Magnus Carlsen wins Game 6; leads Viswanathan Anand 4-2(dnaindia.com)
dnaindia.com
Magnus Carlsen wins Game 6; leads Viswanathan Anand 4-2
http://www.dnaindia.com/sport/report-magnus-carlsen-wins-game-6-leads-viswanathan-anand-4-2-1920322
9 comments
Here's some great commentary of game 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvToX22oG8s
This kind of chess battle doesn't happen very often. We can compare it to Fisher-Spasski or Kasparov-Karpov.
If Carslen wins, this will be a generation change in the chess world.
Given the popularity of chess in Asia, it is estimated that about a billion of people are following this match[1].
[1] http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2013-11/14/mag...
If Carslen wins, this will be a generation change in the chess world.
Given the popularity of chess in Asia, it is estimated that about a billion of people are following this match[1].
[1] http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2013-11/14/mag...
It is insane that chess is a worldwide sport/game and still Carlsen only made about $1.2 million USD last year(a lot for me and anyone else I know but for a professional competitor it is quite low). For a sport that a billion people watch you'd think there would be a lot more sponsorships, media attention, etc.
It seems professional eating has more invested in it.
Provided the Wikipedia article is correct.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_Carlsen
Provided the Wikipedia article is correct.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_Carlsen
Probably has a bit to do with the fact that Carlsen doesn't care about money, he only cares about chess. There was a tournament recently where he was offered a draw during the match, taking the draw would be a sure way for him to win the tournament and win the 1. place price money. He didn't, he went into an all in fight to win instead (risking his 1. place) - and pulled it off. Also, his father takes cares of his finances so that he doesn't have to deal with it, AFAIK.
Well, in my view that win also sent a message to Anand - perhaps that factored into the decision.
It's not that. It's just that Chess is a hard business to monetize.
That is very honorable. Carlsen is one impressive man. I hope he wins - his attitude and his energy seem to be revitalizing the sport, even here in the States.
Oh wow, the games lasted 5-6 hours on average. I though the normal time is 0.5-1.5 hour for a game. The players level of concentration must be immense.
One of Carlsen's advantages is that he can keep focused after others have become tired and start making mistakes. At elite level where everyone is able to last many hours, this must be quite a feat. I've seen him referred to as a "grinder".
A tournament game that lasts just 1.5 hours would be considered a very short game. My longest tournament game was 6 hours. Maintaining razor-sharp focus for that amount of time is incredibly difficult.
That's why modern players train so hard physically. It is an enormous physical strain.
GM King makes this very point in his concluding remarks about the last game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9h1UqIcrUw He agrees that the purely physical advantage of Carlsen is starting to tell.
GM King makes this very point in his concluding remarks about the last game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9h1UqIcrUw He agrees that the purely physical advantage of Carlsen is starting to tell.
The last two games have been really exciting, ending in two straight psychological blows to Anand in situations that should have been clear draws. Shows just how incredibly strong Magnus' end game is.
I wonder how Anand will come back after this, I recon if he does not get a good win in one of the following matches (he is white again on Monday) he won't be able to come back.
I wonder how Anand will come back after this, I recon if he does not get a good win in one of the following matches (he is white again on Monday) he won't be able to come back.
Fortunately for Vishy, Magnus is a fighter who wants to play interesting chess, and this will at least give him a chance as in the 3rd round. Carlsen has unmatched playing strength and I feel if he truly wanted a draw in each of the last six games he could force one and there would be little Anand could do about it. Were he another grandmaster I could see this being the case and it's certainly a legitimate tactic after taking the lead in a game limited match.
Ultimately I think Carlsen will win regardless - he's simply too strong and has been for a long time; if anything the title is overdue to be his.
Ultimately I think Carlsen will win regardless - he's simply too strong and has been for a long time; if anything the title is overdue to be his.
Ultimately I think Carlsen will win regardless - he's simply too strong and has been for a long time
Is it time for a new generation of competition between Carlsen and machines?
Is it time for a new generation of competition between Carlsen and machines?
The creator of Houdini 3 (one of the strongest chess solvers) was interviewed about it recently, he said the software is so good that it would probably win 8 times out of 10 (2 draws) against someone of Carlsen's strength. Carlsen on the other hand says that he doesn't care, it's not something he even thinks about.. And it's natural I guess, think back to the early days of any technology, people would do stuff faster, then after a while it doesn't even matter, nobody thinks about it. The days of chess man vs machine was back in the days of Deep Blue.
There is a really young chinese kid that's a real rising chess-whiz, give him a few more years and he will give Carlsen a real challenge. It's time for the new generation of chess players indeed :)
There is a really young chinese kid that's a real rising chess-whiz, give him a few more years and he will give Carlsen a real challenge. It's time for the new generation of chess players indeed :)
Wrt 'young Chinese kid' - Wei Yi - he is indeed a prodigy but there have been many prodigies and whilst they all end up very very vyer strong players by no means all of them challenge for the top spot.
If you look at the list of youngest GMs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_prodigy#List_of_youngest_...
you will see that of all these prodigies only a very small number are current super GMs with any real chance at the very top spot. Even Karjakin (a GM at 12) is currently not at that level.
For what it's worth my tip to be a serious challenge is Caruana.
Even Caruana has plateaued a bit the last few years, whereas Carlsen just keeps getting stronger. At Caruana's age, Carlsen's ELO was well into the 2800s. Right now Carlsen's competition looks pretty bleak.
Yes - I can't justify my instinct here.
I believe there have only ever been 7 players >2800 ELO and Caruana is one of them. But of those Kasparov is retired and Anand, Topalov and probably Kramnik have probably peaked. That leaves Carlsen - out on his own - and Aronian and Caruana.
Aronian has probably peaked (he is 31)which leaves Caruana. The next 2-3 years should tell us what he is capable of.
Probably not. I think that battle is over
I enjoy the pragmatic stance of Anand on the matter http://www.chessquotes.com/player-anand :
There are some things we do much better than computers, but since most of chess is tactically based they do many things better than humans. And this imbalance remains. I no longer have any issues. It’s bit like asking an astronomer, does he mind that a telescope does all the work. He is used to it. It is just an incredible tool that you can use.
I enjoy the pragmatic stance of Anand on the matter http://www.chessquotes.com/player-anand :
There are some things we do much better than computers, but since most of chess is tactically based they do many things better than humans. And this imbalance remains. I no longer have any issues. It’s bit like asking an astronomer, does he mind that a telescope does all the work. He is used to it. It is just an incredible tool that you can use.
The battle is not over, look at the last comment thread. It seems computers didn't predict what Carlsen saw: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6780928
Agreed. In fact you have to be an incredibly strong player (2600+) to not be wiped off the board in around 20 moves these days. The Bulgarian cheater who was recently banned regularly crushed GMs - it was scary.
I only became aware of the issue when reading these articles [1]. It's possible there's some leeway he's owed. I don't know enough about it, obviously.
[1] http://en.chessbase.com/post/a-gro-miscarriage-of-justice-in...
Full paper:
http://en.chessbase.com/portals/4/files/news/2011/riis01.pdf
[1] http://en.chessbase.com/post/a-gro-miscarriage-of-justice-in...
Full paper:
http://en.chessbase.com/portals/4/files/news/2011/riis01.pdf
The "Bulgarian cheater" he's referring to is Borislav Ivanov (http://en.chessbase.com/tagged?tag=Cheating). The evidence against him is overwhelming, especially this statistical analysis of Ivanov's games (http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/~regan/chess/fidelity/ACPcover-an...)
The links you posted are about Vasik Rajlich, who was banned from the World Computer Chess Championships over allegations of GPL violations.
The links you posted are about Vasik Rajlich, who was banned from the World Computer Chess Championships over allegations of GPL violations.
That's right. I was referring to Ivanov and he was well and truly busted recently and has now 'retired.'
But, don't you think that there is room for improvement on the humand side? probably with creativity.
Creativity (and carlsen is a big creativity player in the early game) doesn't really matter as long as the computer is strong enough to explore most, if not all game branches in the end game 20 moves deep. A really good player can only hope to draw.
Hard to see what it could mean. And even if some genius came up with some currently inconceivable insight that could also be added to the computer's repetoire.
According to interviews with the people around him, he's not interested in beating machines.
I would say Carlsen's stamina is what bringing him the victories. Anand is not being able to keep his concentration on high level after 5 hours of battle. Clearly shows the age difference.
His stamina is undoubtedly a major strength. And this is allied with his uncanny ability to keep pressure on his opponents in even the most apparently even positions. This pressure mounts and the psychological impact is devastating because his opponent knows that the most tiny inaccuracy will be noted and he will immediately be under still more pressure. This pressure to play perfectly is gruelling over 6-7 hours. The thing that most people don't appreciate is that a player like Carlsen, even against the most phenomenal opponent like Anand, is like a python, the slightest pause for breath, the most minute inaccuracy, and the coils tighten. It's suffocating.
Agree 100%. In this regard, Carlsen's playing style reminds me of Bobby Fischer, who was legendary for playing on (and winning) from equal positions.
Indeed, carlsen is also in incredible good shape in addition to his young age. Regularly works out, plays soccer on the side (and is actually quite good at soccer).
You can see Anand getting tired from sitting in the same position some of the matches, moving about in his chair.
You can see Anand getting tired from sitting in the same position some of the matches, moving about in his chair.
That can't explain everything though. Carlsen's playing at a much higher level than Anand ever did in his prime. Even accounting for inflation, Carlsen's ELO is much higher than Anand's ever been.
If you want to check out the games so far: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=81142
Phew, game #2 is a real blood bath: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1736633
Phew, game #2 is a real blood bath: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1736633
Is there anywhere to see the moves they play? I know they publish the moves in text format, but I'd like to see the movement visually.
All the games with commentary / analysis:
http://www.youtube.com/user/thechesswebsite
http://www.youtube.com/user/thechesswebsite
Here's a live retransmission from the official website of the match: http://chennai2013.fide.com/anand-carsen-game-1-live-analysi...
there are many places
www.chessbase.com has great reporting with in depth analysis and photos.
and
www.chessbomb.com has live coverage with GM analysis.
All these kinds of chess sites offer js boards so you can step thru the moves and the analysis.
And there is analysis on youtube. This tends to be of uneven quality tho. I recommend powerplay chess channel with Adrian King - a GM.
Chess is the one game I've tried dedicating time to yet I feel like I still make 0 progress.
I don't know what you mean by progress (you may already be at a level that is considered quite strong by a non-chess player), and I'm not a brilliant chess player myself, but my personal experience was that I very quickly progressed at the beginning, just by learning a decent selection of game openings. If you know enough of them to a decent depth, you first 5-6 moves can be made very quickly without sacrificing position. If you're playing against someone that hasn't studied openings, you have a good chance of creating an insurmountable lead in those first 5-6 moves, as well as saving time for thinking later in the game.
If you're playing against a good player, at least you won't immediately cede the game in the opening.
The next step that I found helpful was to play against a computer, but to have a real board set up, where I could play through different options to see where they lead. Here you have no time limit, so you can really take your time. I found that if I forced myself to take a minimum of five minutes of doing this, I could regularly beat the computer (in this respect it seems a bit binary - at a given difficulty setting, the computer beats you every time, until one day you skill edges past the computer, and now you beat it every time - there doesn't seem to be a phase where the outcome is unsure).
These two tactics advanced my game to a point where I could win about 50% of the time on blitz-chess sites - the good players would still thrash me, and I would completely thrash novices. Getting better from that point seems more difficult though, and seems to revolve around sinking massive amounts of time into the habit. Increasing your opening library knowledge gets exponentially expensive. Improving your mid-game analysis speed also seems to be very slow (although this seems to be linear, not like the opening library). I stopped developing chess at this point because I realized that I wasn't prepared to spend the time needed to become a competitive chess player - I'm good enough that I can beat most non-regular chess players, and that's good enough for me...
If you're playing against a good player, at least you won't immediately cede the game in the opening.
The next step that I found helpful was to play against a computer, but to have a real board set up, where I could play through different options to see where they lead. Here you have no time limit, so you can really take your time. I found that if I forced myself to take a minimum of five minutes of doing this, I could regularly beat the computer (in this respect it seems a bit binary - at a given difficulty setting, the computer beats you every time, until one day you skill edges past the computer, and now you beat it every time - there doesn't seem to be a phase where the outcome is unsure).
These two tactics advanced my game to a point where I could win about 50% of the time on blitz-chess sites - the good players would still thrash me, and I would completely thrash novices. Getting better from that point seems more difficult though, and seems to revolve around sinking massive amounts of time into the habit. Increasing your opening library knowledge gets exponentially expensive. Improving your mid-game analysis speed also seems to be very slow (although this seems to be linear, not like the opening library). I stopped developing chess at this point because I realized that I wasn't prepared to spend the time needed to become a competitive chess player - I'm good enough that I can beat most non-regular chess players, and that's good enough for me...
You must have been using a computer from 1960. There is no way that you would ever end up beating a modern chess program for the simple reason that they are now stronger than super GMs.
Key phrase there is "at a given difficulty setting."
I actually found playing against a computer to be extremely frustrating from the perspective of trying to learn & better my game. Computers simply do not play chess in a style that's comparable to human chess players. Human chess players that are far better than I am and will win 90% of games against me still occasionally miss tactics or fail to evaluate a position properly. That's absolutely not true of a computer by default.
Playing long games was fantastic for improving my chess. Most chess teachers also advocate long games as the best way to improve your game. The two ways I found to play long games, were to go to my local chess club and sign up for tournaments and to play in leagues on ICC, the internet chess club.
Playing long games was fantastic for improving my chess. Most chess teachers also advocate long games as the best way to improve your game. The two ways I found to play long games, were to go to my local chess club and sign up for tournaments and to play in leagues on ICC, the internet chess club.
Chess is as much a psychological battle as it is a technical one. Playing against computers is really a different thing.
Agreed, a computer doesn't have intentions. Playing against a real human player you can disrupt their intentions and/or surprise them. That's obviously not possible with a computer.
Same here. I'm guessing the amount of time you need to practice to see any sort of progress is far greater than what I've put in.
You're right in that there's a mess of openings and endgame theory to know if you want to start competing seriously, but it's also possible to improve your tactical vision - which is the bulk of your practical playing strength - just with daily problem solving. http://chesstempo.com/ is a great site for it (not my site, just one I'm happy to recommend.)
Yes - it's a good site.
Anand should retire and pass on the baton to younger generation.
I have never understood what such statements mean. I mean, he is not holding people back by saying, "hey! you don't get to play till I am here!"
Exactly my point.
Why?
He is still a great player.
[1] http://www.twitch.tv/chessnetwork
[2] http://chennai2013.fide.com/anand-carlsen-video-with-comment...