College Without High School(mayafrost.com)
mayafrost.com
College Without High School
http://www.mayafrost.com/blog/2009/09/19/college-without-high-school-blake-boles/
12 comments
I argue that the traditional school environment is socially stunting.
It is a rare minority of the time in your life that you only interact with peers of your own age.
One of the touted advantages of alternative schooling is that the "students" have more natural relationships with peers of a wider variety of ages, better preparing them for the rest of their lives.
It is a rare minority of the time in your life that you only interact with peers of your own age.
One of the touted advantages of alternative schooling is that the "students" have more natural relationships with peers of a wider variety of ages, better preparing them for the rest of their lives.
skipping it would have handicapped my social skills
Don't you think you would have met other people wherever else you would have been away from high school?
Don't you think you would have met other people wherever else you would have been away from high school?
I agree with him very strongly I could easily have gone without high school but finding groups of my peers would have been much much harder especially since I did not live near enough to people my age to have met friends outside of school.
Sure if you move on to college you will go and meet other people but you may be more intimidated as they will be 3-4 years older than you and you have missed the social style that school offers.
I have run into a few people who were home schooled and this is apparent as they usually do not understand how both the social and classroom aspects work: these people were especially hard to deal with in class as they would interrupt the professors often with useless questions at inopportune times that hurt the flow of information and in exchange move the entire class off track.
Sure if you move on to college you will go and meet other people but you may be more intimidated as they will be 3-4 years older than you and you have missed the social style that school offers.
I have run into a few people who were home schooled and this is apparent as they usually do not understand how both the social and classroom aspects work: these people were especially hard to deal with in class as they would interrupt the professors often with useless questions at inopportune times that hurt the flow of information and in exchange move the entire class off track.
I was home schooled and raised around a variety of people of all ages. I do not have handicapped social skills simply because I didn't interact on a daily basis with my peers, most of the time I was forced to interact with adults.
Although you might be able to make friends that think it's funny to get a young kid drunk...definitely a different atmosphere.
>Look at the evidence. Look at MIT or Stanford’s online admissions guidelines for homeschoolers. They don’t want high school diplomas. They don’t want some perfect equivalent of 4 years of high school classes. They want teens who have taken personal initiative and designed meaningful, independence-building activities for themselves. They want teens who have boldly explored the realms of business, international travel, and college-level research prior to convincing themselves that they actually need college. Traditional high school is very often a handicap in pursuing these character traits. And while not every college has explicit homeschool admissions policies like MIT and Stanford, the logic remains the same: colleges want dynamic, innovative teens who leave the cookie-cutter approach behind for greener pastures.
As an "unschooler" I received similar advice from advisors and admissions.
In the end I didn't go to college, I found it wasn't for me. I couldn't stand the thought of another four years of before cutting my teeth in the "real world." I just couldn't take anybody's word that they were going to give me the best preparation for what was to come next.
I just had to dive in.
It's not for everybody, but we can do more to help students whose time is wasted in school.
If one is better suited to jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire these are 4-6 years of experience s/he will never get back.
As an "unschooler" I received similar advice from advisors and admissions.
In the end I didn't go to college, I found it wasn't for me. I couldn't stand the thought of another four years of before cutting my teeth in the "real world." I just couldn't take anybody's word that they were going to give me the best preparation for what was to come next.
I just had to dive in.
It's not for everybody, but we can do more to help students whose time is wasted in school.
If one is better suited to jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire these are 4-6 years of experience s/he will never get back.
I dropped out of high school at 16. You can still get into good colleges sans a high school diploma. (Though it's much more of a fluke to get into a top-tier school – but honestly, I wouldn't have had I graduated from my podunkville high school either.)
Like many things, a high school diploma is a check in a box. If you deviate from the standard path the onus is on you to demonstrate that you can still cross the bridges that are laid out before you: people will be skeptical by default. If you can make up for that with accomplishments far more impressive than walking across the stage at 18, nobody after you're 19 will care that you didn't.
Like many things, a high school diploma is a check in a box. If you deviate from the standard path the onus is on you to demonstrate that you can still cross the bridges that are laid out before you: people will be skeptical by default. If you can make up for that with accomplishments far more impressive than walking across the stage at 18, nobody after you're 19 will care that you didn't.
An odd coincidence to be sure, but Hans Reiser[1] also skipped high school and went to Berkeley via the same program Mr. Boles did.
1- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Reiser
1- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Reiser
It's eerie for me to read that article; I am also a programmer that skipped high school and recently graduated from UC Berkeley.
As far as skipping high school goes, I think I'd recommend it. I was immensely bored in school before I did, and I wasn't a good student beforehand. I got out of school several years early, and had more time to pursue things I was interested in. Now, I have a few more free years than I would have had otherwise, and because I worked through school, a financial cushion to take time off, travel, and potentially start a business.
For those interested in skipping high school, it's very easy, and anyone can do it. You should enroll at the local community college and ask the universities that you are interested in what you should take. Your professors will also be helpful in guiding your curriculum and helping you transfer. One thing to consider, though, is that some private schools like MIT, Stanford, and so on rarely accept transfer students. If you're interested in certain private schools, you should ask their admissions councilors for admissions statistics for transfers vs. freshman admits (and also general admissions advice). Good luck!
As far as skipping high school goes, I think I'd recommend it. I was immensely bored in school before I did, and I wasn't a good student beforehand. I got out of school several years early, and had more time to pursue things I was interested in. Now, I have a few more free years than I would have had otherwise, and because I worked through school, a financial cushion to take time off, travel, and potentially start a business.
For those interested in skipping high school, it's very easy, and anyone can do it. You should enroll at the local community college and ask the universities that you are interested in what you should take. Your professors will also be helpful in guiding your curriculum and helping you transfer. One thing to consider, though, is that some private schools like MIT, Stanford, and so on rarely accept transfer students. If you're interested in certain private schools, you should ask their admissions councilors for admissions statistics for transfers vs. freshman admits (and also general admissions advice). Good luck!
As a high school and college graduate I've got to chip in say this is gunk. The author was motivated and ready to go to college. There are a lot of motivated high school students as well. They've navigated the curriculum successfully and got out unscathed.
I've talked to college admissions officials on this. Like so many before me, I was smart and ready to jump off the carousel. Fortunately, someone steeped in the game stopped me before I made a pretty bad decision. I could have dropped out, got my GED and started to apply to universities. And I would have been summarily rejected from the good ones.
Instead I stayed, finished up all my highschool requirements by sophomore year (and most were done by freshman year). Leaving me 2 years to take college prep, AP, and dual enrollment courses. All of this was done on the school board's dime.
The blogger speaks about the author like everyone has the opportunity to travel to Buenos Aires, enroll at an American University, and do extensive travel. Unless something changed, AU is seriously expensive and is usually full of the countries' elite. Having access to money buys you tons of things. One of them being a good education anywhere.
Highschool may have its failings but atleast everyone is given the opportunity to go. At this point, you're old enough to make choices and young enough not to feel the consequences. I always hear of how bored people were when in highschool. I rarely hear of anyone saying I took it up a notch and took the harder classes.
I was awed when I set foot on campus. I met people that were much smarter and much more accomplished than me. At home I was a a local hero for getting into a good uni. Now I was in a class of local heroes. Some did major scientific work (Intel, Westinghouse, ISF, etc.) before arriving. And others started their first dotcom while in highschool.
While I understand the idea of unschooling, I'm not impressed with the attacks on the public high school. I'm equally unimpressed with attacks on homeschooling. Both require motivation, and homeschooling requires a bit of sacrifice. I have friends that were homeschooled. None were socially awkward, naive, nor ignorant. They understood that their parents made huge sacrifices (loss of income and career) to provide that education.
The fact is, colleges, and now the military, are looking for smart, motivated people. Just dropping out and getting a GED doesn't prove any of this and might give the impression of the opposite.
I've talked to college admissions officials on this. Like so many before me, I was smart and ready to jump off the carousel. Fortunately, someone steeped in the game stopped me before I made a pretty bad decision. I could have dropped out, got my GED and started to apply to universities. And I would have been summarily rejected from the good ones.
Instead I stayed, finished up all my highschool requirements by sophomore year (and most were done by freshman year). Leaving me 2 years to take college prep, AP, and dual enrollment courses. All of this was done on the school board's dime.
The blogger speaks about the author like everyone has the opportunity to travel to Buenos Aires, enroll at an American University, and do extensive travel. Unless something changed, AU is seriously expensive and is usually full of the countries' elite. Having access to money buys you tons of things. One of them being a good education anywhere.
Highschool may have its failings but atleast everyone is given the opportunity to go. At this point, you're old enough to make choices and young enough not to feel the consequences. I always hear of how bored people were when in highschool. I rarely hear of anyone saying I took it up a notch and took the harder classes.
I was awed when I set foot on campus. I met people that were much smarter and much more accomplished than me. At home I was a a local hero for getting into a good uni. Now I was in a class of local heroes. Some did major scientific work (Intel, Westinghouse, ISF, etc.) before arriving. And others started their first dotcom while in highschool.
While I understand the idea of unschooling, I'm not impressed with the attacks on the public high school. I'm equally unimpressed with attacks on homeschooling. Both require motivation, and homeschooling requires a bit of sacrifice. I have friends that were homeschooled. None were socially awkward, naive, nor ignorant. They understood that their parents made huge sacrifices (loss of income and career) to provide that education.
The fact is, colleges, and now the military, are looking for smart, motivated people. Just dropping out and getting a GED doesn't prove any of this and might give the impression of the opposite.
Thanks for writing an alternate and reasonable perspective. I generally hold very poor opinions about schooling and sometimes forget that it can and does work for certain types of people.
As someone who dropped out of high school to go to college, and then subsequently dropped out of said college, I am struck by the early similarities. I am you but perhaps less disciplined - a lot of 'hyperbrain' characteristics.
I'd also finished up my high school requirements by sophomore year (including 4 APs), although trying to set up dual enrollment was like pulling teeth in my school district.
However, like mrshoe, I thought school damaged me educationally. To be straight I'd say school was what killed my motivation - something along the lines of that one Einstein quote - and allowed me to form maladaptive study habits which I have never successfully eradicated.
Even now I am still unsure of what kind of advice to give a smart but demotivated youngster. Usually default to:
If you don't make mistakes, you're not working on hard enough problems. And that's a big mistake. -Frank Wilczek
As someone who dropped out of high school to go to college, and then subsequently dropped out of said college, I am struck by the early similarities. I am you but perhaps less disciplined - a lot of 'hyperbrain' characteristics.
I'd also finished up my high school requirements by sophomore year (including 4 APs), although trying to set up dual enrollment was like pulling teeth in my school district.
However, like mrshoe, I thought school damaged me educationally. To be straight I'd say school was what killed my motivation - something along the lines of that one Einstein quote - and allowed me to form maladaptive study habits which I have never successfully eradicated.
Even now I am still unsure of what kind of advice to give a smart but demotivated youngster. Usually default to:
If you don't make mistakes, you're not working on hard enough problems. And that's a big mistake. -Frank Wilczek
I dropped out of high school and went to jr. college. At that time (and probably still) California Community colleges had agreements with the UC system such that if you fulfilled your general ed requirements with a specific GPA you were guaranteed entrance as a junior transfer. For me this worked out great.
Washington has a similar program. You can take college classes for free at state run schools for up to two years while in high school. I know a bunch of people who entered college as juniors immediately after graduating high school.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_Start
I always just felt that I was waiting for the real world while I was in high school, I didn't create more than 3 lasting friendships (and thats all I can handle) ... so yeah there perhaps should be a option for alternatives that don't lead to discrimination based on that decision.
I don't like the fact that my parents is pressuring me to go to college even after enduring four years of high pressure boredom.
Either I go to college, or I get kicked out.
I don't have a programming job yet, barely able to drive, and generally not prepared for life beyond high school life.
I feel like the world is closing on me and I have no idea where to go other than the painful path my parents and sister set out for me.
I wish I have the capability to navigate life on my own term, without sacrifice in life quality.
Sure you went to school for 4 years to get what it look like very high pay but do you really want to be stuck in corporate cubicle for the rest of your life?
I don't even know what drive kids to sacrifice their time for schooling and at the same time have a life. They probably know calculus like it was the back of their hand.
As for me? I just program for fun and do electronic hacking as another side hobby. I can't do math even if my life depend on it. Beside my undiscoverable underground hobbies, I am just very unremarkable student in a pool of remarkablely bright students.
Either I go to college, or I get kicked out.
I don't have a programming job yet, barely able to drive, and generally not prepared for life beyond high school life.
I feel like the world is closing on me and I have no idea where to go other than the painful path my parents and sister set out for me.
I wish I have the capability to navigate life on my own term, without sacrifice in life quality.
Sure you went to school for 4 years to get what it look like very high pay but do you really want to be stuck in corporate cubicle for the rest of your life?
I don't even know what drive kids to sacrifice their time for schooling and at the same time have a life. They probably know calculus like it was the back of their hand.
As for me? I just program for fun and do electronic hacking as another side hobby. I can't do math even if my life depend on it. Beside my undiscoverable underground hobbies, I am just very unremarkable student in a pool of remarkablely bright students.
If there is something you really want, don't get sucked in to that "quality of life" thing, because people mistakenly take it to mean having a life full of material goods, including a good car while working at a job you hate.
What really brings you quality of life is doing what you love to do, and if that means not going to college then that is the route you should take.
But it is entirely beside the point: It sounds like your parents are scared about your future and don't want a "failure to launch" scenario, understandable but annoying given your situation, so you might want to talk to them about what you are going to do when you are not going to college (when they seem apprehensive, and they will, just tell them that if it doesn't work out you can always go to college "later").
What really brings you quality of life is doing what you love to do, and if that means not going to college then that is the route you should take.
But it is entirely beside the point: It sounds like your parents are scared about your future and don't want a "failure to launch" scenario, understandable but annoying given your situation, so you might want to talk to them about what you are going to do when you are not going to college (when they seem apprehensive, and they will, just tell them that if it doesn't work out you can always go to college "later").
Having just finished the book this week... those of you commenting based solely on the interview are missing the point. The author is not advocating that everybody should skip high school. He is advocating that everybody should lead a life of adventure. For a lot of people, school is enough adventure for them, and that is fine. The book speaks specifically to those kids that aren't getting satisfaction following the standard path. He is laying out an alternate path, but not the only path.
There are some schools that specialize in offering admissions to students who haven't completed high school, such as my alma mater, simon's rock college. It's not quite what the author is advocating, but if there are any high schoolers here (or parents of kids) looking to skip a year or two of high school, it's worth looking into. Most students transfer to a more traditional school after 2 years when they get their AA. I got my BA and am now in grad school.
May I ask what you're doing your grad degree in? I attended SRC for a year and dropped out (didn't know what I wanted out of school), but am always curious about the fates of those who stuck around.
Getting my Phd in CS
Thanks for the link. I wish I would have been enlightened so early on. I didn't realize the stupidity of typical college life until I was in my last year.
Only skimmed the article but this sounds a lot like what we did with our two homeschooled kids. They were "unschooled", as in pursuing what interested them without regard to homework or grades. Both only went through 3rd grade in grade school.
One is now a senior and the other a junior in college. One has a 4.0 average while the other a B+. Both are pursuing what they love. Both work harder than their peers and need no pushing from us.
One is now a senior and the other a junior in college. One has a 4.0 average while the other a B+. Both are pursuing what they love. Both work harder than their peers and need no pushing from us.
I'm very interested in this "unschooling" technique. I've heard a little bit about it before and it's really peaked my curiosity. Would you be willing to chat further about this?
That was me. I firmly believe that middle school and high school did more damage than good for me, educationally. The only thing I really learned was how to get the A grade while doing as little work as possible. I could have learned and accomplished so much more in that time, and been better prepared for college.
However, I have a hard time asserting that I would have been better off skipping high school, overall. Education isn't the only thing you get out of high school. You learn how to handle yourself in a variety of social situations and with a variety of other people. High school might have handicapped my education, but skipping it would have handicapped my social skills.