Leo the Homeless Coder Finished His App, and You Can Download It Right Now(slate.com)
slate.com
Leo the Homeless Coder Finished His App, and You Can Download It Right Now
http://www.slate.com/blogs/business_insider/2013/12/10/homeless_coder_s_trees_for_cars_app.html
101 comments
Wow.. Where do I begin with your comment? I very rarely get upset about comments on the internet, but yours is particularly revolting. When was the last time you stopped in your day-to-day life to try to help someone? And, I don't mean give money to a homeless person or donate to a charity.
I have imagined myself doing what the "privileged narcissistic clown" -- as you call him -- did in this story. I haven't done it yet, but one of these days I am going to push myself enough to do it. I fail to see how he was patronizing the homeless gentlemen. It seems to me that he was treating the guy as a fellow human deserving of respect, and as having potential. If he didn't think he had potential, he would not have bothered. Seriously... what is wrong with you?
I have imagined myself doing what the "privileged narcissistic clown" -- as you call him -- did in this story. I haven't done it yet, but one of these days I am going to push myself enough to do it. I fail to see how he was patronizing the homeless gentlemen. It seems to me that he was treating the guy as a fellow human deserving of respect, and as having potential. If he didn't think he had potential, he would not have bothered. Seriously... what is wrong with you?
I have a very close family member who went missing and eventually was found homeless. In the course of the investigation we found that several people exploited and took advantage of him for personal gain.
If you study the issue (like we did) you will find that this is a common and recurring problem, as homeless people are mentally vulnerable and open to narcissistic individuals.
Nothing against helping others -- I myself volunteered for social-change tech ngos for several years. My problem is in exploiting a vulnerable person for personal gain, which this guy is obviously doing.
If you study the issue (like we did) you will find that this is a common and recurring problem, as homeless people are mentally vulnerable and open to narcissistic individuals.
Nothing against helping others -- I myself volunteered for social-change tech ngos for several years. My problem is in exploiting a vulnerable person for personal gain, which this guy is obviously doing.
we found that several people exploited and took advantage of him for personal gain.
which this guy is obviously doing.
You're not projecting your own personal experience into this story at all, are you? The only way for you to draw this conclusion is to have spoken directly with Patrick McConlogue, and for him to confirm to you that his motives were to exploit this guy.
Two people can have wildly different internal motives that produce similar-looking behaviors. Careful with your snap judgments.
which this guy is obviously doing.
You're not projecting your own personal experience into this story at all, are you? The only way for you to draw this conclusion is to have spoken directly with Patrick McConlogue, and for him to confirm to you that his motives were to exploit this guy.
Two people can have wildly different internal motives that produce similar-looking behaviors. Careful with your snap judgments.
While I'm sorry about what happened to your family member, that doesn't mean the same thing is happening here.
I think McConlogue's point is that homeless people aren't all stupid, stoned-out losers. And that some are capable of learning pretty complex stuff. Sure, plenty of homeless are screwed up, some hopelessly so, but we can't blanket them all with that label.
Here's a guy who's acting locally. And it takes some guts to do something risky. McConlogue may not be thinking globally, but he's doing what he can. Which is far more than a lot of us can claim.
I think McConlogue's point is that homeless people aren't all stupid, stoned-out losers. And that some are capable of learning pretty complex stuff. Sure, plenty of homeless are screwed up, some hopelessly so, but we can't blanket them all with that label.
Here's a guy who's acting locally. And it takes some guts to do something risky. McConlogue may not be thinking globally, but he's doing what he can. Which is far more than a lot of us can claim.
> homeless people aren't all stupid, stoned-out losers.
And then you say I am biased?
And then you say I am biased?
Yes. People took advantage of your relative, and you appear to assume Leo is being taken advantage of as well without having any hard evidence of it.
Are you accusing me of bias when I said "homeless people aren't all stupid, stoned-out losers"? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Are you accusing me of bias when I said "homeless people aren't all stupid, stoned-out losers"? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
From your perspective, what should McConlogue do or have done differently? He's obviously going to benefit from the exposure but I don't see any evidence that he's throwing Leo under the bus in the process.
It seems like a mutual gain to me, compared to a do-nothing approach. If the news story were "Leo goes back to square one after software engineer ditches him after getting publicity" then it would be a different story, but for now, the cynicism feels pregnant but premature.
It seems like a mutual gain to me, compared to a do-nothing approach. If the news story were "Leo goes back to square one after software engineer ditches him after getting publicity" then it would be a different story, but for now, the cynicism feels pregnant but premature.
Why the choice is between exploitation vs. do-nothing? Why not the old-school approach? Interview experienced professionals in the area (people who actually work with homeless people) and then interview homeless people in order to find out what are the problems they face, then design a repeatable and sustainable plan and implement it.
I'm not accusing McConlogue to throw Leo under the bus. I am accusing McConlogue to throw technology professionals under the bus: People who believe in the cause of technology for social development and environmental change. People who make real sacrifices and take their job seriously instead of making up little games. People who would not call a homeless person "unjustly homeless" as if others were "justly homeless".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_and_communication_t...
I'm not accusing McConlogue to throw Leo under the bus. I am accusing McConlogue to throw technology professionals under the bus: People who believe in the cause of technology for social development and environmental change. People who make real sacrifices and take their job seriously instead of making up little games. People who would not call a homeless person "unjustly homeless" as if others were "justly homeless".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_and_communication_t...
Given that he doesn't seem like a soup-kitchen kind of guy (from reading his Medium), why not take a new approach where you try one thing, understand one person in depth, see what you can do, and work from there? That's how you learn and get in-touch with anything.
There's more than one way to skin a cat. People do methods A, B, and C all the time. This guy is trying method D, and doesn't seem to be gunning for repeatable or sustainable or "solve the homeless problem in one fell swoop". He comes across as arrogant and out-of-touch on his blog but he's basically got the dude's back. IMO, at the end of the day all of that adds up to a good thing.
Also, I've worked with some NGOs and I've found them to be generally ineffective at solving problems but great at making volunteers feel good about themselves so the last place I'd want to go if I wanted to understand homelessness would be aid workers, and the first place would be some reading, my own instincts, and working with one individual homeless person. I personally like the "ballsy n=1 experiment" approach he's taking - even though his language makes him come across as kind of a dick.
Also, he is making a real sacrifice - one in terms of time/effort teaching him to code, and two in terms of reputation/job risk. If Leo fails, or if the media twists it the wrong way, McConlogue looks like a jackass and he seems smart enough to understand that.
There's more than one way to skin a cat. People do methods A, B, and C all the time. This guy is trying method D, and doesn't seem to be gunning for repeatable or sustainable or "solve the homeless problem in one fell swoop". He comes across as arrogant and out-of-touch on his blog but he's basically got the dude's back. IMO, at the end of the day all of that adds up to a good thing.
Also, I've worked with some NGOs and I've found them to be generally ineffective at solving problems but great at making volunteers feel good about themselves so the last place I'd want to go if I wanted to understand homelessness would be aid workers, and the first place would be some reading, my own instincts, and working with one individual homeless person. I personally like the "ballsy n=1 experiment" approach he's taking - even though his language makes him come across as kind of a dick.
Also, he is making a real sacrifice - one in terms of time/effort teaching him to code, and two in terms of reputation/job risk. If Leo fails, or if the media twists it the wrong way, McConlogue looks like a jackass and he seems smart enough to understand that.
This might sound obvious - but he was really teaching the man to catch fish, rather than feed him with it. He might turn out to be good, or bad fishermen, but at least he's trying.
I leave money to homeless people, but I do it since it makes me feel good. I do it for me first (to be honest), then for them. I wish I have the dedication to do what this young man did, because I often think how cool it would be, but I end up just giving money. huh...
I leave money to homeless people, but I do it since it makes me feel good. I do it for me first (to be honest), then for them. I wish I have the dedication to do what this young man did, because I often think how cool it would be, but I end up just giving money. huh...
Maybe this is just the cynic in me talking, but if his intentions were truly selfless, why are we aware of him and aware of his actions?
Somewhere along the line he helped make the world aware of his own actions.
Somewhere along the line he helped make the world aware of his own actions.
It is a serious issue, but I don't think the guy's goal was to reduce it to a game, but to do something well-intentioned.
In a lot of ways, what he's doing, on a small scale, is similar to the street newspaper concept that has gained significant popularity in cities worldwide. (Disclosure: I do some volunteer layout for such a newspaper.) The guy has a way to build income for himself now, and has learned skills which could someday be useful. But most importantly, he didn't have a creative idea foisted onto him. He came up with it on his own. It might not make him a ton of money, but there is the potential it'll make him a few dollars he didn't have before.
That part about coming up with the idea on his own is huge—way huger than you think. That is something that will help Leo build confidence in his own talents. It's exactly why street newspapers are largely written by the homeless, rather than merely sold by them.
I'm not saying that this is going to solve anything, and as we've learned from similar stories (golden-voiced Ted Williams, made-over veteran James Wolf), these situations often turn dark and raise huge ethical questions the second the person relapses in any way. So maybe it's not good that our energy is focused on two guys, one of whom may find himself unprepared for the pressures of unexpected fame.
But I think that there's something to be said about the fact that McConlogue is thinking about how to scale the concept. If he turns this idea into a nonprofit driven by donations, who knows what could happen next?
I don't think anyone expects what happened here to solve the problem. But there's some room to expand and build this idea. What if, like street newspapers, this concept grows into a way to build apps for the homeless, apps that work on easily-obtainable prepaid phones that help the homeless obtain easy access to public resources often hidden away by paperwork or location, or apps that make it easier to receive assistance from a bystander? Maybe you could even create a task-based micropayment app that allows people in such situations to raise money for themselves by performing small tasks like taking photos or reporting on their surroundings—say, a Mechanical Turk for mobile. Perhaps it could use a gameplay style similar to Waze or Foursquare? I'm spitballing here, but you see what I'm shooting for.
Maybe it's wrong that we're focusing our energy on a single tree when there's clearly a forest that needs to be dealt with first. But you know what? I'd rather that someone at least try to plant a seed rather than immediately dismiss the idea out of hand.
In a lot of ways, what he's doing, on a small scale, is similar to the street newspaper concept that has gained significant popularity in cities worldwide. (Disclosure: I do some volunteer layout for such a newspaper.) The guy has a way to build income for himself now, and has learned skills which could someday be useful. But most importantly, he didn't have a creative idea foisted onto him. He came up with it on his own. It might not make him a ton of money, but there is the potential it'll make him a few dollars he didn't have before.
That part about coming up with the idea on his own is huge—way huger than you think. That is something that will help Leo build confidence in his own talents. It's exactly why street newspapers are largely written by the homeless, rather than merely sold by them.
I'm not saying that this is going to solve anything, and as we've learned from similar stories (golden-voiced Ted Williams, made-over veteran James Wolf), these situations often turn dark and raise huge ethical questions the second the person relapses in any way. So maybe it's not good that our energy is focused on two guys, one of whom may find himself unprepared for the pressures of unexpected fame.
But I think that there's something to be said about the fact that McConlogue is thinking about how to scale the concept. If he turns this idea into a nonprofit driven by donations, who knows what could happen next?
I don't think anyone expects what happened here to solve the problem. But there's some room to expand and build this idea. What if, like street newspapers, this concept grows into a way to build apps for the homeless, apps that work on easily-obtainable prepaid phones that help the homeless obtain easy access to public resources often hidden away by paperwork or location, or apps that make it easier to receive assistance from a bystander? Maybe you could even create a task-based micropayment app that allows people in such situations to raise money for themselves by performing small tasks like taking photos or reporting on their surroundings—say, a Mechanical Turk for mobile. Perhaps it could use a gameplay style similar to Waze or Foursquare? I'm spitballing here, but you see what I'm shooting for.
Maybe it's wrong that we're focusing our energy on a single tree when there's clearly a forest that needs to be dealt with first. But you know what? I'd rather that someone at least try to plant a seed rather than immediately dismiss the idea out of hand.
It's interesting that you mentioned the newspaper model, because that's actually what I had it on the back of my mind when I wrote my comment above: The newspapers you are referring to actually have a history rooted in social-justice activism and grassroots movements, which are very different from the patronizing approach McConlogue decided to take. I do not see a minimal interest in his Medium blog, in the video, or anywhere else related to the homeless issues, their lives, how they got there, and so on. To the contrary, his choice of words are actually offensive and demeaning.
I suggest you take a look at his Medium blog.
I suggest you take a look at his Medium blog.
Poverty (in the US) is rooted in income and intelligence, and income is tied to education[1].
Please explain to me how directly getting in and spending time educating someone is 'turning it into a game'.
[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States#Fa...
Please explain to me how directly getting in and spending time educating someone is 'turning it into a game'.
[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States#Fa...
This seems like a cart before the horse situation. If someone was willing to invest in Grand to educate him to program, why would they also not invest in his overall wellbeing? Why did he have to be continue to be homeless to accomplish this if he had someone helping him out?
If it was me helping, I could afford to invest a certain amount in someone and help them learn to code, but providing enough money for stable housing is probably beyond my capability.
[deleted]
What if all a homeless person needs to succeed is the patronizing goodwill of a privileged narcissistic clown, and you're wrong that mental health and poverty on the other side of the scale are enough to tip it in the direction of enduring homelessness?
If this is the case how would we know it - what data points would show it? And how might a report on those look?
If this is the case how would we know it - what data points would show it? And how might a report on those look?
This is gobsmackingly negative. How did this person harm anyone? Leo now has some programming skills which might eventually find him a job and a better life.
What have you done for anyone lately?
What have you done for anyone lately?
By that reasoning, helping someone who has fallen on hard times by teaching him/her new skills is counterproductive? That doesn't really make a lot of sense.
Thank you! Almost forgot that we shouldn't spend time teaching willing people in rough situations useful things because it's narcissistic and patronizing.
I appreciate your reminder that the correct approach is to keep a safe distance and loudly bemoan the problem as "a complex issue".
I appreciate your reminder that the correct approach is to keep a safe distance and loudly bemoan the problem as "a complex issue".
I actually agree with the view you express here. While I find the story to be positive - after all, it is apparent that someone did something nice for someone else and improved their life a great deal - I think you are right to say that it is a disservice to the gravity of homelessness in the United States. It is such a complex problem, as you said, rooted in extremely serious issues like mental health, wealth inequality, and lack of proper healthcare. While I love to talk about how code literacy is the solution to many problems, it really has almost zero salience to the topic of homelessness. Ultimately, what helped this guy was the kindness of a complete stranger. Not the education. Not the computer.
How did he reduce it to a game? According to the story the "narcissist" actually sat with this guy for many hours teaching him how to code. He gave his time and effort to teach someone new skills. New wealth was earned. Pretty great really.
[deleted]
Wow, I can't believe there are people like you around. Your comment is nothing but negative. What do you consider a positive story ? How did he reduce it to a game ? What are you talking about ?
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6441795
....every single time. Now watch as the comment section get destroyed. It's already the top-comment. By the time my comment is 12hrs old, this comment thread will take up 2 screen lengths and hardly any other comments will occur outside of it.... that is, if HN's algo doesn't drop this story from the frontpage in the next 15mins.
....every single time. Now watch as the comment section get destroyed. It's already the top-comment. By the time my comment is 12hrs old, this comment thread will take up 2 screen lengths and hardly any other comments will occur outside of it.... that is, if HN's algo doesn't drop this story from the frontpage in the next 15mins.
Glad to see this app launched.
While I firmly believe that its not necessarily the best idea that "everyone" learns to code I think stories like this serve as a reminder that hard times fall on all of us.
Thanks Patrick for not judging Leo to be someone he was not simply because he had fallen.
Thanks for setting an example that sometimes its the littlest things, small acts of kindness that can set a person's life back on track.
And Leo, Thanks for reminding us all that with a little perseverance we can accomplish anything we put our minds to.
While I firmly believe that its not necessarily the best idea that "everyone" learns to code I think stories like this serve as a reminder that hard times fall on all of us.
Thanks Patrick for not judging Leo to be someone he was not simply because he had fallen.
Thanks for setting an example that sometimes its the littlest things, small acts of kindness that can set a person's life back on track.
And Leo, Thanks for reminding us all that with a little perseverance we can accomplish anything we put our minds to.
I love the story here.
While the PR is strong Leo should put on his conversion hat to generate actual downloads and turn this from a story into a success.
1) On the landing page, http://www.treesforcars.com, he needs as strong of a brief headline as they have in the article eg:
"Trees for Cars is a mobile application that aims to save the environment by helping users carpool to their destination."
2) Ditto on the app store description which, instead of the description, starts with a 3-liner clarifying Leo coded this himself.
More pictures / longer description on the description will also help.
Great primer @ Copyhackers on writing effective App Store copy http://copyhackers.com/2012/06/how-to-write-an-app-store-des...
While the PR is strong Leo should put on his conversion hat to generate actual downloads and turn this from a story into a success.
1) On the landing page, http://www.treesforcars.com, he needs as strong of a brief headline as they have in the article eg:
"Trees for Cars is a mobile application that aims to save the environment by helping users carpool to their destination."
2) Ditto on the app store description which, instead of the description, starts with a 3-liner clarifying Leo coded this himself.
More pictures / longer description on the description will also help.
Great primer @ Copyhackers on writing effective App Store copy http://copyhackers.com/2012/06/how-to-write-an-app-store-des...
Ok, my name is Leo and I'm an Android developer. In 2000 I actually investigated the potential of dynamic ride sharing and came to the conclusion it is not feasible due to software being in the hands of the network and device providers. Later, when Android and iOS came along I had other stuff to do but noticed how many tried to enter in this market and my conclusion is still that you would have to seed it in a way that you get at least 10,000 users in one big city to start with.
10,000 global users will just not cut it by many orders of magnitude. Charging $1 for an app to try it out will not help to get to critical mass.
Please, other Leo, make the first year for free for your own and nature's good. I'm dreaming of ad hock ride shares becoming a reality since sooooo long and guess it would only work if it was pre-installed and activated by default on many many phones but then it could really have a huge impact on the global CO2 output.
Further thoughts on the app: Make it social:
10,000 global users will just not cut it by many orders of magnitude. Charging $1 for an app to try it out will not help to get to critical mass.
Please, other Leo, make the first year for free for your own and nature's good. I'm dreaming of ad hock ride shares becoming a reality since sooooo long and guess it would only work if it was pre-installed and activated by default on many many phones but then it could really have a huge impact on the global CO2 output.
Further thoughts on the app: Make it social:
* Users should be able to pick who they want to ride with, including age, sex, car brand etc. Stricter filters are less rides.
* Users should be able to pick who they don't want to ride with, little or bad feedback for example
* Users should be able to contact their ride partners without sharing any Facebook names, phone numbers etc.
* Optionally Users should be checked in on their rides for security. For extra paranoia, the app could send a special message to a contact person if the user doesn't check out from a ride. Ride sharing is little popular out of security concerns and full track of one's movement with check-in on a ride should reduce risks involved dramatically.
* Let the driver define a price per km (for friends, friends of friends, others)
* ask if you want more ideas. This is endless but I guess my post will not be noticed by the other Leo anyway ;)Sorry, but you're asking a homeless guy who has just made his first app to make it free? Look, I'm all for nature, but I'm more for giving him a chance to make a good living.
Love the idea of this. Perhaps instead of "little feedback", which could leave people new to the app with no-one to carpool with, you could restrict results to those who have verified a Facebook profile.
The idea being that friends can confirm users are who/what they say they are
The idea being that friends can confirm users are who/what they say they are
I feel like freemium would be a good move in this case. Make it free with ads, with an option to make a $1 dev donation to remove the ads. People who have been digging this story can help Leo out, people who are just using the app because it's useful still get it for free.
I hate this story. It's pure exploitation.
Firstly, and most importantly, Leo is still homeless.
Second, who the hell is Patrick McConlogue? This whole charade is like the film Trading Places, it's like those awful Bum Fights videos, it's Patrick using a homeless person as an object of amusement.
Some aspects of the story seem implausible, e.g. how does a homeless person afford to pay the developer fees, or supply a valid home address and tax ID number for validation by Apple and Google, but I guess it doesn't really matter given the overall story.
I think people like Patrick, along with the 'everybody can code' movement, do all programmers a disservice. It makes a mockery of those who treat software development as a true profession and craft.
Finally, nobody seems to be talking about Leo's homelessness and how he's going to survive a bitterly cold winter, it's all about a stupid bloody app.
Firstly, and most importantly, Leo is still homeless.
Second, who the hell is Patrick McConlogue? This whole charade is like the film Trading Places, it's like those awful Bum Fights videos, it's Patrick using a homeless person as an object of amusement.
Some aspects of the story seem implausible, e.g. how does a homeless person afford to pay the developer fees, or supply a valid home address and tax ID number for validation by Apple and Google, but I guess it doesn't really matter given the overall story.
I think people like Patrick, along with the 'everybody can code' movement, do all programmers a disservice. It makes a mockery of those who treat software development as a true profession and craft.
Finally, nobody seems to be talking about Leo's homelessness and how he's going to survive a bitterly cold winter, it's all about a stupid bloody app.
>Finally, nobody seems to be talking about Leo's homelessness and how he's going to survive a bitterly cold winter,
If everyone keeps talking about Leo and his app, he'll have more than enough money to get off the streets, assuming his homelessness wasn't caused by mental illness or addiction.
If everyone keeps talking about Leo and his app, he'll have more than enough money to get off the streets, assuming his homelessness wasn't caused by mental illness or addiction.
If the app sells on its own merit, great.
However, if people are only buying the app out of charity for Leo, it's no different than any other sad story which gets media attention resulting in charitable donations.
So what would the point have been of learning to code? Heck, the story might as well have been Leo getting taught a foreign language so he could do translation work over the internet via sites like CrowdFlower.
The idea that homeless people can code their way out of a terrible situation, when well-fed, pampered and experienced programmers can't even make decent money from the app store, is simply a farce.
However, if people are only buying the app out of charity for Leo, it's no different than any other sad story which gets media attention resulting in charitable donations.
So what would the point have been of learning to code? Heck, the story might as well have been Leo getting taught a foreign language so he could do translation work over the internet via sites like CrowdFlower.
The idea that homeless people can code their way out of a terrible situation, when well-fed, pampered and experienced programmers can't even make decent money from the app store, is simply a farce.
Man, I never wanted to swear more than right now. You're a truly awful person.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6441795
(seriously, you again?)
(seriously, you again?)
What is your point exactly?
Does this seem exploitative to other people? Although it is exciting that his app launched, the fact that this entrepreneur is being called "The Homeless Coder" seems wrong to me.
I think the difference is nobody is exploiting anybody else. "Leo the Homeless Coder" is exploiting himself for profit, but Patrick McConlogue is not exploiting anybody. I'm not 100% sure what his specific motivation was, but it doesn't seem like Patrick is attempting to profit off this in any way.
It seems like an interesting social experiment.
There was a documentary a while back of a homeless guy given $100,000 and no restrictions.
http://voices.yahoo.com/a-homeless-man-blows-100000-free-mon...
There was a documentary a while back of a homeless guy given $100,000 and no restrictions.
http://voices.yahoo.com/a-homeless-man-blows-100000-free-mon...
Devil's advocate for a sec--assuming Leo coded the app and Patrick isn't using him for PR, yes.
Exploitation isn't always about money.
Some people just love the power trip, watching others dance to their tune.
Some people just love the power trip, watching others dance to their tune.
Not every exchange of power is exploitive.
It seems perfectly reasonable to market this as aggressively as possible.
It's not like he's rolling in money, and it's not like his mentor is taking a cut.
It's not like he's rolling in money, and it's not like his mentor is taking a cut.
Yeah. Sort of like the Wesley Willis of the hacking culture.
Wesley Willis was schizophrenic and no amount of casual intervention was going to meaningfully improve his circumstances. And, yes, Willis was exploited terribly.
This, today, is just a guy who wants to learn how to code. Good for him; I wish him the best.
This, today, is just a guy who wants to learn how to code. Good for him; I wish him the best.
It's interesting to see how 1st world-ish are the problems that are being solved nowadays, even by a (hopefully not for long) homeless guy. Anyways, I'm really glad he managed to finish it, he's obviously a guy with lots of unused potential.
Solving real problems requires real leverage.
What a perfect week to launch the story in. Anyone can learn how to code once they put their mind to it.
Subtext: "...even a homeless person."
Hmm.
Hmm.
I have been thinking a lot about whether it would be possible to invest enough in someone that it got them off rock bottom.
I guess this is proof that it is possible.
It might be time to start asking the same question to some of the people around where I work.
I guess this is proof that it is possible.
It might be time to start asking the same question to some of the people around where I work.
I think Macdonough was smart to offer $100 or the opportunity to learn to code. It was a good way to screen out unmotivated people -- if someone is homeless and turns down $100, it's likely that that they're very motivated.
Yeah, I'm not sure it's a 100% reliable method though. Depends how recently the person has eaten (etc).
I'm assuming they bought him a chromebook. That's like saying do you want $100 cash or a $250 chromebook and coding lessons.
But unless he mentioned that when the decision was made, that should not affect the results.
that's true. i'm assuming when you actually ask someone: "100 bucks or coding lessons" the guy is going to be curious and ask a lot of questions.
Are you arguing that lack of motivation is the root cause of homelessness, rather than poverty and mental health issues?
Not at all, why would you think that? I'm arguing that learning how to code while living on the street is going to require a spectacular amount of motivation, and only a certain percent of people will be able to pull it off (not sure I could).
Since $100 has a higher marginal utility for a desperately poor homeless person than most people with adequate shelter, the fact that someone turns it down shows an uncommon amount of motivation.
But really, if you're going from what I said to "root causes of homelessness", I can't help but feel you're just looking to pick an argument.
Since $100 has a higher marginal utility for a desperately poor homeless person than most people with adequate shelter, the fact that someone turns it down shows an uncommon amount of motivation.
But really, if you're going from what I said to "root causes of homelessness", I can't help but feel you're just looking to pick an argument.
No, learning to code requires motivation. Turning down $100 in favor of coding lessons indicates that the person is motivated to try and learn to code. That's borne out by the fact that he's (maybe with some assistance) delivered an app to the marketplace.
So if I go to an upscale neighborhood and offer $100 at random, would that mean that anyone who refuses my offer is motivated enough to code?
Of course not, that's silly. We are discussing within the context of homelessness, in which the guy is playing a game with a vulnerable individual by offering an amount that is far higher than a change, but far lower that any developer (even junior) would consider an offensive offer for a mobile app.
Of course not, that's silly. We are discussing within the context of homelessness, in which the guy is playing a game with a vulnerable individual by offering an amount that is far higher than a change, but far lower that any developer (even junior) would consider an offensive offer for a mobile app.
'far lower that any developer (even junior) would consider an offensive offer for a mobile app'
I don't think you have the story straight. Patrick didn't get free labor, he taught Grand so he could create his own app (and maybe profit).
I don't think you have the story straight. Patrick didn't get free labor, he taught Grand so he could create his own app (and maybe profit).
This is way better than my first app, oh my goodness! Of course it didn't get me a ride to the gym (I live in Richmond, VA, wasn't likely) BUT it did work flawlessly.
How did he do iOS development on a Chromebook?
Looking at the screenshot it's 100% definitely a jQuery Mobile app, wrapped into native. Which is fine.
Since it's available simultaneously on Android, I'm assuming it's using one of those write-once build-anywhere mobile frameworks.
Judging by that UI screenshot it's jQuery mobile so he probably used phonegap to wrap it in a native app for both iOS and Android.
How would he use PhoneGap on a Chromebook? You still need to have X Code to sign an iOS application.
I assume his mentor was the one who packaged them up for Android and iOS (especially since it's listed under his name on the iOS App Store).
I assume his mentor was the one who packaged them up for Android and iOS (especially since it's listed under his name on the iOS App Store).
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You can package the Phonegap App with Phonegap Build, a service running in the cloud for exactly this plattform-problem.
He might have used one of those cloud services that compiles your code on a Mac mini, but I don't know about him specifically.
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idk, was it an html5 mobile app?
I would love to see this thread turn into suggestions/advice for Leo on how he can improve his app. I bought it, despite having little idea what it does, and just wanting to support him.
My first suggestions if Leo ever reads this:
- Add more pictures to the app page/listing in itunes
- Show how it works
- Why is ridesharing good for the environment
I hate to be cynical, but it feels like this is mostly capitalizing on the idea of a "homeless coder". In order for the app idea to work, it needs people. Lots of people. A $0.99 app is never going to get enough users to be useful for MOST of us. If the idea and execution stood on its own, I wouldn't fault them for leveraging the backstory for media attention, but since the execution is favouring short term money at the cost of long term success, it feels like a cash-in.
Not that there is anything wrong with donating to support someone homeless working to get themselves into a better situation... or anything wrong with someone who needs so much trying to cash-in. It just doesn't feel like a good faith attempt to reduce CO2 emissions, that's all.
Not that there is anything wrong with donating to support someone homeless working to get themselves into a better situation... or anything wrong with someone who needs so much trying to cash-in. It just doesn't feel like a good faith attempt to reduce CO2 emissions, that's all.
I purchased without the intent to use it, I consider it as more of a donation.
That would be a donation to Apple or Google then. If you really cared, you'd take real action.
Don't tell people how to care. God I hate this comment so much, care however you want. Care a little bit and give him $0.70, care a lot and try to something, care any way you want.
I couldn't have said it better. Is HN mostly filled with bitter, sad and pessimistic little men. Honestly ... This is supposed to be a positive story. I can't believe the comments I'm reading.
I understand them, people are guarded and skeptical and they should be w/r/t the homeless. They are exploited almost by design at every level. This isn't what happened here, and I actually think what happened here is a model for starting to think about the "working class" going forward. The fact that lots of "working class" jobs are gone now is causing serious problems - but what if what we traditionally think of as the working class becomes low-level IT and other, newer fields. It's not about teaching everyone to code - it's about re-thinking the economy.
Dude get out of this thread now, so many of these comments are infuriating. This is possibly the worst HN thread I have ever read.
Have you ever read a thread about gender issues? It's worse.
Side note: I appreciate the concern over whether this is exploitative. It doesn't make me mad. If you've read the stories, it hasn't been at ALL or even close, but the concern is fine.
Side note: I appreciate the concern over whether this is exploitative. It doesn't make me mad. If you've read the stories, it hasn't been at ALL or even close, but the concern is fine.
I don't know -- the concern seems more about political correctness than actually fixing a problem.
And as someone who has been here for a while (a throwaway became my main account), this is probably the most disheartening thread I've ever read here. Where's the hacker mentality of trying to make something better? Criticize if you absolutely must, but then you damn sure better have a better idea on hand than "it's a complex problem".
And as someone who has been here for a while (a throwaway became my main account), this is probably the most disheartening thread I've ever read here. Where's the hacker mentality of trying to make something better? Criticize if you absolutely must, but then you damn sure better have a better idea on hand than "it's a complex problem".
When the topic of gender issues come up it is a three or four sentence comment then a multi paragraph response so I don't make it very far in the thread's.
Is there another way to easily send him 70¢ while supporting his work and making him feel it has value other then buying that app that I'm unaware of? I'm not sure how much action constitutes "real" to you however pressing the buy button seemed to be a real action in my book.
And the 30% to Apple/Google is their share of building an ecosystem where a homeless guy with a laptop and some knowledge can produce a sellable product to help improve his life. They worked for that 30%.
And the 30% to Apple/Google is their share of building an ecosystem where a homeless guy with a laptop and some knowledge can produce a sellable product to help improve his life. They worked for that 30%.
70¢ to Leo, 30¢ to Apple/Google.
How do you know Leo gets the money?
We don't know, but everything Patrick stands to gain from this would be undermined by keeping the money. Everything except the money, and I doubt we're talking about enough to be worth a reputation.
Teach a man to fish. . . Purchased just to help him out, hope that 70¢ is helpful. Congrats to Leo.
Woah... He beat me to it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6721221 Actually a lot of people did. I had an rough idea for this but never got around to working on it. I do have Carpoolians.com registered though.
I really hope apps like his become something everyone uses in 5 years. Generally, people might not think carpooling strangers together will work but, contrary to popular belief, it's already tried and true in the Washington, DC area. Slug lines, where strangers are picked up from park ride lots by drivers so they can all use the HOV lanes, have been operational for years without a murder or incident.
I really hope apps like his become something everyone uses in 5 years. Generally, people might not think carpooling strangers together will work but, contrary to popular belief, it's already tried and true in the Washington, DC area. Slug lines, where strangers are picked up from park ride lots by drivers so they can all use the HOV lanes, have been operational for years without a murder or incident.
I thought he was in jail and his equipment had been taken, not to be returned for months? I haven't heard any updates on that lately.. Anyone know?
Is it me or did the video not explain the app at all?
This hasn't reached a flame war, did this get flagged off the front page? Is it because Slate is perhaps a marked site? This doesn't seem right, this is like a "Show HN" and followup to a story lots of people on HN have been following for a while now.
Nicely done. It's great watching a new coder spread his wings.
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Stories like this are actually a disservice to the cause of technology as an agent for social and environmental change.