The first hack at TechCrunch Disrupt's hackathon is called TitStare.(aol.co.uk)
aol.co.uk
The first hack at TechCrunch Disrupt's hackathon is called TitStare.
http://www.aol.co.uk/video/titstare-demo-at-hackathon-sf-2013/517925671/
24 comments
IMO this is exactly the kind of event that demonstrates the purpose of Valleywag.
Hear, hear. The sooner brogramming culture slinks back into the slimy, pus-covered hole out of which it originally crawled, the better.
I'd like to think that, as technical people, we take pride in the quality of our work - its beauty, its innovation, its capability to make people's lives better in big or small ways (e.g. "meaningful hacks and projects"). Even if you set aside the misogyny (not that you should), is this something that the developer would be comfortable serving as a reflection of the sort of work that he does? Was his point presenting this to showcase innovation, cleverness, or execution, or was it to make people think he's a funny person? Stand-up comedy this certainly isn't.
I'd like to think that, as technical people, we take pride in the quality of our work - its beauty, its innovation, its capability to make people's lives better in big or small ways (e.g. "meaningful hacks and projects"). Even if you set aside the misogyny (not that you should), is this something that the developer would be comfortable serving as a reflection of the sort of work that he does? Was his point presenting this to showcase innovation, cleverness, or execution, or was it to make people think he's a funny person? Stand-up comedy this certainly isn't.
Making something called "TitStare" or even starring at breasts aren't the worst kind of sexism. Making something called "TitStare" and then thinking it would be ok AND funny to give a presentation on it in public to an unsuspecting audience at a tech conference, and therefore deciding it was ok to make the women in the audience feel objectified and unwelcome, IS.
This is just such a remarkably ugly and hateful thing to do, it makes me sick.
This is just such a remarkably ugly and hateful thing to do, it makes me sick.
I think it's hilarious. At the same time, they make fun of stereotypical phone applications and people staring at tits. Also, I don't believe it actually exists. They only show a screenshot and the presentation is way too funny.
You're right, it's his mistake to believe this event was going to be attended by adults instead of children.
A few notes from someone who watched this streaming live:
* The headline is wrong (according to my memory, haven't been able to confirm yet); this was roughly the 68th hack (minus no-shows) since they made a joke saying that the next act was #69. The headline text has been tweeted a bunch (and reported by Valleywag :)), though, and probably came from there.
* There was laughter during the presentation and applause afterward. A few hacks earlier was an adult-themed hack called CircleShake (http://www.aol.co.uk/video/circle-shake-demo-at-hackathon-sf...) which might have set the mood for the audience a bit.
* They had a break a few minutes later and after they came back the announcer mentioned that hack presentations need to meet a certain professional standard and that they wanted to have a better tone going forward.
* TechCrunch has apologized via Twitter ("We apologize for two inappropriate hackathon presentations earlier today. We will more carefully screen from now on.") and on their site (http://techcrunch.com/2013/09/08/an-apology-from-techcrunch/)
* Here is a mirror of the video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ausf5taq1vy4g04/AOL.co.uk%20-Video...
* The headline is wrong (according to my memory, haven't been able to confirm yet); this was roughly the 68th hack (minus no-shows) since they made a joke saying that the next act was #69. The headline text has been tweeted a bunch (and reported by Valleywag :)), though, and probably came from there.
* There was laughter during the presentation and applause afterward. A few hacks earlier was an adult-themed hack called CircleShake (http://www.aol.co.uk/video/circle-shake-demo-at-hackathon-sf...) which might have set the mood for the audience a bit.
* They had a break a few minutes later and after they came back the announcer mentioned that hack presentations need to meet a certain professional standard and that they wanted to have a better tone going forward.
* TechCrunch has apologized via Twitter ("We apologize for two inappropriate hackathon presentations earlier today. We will more carefully screen from now on.") and on their site (http://techcrunch.com/2013/09/08/an-apology-from-techcrunch/)
* Here is a mirror of the video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ausf5taq1vy4g04/AOL.co.uk%20-Video...
Pretty sure it was 68. I'm in the audience and presented my back earlier.
Although the hack was ridiculous, I think it's important to keep the facts straight. There was also a pretty awful 'asl' hack pitch later on, given by a woman. It definitely says something about TechCrunch that folks think this behaviour's OK at their event, but it was not their Disrupt keynote as some folks are seemingly interpreting! (It'll still hurt them a lot, though.)
The 9 year old girl (who went later) is far more worthy of the coverage. :-)
Although the hack was ridiculous, I think it's important to keep the facts straight. There was also a pretty awful 'asl' hack pitch later on, given by a woman. It definitely says something about TechCrunch that folks think this behaviour's OK at their event, but it was not their Disrupt keynote as some folks are seemingly interpreting! (It'll still hurt them a lot, though.)
The 9 year old girl (who went later) is far more worthy of the coverage. :-)
Ugh. One of the things Twitter's blowing up about is that this occurred after a 9 year old girl presented her hack. I'm one of the 'privileged young white males' people love to talk condescendingly about, and as someone fairly new to the tech scene I had thought all the sexism hand-wringing was a little blown out of proportion, but...really? Blows my mind that there really are people who think this is okay/funny and that the adults in charge didn't serve as an (unfortunately necessary) line of defense against this asshattery.
There is a lot of sexism out there for sure, but is this app doing any more than poking fun at men who were caught looking at womens' breasts? Are men out there really going to say that we never sneak a peek at a woman's cleavage? Is that sexist?
I understand that there are a lot of different perspectives though, so maybe some women out there could explain what I'm missing.
I understand that there are a lot of different perspectives though, so maybe some women out there could explain what I'm missing.
"Sneaking a peak at women's breasts" is fundamentally different than "presenting an app related to staring at women's tits at a tech conference to an audience of mixed gender and age, with widely varying sensibilities".
Checking out an attractive individual in a non-aggressive manner? Totally fine, carry on. Making as ass of yourself and possibly offending a ton of people? Not fine, GTFO.
This isn't about checking out attractive members of the opposite sex, it's about being potentially offensive in a totally inappropriate setting.
Checking out an attractive individual in a non-aggressive manner? Totally fine, carry on. Making as ass of yourself and possibly offending a ton of people? Not fine, GTFO.
This isn't about checking out attractive members of the opposite sex, it's about being potentially offensive in a totally inappropriate setting.
I don't see how there's anything fundamentally offensive about it. Maybe immature, but harmless from my point of view.
From your point of you, yes, that's exactly the problem.
I'm going to throw out a wild theory here: you're not a woman, are you?
No, but it's not just men versus women. I know plenty of women that would think it's funny. It seems like the thing here is that it was unprofessional, and some people don't like that. It's a valid opinion, but it's not along gender lines.
Hi. I'm a man, and I'll explain exactly what you're missing. There are no different perspectives that you need to try to understand.
This was a gutless, sexist, little shitfest in front of a tech audience in a supposedly professional forum, not someone sneaking a peak at a woman.
Do you and the rest of the geniuses who are unable to read the article and who are commenting below about "evolution" and other horseshit really, really not get this?
And to any other eternal 14 year olds out there who think there is anything "hilarious" about this, please understand that if you behave like the morons cited you will have an increasingly difficult time getting a job anywhere after a stunt like this. And many of us will make it our business to get in your face quite a bit more than that.
This was a gutless, sexist, little shitfest in front of a tech audience in a supposedly professional forum, not someone sneaking a peak at a woman.
Do you and the rest of the geniuses who are unable to read the article and who are commenting below about "evolution" and other horseshit really, really not get this?
And to any other eternal 14 year olds out there who think there is anything "hilarious" about this, please understand that if you behave like the morons cited you will have an increasingly difficult time getting a job anywhere after a stunt like this. And many of us will make it our business to get in your face quite a bit more than that.
What article was there? I just saw that there was a video that was unavailable.
How is this HN material?
But while we'ere here, can someone explain why the feeling of offence is something beyond the control of an individual, but is instead directly controlled by every other person on the planet?
Is it completely illogical to suggest that someone (or a room full of people) can /choose/ not to be offended, because they fully understand the the idea of freedom of speech?
Why is it always:
Someone said something -> I'm OFFENDED BY THAT. AARRGHH!!
Not:
Someone said something -> I didn't agree/like it -> That's OK.
But while we'ere here, can someone explain why the feeling of offence is something beyond the control of an individual, but is instead directly controlled by every other person on the planet?
Is it completely illogical to suggest that someone (or a room full of people) can /choose/ not to be offended, because they fully understand the the idea of freedom of speech?
Why is it always:
Someone said something -> I'm OFFENDED BY THAT. AARRGHH!!
Not:
Someone said something -> I didn't agree/like it -> That's OK.
Freedom of speech exists in the public, not private spheres.
In this case, apps such as Titstare being presented at an event (aimed at all ages), such as this, only reinforce the perception that such events are boys clubs for 18-35 year old guys who like staring at tits. Presumably, you want that image to change: isn't it worth imposing restrictions to reduce the amount of "offence" caused to people in order to bring this about?
In this case, apps such as Titstare being presented at an event (aimed at all ages), such as this, only reinforce the perception that such events are boys clubs for 18-35 year old guys who like staring at tits. Presumably, you want that image to change: isn't it worth imposing restrictions to reduce the amount of "offence" caused to people in order to bring this about?
i wish i could sit down with you and a few beers and explain it cuz it would take all night.
in a nutshell: we are conditioned to blame others to make us easier to control. This begins when we're children and for must of us continues through our working life until we're dead. A nation full of complainers is easier to ignore and run than a nation of people utilizing the nation's resources directly. (As Herman Hesse said, "A teacher would rather have a classroom full of donkeys than a single genius.") Just watch a group of grumbling work employees scatter when the boss comes around instead of grouping together to tell him/her how they really feel.
however, some of us learn to take responsibility for our own reactions. I now no longer have anyone else to blame for my own negative feelings (since watching a Jack Canfield video about 5 months ago. I tried to find it on the 'tube for ya just now but there are too many). Many might think this is bad, but just as Jack suggests, my mind simply works toward improving my situations instead of bitching about them. Instead of bitching about crappy music, I design new instruments.
I could go on and relate to you about all the screwed up examples of people I've seen, who set themselves up for the One Big Trauma they can milk for the rest of their lives for shallow sympathy for their con games, but I'm gonna take a sweet bike ride before the sun goes down and I've already given enough advice. peace, bastardus carborundum and all that.
in a nutshell: we are conditioned to blame others to make us easier to control. This begins when we're children and for must of us continues through our working life until we're dead. A nation full of complainers is easier to ignore and run than a nation of people utilizing the nation's resources directly. (As Herman Hesse said, "A teacher would rather have a classroom full of donkeys than a single genius.") Just watch a group of grumbling work employees scatter when the boss comes around instead of grouping together to tell him/her how they really feel.
however, some of us learn to take responsibility for our own reactions. I now no longer have anyone else to blame for my own negative feelings (since watching a Jack Canfield video about 5 months ago. I tried to find it on the 'tube for ya just now but there are too many). Many might think this is bad, but just as Jack suggests, my mind simply works toward improving my situations instead of bitching about them. Instead of bitching about crappy music, I design new instruments.
I could go on and relate to you about all the screwed up examples of people I've seen, who set themselves up for the One Big Trauma they can milk for the rest of their lives for shallow sympathy for their con games, but I'm gonna take a sweet bike ride before the sun goes down and I've already given enough advice. peace, bastardus carborundum and all that.
I'm not sure if you fully get the idea of freedom of speech. Some dudes can do a presentation at a hackathon and say whatever they want. Other folks can get on Hacker News comments and say whatever they want (about the first dudes).
And anyway, "freedom of speech" only exists as a law when applied to Congress. For the rest of us it's just a guideline.
And anyway, "freedom of speech" only exists as a law when applied to Congress. For the rest of us it's just a guideline.
I'm not sure why you think this is about feelings, and specifically feelings of offence. It's about the social structure of hacker culture, or about standards for professional and semi-professional programming events. It's about how people involved in this field expect to be treated, or not.
One way to give expression to a particular opinion would be expressing offence. (Another would be applauding.) If you ask me if I think this sort of thing is offensive, I will say "yes" -- after all, you asked me! -- but it's just a way of putting a marker this. It isn't anywhere close to the core of what I think about this topic.
One way to give expression to a particular opinion would be expressing offence. (Another would be applauding.) If you ask me if I think this sort of thing is offensive, I will say "yes" -- after all, you asked me! -- but it's just a way of putting a marker this. It isn't anywhere close to the core of what I think about this topic.
- Women who wear clothing designed to show cleavage
- Men who stare at cleavage
Discuss.
Wait, just to make it a little more useful:
- Men who giggle like children about their project aimed at the above two groups
- Men who stare at cleavage
Discuss.
Wait, just to make it a little more useful:
- Men who giggle like children about their project aimed at the above two groups
Men that ridicule Men who giggle like children about their project aimed at the above two groups https://twitter.com/kyledrake/status/376821198488731648
Disrupt: Junior High School Edition.
Quick, monetize the trend! Someone make a Cowclicker spinoff called 'Teatstare'!
They posted a screenshot to Twitter: https://twitter.com/HateYouCards/status/376735190434840576
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Someone is hacking Twitter accounts to defend TitStare:
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23titstare%20is%20awesome&src=...
"#TitStare is awesome. Stop hating you feminazis (or whiteknights) and take a joke"
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23titstare%20is%20awesome&src=...
"#TitStare is awesome. Stop hating you feminazis (or whiteknights) and take a joke"
Clearly a hack called Jackass that you run your presentation through to determine if you're a jackass or not is needed.
...and, video not found 11 minutes later.
Gotta love an inclusive environment.
Ah, our friendly reminder that we still has a few immature boys who think the tech scene is their private bachelor party.
in any case, the guys at Hacker News have now hidden this thread & the other one about TitStare, so we can all pretend the problem's gone away.
Is staring at tits sexist, or is it just a result of human evolution that affects us all, regardless of how sensitive we are to gender equality issues?
https://www.google.com/search?q=hillary+staring+at+christina
https://www.google.com/search?q=sophia+loren+staring+at+jayn...
https://www.google.com/search?q=hillary+staring+at+christina
https://www.google.com/search?q=sophia+loren+staring+at+jayn...
Overused and misused babble science theory.
Humans are emergent species. Even optical illusions, despite being used as evidence of ‘hard wiring’, have been further studied to be learned and emergent phenomena[1].
[1] EG: The Influence of Culture on Visual Perception, MH Segall, DT Campbell, MJ Herskovits - 1966
Humans are emergent species. Even optical illusions, despite being used as evidence of ‘hard wiring’, have been further studied to be learned and emergent phenomena[1].
[1] EG: The Influence of Culture on Visual Perception, MH Segall, DT Campbell, MJ Herskovits - 1966
That culture influences visual perception does not seem to preclude other evolutionary or biological influences on visual perception. I don't have the reference you provide, maybe you can tell me if that reference or others you have preclude evolutionary or biological influences on visual perception?
And even agreeing, okay, tit staring is a culturally influenced, a social construction, so what? You still don't describe how that makes it sexist and so should be shamed, especially in light of evidence that it affects both men and women.
Why are natural harmless instinctual reproductive behaviors that the culture associates with males worthy of shame?
And even agreeing, okay, tit staring is a culturally influenced, a social construction, so what? You still don't describe how that makes it sexist and so should be shamed, especially in light of evidence that it affects both men and women.
Why are natural harmless instinctual reproductive behaviors that the culture associates with males worthy of shame?
Its sexist and you're a grownup, presumably, who can control his reactions.
Why can't it be both?
If it happens to be a result of evolution, and I am not biologist, but if there are biological, evolutionary reasons for it, either because it helped program babies nursing, or because it was a replacement signal for buttocks when humans began to walk on two feet, then why call it the act of staring at breasts sexist?
It would be like saying a buffer overflow is sexist, or ctrl-alt-delete is sexist.
And calling the act sexist would serve to shame an activity that we all engage in due to primary biological programming.
Compare it to the discouragement we have to "slut shaming". If tit staring is basic human programming, something wired in to our brains, what are the benefits of shaming that activity? And if it is just an neurological tick we all have, is it accurate to call it a sexist behavior that presumably men and women can be weaned off of?
It would be like saying a buffer overflow is sexist, or ctrl-alt-delete is sexist.
And calling the act sexist would serve to shame an activity that we all engage in due to primary biological programming.
Compare it to the discouragement we have to "slut shaming". If tit staring is basic human programming, something wired in to our brains, what are the benefits of shaming that activity? And if it is just an neurological tick we all have, is it accurate to call it a sexist behavior that presumably men and women can be weaned off of?
We are not evolutionary automatons, we can override our programming at will. If something that served an evolutionary purpose a million years ago is no longer an appropriate behavior in our complex, modern society, then we simple don't do it any more.
I occasionally feel compelled to beat the living shit out of someone. This is probably an evolutionary impulse. Those who cross me in the jungle must be eliminated before they eliminate me, etc. But do I go around beating the hell out of people? Not a chance, absolutely never. Why? Because I don't want to live in a society where people solve differences with violence, and I don't feel violence on my part is necessary.
That being said, I definitely "notice" attractive individuals of the opposite sex. I don't harass, stalk, or assault them in any way, but I do notice them. I don't believe this is sexist. However, going up on a stage in front of people and making a joke about "staring at tits" might very well be construed as sexist because it goes well beyond the act of "noticing", and involves a mixed audience who may not all appreciate the concept.
I occasionally feel compelled to beat the living shit out of someone. This is probably an evolutionary impulse. Those who cross me in the jungle must be eliminated before they eliminate me, etc. But do I go around beating the hell out of people? Not a chance, absolutely never. Why? Because I don't want to live in a society where people solve differences with violence, and I don't feel violence on my part is necessary.
That being said, I definitely "notice" attractive individuals of the opposite sex. I don't harass, stalk, or assault them in any way, but I do notice them. I don't believe this is sexist. However, going up on a stage in front of people and making a joke about "staring at tits" might very well be construed as sexist because it goes well beyond the act of "noticing", and involves a mixed audience who may not all appreciate the concept.
I haven't said anything about whether the demo was appropriate or not. Just the behavior.
If it's an unconscious tick over and done with, much like a blink of an eye than it's not comparable to your beating someone up which would take this hypothetical compulsion of yours and render it into an act spanning minutes.
"We are not evolutionary automatons, we can override our programming at will."
Let me know how successful you are to not blinking, or not having goosebumps, or not feeling ticklish, not having a reflex, not being averse to certain odors, ...
If it's an unconscious tick over and done with, much like a blink of an eye than it's not comparable to your beating someone up which would take this hypothetical compulsion of yours and render it into an act spanning minutes.
"We are not evolutionary automatons, we can override our programming at will."
Let me know how successful you are to not blinking, or not having goosebumps, or not feeling ticklish, not having a reflex, not being averse to certain odors, ...
As I said, there is nothing offensive about noticing an attractive woman, I even admitted to doing it myself. But that doesn't, in any way, excuse the behaviour that motivated this discussion. That's my point. Even your bringing it up just distracts from the real issues, which are sexism, acceptance of potentially offensive actions, and the casual attitude with which those things are treated.
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Sexist. Next question?
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Zero fucks being given by these guys...
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In addition to being disrespectful to women, this kind of "joke" hack is also disrespectful to hacker culture and the people that want to participate in hackatons. Time is wasted presenting this crap which could have been spent showcasing real innovation and real hard work spent producing meaningful hacks and projects.
It pains me to link to Valleywag, but they have a video of both inappropriate demos, and unlike AOL (which owns TechCrunch) are unlikely to remove the videos.
http://valleywag.gawker.com/techcrunch-disrupt-kicks-off-wit...