteran with PTSD. This guy has his writing, and I'd hire him on the spot just reading that article, but not all vets have that even.
Actually, what frightens me even more is that anyone in the world should ever be a veteran of a war.
Some background to this: the author, Colby Buzzell, is/was famous for his blog "My War" written while we was serving in Iraq. It was compelling reading to say the least, for example "Men in Black":
https://web.archive.org/web/20041206093944/http://cbftw.blog...
https://web.archive.org/web/20041206093944/http://cbftw.blog...
Semi-related, this reminds me of a friend-of-a-friend at the time who was in Iraq. He also had a gift for both writing and photography, though I don't think he ever achieved success of either. Here's a rather horrific photographic post from the time about the results of some of the ammunition used: http://lafinjack.livejournal.com/41715.html
His blog from that time period is both fascinating and horrifying in both pictures and stories.
His blog from that time period is both fascinating and horrifying in both pictures and stories.
I'm glad that the author is working through his problems, or, at the very least, expressing them through some fantastic writing. He makes some very astute observations that I don't think many of us would have access to otherwise. He is also the vocal minority of vet Uber drivers. 99% of vet Uber drivers are simply shuttling people around with these sorts of thoughts stewing repeatedly in their brain; most likely with no creative outlet or release other than alcohol/drugs because the treatment options are far from adequate for PTSD-afflicted vets.
There's a shallow reason and a deep reason people like to read these stories about what it's like to be an Uber driver. The shallow reason is that these drivers usually have great stories about all of the strange, quirky people that come creeping out of the woodwork at night and put their real selves on display for the invisible taxi driver. The deep reason is that you like to see how bad these guys really have it, and then think to yourself "wow, I sure am glad that I don't have to do that for a living and work for that awful company that makes a lot of money employing/exploiting vets." A schadenfreude of sorts.
Anyways, I commend the author for sticking his neck out and writing about the problems he perceives. It has sparked a dialogue here, and seeded ideas in my mind, along with the many others that have read the article. You don't have to agree with his points, or even like the guy as a human being, but it's great that he's got us all thinking.
There's a shallow reason and a deep reason people like to read these stories about what it's like to be an Uber driver. The shallow reason is that these drivers usually have great stories about all of the strange, quirky people that come creeping out of the woodwork at night and put their real selves on display for the invisible taxi driver. The deep reason is that you like to see how bad these guys really have it, and then think to yourself "wow, I sure am glad that I don't have to do that for a living and work for that awful company that makes a lot of money employing/exploiting vets." A schadenfreude of sorts.
Anyways, I commend the author for sticking his neck out and writing about the problems he perceives. It has sparked a dialogue here, and seeded ideas in my mind, along with the many others that have read the article. You don't have to agree with his points, or even like the guy as a human being, but it's great that he's got us all thinking.
What a great piece that describes the new type existential despair seen in the modern world. How are we so isolated in spite of connectedness? The question of burning time, for money, for... what? How does one come to serve the haves who happened into success and wealth and prestige?
Still though, he makes more money than I do working as a computer engineer, which is a small consolation.
Anyway, outstanding read and I sincerely hope things improve for him and vets everywhere.
Still though, he makes more money than I do working as a computer engineer, which is a small consolation.
Anyway, outstanding read and I sincerely hope things improve for him and vets everywhere.
A nice piece of writing. Personally I hate feeling obliged to talk to bus drivers and taxi drivers but when a conversation happens it is often rewarding.
That said, whilst the tech industry is certainly booming, the average tech worker is not getting an uber to their house in Palo Alto. Even on $150k salaries they are living quite ordinary lives in small rented apartments in the city or maybe a townhouse an hour away on the commuter train.
That said, whilst the tech industry is certainly booming, the average tech worker is not getting an uber to their house in Palo Alto. Even on $150k salaries they are living quite ordinary lives in small rented apartments in the city or maybe a townhouse an hour away on the commuter train.
What is this I dont even :/
>Stuck on my dashboard where everyone can see is my Combat Infantry Badge... destroy enemy with direct fire ..a conversation starter...no one notices
gee, maybe try some photos of a massacred village, or burned convoy full of children
>Our unit slogan had been "Punish the Deserving."
not psychotic at all
>my thoughts drift, inevitably, to the voiceovers from Taxi Driver that have been rattling around in my head for months
sign of pathetic VA hospitals psychiatric care. I hope someone will notice this article and take care of poor dude.
>You're either part of the "haves" who work in tech, talk about tech, cater to tech, or try to make a living off tech, or you're part of the have-nots, the people who aren't in tech and are being driven out of this town
Umm thats not how it works buddy. Haves and have-nots is about wealth. What you describe is education and skills. You are mixing cause and effect.
>Many who work in tech are living their lives as if it's the carefree Roaring 20s, while I'm more or less stuck in the Great Depression.
weird, its like people who decided to do something productive in life, instead of killing people on the other side of the planet, are actually doing something with their lives, instead of drinking until you fall under the bar while reminiscing 'countless "movement to contact" missions'.
>I'm the dark guy driving whitey
nice, thats just classy.
>A robot could do my fucking job
The way things are going robots will replace your previous job too.
>Stuck on my dashboard where everyone can see is my Combat Infantry Badge... destroy enemy with direct fire ..a conversation starter...no one notices
gee, maybe try some photos of a massacred village, or burned convoy full of children
>Our unit slogan had been "Punish the Deserving."
not psychotic at all
>my thoughts drift, inevitably, to the voiceovers from Taxi Driver that have been rattling around in my head for months
sign of pathetic VA hospitals psychiatric care. I hope someone will notice this article and take care of poor dude.
>You're either part of the "haves" who work in tech, talk about tech, cater to tech, or try to make a living off tech, or you're part of the have-nots, the people who aren't in tech and are being driven out of this town
Umm thats not how it works buddy. Haves and have-nots is about wealth. What you describe is education and skills. You are mixing cause and effect.
>Many who work in tech are living their lives as if it's the carefree Roaring 20s, while I'm more or less stuck in the Great Depression.
weird, its like people who decided to do something productive in life, instead of killing people on the other side of the planet, are actually doing something with their lives, instead of drinking until you fall under the bar while reminiscing 'countless "movement to contact" missions'.
>I'm the dark guy driving whitey
nice, thats just classy.
>A robot could do my fucking job
The way things are going robots will replace your previous job too.
This is how I imagine most people who lead with, "I'm a veteran", think.
It boggles my mind that someone feels deserving of respect because they found themselves in a low income situation and joined the military because of it.
Relative to other low income, low skill, employment opportunities, joining the military is rather safe. Compare it to entry level construction workers for instance.
So I'm supposed to pay tax dollars for your salary and then give up my seat on a plane because you're working just like the rest of us?
By the way, thanks to everyone who is a contributing member of society. That goes for roofers, factory workers and military members alike, but please don't ask for special treatment from me, because I'm not likely to give it to you.
It boggles my mind that someone feels deserving of respect because they found themselves in a low income situation and joined the military because of it.
Relative to other low income, low skill, employment opportunities, joining the military is rather safe. Compare it to entry level construction workers for instance.
So I'm supposed to pay tax dollars for your salary and then give up my seat on a plane because you're working just like the rest of us?
By the way, thanks to everyone who is a contributing member of society. That goes for roofers, factory workers and military members alike, but please don't ask for special treatment from me, because I'm not likely to give it to you.
Unfortunately it's a byproduct of the US's quasi-deification of those who serve in the military. One really has to be a part of the club to really get it, I guess. For those whose past generations have made it a tradition of serving, yeah, it's a big deal. But those who know no one that's served, obviously not so much.
And then there's the angle that you bring up: those who enlist generally are those with fewer skills to offer the marketplace and thus choose the safe government-supported route. Which isn't a bad thing, that's just how it is.
Of course you're going to get downvotes from this crowd for not pussyfooting around the issue and saying how it really is. I too see it as absurd to worship the ground that veterans walk on, especially when it was their choice to be put in harm's way. It's not my fault you fell for all the war-is-glorious propaganda and then came home a fractured mess (the ineptitude of the VA is another issue).
And then there's the angle that you bring up: those who enlist generally are those with fewer skills to offer the marketplace and thus choose the safe government-supported route. Which isn't a bad thing, that's just how it is.
Of course you're going to get downvotes from this crowd for not pussyfooting around the issue and saying how it really is. I too see it as absurd to worship the ground that veterans walk on, especially when it was their choice to be put in harm's way. It's not my fault you fell for all the war-is-glorious propaganda and then came home a fractured mess (the ineptitude of the VA is another issue).
A small portion of the country has to make the ultimate sacrifice (health & mental stability) in order to keep people like you safe, happy, stable, and employed.
Any number of events could have led you down the same path. What if your parents had died while you were young? What if you were born poor & the military was your ticket to decent pay and an education? You're lucky that you get to live the life that you do.
You should show some respect and practice a little empathy rather than picking on a lonely, disenchanted, divorced, PTSD-afflicted vet who was ordered by your government to kill your enemies.
Any number of events could have led you down the same path. What if your parents had died while you were young? What if you were born poor & the military was your ticket to decent pay and an education? You're lucky that you get to live the life that you do.
You should show some respect and practice a little empathy rather than picking on a lonely, disenchanted, divorced, PTSD-afflicted vet who was ordered by your government to kill your enemies.
>treating me like a machine while my thoughts drift
The simple truth is that for many people! they hire someone to do a job and would rather not talk while that job is done.
The simple truth is that for many people! they hire someone to do a job and would rather not talk while that job is done.
A robot could do my fucking job.
In a few years, one will. God bless Silicon Valley.
In a few years, one will. God bless Silicon Valley.
And hopefully this talk of a basic income will be the most sensible solution instead of forcing veterans and people with low incomes to beg and wait for any sort of help. It's disturbing that this guy has to wait for months to get veterans benefits.
I totally sympathise with the man, and i believe that this is an extremely well written article. At the same time though i want to mention that plenty of times when i get on a taxi i'm super tired, maybe distressed and really in no mood to talk to anyone. Glaring outside of the window saying nothing is my favourite thing to do, but many people might prefer watching pictures on Instagram from their hometowns and smile. As someone else said "C'est la vie"
"Many who work in tech are living their lives as if it's the carefree Roaring 20s, while I'm more or less stuck in the Great Depression."
Of course, the roaring twenties were themselves times of relative inequality, and that name only describes the excitement, culture, and affluence of the urban rich of the era. The author seems to be describing the modern day euphoria over the power of the tech industry to make a new world as similarly one-sided.
Of course, the roaring twenties were themselves times of relative inequality, and that name only describes the excitement, culture, and affluence of the urban rich of the era. The author seems to be describing the modern day euphoria over the power of the tech industry to make a new world as similarly one-sided.
Isn't it?
No one in Silicon Valley gives a damn about anyone outside it, or indeed outside their own social and professional circles. There's nothing intrinsically unusual about this, of course, but it lends a certain sardonic amusement to an outsider's perspective on the "changing the world" rhetoric which SV has taken beyond mere cliché to what may be a new and previously unimagined realm of banality.
No one in Silicon Valley gives a damn about anyone outside it, or indeed outside their own social and professional circles. There's nothing intrinsically unusual about this, of course, but it lends a certain sardonic amusement to an outsider's perspective on the "changing the world" rhetoric which SV has taken beyond mere cliché to what may be a new and previously unimagined realm of banality.
>No one in Silicon Valley gives a damn about anyone outside it
Seems unlikely.
Seems unlikely.
I certainly care about people outside of SV. I'm in SV.
Most of the people are glued to their phones while ridding a cab...its a Mad Mad World!!
[deleted]
[deleted]
Speaking with Lyft/Uber drivers myself, I hear there is a difference in culture between riders who choose between the two companies. Uber riders treat their drivers like taxis or "robots," while Lyft riders often converse with a fellow human being, who happens to be driving them around. It just sounds like this guy needs to switch companies.
I've never had to clean off blood or cum from my car... And I do drive frequently between 12am and 3am.
That was a quote from the movie Taxi Driver, as is all the italicized text in the article...
Among the comments that address the passengers not engaging in small talk with the driver, I don't see one of the reasons I don't engage much with the driver: It's sometimes difficult and frustrating to have a conversation with someone who is facing away from you.
I'm looking forward to reading his most recent book: http://www.amazon.com/Thank-You-Being-Expendable-Experiences...
A lot of this piece, which has some great bits of writing, is focused on the issues of the current generation of veterans. But a lot of the class and social mobility issues he describes are common to lots of people, not just veterans.
I have to talk to people all day long. When I take uber I get a few minutes of peace. My apologies to the uber driver that just really wants to share their life with me.
Summary: "I've defended big oil interests halfway across the world in a war started on a false pretext, please worship me". I get it, you're a veteran and you're proud of that, and maybe you even did everything as a worthy human being, but tone down on the ego.
mitkok(1)
Well, c'est la vie.
The broader population only know about these issues through Jon Stewart or from recent press, but have no connection with it otherwise nor could they really care. Should they? I don't know, probably, but not necessarily.
Even within the military only those who are have been in the Army, or were deployed to a combat zone, really understand the significance of a CIB. So expecting anyone to recognize it, let alone start a conversation around it would be unexpected at the least - I know I wouldn't start a conversation around it. Putting it on display is hack and is looking for attention.
I don't think that the US population owes us anything, but many veterans don't agree. This is part of a broader conversation about how the US public sees and interacts with it's veterans and the military more broadly. At the end of the day though the Stolen Valor shaming, demanding veteran/military discounts just reeks of entitlement. Given that we have been an all-volunteer force over the past 40 years I don't think anyone can claim they didn't know what they were getting into, granting that there are shady practices with recruiting that go on.
In the end, I feel like stories like this just isolate veterans further. Rather than bring us more into the community as someone who has a unique experience and valuable point of view, it keeps the division between "civilian" and "military/veterans" alive and I think that is damaging on the whole.