Bum-a-Cigarette App Idea. Thoughts?(visakanv.com)
visakanv.com
Bum-a-Cigarette App Idea. Thoughts?
http://www.visakanv.com/blog/2013/09/bum-a-cigarette-app-idea/
10 comments
On a personal level I would not really appreciate something that encourages more smoking (Everywhere I go I have to deal with other people's smoking, it's noxious and I don't see a good argument to letting people smoke in places like public parks or walking along sidewalks, yet it happens all the time).
But on the more business-y level, this does seem interesting. Ideally, there's a big potential market for people bumming cigarettes , especially in crowded areas. But I see two major problems:
- In crowded areas, how do you identify who the seller/buyer is ? There's a contacting issue (maybe face pics could solve this).
- As mentioned by gedrap, you'd need a pretty big density for this. People aren't willing to cross town to get a cig like they would to pick up free cupboards.
Honestly, a better solution for this would probably be a sort of dispensary where you could just deposit cigs somewhere and people could buy them. Or just cut out the user-aspect, and make a single-cigarette dispensary. That would avoid quality problems. Unfortunately this solution isn't necessarily "interesting", but it's probably the most "correct".
But on the more business-y level, this does seem interesting. Ideally, there's a big potential market for people bumming cigarettes , especially in crowded areas. But I see two major problems:
- In crowded areas, how do you identify who the seller/buyer is ? There's a contacting issue (maybe face pics could solve this).
- As mentioned by gedrap, you'd need a pretty big density for this. People aren't willing to cross town to get a cig like they would to pick up free cupboards.
Honestly, a better solution for this would probably be a sort of dispensary where you could just deposit cigs somewhere and people could buy them. Or just cut out the user-aspect, and make a single-cigarette dispensary. That would avoid quality problems. Unfortunately this solution isn't necessarily "interesting", but it's probably the most "correct".
> make a single-cigarette dispensary
.. or sell them in the same places packs get sold, whether that's shops or bars or machines or wherever.
.. or sell them in the same places packs get sold, whether that's shops or bars or machines or wherever.
That's not legal in the UK, where people buying single cigs tend to be children.
Didn't know that - shame really, under-age smoking should be combated by enforcing ID checking.
We tend to use a combination of measures.
18 is the legal minimum age to buy cigs (recently raised from 16) and shops should be checking ID. Ideally they check if they think the purchaser is under 21.
We combine that with other stuff - advertising bans, placement restrictions inside shops, quantities sold, eye-watering tax levels, etc.
Some of these are counter productive. The high tax rate means many cigs are smuggled into the country. And this is a route for counterfeit product. Legal cigs are harmful enough, but some of the counterfeit product is worse, contaminated with a variety of weird stuff.
Banning smoking in public buildings (something I'm in favour of) means a few people smoke in their cars, but with their children in the car too. That's pretty bad. Many children are admitted to hospital because their parents smoke, and so increasing the tobacco smoke that children are exposed to feels like a bad idea.
I'm generally tolerant of government regulation, but we have too much in the UK.
18 is the legal minimum age to buy cigs (recently raised from 16) and shops should be checking ID. Ideally they check if they think the purchaser is under 21.
We combine that with other stuff - advertising bans, placement restrictions inside shops, quantities sold, eye-watering tax levels, etc.
Some of these are counter productive. The high tax rate means many cigs are smuggled into the country. And this is a route for counterfeit product. Legal cigs are harmful enough, but some of the counterfeit product is worse, contaminated with a variety of weird stuff.
Banning smoking in public buildings (something I'm in favour of) means a few people smoke in their cars, but with their children in the car too. That's pretty bad. Many children are admitted to hospital because their parents smoke, and so increasing the tobacco smoke that children are exposed to feels like a bad idea.
I'm generally tolerant of government regulation, but we have too much in the UK.
In theory, it is enforced by ID checking. In theory.
That's a very common practice here in Brazil. In my region we call it "Cigarro picado" (sliced cigarette).
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I don't think it's a problem. Most people would feel insulted if you offer money when bumming a cigarette. It's like "Dude !". Cash is vulgar in the "bumming" frame. The way to reframe it if you really want to pay is to say: "Can you sell me a cigarette?" and not bum it. But even then, people will tend to give it to you for free.
So unless the person is really poor, they won't accept money. And even then, there's some "I'm poor but generous" going on.
It's an interesting concept, though. But in my opinion, one should remove cash from the equation.
The other question that would arise would be : If you remove cash, then a person could have to lose after having so many bummers come to them. This can easily be solved by fixing how many cigarettes a person could give before disappearing from the map to bummers. The "pack-owner" can set the number to 5 if in a good mood, after being bummed five times, he disappears from the app for that day or something.
Though it's amazing how prices vary: A pack here is about two bucks.. And, as you might have imagined, when there's a difference of potential, current flows: There's contraband and people smuggling cigarettes from here to Europe (France, especially). The average pure profit is 1,200 euros a trip (after accounting for all expenses, room, plane tickets, nights out...).
So unless the person is really poor, they won't accept money. And even then, there's some "I'm poor but generous" going on.
It's an interesting concept, though. But in my opinion, one should remove cash from the equation.
The other question that would arise would be : If you remove cash, then a person could have to lose after having so many bummers come to them. This can easily be solved by fixing how many cigarettes a person could give before disappearing from the map to bummers. The "pack-owner" can set the number to 5 if in a good mood, after being bummed five times, he disappears from the app for that day or something.
Though it's amazing how prices vary: A pack here is about two bucks.. And, as you might have imagined, when there's a difference of potential, current flows: There's contraband and people smuggling cigarettes from here to Europe (France, especially). The average pure profit is 1,200 euros a trip (after accounting for all expenses, room, plane tickets, nights out...).
I'd only feel insulted if it's someone I know who offers me cash - and even then it's only in a "dude what the fuck, why would I take your money" way that's forgotten 10 seconds after we light up.
In all other cases I much prefer when people offer to pay for a cigarette, even though I've never taken their money.
In all other cases I much prefer when people offer to pay for a cigarette, even though I've never taken their money.
Yeah .. It's weird, The Psychology of Bumming (c) (I can see Norvig's future "Teach Yourself How To Bum in Ten Years" or ESR's "How to Become a Bummer").
But in all seriousness, I get your point: It's not that you want their money, just want the gesture.
It happened I paid for their coffee, or gave a gum. Or proposed to buy it (for half of the pack's price). Reciprocity.
On another note, there's an amazing book by Robert Cialdini called "Influence: Science and Practice" (the old one, not the new) which should appeal to hackers: It's about hacking people's brain.
It is the greatest book I've read on the matter: All empirical data.
But in all seriousness, I get your point: It's not that you want their money, just want the gesture.
It happened I paid for their coffee, or gave a gum. Or proposed to buy it (for half of the pack's price). Reciprocity.
On another note, there's an amazing book by Robert Cialdini called "Influence: Science and Practice" (the old one, not the new) which should appeal to hackers: It's about hacking people's brain.
It is the greatest book I've read on the matter: All empirical data.
When your only tool is "Let's build an App for that"...
While it's an interesting idea (and I know the pain!) the problem is that you are out for a smoke for max 10 minutes. So there should be quite a lot of active users from the start, otherwise you check once, twice, no one is out there, forget it. Unless some people try to make some money of it using this app, by selling extremely overpriced cigarettes.
You could also try a credit based system. Every time someone gives away a cigarette (which I would always do when I smoked) they earn a credit that allows them to bum one from other participants in the future.
You could let people go "negative credit" too, and let other smokers choose a threshold below which they won't accept requests from moochers. "Man if someone is at -10 he should just buy a pack and give something back"
Then, when you are "burdened" with a pack, you can give them away, since you were probably going to throw it out anyway, and happily bum-a-smoke 18 times in the future before buying a new pack.
This avoids many of the legal and payment processing problems you might run in to if money is changing hands.
You could let people go "negative credit" too, and let other smokers choose a threshold below which they won't accept requests from moochers. "Man if someone is at -10 he should just buy a pack and give something back"
Then, when you are "burdened" with a pack, you can give them away, since you were probably going to throw it out anyway, and happily bum-a-smoke 18 times in the future before buying a new pack.
This avoids many of the legal and payment processing problems you might run in to if money is changing hands.
This really feels like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Feel ashamed when asking strangers for a cigarette? Then don't ask them. Or offer them money. Or do it anyway and just deal with it. Or just buy your own pack of cigarettes.
I was once in a situation where I was forced to bum smokes for several days while essentially living at an international airport (forced as in it was the only way I could smoke during that time). It was pretty scary, especially at first, but it led to some surprisingly amazing experiences. Learning how to bum a smoke (and really, the generalized skills that went into that) was one of the most beneficial things I've learned in life.
(Don't interpret this as me recommending smoking. Worst. Habit. Ever.)
(Don't interpret this as me recommending smoking. Worst. Habit. Ever.)
Out of interest why couldn't you buy cigarettes? Availability, laws, lack of money or other?
Perhaps this idea could be applied to a different commodity? One people are somewhat willing to travel for, this solves the density problem.
Also, I feel like we shouldn't be encouraging smoking. I feel like an app such as this would mostly be used by underage smokers…
Also, I feel like we shouldn't be encouraging smoking. I feel like an app such as this would mostly be used by underage smokers…
I dislike this. Bumming a cigarette is a social thing and has lead to meeting several friends.
would this reduce the social aspect, or actually increase it, by reducing fear of rejection you might end up interacting with all sorts of people you wouldn't normally contact to ask for a cigarette
I'm not sure what this fear of rejection is. Usually if you're bumming a smoke you're already a bit pissed.
So offer money when doing it. If I want to bum a smoke I'll offer a quid (£1 for 1/20th of an £8 pack) - more often than not, they'll give me a fag without taking the money. Equally when others offer me money for a cigarette I won't take it (while if they don't offer, I'll give them one anyway if I'm in a good mood... but not always).
The app seems to solve a problem I don't think really exists - trying to find smokers - while it's list of reasons (such as using money to make it less embarrassing) can be solved by individuals already, very easily.
Here's the app I'd find useful - where can I buy cigarettes, full packs. I have this problem when I go abroad (Paris, you need to find a bar not a shop. Vienna you seem to be shit out of luck on a Sunday - but maybe I looked in the wrong places), and I have this problem when I'm out late (last night I had to spend a while in London trying to find somewhere that was open late, and even then they only had one brand so I had to get that.. while paying a premium).