The $12 Gongkai Phone(bunniestudios.com)
bunniestudios.com
The $12 Gongkai Phone
http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=3040
75 comments
It's not at all unusual to see separate CPU, RAM and flash memory in products like routers.
The thing is the interfaces between CPU, RAM and flash tend to use a lot of pins - especially if you want them fast and with support for lots of memory. Look at the number of contacts you get on a stick of RAM in a PC.
Lots of pins is acceptable in a product like this which is BGA surface mounted - but for things like Arduino where the pins are 0.1" apart for easy manual working, having the memory and flash on-chip is much more practical :)
The thing is the interfaces between CPU, RAM and flash tend to use a lot of pins - especially if you want them fast and with support for lots of memory. Look at the number of contacts you get on a stick of RAM in a PC.
Lots of pins is acceptable in a product like this which is BGA surface mounted - but for things like Arduino where the pins are 0.1" apart for easy manual working, having the memory and flash on-chip is much more practical :)
I'm talking about integrating two pieces of silicon inside a single package.
Of course you can package silicon in different packages, and package them, and assemble them on a pcb.
Of course you can package silicon in different packages, and package them, and assemble them on a pcb.
Of course with that fantastic price you get: http://i.imgur.com/qBes7dk.jpg
And no, that's not a Blade Runner screencap. That's Beijing.
And no, that's not a Blade Runner screencap. That's Beijing.
Related to Beijing's air pollution.
Photos: Beijing Blanketed in Smog: http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2009/11/photos-beijing-blankete...
Smog dents Beijing’s expat appeal: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/b29afeae-9dc9-11e2-bea1-00144...
Photos: Beijing Blanketed in Smog: http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2009/11/photos-beijing-blankete...
Smog dents Beijing’s expat appeal: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/b29afeae-9dc9-11e2-bea1-00144...
For people who just want to see the pictures on imgur instead: http://imgur.com/a/CnXGL
Just came back from Beijing, where the pollution rate was down to 33 at least for couple hours last week.
This phone is presented as an example if the Shenzhen ecosystem. While the pollution there is bad, it's not Beijing bad.
"And no, that's not a Blade Runner screencap. That's Beijing."
Same difference, as the kids used to say. The "gonkai" described in the article is essentially the proto-Blade Runner universe, so life is imitating fiction. It is fascinating that the filmmakers were so prescient.
Same difference, as the kids used to say. The "gonkai" described in the article is essentially the proto-Blade Runner universe, so life is imitating fiction. It is fascinating that the filmmakers were so prescient.
It can be done cheaper, too, and will be, since there is a large user population in Africa/India/etc whose only problem with a $12 phone is that it costs $12 too much. Eventually they'll be cheap enough to put in cereal boxes. (That won't happen, because brightly colored bits of plastic have higher perceived value than crippled phones among people who buy cereal, but they'll still be lifechanging devices in much of the world.)
India/Africa spend a huge amount of money on phones. $12 is absolutely no problem. It is less than what they pay now.
But isn't texting the favored use? Actually making a call is often impractical with spotty cell coverage.
In the Philippines apparently most folks text. Signal is occasional; text messages eventually get through automatically as you travel around during the day while a call is only possible at those brief times of connectivity.
Anyway, can this $12 phone text?
In the Philippines apparently most folks text. Signal is occasional; text messages eventually get through automatically as you travel around during the day while a call is only possible at those brief times of connectivity.
Anyway, can this $12 phone text?
SMS is a pretty basic part of the GSM standard so, if it didn't support it (assuming it's a GSM phone, of course)
But I don't see a keyboard; I doubt its a touch-screen. So no way to enter texts?
Uh do you not see the letters on the number keys there. Did you ever own a phone before smart phones?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T9_(predictive_text) maybe?
Doubt they have the liecence, but it's a very fast way of typing. With an old Nokia 8250 - I can type pretty fast with the phone in my pocket - muscle memory for the win!
Doubt they have the liecence, but it's a very fast way of typing. With an old Nokia 8250 - I can type pretty fast with the phone in my pocket - muscle memory for the win!
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The world is a big place, and while it includes people who spend quite a bit of money on phones, it also includes another billion or so people who don't have one yet, chiefly for economic reasons.
I think this is not going to have the huge impact you might imagine. Less than a billion people in the world remain without access to a cellphone now[0], and the ones that remain will probaby not have their lives transformed by a x$ cellphone. My guess would be that they either don't want/need one (too young, too old, religous reasons) or are in such utter destitution that a cellphone is unlikely to adress the underlying causes of their poverty, eg acute famine, civil war, etc.
[0]http://www.itu.int/en/ITU-D/Statistics/Documents/facts/ICTFa...
[0]http://www.itu.int/en/ITU-D/Statistics/Documents/facts/ICTFa...
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In many ways the Shanzai / Gongkai way has is a pre-cursor to the world we'll get as more patent intensive countries get past their expiration dates of those patents. And while I'm not convinced there will be a singularity, I am certain that we'll reach a point where enough stuff will be 'free to use' that the number of choices will grow large and the prices will be as commoditized as possible. An important thing to plan for is a recyclable version of the phone such that you can dispose of it safely and the materials can be recovered. Without that we'll just burn through a variety of rare earth elements by mining them, buying/using them, and then returning them to the earth somewhere else :-).
It is amazing that we can produce phones and sell them, profitably, at around $10.
Chinese manufacturers can do cheap. Now they just need to do "quality" (which will raise prices a bit) and "innovative". Once they get that cracked they'll take over the world.
From my ignorant uninformed perspective there are some weird cultural things going on. Why does China shovel out very very cheap goods? There are a small number of Chinese companies making quality products for the west, but not many.
There was a photo-article submitted to HN a few days ago. (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5697968) (http://m.theatlantic.com/infocus/2013/05/chinese-diy-inventi...)
It's surprising the number of people making potentially dangerous things by themself out of bits and pieces in their backyard. And seemingly re-inventing a bunch of stuff while they do it. Many of these are the kind of things that would be done by universities (if they didn't care about health and safety).
Chinese manufacturers can do cheap. Now they just need to do "quality" (which will raise prices a bit) and "innovative". Once they get that cracked they'll take over the world.
From my ignorant uninformed perspective there are some weird cultural things going on. Why does China shovel out very very cheap goods? There are a small number of Chinese companies making quality products for the west, but not many.
There was a photo-article submitted to HN a few days ago. (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5697968) (http://m.theatlantic.com/infocus/2013/05/chinese-diy-inventi...)
It's surprising the number of people making potentially dangerous things by themself out of bits and pieces in their backyard. And seemingly re-inventing a bunch of stuff while they do it. Many of these are the kind of things that would be done by universities (if they didn't care about health and safety).
That isn't entirely true. There are large Chinese firms with intense R&D, and many 'Western' companies do high added value work in China. There is a political narrative that we are being asked to believe that is not entirely true.
That said, a lot of manufacturing firms there compete on price. Three big factors in manufacturing quality are - how good is your factory equipment, how much human (error) is involved, and how much of your product are you willing to throw away.
In the 1980s/90s, not only manufacturing jobs, but also equipment headed east. Those same 30 year old production lines are still in use at the lower levels of Chinese manufacturing, being used for processes they really were not designed for.
Because of the low cost of labour there is a lower force towards automation. I've seen cell phone production lines that are pretty much by hand in CN, and simple boards assembled by huge machines without human interaction in the west. Hell, I've seen items being hand painted that could have been spray painted because spray paint was too expensive. Humans make mistakes.
The biggest factor though is yield. On TFT screens, something like 80% were thrown away at one stage. Throwing away only the worst 10% greatly reduces your price, but also means you are shipping much more variable stuff.
Basically, if you want cheap stuff, you get bad stuff. It's not that China can't make high quality goods, it's that people want cheap goods.
That said, a lot of manufacturing firms there compete on price. Three big factors in manufacturing quality are - how good is your factory equipment, how much human (error) is involved, and how much of your product are you willing to throw away.
In the 1980s/90s, not only manufacturing jobs, but also equipment headed east. Those same 30 year old production lines are still in use at the lower levels of Chinese manufacturing, being used for processes they really were not designed for.
Because of the low cost of labour there is a lower force towards automation. I've seen cell phone production lines that are pretty much by hand in CN, and simple boards assembled by huge machines without human interaction in the west. Hell, I've seen items being hand painted that could have been spray painted because spray paint was too expensive. Humans make mistakes.
The biggest factor though is yield. On TFT screens, something like 80% were thrown away at one stage. Throwing away only the worst 10% greatly reduces your price, but also means you are shipping much more variable stuff.
Basically, if you want cheap stuff, you get bad stuff. It's not that China can't make high quality goods, it's that people want cheap goods.
Check out AliExpress. The higher end Chinese phones and tablets are starting to get into iPhone / iPad price range (look at Huawei and XIAOMI phones, for example). You can do cheap, and reasonable, or you can get a huge range of very advanced products that are starting to look very attractive in terms of design and build quality too.
In between there's a large mid range where quality is rapidly improving but the prices stay low.
I got a Star B92M phone, for example. It's a cheap Galaxy S3 clone (same exact dimensions; comes with the same dandelion screensaver; some distributors offers it with a fake Samsung logo....). It's slower. It feels cheaper (the plastic back, for example is a noticeable weakness, and the GPS is a known problem - needs longer antennae). But it's got 1GB RAM, can take 64GB sd card, same 1280x720 resolution, higher resolution (12MP) main camera, dual sims, and generally acts and feels like a relatively high end phone with some minor caveats (try to run 3d stuff, and it's about the same performance as the much older HTC Desire HD, for example, though the Desire HD was much higher end when it was released and the Star trounces it overall performance). I'll stick to that cost range phone because it pays for itself vis-a-vis contract costs for a top end phone in ~6-8 months, and I'm good at breaking stuff...
Now the bar has been raised substantially higher, and there are 1800+ listings for phones with 1920x1080 resolution (in the 5" size range; lots of duplicates of the same models from multiple sellers, though), many of them quad core MTK based phones with 2GB RAM that are now at the very least up around the top of the mid-range segment if not outright challenging the most powerful high end phones yet.
In terms of innovation, you'll start seeing more of it once more of their manufacturers are pushing up against the ceiling set by the current pack leaders like Samsung and Apple. For now they are still busy playing catch-up in most respects.
To some extent we are also seeing different priorities that hides some of the features that these manufacturers put effort into. E.g. dual-sims seems to be pretty much a requirement for mid-range phones and above from the Chinese manufacturers, while you see it relatively rarely in models that are features heavily in the West. You even see 3 and 4 sim phones. A lot of these features may simply not make it to the West to any great extent because they're not what consumers here care about (but I'm in love with having dual sims - being able to slot in a second sim with cheap data etc. when travelling abroad while still being able to take calls on my standard number is great).
In between there's a large mid range where quality is rapidly improving but the prices stay low.
I got a Star B92M phone, for example. It's a cheap Galaxy S3 clone (same exact dimensions; comes with the same dandelion screensaver; some distributors offers it with a fake Samsung logo....). It's slower. It feels cheaper (the plastic back, for example is a noticeable weakness, and the GPS is a known problem - needs longer antennae). But it's got 1GB RAM, can take 64GB sd card, same 1280x720 resolution, higher resolution (12MP) main camera, dual sims, and generally acts and feels like a relatively high end phone with some minor caveats (try to run 3d stuff, and it's about the same performance as the much older HTC Desire HD, for example, though the Desire HD was much higher end when it was released and the Star trounces it overall performance). I'll stick to that cost range phone because it pays for itself vis-a-vis contract costs for a top end phone in ~6-8 months, and I'm good at breaking stuff...
Now the bar has been raised substantially higher, and there are 1800+ listings for phones with 1920x1080 resolution (in the 5" size range; lots of duplicates of the same models from multiple sellers, though), many of them quad core MTK based phones with 2GB RAM that are now at the very least up around the top of the mid-range segment if not outright challenging the most powerful high end phones yet.
In terms of innovation, you'll start seeing more of it once more of their manufacturers are pushing up against the ceiling set by the current pack leaders like Samsung and Apple. For now they are still busy playing catch-up in most respects.
To some extent we are also seeing different priorities that hides some of the features that these manufacturers put effort into. E.g. dual-sims seems to be pretty much a requirement for mid-range phones and above from the Chinese manufacturers, while you see it relatively rarely in models that are features heavily in the West. You even see 3 and 4 sim phones. A lot of these features may simply not make it to the West to any great extent because they're not what consumers here care about (but I'm in love with having dual sims - being able to slot in a second sim with cheap data etc. when travelling abroad while still being able to take calls on my standard number is great).
I see a lot of reviews lambasting the software on these phones for being incredibly finicky. Are there models with stock android that just work? If so, why isn't some enterprising company importing them, providing QA and customer support and making a killing?
Only problems with my phone was Chinese "spammy" messages, which required disabling a specific app, but disabling all the apps I didn't want was trivial enough. It has "near" stock Android. There are a few minor things such as custom apps to check for system updates from the manufacturer, and some stuff that I'm not sure whether is stock or an extension for handling multiple sims (don't know as I've never had another phone with multiple sim slots).
Other than that, the GPS is pretty much useless but not for lack of trying - there's extra stuff there to facilitate AGPS etc. it seems, but the antenna is simply physically too short (there's lots of breakdowns on how to attach a longer antenna to fix it, but I've not bothered so far - I don't use GPS much).
Lots of companies are importing many of these devices. Amazon is full of them. They're also full of offers from distributors and manufacturers in China that offers a quite decent service. I'm in the UK, ordered mine via Amazon mostly for increased peace of mind vs. ordering direct, and had the phone in ca 10 days.
I've also ordered several cheap no-name Chinese tablets via UK distributors.
You'll probably see more and more of these appearing, especially as all of these manufacturers offers to put your own brand name on the devices often even in very small volumes (if you want a Samsung logotype or other known brand, you can probably get it at no extra cost from most of them when ordering even single units...)
Other than that, the GPS is pretty much useless but not for lack of trying - there's extra stuff there to facilitate AGPS etc. it seems, but the antenna is simply physically too short (there's lots of breakdowns on how to attach a longer antenna to fix it, but I've not bothered so far - I don't use GPS much).
Lots of companies are importing many of these devices. Amazon is full of them. They're also full of offers from distributors and manufacturers in China that offers a quite decent service. I'm in the UK, ordered mine via Amazon mostly for increased peace of mind vs. ordering direct, and had the phone in ca 10 days.
I've also ordered several cheap no-name Chinese tablets via UK distributors.
You'll probably see more and more of these appearing, especially as all of these manufacturers offers to put your own brand name on the devices often even in very small volumes (if you want a Samsung logotype or other known brand, you can probably get it at no extra cost from most of them when ordering even single units...)
I'm writing from such a phone. It has stock Android 4.0 and just works, usually enduring 3 days without recharging.
Which phone do you have?
A Star 8000 aka MTK6575. Not top of the line, but I got it quite cheaply so I don't complain.
interesting, I see they run about $160, but I think the LG L9 is a better deal for $30 more considering the support you get.
The phrases "phone", "stock Android", and "just work" are mutually and orthogonally exclusive.
Stock android phones don't work. Stock android things that just work aren't phones. Phones that just work are not Android
{Okay, that last one is probably not totally true. =) }
Stock android phones don't work. Stock android things that just work aren't phones. Phones that just work are not Android
{Okay, that last one is probably not totally true. =) }
Quality? Precision machine tools wise, something I know a lot about, the quality has been there for at least 5 years. Superb equipment, half the western price. Not seen much wrong with electronics goods either.
Maybe you mean "style"?
Even so, they are taking over the world.
Maybe you mean "style"?
Even so, they are taking over the world.
Just a note on the comparison with the arduino: the main selling point of the arduino isn't the features/price ratio, but rather that it's open source hardware. I'm not very deeply involved with the matter, but I think that if you want just "any" programmable micro controller, you can get far more bang for the buck.
I have a spare mobile that I bought from a popular British retailer, Carphone Warehouse, for 99p. That was a special offer, but it's still on sale for £4.99. There's no contract attached to it, and you can swap out the SIM card for any one you wish.
It's a Samsung, doesn't do anything fancy, but it calls and texts without a problem, the battery lasts for weeks, and the signal is rock-solid. It's an ideal spare phone. I keep it in the car for emergencies, and take it out to charge it once a week or so. It's so simple that I actually prefer using it to a smartphone!
It's a Samsung, doesn't do anything fancy, but it calls and texts without a problem, the battery lasts for weeks, and the signal is rock-solid. It's an ideal spare phone. I keep it in the car for emergencies, and take it out to charge it once a week or so. It's so simple that I actually prefer using it to a smartphone!
They're still subsidised, so it's not the same thing.
The networks speculate in a certain amount of the sims getting into active use and more than covering the few users that buy them to swap sims.
The networks speculate in a certain amount of the sims getting into active use and more than covering the few users that buy them to swap sims.
Amazon sell as Motorola unlocked for $7.99
http://www.amazon.com/Motorola-C139-Prepaid-Phone-Tracfone/d...
http://www.amazon.com/Motorola-C139-Prepaid-Phone-Tracfone/d...
I hope you’re not suggesting that that phone cost less than $8 to make. Products get sold at a loss, all the time. Often, prices are lowered because the product just didn’t work out (like the HP Touchpad) or it’s replaced by a newer model. Other times, it’s part of the strategy (like the Kindle Fire or Gilette safety razors).
It's not sold by Amazon but instead by "Recellulartoo", who advertise themselves as "Recellulartoo is the preeminent seller of used and refurbished cellular phones.". So it might not even be a new unit.
TracFone (prepaid cellular service in the USA, owned by America Movil) is pretty much all refurbed phones.
Technically you can buy a phone even cheaper (trade for a bottle of beer, ebay, etc). The point is different. If you can find the schematics on the Internet you can potentially build it yourself.
I don't see any mention of that phone being unlocked...
Its the cheapest phone in the "Unlocked Phones" category and doesn't have a network.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_st?bbn=2407749011&qid=136...
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_st?bbn=2407749011&qid=136...
what type of network does tracfone use? gsm? cdma?
Its an unlocked GSM handset - so you just need a sim card.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_C139
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_C139
Quoting rom there, to TL;DR'ers:
"Don't just read about the phone itself. Read to/at the end, where Bunnie describes the environment where this phone and things like it are coming to be"
"Don't just read about the phone itself. Read to/at the end, where Bunnie describes the environment where this phone and things like it are coming to be"
I wish he had gone into more detail regarding how "gongkai" functions, aside from ignoring IP restrictions.
For anyone interested, it looks like this is the same phone http://dx.com/p/mini-i8-super-slim-gsm-card-phone-w-1-0-scre... . Although, for ~$30, one can get phones that are much more capable http://dx.com/c/cell-phone-599/cell-phones-511/feature-phone...
30 USD w/ free shipping on Deal Extreme
http://dx.com/s/super%2bslim%2bgsm.html?category=531
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25 USD w/ free shipping at FocalPrice :) http://www.focalprice.com/MH0408W/14_Children_Card_Bar_Phone...
23 USD at DX and looks better too.
http://dx.com/p/aole-100mini-gsm-bar-phone-w-1-8-lcd-screen-...
A new system of IP growing organically is an interesting thing to watch. The western system is so old now that it suffers from a bit of "windows syndrome". The undocumented exploits are as important to it's hackers (trollish actors?) and users as its intended features.
A brand new one growing organically in the digital age could be a fearsome beast if it moves beyond the "knockoff factory for western goods" phase.
A brand new one growing organically in the digital age could be a fearsome beast if it moves beyond the "knockoff factory for western goods" phase.
I wish there were a phone design which let you re-use the screen/etc. but swap out all the baseband with a new module; i.e. equivalent to a "burner" for security, but with the functionality of a smartphone, or at least a nicely built regular phone.
Many tablets can afaik host 3G USB modems. I'm not sure if they can do voice with that setup though. But otherwise it's pretty close to what you are describing.
Smartphone, tablet, and laptop screens have common ribbon connectors with known pinouts. The hard part is desoldering the screen and finding its pinouts.
Speaking from experience, quite a few of the common Chinese tablet and phone models can be disassembled with practically no tools, and you can often detach the touch panel and screen entirely by hand or at most by desoldering the power cable (for the screen - not seen any soldering needed for the touch panel, as it's a common repair). Often the tablet batteries can be detached easily, as well though they're usually entirely internal, and the board can often be lifted out with no tools as well. They're really surprisingly serviceable.
Several of the boards of the devices I've had are exactly the same layout across multiple brands and with easily identifiable connection points for additional connectors etc.
The main limiting factor for doing this is that the touch panel is often the first to go (scratches, getting chipped or smashed totally - I've ruined 3 touch panels so far...), and many of the devices are so cheap they're not worth the hassle to repair vs. upgrading to a newer, better model cheaply.
E.g. my five month old Chinese phone has 1280x720 screen resolution. Similarly priced phones now tend to be a bit larger (5" vs. 4.7") and come with 1920x1080 screens. I cracked my touch panel recently (by sending the phone flying halfway across the room so I really can't fault the phone - other than a few cracks it's still working fine) and opted to order a new one for ca $40 this time, but had the screen gone too I probably would've shelled out a bit extra and just replaced the phone instead.
Several of the boards of the devices I've had are exactly the same layout across multiple brands and with easily identifiable connection points for additional connectors etc.
The main limiting factor for doing this is that the touch panel is often the first to go (scratches, getting chipped or smashed totally - I've ruined 3 touch panels so far...), and many of the devices are so cheap they're not worth the hassle to repair vs. upgrading to a newer, better model cheaply.
E.g. my five month old Chinese phone has 1280x720 screen resolution. Similarly priced phones now tend to be a bit larger (5" vs. 4.7") and come with 1920x1080 screens. I cracked my touch panel recently (by sending the phone flying halfway across the room so I really can't fault the phone - other than a few cracks it's still working fine) and opted to order a new one for ca $40 this time, but had the screen gone too I probably would've shelled out a bit extra and just replaced the phone instead.
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14.65$ phone: http://mobiles.sulekha.com/nokia_1200_mobile.htm
If I give you my iPhone, does that make it a $0 phone?
http://www.thehindu.com/business/Industry/nokia-launches-its...
Nokia 105 will cost 15 euros. That's three pints of beer in a pub over here.
Nokia 105 will cost 15 euros. That's three pints of beer in a pub over here.
MOTO FONE[1] > Nokia 105
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Fone
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Fone
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Beware, the first link seems to have been 'click jacked'. It opened a new tab with domain "fxxksheep".replace('xx', 'uc') which my company proxy classified as porn.
Are you sure of that, or were you just on fucksheep because of this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5703758 ?
Apologies, I seem to be suffering from a VERY short attention span. False alarm.
The chip(MT6250) is a processor for feature phones which includes 260 mhz arm7 cpu,8Mbyte of ram , dsp,bluetooth,2.5G and All kinds of IO. It can run games on a touchscreen phone.
And it costs $2 in large volumes. This is much less than many microcontrollers who offer much less capability. And with such performance and memory , it can support much better languages and tools, faster time to market, and more complex systems, for cheap.
Also , this chip uses 2 different silicon pieces(one for processor and one for ram), for very low cost, instead of what we do today: build different stuff on the same silicon piece and compromise performance and cost and development time along the way. This could open the way to a lot of innovation.