Ask HN: Is my college education worth my time?
6 comments
What you get out will be based on what you put in. If your coursework isn't working for you, find different courses or find a faculty member to advise you on independent projects or research (for credit or not). Audit upper-level or graduate courses. Talk to professors and grad students outside of class to learn about their research. Attend talks and conferences. This is more work for you, but it sounds like it's what you want.
College is also a great place to do programming or business projects in your free time, and to find other people to do them with. You may never have as easy a time meeting new people or spending time on personal projects as you do right now. It might cut into your partying and fraternity activities, but dropping out to join the workforce would do that too.
Opportunities will be hard to find at first, and you have to expect some amount of rejection. Keep in mind that your coursework will become more self-directed and interesting with each new year of school. Some opportunities that are closed to you now will be open later if you make sure you're aware and ready for them.
As long as you're not planning to go to grad school, and not in danger of failing, ignore your grades and instead optimize your learning. For the first time in your life, GPA might not matter ever again. Grades can be useful feedback for you, but remember that in ten years no one will care if you got a C- in freshman chemistry. (Some job applications do ask for your GPA, but in the startup world this is rare.) Regardless of how it affects your grades, spend more time on the lectures/homework/reading/activities that actually teach you things and less on busywork or stuff you already know. It's your responsibility to decide whether it's better to skip lecture and learn the material on your own.
College is also a great place to do programming or business projects in your free time, and to find other people to do them with. You may never have as easy a time meeting new people or spending time on personal projects as you do right now. It might cut into your partying and fraternity activities, but dropping out to join the workforce would do that too.
Opportunities will be hard to find at first, and you have to expect some amount of rejection. Keep in mind that your coursework will become more self-directed and interesting with each new year of school. Some opportunities that are closed to you now will be open later if you make sure you're aware and ready for them.
As long as you're not planning to go to grad school, and not in danger of failing, ignore your grades and instead optimize your learning. For the first time in your life, GPA might not matter ever again. Grades can be useful feedback for you, but remember that in ten years no one will care if you got a C- in freshman chemistry. (Some job applications do ask for your GPA, but in the startup world this is rare.) Regardless of how it affects your grades, spend more time on the lectures/homework/reading/activities that actually teach you things and less on busywork or stuff you already know. It's your responsibility to decide whether it's better to skip lecture and learn the material on your own.
Its just hard because I have to do 2 years of general education classes. I would love to enroll in upper division classes but there are so many limitations going against me that it looks like it is impossible. Also the fact that were in a budget crisis makes it even harder for me to enroll in any of the classes that I would like to take.
I will try my hand at a couple projects in the near future. I am surrounded by my peers, and some of the smartest people that can complement my skill set and I plan to take full advantage of that. I haven't been here long but I am also going to go out in search of clubs and organizations with interests the same as my own. Who knows maybe I'll even found my own.
It looks like it comes down to time. I have to give it time to start taking classes that relate to my career. Right now it feels like a continuation of high school, but I can see that further down the line that will change. I guess its just frustrating going through this mundane cycle of freshman college life. Maybe its the perfect time to start my side project.
I will try my hand at a couple projects in the near future. I am surrounded by my peers, and some of the smartest people that can complement my skill set and I plan to take full advantage of that. I haven't been here long but I am also going to go out in search of clubs and organizations with interests the same as my own. Who knows maybe I'll even found my own.
It looks like it comes down to time. I have to give it time to start taking classes that relate to my career. Right now it feels like a continuation of high school, but I can see that further down the line that will change. I guess its just frustrating going through this mundane cycle of freshman college life. Maybe its the perfect time to start my side project.
Its just hard because I have to do 2 years of general education classes.
You get results out of everything in proportion to what you put in. Take the general education classes and make them as interesting as you can. Learn as much as you can. Not everything must be specialization in your major.
Anecdote: when I was an Undergraduate EE one of my classmates complained to my English lit professor about all the "stupid humanities classes" we were required to take. Prof thought for a second and then said, "there are two good reasons for this. First, most of you are engineering students and you need to learn that not all problems can be solved through technology or at all. Studying literature is an excellent way to understand this. Second, when you're an engineer in industry and you walk up to that cute young lady at a cocktail party, you probably want to have something more interesting to talk to her about than circuitry and electronics."
Twenty years or so since graduation and I still agree with him on both counts!
You get results out of everything in proportion to what you put in. Take the general education classes and make them as interesting as you can. Learn as much as you can. Not everything must be specialization in your major.
Anecdote: when I was an Undergraduate EE one of my classmates complained to my English lit professor about all the "stupid humanities classes" we were required to take. Prof thought for a second and then said, "there are two good reasons for this. First, most of you are engineering students and you need to learn that not all problems can be solved through technology or at all. Studying literature is an excellent way to understand this. Second, when you're an engineer in industry and you walk up to that cute young lady at a cocktail party, you probably want to have something more interesting to talk to her about than circuitry and electronics."
Twenty years or so since graduation and I still agree with him on both counts!
Don't feel like you have to go through channels. Just figure out what you want, and then ask for it. Like if there's a really interesting class, show up to lecture and ask the professor directly if you can sit in the back and listen without enrolling. Or chat with grad students and see if they or their advisors need extra help (programmers, assistants, gofers) for their research. Starting your own club is a great idea too. Like I said, expect rejection. Persistence pays off, and you'll never get what you want if you don't ask for it. (Of course there's an important meta-lesson here that will be even more useful once you get out of school.)
This is great advice. I'm going to take advantage of any/all available resources and opportunities. I know they're out there I guess its just hard to find them. I am going to talk to my academic adviser and see how I would go about taking these more interesting upper division courses. I know I'm not a typical college student; I know what I want to do and I will break this mundane cycle that my peers are in to pursue it. Pushing the limits is in no way going to hurt me, it can only help.
Thanks mbrubeck and HN!
Thanks mbrubeck and HN!
It's impossible for anyone to really answer that question for you. However, I think you are ahead of most college students in that you asked the question at all.
You might look for ways to either better your school experience, or avoid the either/or choice. Perhaps find or start a club that meets regularly to discuss business ideas. If you do leave school, at least make a visit to the registrar's office and file a leave of absense, claiming economic hardship or whatever, so you can easily return in a year or two if necessary. Perhaps you can come up with a business project you can work on while taking the minimum necessary number of hours.
I have heard that grades and completing college do not correlate well with various measures of life success (apparently high school grades and completion do). I have also heard that dropping out with straight A's is one of the best predictors of future success. That makes sense to me, although I can't say which way the causal relationship goes; but I would not neglect the grades even if you plan to leave.
You might put some energy and effort into finding classes you think will be worthwhile. Often various bureaucratic requirements of being in a certain major or pre-requisites can be waived by petition or lobbying the professor.
If you truely feel you are wasting your time, leave in an organized, purposeful fashion. Let the school know, preserve the ability to come back if that is easy, preserve your fraternal network and other friends by letting them know and maintaining contact. As you begin to tell professors and friends that you feel you are wasting your time and are leaving, you may find opportunities at school open up, or that you get tips to interesting places to work.
You might look for ways to either better your school experience, or avoid the either/or choice. Perhaps find or start a club that meets regularly to discuss business ideas. If you do leave school, at least make a visit to the registrar's office and file a leave of absense, claiming economic hardship or whatever, so you can easily return in a year or two if necessary. Perhaps you can come up with a business project you can work on while taking the minimum necessary number of hours.
I have heard that grades and completing college do not correlate well with various measures of life success (apparently high school grades and completion do). I have also heard that dropping out with straight A's is one of the best predictors of future success. That makes sense to me, although I can't say which way the causal relationship goes; but I would not neglect the grades even if you plan to leave.
You might put some energy and effort into finding classes you think will be worthwhile. Often various bureaucratic requirements of being in a certain major or pre-requisites can be waived by petition or lobbying the professor.
If you truely feel you are wasting your time, leave in an organized, purposeful fashion. Let the school know, preserve the ability to come back if that is easy, preserve your fraternal network and other friends by letting them know and maintaining contact. As you begin to tell professors and friends that you feel you are wasting your time and are leaving, you may find opportunities at school open up, or that you get tips to interesting places to work.
your time is as valuable as you make it. why aren't you following your passion by getting your degree in it? if you are and you just think the classes are boring, its probably because they are. the first year or two tend to be filter classes to pull out the people who don't really want or deserve to be there.
college isn't necessarily just a place to learn about things and party/drink. there are other things you can do that will do more than just expand your knowledge and liver. try new things and use your time to grow yourself as a person. college turned me into a different person.
will a degree or two benefit you? yes, definitely. but not as much as is typically advertised, and not in the standard ways people tend to think.
beyond that, why can't you continue to pursue your passion of technology and business while getting your degree? there are a ton of people who've used the free time they have in college to start companies and do interesting things.
college isn't necessarily just a place to learn about things and party/drink. there are other things you can do that will do more than just expand your knowledge and liver. try new things and use your time to grow yourself as a person. college turned me into a different person.
will a degree or two benefit you? yes, definitely. but not as much as is typically advertised, and not in the standard ways people tend to think.
beyond that, why can't you continue to pursue your passion of technology and business while getting your degree? there are a ton of people who've used the free time they have in college to start companies and do interesting things.
College is a great chance to network. Get to know people with similar goals as your own. Get to know your classmates, this is where you will meet your future co-founders. You will get out of college what you put into it, if you want to party and have fun pledge a fraternity and party all of the time. If you want to get more out of the experience, you can. It's what you put into it, you choose where to spend your time and who to spend it with. Take classes that interest you, not just easy classes to complete the requirements. Then, get involved in extra-curricular activities, there must be clubs that focus on business or entrepreneurship. Get in them, or found them if they do not exist. Push yourself, this is a once in a lifetime chance to grow without the different expectations and responsibilities that life puts on you as you get older.
If having a startup is your dream, then now is your best opportunity to find your co-founders. Get to work!
If having a startup is your dream, then now is your best opportunity to find your co-founders. Get to work!
If you have to ask a bunch of strangers if it's worth your time, then chances are that it is.
[Edit to add some clarification]
There aren't many cases where getting a college degree isn't advantageous. Those few cases are if you already have a strong idea of what you want / need to do, and have the drive to get there. If you don't have either of those things driving you away from college, then going to college is likely going to be the most advantageous route for you.
[Edit to add some clarification]
There aren't many cases where getting a college degree isn't advantageous. Those few cases are if you already have a strong idea of what you want / need to do, and have the drive to get there. If you don't have either of those things driving you away from college, then going to college is likely going to be the most advantageous route for you.
Yes, stop partying and socializing and use your free time to do the stuff you want. Next question?
I absolutely love it here. The environment and people are both awesome, I'm pledging a fraternity and its tons of fun. But that's the problem.
I feel like I am here solely to have fun and study the mundane and useless topics in my classes. I know I could be learning a lot more about things I'm interested in (programming, business) on my own and I could gain valuable experience by developing start ups - experience this school is not going to teach me.
That brings me to the question: How valuable is my time here? I drink and party my fair share and in my other time I'm studying these useless subjects - with no room to follow my passion of technology & business.
Is a degree or two really going to benefit me that much more in the long run?